₦airaland Forum

OmoLisabi:
Lai Lai means "never never"

Thanks.

Eko Ile:
https://i53.tinypic.com/15fsk6w.jpg

What does the caption above “Not under my watch. . .” mean in English?  I read the English translation of “Eko oni baje” in a publication a while ago, but I don’t know the meaning of “lai lai”.

Eko Ile:
@ Pifa. Lagosians used to call them "Bus Sapas", there HQ was in epetedo area of Lagos Island, far down freeman street by ilubinrin.

What about Benson Buses?

You guys know we used to have little things like functioning telephone booths and fire hydrants?


What about daily fresh milk deliveries in some shinny silver cylinder?


What about milk shakes for school kids


@ okooyinbo . Sure we don't want them back, but we lost a lot after their departure, everything functioned like clock work under their system.

Eko Ile,

Very interesting stuff. I am going to send some of these photographs to my brother and sister. Neither of them was born in Nigeria, so it's always a bit of a challenge to get them excited about anything that "smells" Nigeria.

Yes, I do remember the milk deliveries. I remember a certain honk from the milkman as he drove down our driveway. We lived in Ikoyi, on a street named Cooper Rd. I remember the sound of the gravel driveway as he pulled up waiting for my mom to come out and take delivery. My dad, who was an architect, used to work for an organization called LEDB or LSDB. The house we lived in was provided to us by his employer. I remember years after my parents shipped us to America, my dad would tell me about the battles he had with his bosses and how they eventually eased him out. Fortunately, he hooked up with a company called Cappa (or some name like that) and they moved us into another house on Alexander just before the LSDB people had to kick us out.

In the 70s through late 80s I believe, there was a German terrorist organization known as the Baader Meinhof Gang that carried out similar terror attacks in Germany. I don't remember what happened to them, but you can google "Baader Meinhof ", if you want to find out more about them.

Eko Ile:
Downtown Lagos. 1963.



https://i53.tinypic.com/291jaj7.jpg

I remember the red and silver buses, now that you posted this photograph. I think they were British Leyland brand. I would often ask and my mother would read things I couldn't read to me whenever we went out. I remember they had a badge that had “GUY” on it. The "GUY" image just lit up in my head when I saw the photo. Was it an image that looked like a warrior's head or am I mistaken? I don't think I ever rode one of those buses because we hardly traveled outside the Island and I was too young to venture out on my own.


Where did you guys find all these photographs?

proudly9ja:
"OUR ENEMIES ARE THE POLITICAL PROFITEERS,THE SWINDLERS,THE MEN IN HIGH AND LOW PLACES THAT SEEK BRIBES AND DEMAND 10 PERCENT;THOSE THAT SEEK TO KEEP THE COUNTRY DIVIDED PERMANENTLY SO THAT THEY CAN REMAIN IN OFFICE AS MINISTERS OR VIPS AT LEAST.THE TRIBALISTS,THE NEPOTISTS,THOSE THAT MAKE THE COUNTRY LOOK FOR NOTHING BEFORE INTERNATIONAL CIRCLES,THOSE THAT HAVE CORRUPTED OUR SOCIETY AND PUT THE NIGERIAN POLITICAL CALENDER BACK BY THEIR WORDS AND DEED".THIS ARE THE WORDS OF MAJOR PATRICK CHUKWUMA KADUNA NZEOGWU JAN. 15 1966.THE LEADER OF THE FIRST MILITARY COUP IN NIGERIA.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/487101_nzeogwu_jpgb805d280a592a5a65dfc4334b17e4e74

 
I remember seeing that photograph in newspapers when I was a kid. From the perspective of a kid less than 10 years old, I always thought the gentleman in the photograph looked really cool although “cool” was not in my vocabulary back then. I don't know why the photograph fascinated me as a kid. Perhaps it was the white scarf around his neck. Who is the soldier in the photograph? Is he the major in the statement you quoted?

There is a great deal of truth (both academic and practical) in what Katsumoto is saying. A good case study is Nigeria’s inability to innovate an automobile that is suitably adapted to the African climate and affordable to the African economic profile. So, India’s Tata Industries has seized the opportunity and will soon start to export its $3000-$5000 Nano automobiles to Africa. This area of adapting technology to suit the landscape is what Nigeria could have pursued and dominated within the African continent, if the whole country had not been drunk on sweet crude.

@ ekt_bear

I don’t think Katsumoto is referring to technological innovation only when he said “innovation”. By thinking innovatively for example, China has effectively changed its course in history and now on the cusp of world “powerdon”. And they’ve been able to achieve this with a unifying and innovative socio-political thinking. Their socio-political thinking itself is an innovation that allows capitalism to thrive within a communist society.

BTW, are you eku_bear, the poster who lives in California?

Ibime:
@ Pifa,

You can read here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/1579643/

Some start as low as 15k so that documentary (Michael Moore, hehehe) was telling the truth, although obviously, pay can rise to close to $100k over the years.

@ Topic/Ajanlekoko,

First of all, Michael Moore is a m.o.ron who finds the worst of a situation so that that he can portray it sensationally. I don't want to indignant, but I don't take seriously anybody who cites Michael Moore as an authority on socio-economic matters.

The pay of airline pilots follow the capitalist model in any capitalist society: You are worth as much as anyone is willing to pay you. If your skill is in high demand, you make a lot of money. If not, you have to make employers want you and be ready to earn your “chops” in order to climb the economic ladder. You can find instances of university graduates in any country who are just getting by economically because they posses skills that are not very useful to employers. The airline industry has a finite number of pilots it can absorb and pilots who have little piloting skills will find it harder to break into the piloting workforce than those who are skillful, experienced and employable. Michael Moore, off course, will never illuminate that situation. He is a socialist, just as the rest of the Hollywood dilettantes, and his slanted views often reflect that.

Ibime:
Airline pilots in Yankee do earn a pittance. I watched one documentary where this pilot was getting something like $20,000 pa and supplementing her income by working at Walmarts.

There is no perfect ideology, whether Capitalism or Socialism. Most perfect societies run a mixed economy.

It's not true that airline pilots in the US make less than $20K/yr. The pilot shown in your documentary most likely had a Single-Engine qualification and nothing more. That's no better than hobby piloting.

redsun:
Is it true that american airline pilots earn less than twenty five thousand dollars per annum,less than what bus drivers make in England?With thousands of lives in their hands,some present day american commercial pilots supports their salaries with food stamps.How can that be?

What is going on with capitalism?Who really benefits from capitalism?

Airline pilots in the United States make a decent salary. I don't know the average or median income for airline pilots these days, but an experienced pilot who regularly flies a 747 on transoceanic routes, for example, can make well over $150, 000/yr in base salary. A pilot's pay, as you can image, depends on the pilot's experience, rank, type of aircraft flown, route he or she flies, and the carrier. A full-fledged Captain, for example, will command a higher pay than the first officer, who is second in command of an airliner to the pilot. However, for a pilot fresh out of flight school who is trying to earn flight hours for experience and to advance his skills, the pay can be as low as $40,000/year (even lower, if you can't find full-time work). Generally, if you have multi-engine, Instrument Landing, jet and commercial aircraft qualifications, you should expect to earn in the six figures. There are senior pilots who earn $180K to over $200K per year.

Long ago, one of my neighbors in a housing complex we used to live flew the San Jose, CA to Reno, Nevada route for an airline called Reno Air (Reno Air has long been acquired by American Airlines). He used to tell me stories about the airline business, compensations, and extracurricular activities airline pilots engage in with the crew on overnight stays away from their home base. I remember that he was quite wealthy since he kept a real estate business on the side when he was not on duty. We lost contact with him when number two came along and we had to move to a larger house. The $150K figure I gave was from one of my conversations with him.

Kobojunkie:
OK! I never said anything about california being just the bay area. All I did was mention that the same state practices use of reservoirs for storage of water  as well . .  even as the bay is where about 40% of the drains go. 

The areas that use the storage systems you mentioned are generally deep in the rural and farm country. The urban coastal areas that stretch from San Francisco to San Diego tend to use their proximity to the ocean to fullest advantage. That includes discharging storm runoff into the ocean.

Kobojunkie:
I am not sure what you are talking of but what exactly are you suggesting nature has already provided Lagos with? The State itself was built on a Lagoon . . . I think about 50%, if not more, of Lagos state was all lagoon in the beginning. So are you suggesting we let nature use it's Lagoon -- and Lagos seize to exist?

You mention San francisco bay and it buggles me that you missed out the main detail of the example there. . .  yes, about 45% of California DRAINS into the bay but California DOES NOT rely on the natural water way to do the DRAINING. The State actually has a real good drainage system in place( I believe it is even shored against earthquakes in most areas) that handles the moving of water out of the cities and towns, into the bay. That does not remove from the other reservoirs where the same state stores up water for the dry seasons. Here is a link for you. http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cdecapp/resapp/getResGraphsMain.action

I keep reading people talk of Lagos not having money for this and that, and I have to ask. How exactly did you all come to this conclusion? Did the spirit of Lagos tell you it has no money? Or are you operating under the assumption that other towns/cities around the world that have been able to build for themselves solid drainage systems to reduce cost of loss each year to these disasters had to have so much money at the time they decided they needed to build these things? Are you operating under the assumption that Japan was STINKING RICH when it decided it needed the elaborate tunnel system it had today?

I mean even the Romans borrowed money to build the aquifers and the aqueducts that famously provided their towns and cities with all the water needed. Why is the all time, over-used excuse (no support ever provided by the way) against aggressively tackling the basics in Lagos always "THERE IS NO MONEY"? LOL . The state just lost billions it invested into building and refurbishing roads, to another year of floods. Are you sure it is not more sensible at this point that it invest all it can get it's hands on to prevent further loss in this manner?

Kobojunkie,

California is NOT just the Bay Area and the Bay Area is NOT all of California. I've lived in the Bay Area for all but ten years of my life and I don't need to google anything to know what we do in my here. Much of the drain system in the Bay Area is controlled by the Francisco Bay Regional Water Quality Control District.

Kobojunkie:
There are so many places that water could go.  lol . . . .

There are reservoirs around the state that much of that water could be piped to. That water could be cleaned up for public use. . . etc

I don't know if this is done in other parts of the world, but I would imagine that storm drainage in Lagos will be so contaminated to make it unfit for human consumption. Many decades ago, before the California aqueduct system was operational, the Los Angeles Dept of Water Works used to get some of its water from the Los Angeles River, which contained storm runoff. They stopped that practice when tighter drinking water regulations started revealing traces of toxins in drinking water. There are still some areas in which such treated water is used: irrigation, landscaping and industrial uses that do not involve food, medicine or drinking water.

Kobojunkie:
NO! Like I told the other person, water does not have a brain . . . you can make it go where you want it to. That is why there are man-made lakes, dams and reservoirs to collect water for different purposes.

Water does not have to flow to a lagoon as you claim  . . . you can direct the water to floor into tanks if you want. It is water . . . it has no brain to tell the difference - it takes the shape of whatever container you put it into. This is nothing new . .  it is being done all over the world! I even saw a documentary on how some of the rich people of the world are in the bid to buy up land so they can store up as much of the world's water as they can since they believe it will soon be the next gold. 

Why would you want to spend billions creating artificial storage when nature has already provided you with one? I live in Silicon Valley. This area is wealthy and technically savvy enough to create all the underground storm storage system technology and money can afford. But much (not all) of our storm drainage goes into the San Francisco Bay. We have man-made aquifers in the state of California, but in the Bay Area, we’ve chosen the path nature has provided.

Lagos does not have the money to build pricey infrastructures such as the ones shown in the photographs. Lagos is not Tokyo or Shanghai or NYC.

Kobojunkie:
Let me help you here. He was clear in what he said . . . not sure why you feel the problem is with the existence or none of a thing as natural drainage.

Now, blocking a natural creek is NOT an issue as long as an alternate way is provided. It's done in more than half of locations around the world.  This is one main reasons for construction of dams, levies, man-made lakes etc. You see these in places and cities like Dubai, Chicago, Shanghai, NY, the netherlands etc. I would even be bold to state that about half of the structures in the world today, especially man-constructed, in one way or another obstruct the so called natural way. However, because alternate "ways" are put in place, flooding is averted in many of these places. This is a practice that has been in place since ancient times.

No one doubts that man-made drainage system is a big factor (and needed) in controlling flooding. But water in these structures must flow somewhere. That’s where the natural drainage comes in. You can build all the ducts and below-grade drainage system you want, but it still has to flow into a lagoon (as is the case of Lagos), an aquifer, or to the ocean, as it does in my area.

GAR3TH:
[color=#006600]

. . .

I already know that lagos state has a town planning master plan draw up by Dar Al-Handasah Consultants but IDK if lagosians flowing it. Most likely alot of houses will have to be demolished for the masterplan to work.

. . .

That’s quite true. The master plan not only addresses the drainage issue, but it addresses the byzantine labyrinth of streets and alleys that make up much of the road network in Lagos to open them up for fluid flow of traffic.

But how is Lagos going to pay for these pricey public-works projects?

this houses were built on natural water ways, thus blocking the flow of water

by demolishing them, u create this way again

for example

there is place in inner makoko where the road linking makoko to yaba was cut into half by water.

this shows that that is the natural way of the water

Kobojunkie:
Why do you folks like making stuff like this up? Do you have any real data to back these claims up?

Actually, Kobojunkie, he was not making up anything. He might not have put his thought in more technical language, but there is such thing as natural drainage. They are called lagoons, rivers, creeks and tributaries, aquifers, lakes and they are nature’s own way of channeling water from one area to another. When you block a narrow creek for example, you disturb the natural flow of water from source to destination. The diverted flow may end up forming a pond elsewhere such that in a heavy storm, the pond accumulates more water and turns into a small canal. This can exacerbate flooding in affected areas.

to my opinion it is another form of banking, where instead of charging interest, the people who take loans from this system share in the profits of the bank,” she said.

ndu_chucks:
Would someone be kind enough to explain what Ngozi means by the statement above? How can people who obtain loans from the bank share in the bank's profits? Why should a person obtain a no-interest loan, use the money for his own benefit and then turn arround and share in the bank's profit?

I heard her make the statement on TV. My question is, was madam on Ogogoro when she made that statement?

ndu_chucks,
 
The non-interest banking system is actually an amalgamation of two financial institution models: A Credit Union and a Venture Capital Firm.

A credit union differs from a conventional bank in that the customers are also the owners. A credit union accepts deposits only from its members and grants loans only to its members. Unlike the no-interest bank, however, a credit union charges interest on loans it makes to its members who, through a board of directors elected from their ranks, determine the interest rate the credit union charges its borrower members. By charging interest on loans, the credit union generates income to cover expenses and run its operation. If the income exceeds operating expense, it becomes dividends which are then distributed to members (depositors) as interest on deposits. So, in Okonjo-Iweala’s vernacular, “. . .the people who take loans from this system share in the profits of the bank. . .”

On the other hand, since the non-interest banks operate by that moniker, they resemble the Venture Capital model. A venture capitalist (VC) assesses a business model for viability and its potential to generate value for investors before investing in the business. When a VC funds a business venture, it becomes a minority or majority share holder in that business, and gets at least one seat on the board of directors.

If the business prospers, either by selling its outstanding shares on a financial exchange in return for cash, or by declaring dividends to its share holders of which the VC is one, the VC gets a return on its investment. If the business falters or fails to gain traction in its market, the VC may lose all its investment. A similar thing happens in the so-called non-interest banking. The tenets of are quite similar to the VC model. Although the non-interest bank does not charge the customer interest on the loan as a traditional bank will, it does expect to take a percentage of your earnings!

This is what the esteemed minister meant by “…it is another form of banking where, instead of charging interest, the people who take loans from this system share in the profits of the bank…”

Akhenaten:
A Lagos-Port Harcourt railway wold be better I must say.

However, you just have to worry about the militants that operate in Delta and Bayelsa state.

I assume Port Harcourt is in one of the oil-producing states. If so, such rail route as you suggested would be a valuable economic asset between Lagos and the oil producing areas. But your point about the militancy in the ND area is right on the mark.
     

To Akhenaten:
By the way, Akhenaten, thanks so much for posting the photographs of the early days of the Nigerian Republic. I just found them this evening and I really like the photos of Lagos. I don't have much recollection about the city, but I remember a few things about growing up there quite vividly.
 

Kobojunkie:
He won a contract to build a monorail line which I believe did not exist in Iraq before this time, and so could not have been destroyed during SHOCK AND AWE!http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5465440-146/story.csp

Thanks for the correction. I recall reading about him in this forum, but I didn't have good recollection of the details.

eku_bear:
A bit unfortunate that Nigerians cannot be involved in the construction work, and instead it is given to Chinese. Would be nice if we could be more competitive. . .

I recall reading about a Nigerian-born fella whose construction company in Canada won the contract to rebuild the Iraqi railroad system, much of which was destroyed by the US military during the “shock and awe” campaign (or, was it the “Aw, shucks!” campaign?). I believe he went to Nigeria to look for business but I don’t know the outcome of his trip.

spyder880:
@pifa the lawyer, can you define satire?

I assume babpupa was serious in his post. He hardly jokes about anything concerning Lagos State.

Legally, the tax levy may be treading on “dangerous” grounds because it is difficult to argue for state-sanctioned architectural vanity in court. I suspect that the tax penalty would not survive constitutional challenge. Who defines beauty and who defines what constitutes aesthetic blight? Should “unattractive” people be considered a public nuisance? Should we confine such folks to their homes so they would not “injure” our eyes, if they come out in public? It is one thing to legislate community standards on public nuisance such as street prostitution, public hygiene or panhandling, but legislation based on subjective view of beauty?

Suppose I tell you that I find some African art to be shockingly ugly because they over-exaggerate African features and tend to invoke images of horror. Should the state legislate against displaying them in public? Suppose the building owner had placed such a piece of art in front of his house. Would the state deem it not to its aesthetic standard?

I don’t know if newspapers in Nigeria have architectural critics on staff, but this is their domain: to critique buildings on their architectural significance, aesthetics, pedigree, functionality and latterly, “green” imprimatur. It should never be the place of the state to dictate to us what is beautiful.

This ordinance stinks.



Post script: If the knock against the building were related to safety (the elephant structure could break from its anchor and come crashing down on people’s heads), that might be a legitimate concern of the state.

[quote author=eku_bear link=topic=576642.msg7453220#msg7453220 date=1294060703][/quote]

I'm not sure I agree. First of all,  the terms are not "Lagos State must pay us $X over the next 30 years, regardless of how much less than that we take in from tolls." It is instead, "if Lagos State defaults on the terms of our agreement, then they must pay us $X."

If we agree on this, then it is not quite a riskless investment, is it? It is just to protect themselves and ensure a penalty of their partner (Lagos State) violates the agreement.
Or am I misunderstanding?

Yes, I think you are. The crux of the matter lies in the default clause. The concessionaire, I believe, is already deducting payments from the Nigerian government's fiscal allocation to Lagos when they were unable to collect toll (suspended by the state). And what chance is there that Lagos will default, if federal allocation continues to flow into the state's coffers? That is my understanding, unless someone with better information can contradict me. I do not see much risk the concessionaire is assuming here. Whoever negotiated the terms of the contract for the concessionaire deserves high praise. It was clever.

I would have no problem with the Lekki toll road, if it were operated strictly as a private enterprise that succeeded or failed on its merits. The SR91 we talked about failed when Caltrans had to widen the publicly-owned section where congestion was most devilish. Patronage declined and that led the Riverside County to take over the enterprise. A similar fate is being visited on the tolled section of SR125 in San Diego, popularly called the South Bay Expressway. South Bay Expressway was conceived as an alternate route to I-805 and I-5 (for those who are curious to know, the “I” stands for interstate, which is the interstate highway system developed by the US Department of Transportation), both of which merge just before the international border with Mexico. The business model was predicated on the increasing US-Mexico vehicular traffic brought about by the booming economy at the time. When the US recession was in full swing in 2008, patronage declined as traders and vacationers pulled back on trips across the border. The expressway, which was opened in Nov. 2007, filed for bankruptcy in May of 2010. That was risk and the failure that ensued when the risk materialized.

In my opinion it does. Doesn't adding a 3rd lane have a similar effect? And surfacing and maintaining the road? Why must an above-ground toll be the only way to create value, when adding additional lanes does the same thing?

So what if it turns out that the improvements they made will have the same overall effect in improving traffic as adding say an above-ground toll? Then will you still have this same impression?

I used the above-ground construction as an example, but I should have made that clear. The toll road could run parallel to, below grade or bypass the existing road. It doesn't matter. What matters in my argument is that the road be “isolated” from the public road. An example of a parallel route is the same SR91 in California I've mentioned a number of times in this discussion. The tolled freeway was built in the median between the east-bound and west-bound lanes of the existing public freeway. As you near the tolled section, you will see signages that alert you to the upcoming toll way so that you will have the option to branch into the approach to the toll plaza, or continue driving on the public road.

With regard to the Lekki expressway, I don't really see what value it creates in terms of easing traffic congestion. People who live in the Lekki corridor complain all the time about the traffic. The queue (at least for those who do not have the “fast track transponder) at the toll plazas might even add to the congestion they face. Add to that the multiple toll plazas (one for every 10km of travel, according to jacobs123) and you'll understand why I said the “new” road doesn't create much value for those who must use it. And mind you, the Lekki peninsula is slated for high growth, a development that will erase any value, if any, that the toll road creates.

I dunno, I'm dissatisfied with your argument to some extent, because it means that if a road has to be improved and expanded, and the state gov't doesn't have the funds to do it but they can find a private partner who is interested, then that private partner has very limited means to recover their investment. Fine, so maybe LCC should have built an above-ground toll. But what if that is an inferior overall solution to simply improving the existing road?

Sorta see what I'm saying?

Now let's address the issue you raised about the state's fiscal strength. First of all, Lagos already finances a lot of its infrastructure projects with state bonds. Lagos also seeded the concessionaire with startup money (someone please correct me, if I am wrong). The construction bonds, the seed money it provided the concessionaire, and money the state is spending on the alternate route could have allowed the state to do this on its own and then toll it for revenue. However, the section of the road that should be tolled will be the truly express lanes that were added to provide relief from congestion.

So, if the concessionaire wants to recoup its investment, let it toll only the lanes it added. That would be fair.

PS: Sorry for taking so long to respond. . .

No worries. I had to drive my daughter back to school today and then we all had to stay there for what seemed like two hours watching mom hug her, kiss her, rob her back, and stroke her hair while saying goodbye! Anyway, I have to prepare for work tomorrow, so I'll sign off on this thread for now.

ndu_chucks:
. . . I suspect that no one will file a lawsuit against Fashola, in this case, because if the details of the contract becomes public, and the "sweetheart deal" is exposed, quite a few people will be embarassed, to say the least.

Actually, ndu_chucks, there is litigation pending on this matter.

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/Metro/5635668-147/story.csp

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/Metro/5626546-147/story.csp

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/Metro/5637334-147/court_to_visit_lekki-epe_highway.csp

I “googled” the name of the presiding judge and found this:
http://www.thenigerianvoice.com/nvnews/41671//lawyer-wants-court-to-stop-toll-collection-on-lago.html
   
   
   
Officials have already talked about concessioning more roads in Lagos. I certainly hope they have learned from the Lekki episode and make sure the process is transparent and done the right way in the future.

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5618111-146/story.csp

eku_bear:
I've lived here for under 5 years. Unfortunately I do not know much about the history of toll roads in California. Or that much about SoCal, to be quite frank (I'm in NorCal).
But even if you think the work the LCC is doing is minor/trivial, it still costs a lot of money to do. Doesn't this suggest a right to be compensated in some way for such a large financial commitment?
. . .

With regard to California’s experiment with tolled freeways (notice I said freeways, not expressways), the demise of privately-funded freeways started around 2000 when a clause in the contractual agreement between Caltrans (California Department of Transportation) and the owners of the tolled section of SR91 in Riverside county was leaked to the public. The clause gave the owners of the tolled section the power to block Caltrans from making major improvements to the non-tolled section of SR91 (SR means State Route), which happened to be one of the most congested routes in California. The investors feared that competition from an improved government-owned section of the freeway would drive traffic away from the tolled section and deprive them of revenue. It was a legally problematic agreement that not only violated the American spirit of promoting completion, it bordered on what lawyers call “collusion”, and could possibly run head on into US anti-trust laws. The tolled portion of SR91 has since been taken over by a public agency after barely seven years of existence.

How does this relate to the Lekki toll road? Read the clause in the agreement posted by kalokalo: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-576642.96.html#msg7436825. It basically relives the investor of risk! All investments carry a certain amount of risk. When you remove that risk with guarantees of return regardless of how the investor executes, you create an environment for laxity.  I do not know Nigerian contract law. But in our contract law, this is known as a ”sweetheart deal” or a “one-sided contract” .  It is a legal concept recognized even in English Contract Law, which forms the basis of contract laws across the Commonwealth, of which Nigeria is a member. The "sweetheart deal" nature of the contract is one of the arguments objectors to the toll road are making.

Now, let’s go back to the map https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-576642.96.html#msg7437041 you kindly posted, and my contention that the toll road solves no traffic problem. If the toll ran above ground but parallel to the existing road, it would create value for the road user or what is known in contract law as “consideration”. The value, in this case, would be the option to bypass congestion in that corridor and ride above ground in free-flowing traffic. Would you say the Lekki toll road creates such value?

In every privately-financed toll road I know of, the construction was generally done as an adjunct to an existing government road. The Lagos state government got it backwards in their case: they are using taxpayers' money to construct an alternate route after giving taxpayers' road to a private enterprise to develop and toll for 30 years. Why not use the money they are spending on the alternate route to develop the Lekki road in the first place, and then toll it directly for the government? I can never be against allowing the investors to profit on their investment, but I get the impression that tolling the Lekki road was a back-room deal designed to steer business to the concessionaire.


Diversion for eku_bear only:

By the way, I like the way you argue. . . like a true Californian gentlemen

I'll ignore the banter about Grey Davis and Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's too complex an issue to hash out in the short I have left in this forum tonight (it's dinner time and the kids are beginning to troupe in and I can hear the sound of "Dad, what's for dinner?".

But babapupa, who has suggested that Fashola be thrown out? The government certainly should be called to task by Lagosians for agreeing to a contract like that with the concessionaire.

You tend to take every criticism of Fashola rather personally. Why?

(and goodnight)
   

babapupa:
So you kicked out Grey Davis and replaced him with Arnold, the question now is, how great is Arnold with California almost bankrupt and one of the highest employment rate in America? Arnold did way way worse than Grey Davis, so why is he still in office?  Please kill that noise.


Talking about Lagos state, sounds like you are asserting that the Fashola/ACN should be kicked out because some people don't want to pay toll fees.

Go ahead and replace Fashola/ACN with PDP. Like Arnold himself once said, make my day,

eku_bear:
@Pifa: I'm not sure that the California model is the one to copy, at least as far as government goes. The state is politically unstable and fiscally unsound. I'm not much interested in staying here after I finish school.

eku_bear,

I asked earlier how long you’ve been in California because I saw California in your location. If you’ve been in California for long, you would know that the toll roads in California were all proposed to solve a problem: either to ease congestion or to shorten a trip. A good example is SR73 (it bypasses the congestion around I-405 and I-5 in Irvine, and lands you south of San Juan Capistrano on I-5 going toward San Diego).

But from the map you posted, I see no problem that the toll way is solving. It doesn’t seem to bypass any area or shorten the distance between the extreme points on the map. If the areas where toll is collected had been a devilishly congested area, and the toll road took the path of the alternate route to bypass it, then I could see the benefit the toll road would bring to the community. But in this case, it seems the tolling was designed simply to remunerate the concessionaire for resurfacing and upgrading a stretch of the expressway.
 
 
   
Diversion for eku_bear only

You’re very fortunate to have come to California for schooling. California has the highest collection of best universities the world has to offer. I am a Stanford grad and I also did my post-grad there. My wife is a graduate of Stanford Law and our oldest became a freshman at Stanford this fall. I wouldn't trade California for any other state in the union. I’ve been here since I was ten (quite over three decades, actually). My sister lives here, and so does my mother, who is British by birth.

I am sorry you feel the way you do about California. But what you call “political unstable” is what we call political activism and engagement. As for our fiscal problems, you have to consider that California is the 8th largest economy in the world with about $1.87 trillion GDP. So, a budget shortfall of about $26b in a near-$2-trillion economy has to be taken in context. The state has its problems, just like many other states in the union that are struggling financially in these difficult times.

At any rate, you have to promise me you’ll do one activity before you leave California: take a trip down the whole length of the Pacific Coast Highway (it’s more enjoyable, if you ride a motorcycle). PCH runs through the most scenic beaches, the most expensive real estate market and the most spectacular geography in the US.