emapeteum:
Church growth is not just numbers.Does Oyedepo has the right to sack pastors who are willing to serve God?Is Oyedepo the owner of the Church or Christ?

Who employed him to be a pastor?

MT:


"A pastor without a sheep has lost his job already.."

Can I have a Bible reference for this? Why did you discount the fact that when a pastor preaches and God wins a soul through him, it is NOT compulsory for that soul to worship in that church?; He could go away and worship somewhere else.

While at that, point me to a reference in the bible where God commands us to be doing growth index by number of worshippers in church.

When we talk of politics, we talk of constitution, when we talk of God, we should talk about the bible, not your own assumption.

You will need to answer this question first. Who employs the pastor? God or Oyedepo? If it is God, God will pay him since only God can appreciate whatever he does. Only God knows how many souls he saved in heaven. If you are now saying it was oyedepo that employed.. where do you expect oyedepo to get money to pay him? Since this is purely God's work, I expect you to condemn the pastor that was sacked not the one that sacked him..He expects another man to pay him for doing God's work. Does that makes any sense to you? Finally, you are asking me for a quotation about pastors in the Bible....There were no pastors per see in the Bible. There were priests.....and they were paid from the tithes by members of the congregation not by salary from a senior pastor. Even in the New testament.....the members brought everything they had to the church so it was shared. Bottom line is that it is not possible to pay or feed a pastor according to the Bible without members. Now that the church is empty...why should the pastor be paid by a senior pastor? Show me a reference in the Bible where it was the senior pastor that was paying salary to the junior pastor heading empty churches? Oyedepo did not sack him from church ..he only sacked him from collecting salary and since we are all doing this for God and not money, the pastor shouldn't be complaining

triplechoice:

This is for those defending the decision of winners chapel in sacking its pastors

What is the actual source of the money used in paying employed pastors in winners chapel? How does the church make money to pay its pastors? Is the money coming from God directly?

Answer the above questions honestly to wake up from your sleep .

From tithes and offering ofcourse, nobody is disputing that. The more reason the Church can not afford to hold on to a toxic individuals as Pastors

phemmyfour:
Reno is over the bar

Bearing fruits isn't about Church/financial growth , it's not for Pastors. It's for BELIEVERS and centered on soul winning not bringing people into a building

Take your time to read the full post.

Besides, did you read the Winners Chapel letter? Money was not mentioned...

Lifestone:

Did you read his post? Juxtapose his conclusion, I am not here for vain arguments

Am not arguing. Am asking u simple questions which u can't. D questions are actually a follow up to d points u raised so it has nothing to do his post:

1. How is he prejudiced?

2. Can u negate d biblical angle he gave?

3. Should d content of d letter supersede biblical principles on d matter?

4. What is d church? Is it a denomination built by a man?

nyiamfrank:
Reno Omokri wrote on his Facebook page


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=310019004236878&id=111647580740689

Mumu talk

Lifestone:
Some lazy anti church elements never bothered to read the letter anyway, they ran to town screaming Church is a Business.
What's in a Pastor that could not bring in souls into the Kingdom of God? What was he hired to do?
Am not surprised where we are today as a nation when we could not hold people accountable for the assignments that they were given.
The attitude of the Pastor is the more reason he failed, an entitlement mentality and he was rightly sacked.

sheeple spotted

nyiamfrank:
Mr. Reno, can you link the fruitfulness of a tree to human attributes?
Is the pastor not bearing children?

Church growth? Financially or in population?

When some people left Jesus as he was preaching, did he drag them back? He even turned to the disciples and asked why they remained with him!

Winners must not mention money in that letter. Be fair, man.

Analogy was used all through the Bible. When Jesus asked Peter to feed His sheep's, was Jesus a Fulani herdman?

MidasO1:
sheeple spotted

Goatie spotted.

Wiseandtrue:
I wasn't going to comment on this topic until Oyedepo himself address this issue!

But Reno, got this all wrong!

You guys have become fishers of money and not fishers of men chai! God must be a patient God oooo!

Now if the growth you are talking about is the physical growth:

Did the apostles win souls for Christ when He was with them I mean they were always going about with Jesus

And if the monetary aspect, many of the disciples STOPPED working when they met Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ has been taking care of every of their needs! Go and read Matthew 4:18–22, Mark 3:16-20 and Luke 5:1–11 , John 1:35–51!

So if BISHOP Oyedepo is really like Christ and is doing the work of Jesus Christ why can't he take care of his pastors need Or is God Almighty not a great provider again

Is Oyedepo now God Stop making mockery of God's name all in the name of looking for money!
Modified:

Did you read at all

Did Oyedepo ordained these men without hearing from God

God cannot contradict Himself!

Who is Oyedepo to sack those who wish to serve God

Even when the apostles were trying to stop those worshipping God simply because they are not part of them

Jesus Christ said "leave them! If they are not against us, they are with us!

How do you sack a pastor who is not stealing, going diabolical As a pastor, was he not prayerful Is he found wanted as a leader at home

Common!

Writing in bold letter does not connotes sense at all and that's evident in your write up.


Go and read about the encounter of Jesus with the fig tree. If you're not bearing fruit then you're as good as not been there in the first place.

And you wrote that bearing fruit is not for pastors. Are you for real?

At least make findings before typing rubbish.

Lifestone:
Some lazy anti church elements never bothered to read the letter anyway, they ran to town screaming Church is a Business.
What's in a Pastor that could not bring in souls into the Kingdom of God? What was he hired to do?
Am not surprised where we are today as a nation when we could not hold people accountable for the assignments that they were given.
The attitude of the Pastor is the more reason he failed, an entitlement mentality and he was rightly sacked.

You actually expected them to write financial growth in letter? These guys are smart bro. They already envisage that stuffs like this will arise so any statement, letter or publication is well crafted before it's let out. What matters here is not the letter but the objectives spelt out to them upon engagement and reinforced during theIR periodic meetings. I'm a Christian myself but being privy to the leadership dealings in a number of churches I have worked with, I believe there is substance to this allegation.

Our number one problem is unemployment. Majority of the pastors we have today in Nigeria would not have smelt the pupilt if they were gainfully employed or having thriving businesses catering for their needs.

Kudos to as many as are truly called and allow God's light to shine through them to the world. It's quite unfortunate that some con men keep trying to bring the Christian faith to disrepute.

Most comments here in support of Reno and oyedepo are from members of money making chapel who are ready to take bullets for thier CEO

sniperr007:



Church growth can also be linked to how the pastor manages the church account, members and the church at large.


Maybe his actions were causing friction and affection the membership negatively.

Exactly what I was trying to say..
It can’t be all about money...

helpee:
You will need to answer this question first. Who employs the pastor? God or Oyedepo? If it is God, God will pay him since only God can appreciate whatever he does. Only God knows how many souls he saved in heaven. If you are now saying it was oyedepo that employed.. where do you expect oyedepo to get money to pay him? Since this is purely God's work, I expect you to condemn the pastor that was sacked not the one that sacked him..He expects another man to pay him for doing God's work. Does that makes any sense to you? Finally, you are asking me for a quotation about pastors in the Bible....There were no pastors per see in the Bible. There were priests.....and they were paid from the tithes by members of the congregation not by salary from a senior pastor. Even in the New testament.....the members brought everything they had to the church so it was shared. Bottom line is that it is not possible to pay or feed a pastor according to the Bible without members. Now that the church is empty...why should the pastor be paid by a senior pastor? Show me a reference in the Bible where it was the senior pastor that was paying salary to the junior pastor heading empty churches? Oyedepo did not sack him from church ..he only sacked him from collecting salary and since we are all doing this for God and not money, the pastor shouldn't be complaining

O boy see stupid argument to defend God of Men. I am sure you are ready to drink cool aid for Oyedepo's sake.

Ok, answer this. Why should it be the senior pastor that will take (kolobi) all the tithes and offering of all the branches? If the junior pastor is allowed to take the tithes and offerings of his branch, will he be asking for salaries from the senior pastor?

Does it then make sense for God to bless a particular branch with tithes and offerings and the junior pastor that God used to collect the blessings cannot be paid directly from that blessings.

Acidosis:
The media will always use people's minds and emotions the way they want. That's why I didn't bother to respond to that thread.

First, whoever believes that Winners Chapel will release such a letter and cite money reasons must be very very senseless in real life.

Second, the idea of dismissing a pastor out of service doesn't make sense. However, I do not expect an unproductive church to remain unproductive either. What are you doing as a Church if you don't attract new souls? Of course, more souls typically means more income for the church. So yeah, no one should be surprised when everyone focus on the money which they believe is the answer to all their life troubles.

If the church is not growing, what should the church management do? The right alternative should have been to change the leadership of the local church, not outrightly sack a pastor (unless there are genuine reasons to do so). He may thrive better in a new environment, or simply work together with other pastors in an established church. This is the norm everywhere.

When God called the pastor, did he calling him to winners?

He should go and prove his calling. It must not be in winners.

The aspects of money. Ask anyone that attends winner's they will nerve emphasis money.

Is the only church that don't put anyone under pressure to give.

If any church lack anything just apply once approved the money will be released.

Every winners church have monthly impress. It is sent at the beginning of every month.

All workers are under a central payroll. It is not the duty of the local assembly to raise funds in winner's.

It is a taboo for a local assembly to raise funds it is forbidden.

If the church wants to build church, school, land or any other project. It is not the responsibility of the local assembly no member of the church is under pressure to donate. The head quarters mobilize the contractor to site.

This church is just unique.

Winner's transfer pastor every 2 - 3 Years. It improves effectiveness. As for the pastor sack there is more to it

Odidigboigbo:
Who employed him to be a pastor?

Ok,Oyedepo church not Church Christ died for.You are correct

FODA:
may be the pastor failed in that aspect too sir ,there is no place in the letter where money is been mentioned ,but the man rush online to draw public attention ,if he is truly a pastor ,he will focus on his God given assignment not man given task ,most of them are only doing the job cos of the salary not because of soul .God will help us sir

If they were doing the job because of the salary as you have said above, then it means only one thing which I am sure you already know

Lifestone:
Some lazy anti church elements never bothered to read the letter anyway, they ran to town screaming Church is a Business.
What's in a Pastor that could not bring in souls into the Kingdom of God? What was he hired to do?
Am not surprised where we are today as a nation when we could not hold people accountable for the assignments that they were given.
The attitude of the Pastor is the more reason he failed, an entitlement mentality and he was rightly sacked.

Hired a pastor?

damosky12:


Take your time to read the full post.

Besides, did you read the Winners Chapel letter? Money was not mentioned...

And where is money in my post?

nyiamfrank:
Mr. Reno, can you link the fruitfulness of a tree to human attributes?
Is the pastor not bearing children?

Church growth? Financially or in population?

When some people left Jesus as he was preaching, did he drag them back? He even turned to the disciples and asked why they remained with him!

Winners must not mention money in that letter. Be fair, man.

The. Man don turn chemical reactor.

What critics seem not to get that these pastors were employed and paid salaries for that singular purpose, it's not a difficult task for them if God called them to work for Him in that church. There are a lot of scam where district pastors falsify WSF reports for them to remain relevance. So,these pastors understand scope of their work before taking up the jobs.

wirinet:


O boy see stupid argument to defend God of Men. I am sure you are ready to drink cool aid for Oyedepo's sake.

Ok, answer this. Why should it be the senior pastor that will take (kolobi) all the tithes and offering of all the branches? If the junior pastor is allowed to take the tithes and offerings of his branch, will he be asking for salaries from the senior pastor?

Does it then make sense for God to bless a particular branch with tithes and offerings and the junior pastor that God used to collect the blessings cannot be paid directly from that blessings.

So who is now making stupid argument? Does it make sense to use the tithe paid by members of a hardworking pastor whose fruits are obvious for all to see and then use it to pay a pastor that has empty seats? If other pastors can work to bring people to the fold, why can't this pastor do same? Lazy People all over. Oyedepo pays every pastor so what is the argument that they are not using the tithe to pay the pastors working? What you are now saying is that they should also pay lazy pastors and if you believe the pastor's work is in heaven then heaven will pay him. You can't blame the pastor for that

Lifestone:

So he does not need a church to do that. But you are paid to preach the gospel and win soul, find a way to show your fruits. It's called accountability

That statement in bold is Biblically out of line my good sir... If you are a true believer, I will advise you apply caution in your arguments and defense of the laity before you indulge in heresy.

You made a good point earlier in stating that the pastor was sacked for going against or falling short of the terms of agreement of his employment (Church growth). You should have stopped there, not trying too hard to further belabor the point.

The things pertaining to the Kingdom of God are Spiritual, and must never be adjudged carnally. Preaching the Gospel is the sworn and expected duty of all believers, for the sole purpose of increasing church growth. By church growth, not necessarily any specific denomination, but the universal church of Christ which has no denomination.

I will like to believe these pastors' failings cut across so many Spiritually sensitive areas, hence the rightful need for removal... There is definitely more to this.

You and Mr. Reno are taking this too far!

Godmademan:
You actually expected them to write financial growth in letter? These guys are smart bro. They already envisage that stuffs like this will arise so any statement, letter or publication is well crafted before it's let out. What matters here is not the letter but the objectives spelt out to them upon engagement and reinforced during theIR periodic meetings. I'm a Christian myself but being privy to the leadership dealings in a number of churches I have worked with, I believe there is substance to this allegation.

Our number one problem is unemployment. Majority of the pastors we have today in Nigeria would not have smelt the pupilt if they were gainfully employed or having thriving businesses catering for their needs.

Kudos to as many as are truly called and allow God's light to shine through them to the world. It's quite unfortunate that some con men keep trying to bring the Christian faith to disrepute.

If that guy is a true pastor, he won't drag the church to social media for ridicule. He knows his action won't bring back his job, but trying to embarrass the church which should ordinarily be his constituency. Where's Daddy Freeze today

pafra:


When God called the pastor, did he calling him to winners?

He should go and prove his calling. It must not be in winners.

The aspects of money. Ask anyone that attends winner's they will nerve emphasis money.

Is the only church that don't put anyone under pressure to give.

If any church lack anything just apply once approved the money will be released.

Every winners church have monthly impress. It is sent at the beginning of every month.

All workers are under a central payroll. It is not the duty of the local assembly to raise funds in winner's.

It is a taboo for a local assembly to raise funds it is forbidden.

If the church wants to build church, school, land or any other project. It is not the responsibility of the local assembly no member of the church is under pressure to donate. The head quarters mobilize the contractor to site.

This church is just unique.

Winner's transfer pastor every 2 - 3 Years. It improves effectiveness. As for the pastor sack there is more to it

You just rambled without mentioning the exact source of your Church revenue

How many persons will agree to work for the church without pay? But the truth is that is what the bible encourages. Jesus didn't pay any of his disciples though he had money to pay. Remember Judas was his treasurer. Who paid paul? It was the voluntary giving he recieved and his personal hustle that he used to fund his expenses. Now in the case you are paid, is it not right that you see to the growth of the church? How do you expect church to keep paying your rent, chruch bills and your salary when your income is not upto 10 percent of monthly expenditure. Some of these pastors are the only one in the church. Some have been numbering units since last year. Haba, if you dont have new customers, shouldnt you be bothered yourself.

Lifestone:

If that guy is a true pastor, he won't drag the church to social media for ridicule. He knows his action won't bring back his job, but trying to embarrass the church which should ordinarily be his constituency. Where's Daddy Freeze today

We are on the same page on that. Many attend bible school when no job is in sight and get employed as a pastor. It doesn't mean that they work for God.

We all know church growth is another terminology for money inflow

Angelfrost:


That statement in bold is Biblically out of line my good sir... If you are a true believer, I will advise you apply caution in your arguments and defense of the laity before you indulge in heresy.

You made a good point earlier in stating that the pastor was sacked for going against or falling short of the terms of agreement of his employment (Church growth). You should have stopped there, not trying too hard to further belabor the point.

The things pertaining to the Kingdom of God are Spiritual, and must never be adjudged carnally. Preaching the Gospel is the sworn and expected duty of all believers, for the sole purpose of increasing church growth. By church growth, not necessarily any specific denomination, but the universal church of Christ which has no denomination.

I will like to believe these pastors' failings cut across so many Spiritually sensitive areas, hence the rightful need for removal... There is definitely more to this.

You and Mr. Reno are taking this too far!

Bro but that is the true. It may sound too brutal. If you listen to this Pastor, that was the basis of his arguments, instead of confronting his disappointment and trusting God for the way forward he's destroying his constituency.

Lifestone:
Some lazy anti church elements never bothered to read the letter anyway, they ran to town screaming Church is a Business.
What's in a Pastor that could not bring in souls into the Kingdom of God? What was he hired to do?
Am not surprised where we are today as a nation when we could not hold people accountable for the assignments that they were given.
The attitude of the Pastor is the more reason he failed, an entitlement mentality and he was rightly sacked.

Be deceiving yourself, so you expect them to acknowledge that it's because of money they were sacked.
If all the big pastors were gaining converts steadily from christ time till now, who will not be a .....

Lifestone:
Some lazy anti church elements never bothered to read the letter anyway, they ran to town screaming Church is a Business.
What's in a Pastor that could not bring in souls into the Kingdom of God? What was he hired to do?
Am not surprised where we are today as a nation when we could not hold people accountable for the assignments that they were given.
The attitude of the Pastor is the more reason he failed, an entitlement mentality and he was rightly sacked.

dumb

authority2006:


The first part, you didn't believe it happened, you didn't believe it make sense.

But in the second part, you still went ahead to justify what you think that doesn't make sense. What's wrong with you my friend?

In the first part, I talked about not believing the news that some pastors were sacked because they weren't sending enough money to Oyedepo like many of you wanted us to believe on that thread. Did you read properly or just want to push an opposing narrative?

Justifying what I think based on my knowledge of church administration is wrong??

I even went as far as giving reasons as to why a pastor may be dismissed from a church. What is it that you don't understand?

Please don't bother quoting me if (1) you're not a Christian,(2) if you have zero idea of church administration. I don't want to waste my time on a Monday morning.