₦airaland Forum

mrZENographer:
Then read Matthew 25. The wise virgins and the foolish virgins. (The foolish virgins were left in the darkness)

Then read
Luke 21:36 Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke chapter 21 episode is the same as Matthew 24

Now Read wholesomelly Revelation chapter 19.
Take particular note of verses 6-9
Revelation 19:11 is the second coming of Jesus with his armies (the raptured saints called to the marriage supper) coming from heaven.

It after the war against the Antichrist, then in Revelation chapter 20 those believers who died matyrs by the Antichrist are resurrected.

Case D - In the parable of the 10 brides, as told by Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13, Jesus explains that before His return, all, not some, of the 10 brides will have slept aka died while waiting for Him, the bridegroom to return, and will all be raised from sleep(resurrection) just when the bridegroom arrives. Surely, you can see how there is nothing of this contradicts that that is written of in Case A OR Case C so far.

Kobojunkie:
I have implied nothing but simply taken a careful look at 2 of the passages you provided for proof of your claims about rapture and found that there exists a disparity between your "Rapture" belief and what is in fact stated in the two passages.

Again..I am not asking you to spew back any of the many "Rapture" doctrines back at me. What I am asking is that with eyes wide open, you examine what is in fact written in scripture.

Case A. Revelations 20 vs 4 -6 explains that the raising of the dead who were beheaded for resisting the beast and its image, and refusing to take its mark will be the first resurrection of the dead, and those raised will reign with Christ for 1000 years afterwards. What is important to note is that these first to be resurrected from the grave are those who already encountered the beast and its image, and were beheaded for their refusal to bow hence.

Case B. 1 Thessalonians 4 vs 13 - 18 also tells of a raising of the dead but does not specify if it is the first raising or a second raising of the dead. What it does speak of in addition is that those living, when, we are not told when, will join up with those raised from the dead in the clouds.

Case C. Matthew 24 vs 3 - 14, does not in fact tell a conflicting story to that told of in Case A as if you pay close attention, what it instead says the end will come after all the tribulation expressed in Matthew 24 vs 9 - 12 has come and passed. in Matthew 24 vs 13, Jesus Christ explains that it is those who have passed the test of these tribulations that will be saved.

So surely you can see how Case A is made by Case C where Jesus Christ Himself speaks of the salvation to come to these occurring after, and not before, they have endured the tribulation He spoke of.

If we are to assume case A correct, then surely the "Rapture" which purports a raising of the dead taking place, could not happen before the tribulation(beast and its image period) since case A clearly states that it is the first resurrection - there cannot be 2 first resurrections.

If we are to assume case A false, then we should in the same token throw ought all other "Rapture" ideas that root from the book of Revelation.

What do you mean by I am spewing many rapture doctrines?
There are only two known rapture doctrines. The pre-tribulation rapture and the post-tribulation rapture.
Your persuasion is of the post-tribulation rapture.

The tribulations that believers go through in Matthew 24:3-14 is not "the Great tribulation". Those can be classified as normal persecutions.
"The great tribulation" starts when the Antichrist or Beast is manifest to reign as a god in the one world Government/financial system Revelation 13:16-18.
From Matthew 24:15 is where the Antichrist manifest who makes a 7 year covenant with Israel. And break the covenant in the middle of the 7 years and defiling the temple, "abomination that makes desolate".

*The resurrection of the JUST is called the first resurrection.*
You are confusing yourself by looking at "the first resurrection" as a first and second resurrection.
The same way you are confusing the persecutions of endtime believers in matthew 24:9-10 with the Antichrist reign of terror from matthew 24:15 downwards. These are totally different.

Kobojunkie:
Case D - In the parable of the 10 brides, as told by Jesus Christ in Matthew 25 vs 1 - 13, Jesus explains that before His return, all, not some, of the 10 brides will have slept aka died while waiting for Him, the bridegroom to return, and will all be raised from sleep(resurrection) just when the bridegroom arrives. Surely, you can see how there is nothing of this contradicts that that is written of in Case A OR Case C so far.

Did you just listen to yourself?

So the 10 virgins you claim are dead saints (sleeping) are also watching and praying? and buying oil while they are dead?
Ridiculous.

And then even, where are the living saints in the parable? Confusion

mrZENographer:
Did you just listen to yourself?

So the 10 virgins you claim are dead saints (sleeping) are also watching and praying? and buying oil while they are dead?
Ridiculous.

And then even, where are the living saints in the parable? Confusion

You need to go back and read that parable again, only this time, let the story read itself to you instead of you attempting to make it fit the narrative you seem used to.

You are told in the story that while they were waiting for the bridegroom, they all slept. Where you get watching and praying from, I have no clue.

When the bridegroom was finally there, they were all of them roused from sleep. Only after after did those without oil make attempts to go buy oil. Jesus Christ more than explained to His followers that those who belong to Him while dead were instead asleep. Read the story of Lazarus of Bethel if you need to. Also consider Jesus Christ's teaching in John 5 vs 19 - 29, where He declares that when He returns, He will raise all those sleeping in their graves to judgement.

All of the brides were obviously not saints or all of them would have been ushered into the wedding banquet. As Jesus Christ explained in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46, among those in His flock are sheep and goats.

As for those living, Jesus Christ did not mention that there were those who did not sleep among the brides.

So, go back, read with a mind cleared of all previous misconceptions so you can better understand what that parable is teling you of that event.