So, since you said everything has a beginning, what's the beginning of the god you're claiming?

Judybash93:


The earth is the only planet we know that supports life. It's in the right position to support life due to the distance from it's nearest star. It's neither too close nor too far.. Moreover, there's liquid water and that also contributes immensely to life as we know.

That doesn't explain anything. That's just grasping at straws

hiddendude:
1. The universe couldn't have always existed as this is inconsistent to how we experience it. Cause and effect work with a forward computation of time from a possible point (a possible infinity).
There are two kinds of infinity (possible infinity and actual infinity). A possible infinity begins with a point in the past and continues infinitely into the future. An actual infinity exists infinitely in the past and continues infinitely into the future (e.g integers on a number line).

Like I pointed out your understanding of infinity is flawed. If the universe is infinite then there'd be no point in speaking about a beginning, we will not be able to identify it. This does not now translate to it is impossible for the universe to be infinite, that is a conclusion you really have no basis to arrive at.

2. If the universe were an actual infinity, then the present epoch would be logically impossible. How? Like I posited in the first argument, cause and effect work with a forward computation of time from a possible point. We understand this because we get to present times by successive additions. To understand this, think of the number line. The number 0 stands for the present epoch/point in time, negative numbers represent past epochs and positive numbers represent future epochs. Think of a hypothetical situation in which you have to traverse the number line from negative numbers to 0 (you do this by making successive additions e.g -3, -2 (-3+1), -1(-2+1), 0 (-1+1)). Such an addition is only possible if you have a starting point from which such additions can be made. If you traverse infinitely into the negative part of the number line (i.e numbers before 0 on the number line), you'll never make successive additions because it would be impossible to pick a starting point, hence you'll never get to 0.

Again you are making a flawed conclusion about infinity. A section of infinity can be understood just as we can understand 1-1,000 even though the series of integers is infinite. Therefore if our current epoch is a part of a series of infinite epochs then we are able to understand it within limits.

3. If the universe existed infinitely in the past, there can be no cause and effect because a forward computation of time would be impossible within the universe.

There is no reason why an infinite series of causes and effects can not be the case, you simply have no data upon which to draw a conclusion either way.

4. The universe must have a beginning for cause and effect to be possible.

This an indeterminate question especially with regards to infinity.

5. If the universe had a beginning, then itself is an effect of a greater cause. Whatever caused the universe must itself not be caused as this would lead to an infinite regress which we must reject because we know it is possible to make forward computations of time which would not be possible with an infinite regress as demonstrated using the number line. This thus leads us to infer that this cause is itself actually infinite.

Again there is no reason to speculate an uncaused cause and deny the same attribute to the universe.

6. This actually infinite cause transcends the universe because it precedes it.

This like a magic trick, there was no universe but a cause existed in this no universe state. How can that be? How can something exist before existence?

7. Thus God is the best possible explanation for this as the concept of God assumes actual infinity is a feature of God.

Another fantastic Olympic leap. How do you know this cause is not an idiot savant or some form of energy we have no concept of or even a being that expired after birthing the universe or any of the many concepts men have postulated over the ages?

I'm open to counterarguments with logic.

Looking forward to your response.

FYI: I am not arguing for an infinite universe, my point is you have no real basis to declare it one way or the other.

Arsenella007:

That doesn't explain anything. That's just grasping at straws

Ok