AntiChristian:


I am correct that if Jesus is 100% God and 100% man then he is greater than his father who is simply 100% God.

Even at that your Logic does not work! "The father is greater than I"



Read the context of the verse from the beginning Rev 1:4-5. It shows the reference is to God not Jesus as Jesus was mentioned in verse 5.



The "He" in bold is undefined. It can refer to Jesus or God.
And these verses does not make Jesus God still.

No need to mention this since you don't care. I am anti Christian not antichrist.
The real Christ does not know anything like trinity Christianity.

haekymbahd:
Both Gods are not the same, Is the Yahwe of Jews God of love. Judgement on the day of resurrection will be based on truth not sentimental affair.

Allah SWT said:

"And they have taken besides Allah [false] deities that they would be for them [a source of] honor."
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 81)

"No! Those gods will deny their worship of them and will be against them opponents [on the Day of Judgement]."
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 82)

"Do you not see that We have sent the devils upon the disbelievers, inciting them to [evil] with [constant] incitement?"
(QS. Maryam 19: Verse 83)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

Felimax:


You can't believe in some part of Jesus and disbelieve in some part, Christ called such people Hypocrites. I have been able to show comprehensively that the islamic Allah is distinctively different from that of the Christian Allah. We are not and can never serve the same God. Good night!

haekymbahd:
Who said they are not one beleivers are also one with Jesus and Allah

But the reality

Mark 12
29 Jesus answered, The first and principal one of all commands is: Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord;

Felimax:


I don't argue the bible, i contrast and justapose. The same bible you are quoting you have refused to accept in total. Looking for who to argue with, you can fall back to those thread that you ealier mentioned, for me i have been able to prove to you that Your Allah and my Allah are not the same.
Jesus was not killed by Christians but by people who thought they knew God more than Him. Truth is, who will be saved will be saved and those who will be condemn will be. For me it is Jesus or nothing, my life solely depend on him any other thing short of this is a complete NO. Stay in peace.

haekymbahd:
And I also repeat the same thing your illah is Jesus while our Allah is the God of Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Allah SWT said:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth? And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent."
(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 17)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

haekymbahd:
well Nazarenes, trinitarians, Jehova witnesses, Jews all follow the bible yet worship different gods so it is not certain that your Allah (Jesus) is the Allah of the bible.

Felimax:


Hold your quran very strong. Leave the bible alone. The bible and your quran are not mates. The bible is to the eternal Father who beget's a Son (Jesus) and your quran says the direct opposite.
This same tactics is employed by the devil to deceive the saints of God and you are employing same strategy. Jesus actually have a name for you guys but i will not mention it. You quote the bible as if you believe in it, just mind your quran please and stay clear from my garden of eden.

Felimax:
Muslims KNOW NOTHING about JESUS CHRIST! What they know about JESUS is like a basket full of water. God has made it so interesting that they lack reasoning and common sense when it comes to this (apologies if you like).
CHECK THIS OUT!

Jn 14:8-11
Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.' Jesus said to him,

9.
'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?

10.
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.

11.
You must believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe it on the evidence of these works

Observe that what Phillip demanded to know was to see the Father or that the Son should reveal the Father, how come the Son suddenly attribute the Father to be Himself? That is to say Jesus is the absolute and true reflection of the Father or if you like just as the master said and i quote I Am in the Father and the Father is in Me. (I AM).
We cannot use our limited knowledge and human way of reasoning to decipher the absolute attribution of God. God is God in the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Shalom!

haekymbahd:
stop spewing trash no man has ever seen Allah yet. God is not Jesus, Jesus had been seen but not God himself. Jesus was a messenger/prohet i.e was sent by God and whoever beleive him (Jesus) then Allah will abide with such person. You can't see God (Allah).

1 John 4
12 No man has at any time [yet] seen God. But if we love one another, God abides (lives and remains) in us and His love (that love which is essentially His) is brought to completion (to its full maturity, runs its full course, is perfected) in us!

13 By this we come to know (perceive, recognize, and understand) that we abide (live and remain) in Him and He in us: because He has given (imparted) to us of His [Holy] Spirit.

14 And [besides] we ourselves have seen (have deliberately and steadfastly contemplated) and bear witness that the Father has sent the Son [as the] Savior of the world.

15 Anyone who confesses (acknowledges, owns) that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides (lives, makes His home) in him and he [abides, lives, makes his home] in God.



Allah SWT said:

"They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth? And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent."
(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 17)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

If the Father was Jesus why did Jesus say the father forsake him on the cross it was because the Father in him left him at that moment. So Jesus is not the father. If you beleive the father will abide in you just like he abide in Jesus.

Mathew 27
46 And about the ninth hour (three o'clock) Jesus cried with a loud voice, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?--that is, My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me [leaving Me [l]helpless, forsaking and failing Me in My need]?

nencounter10:




Good day friend, the first and most basic fact in Christianity is this: Allah is not Jehova, and Jehova is not Allah. The implication of this is that one of the two is not God. A second implication of it is that the followers of one or the other are worshipping a non-existing God and are living in deceit, that is they have been wholly and completely deceived.The third implication of this is that the Holy book of one or the other is a book of lies and deciet.

nencounter10:


4. He was the Son of God
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

nencounter10:


5. He was God
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

nencounter10:

Jesus said several times that God was his father. That was one prime reason he was crucified. The Jews avered that God does not have a child, all God has are servants. The futher declared that by calling God his father Jesus was speaking plasphemy and as such deserves to die.

The Jews understood very clearly that if God were to have a child, his child would also be God. So, they were angry with Jesus for calling God his father because that also meant he was calling himself God.

haekymbahd:
What is the probability that Jesus Christ is the same as Yeshua Lamashciack

Felimax:


I will answer that when you are able to cite a quotation from the quran as regard the name Yeshua Lamashciack. I don't want to pump adrenaline so please stay your distance. You guys cannot stand a sane arguement on your quran yet you want to go jewish.
You so much believe in the Torah or the bible because your quran lacks absolute truth. Hold your quran in peace let me hold my bible and breathe some fresh air.
Jesus gives life and boast of absolute power to give life just as the Father does and you your quran (Surah Hajj) "you said only Allah can give life and take life"
Please, don't push me.

Felimax:


We are not in the same world. Shalom!

nencounter10:


Good day friend, the first and most basic fact in Christianity is this: Allah is not Jehova, and Jehova is not Allah. The implication of this is that one of the two is not God. A second implication of it is that the followers of one or the other are worshipping a non-existing God and are living in deceit, that is they have been wholly and completely deceived.The third implication of this is that the Holy book of one or the other is a book of lies and deciet.

1. He is an old testament prophetet
He was a prophet given unto Isreal when the old testament was still in force. He came to fulfil the old testament, lay it aside and kickstart a new testament.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

All Bible scholars agree that the word prophet in the above verse refers to Jesus that is why it's first letter is always capitalised in all translations. Morever Peter quoted the same scripture during his sermon to the crowd that gathered after he performed a miracle at the beautiful gate in reference to Jesus.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Also, Jesus was correctly addressed as a prophet in the Gospel.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

2. He was the son of David
to
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

3. He was the son of Joseph

Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

4. He was the Son of God
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

5. He was God
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word was with God (Theon), and the Word was God (Theos). 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

6. He was the King of Isreal
Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Ok. For clarification, when we say Jesus is God what we mean is that Jesus is a Deity. God - a deity, gave birth to Jesus-a deity. The father - God and Jesus are two different deities. Two different persons each of which are God.

Jesus said several times that God was his father. That was one prime reason he was crucified. The Jews avered that God does not have a child, all God has are servants. They futher declared that by calling God his father Jesus was speaking plasphemy and as such deserves to die.

The Jews understood very clearly that if God were to have a child, his child would also be God. So, they were angry with Jesus for calling God his father because that also meant he was calling himself God.

ADDED LATER:
See relevant scriptures

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

AntiChristian:


Not on the same page, but same world.

You lie.

Na so you guys dey run when you see a superior and logical argument!

Felimax:
Muslims KNOW NOTHING about JESUS CHRIST! What they know about JESUS is like a basket full of water. God has made it so interesting that they lack reasoning and common sense when it comes to this (apologies if you like).
CHECK THIS OUT!

Jn 14:8-11
Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.' Jesus said to him,

9.
'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?

10.
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.

11.
You must believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe it on the evidence of these works

Observe that what Phillip demanded to know was to see the Father or that the Son should reveal the Father, how come the Son suddenly attribute the Father to be Himself? That is to say Jesus is the absolute and true reflection of the Father or if you like just as the master said and i quote I Am in the Father and the Father is in Me. (I AM).
We cannot use our limited knowledge and human way of reasoning to decipher the absolute attribution of God. God is God in the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Shalom!

Felimax:
Muslims KNOW NOTHING about JESUS CHRIST! What they know about JESUS is like a basket full of water. God has made it so interesting that they lack reasoning and common sense when it comes to this (apologies if you like).
CHECK THIS OUT!

Jn 14:8-11
Philip said, 'Lord, show us the Father and then we shall be satisfied.' Jesus said to him,

9.
'Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? 'Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father, so how can you say, "Show us the Father"?

10.
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I say to you I do not speak of my own accord: it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his works.

11.
You must believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe it on the evidence of these works

Observe that what Phillip demanded to know was to see the Father or that the Son should reveal the Father, how come the Son suddenly attribute the Father to be Himself? That is to say Jesus is the absolute and true reflection of the Father or if you like just as the master said and i quote I Am in the Father and the Father is in Me. (I AM).
We cannot use our limited knowledge and human way of reasoning to decipher the absolute attribution of God. God is God in the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Shalom!

capnies:


JESUS AND GOD ARE TWO SEPARATE ENTTITIES IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE FATHER TO BE IN JESUS AND HE WILL TELL MARY AFTER RESURRECTION LET ME GO AND SHOW MYSELF TO MY FATHET FIRST JOHN 20:17
JESUS KEPT TELLING US HIS FATHER SENT HIM
JESUS KEPT PRAYING TO GOD- HIS FATHER YOU CAN ONLY PRAY TO YOUR CREATOR REV 3:14
GOD, YAHWEH OR JEHOVAH CANNOT PRAY TO ANYBODY
HE KEEPS SAYING NOT MY WELL, LET YOUR WILL BE DONE
AND MANY MORE STOP THIS HERESY

Felimax:


Run indeed! Superior and logical argument my anus. So i should not sleep because i met a confuse fellow on NL, Lol!
Your moniker alone has said a lot about you. The best thing i can do for you is to allow wallow in ignorance. keep your religion to yourself. i have met and seen lots of your kind and i always find it so interesting when people sink in ignorance.
It gives me joy.

AntiChristian:


You are truly Christian.

The Biblical Jesus said same thing.

Mark 4:10-12
When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

AntiChristian:


Allah is not the Christian God that is composed of three persons. Allah is one and only God that is indivisible, needs no son or helper/partner to do anything.




Jesus was a Prophet. Islam agrees to this. But how was Prophet Jesus like Moses? Moses had wives, father, Children, had a system of governance, lead people, addressed Kings, had revealed laws from God, etc.

Moses was not like Jesus as he was not a son of God, not among your trinity persons, not 100% God + 100% human at the same time.



David did not give birth to Jesus. We may say he was his ancestor. Jesus had no earthly father.



Jesus was an adopted son of Joseph. No where was Jesus called with Joseph's name. Jesus had no earthy father.
Catholics would have worshiped Joseph too as Father of God as they do ask Mary Mother of God to pray for them sinners...




Why does God needs son? Human need son to multiply.

Being "son of God" was just a metaphor! How did God gave birth to Jesus?

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Matt 5:9
God is above having sons for He is able to do all things!



Jesus never said this. Paul said this in the letter he wrote to the Philippians.



Where does it mention Jesus in the above? The words translated to God were different. See above in bold. Jesus is not even same as God from this verse.



No one appointed him King in Israel. He was not coronated nor crowned except in mockery. It was Jews that eventually killed him on the cross according to your Bible.




How does this make sense? God give birth? How? Two different persons which both are God, one gave birth to the other, the father is God 100%, son is God 100% and Human 100% which makes him greater than his father?



The Jews were angry because Jesus refused to speak to them in the language they understand. Why?

Mark 4:10-12
When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that," 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

Look at the context of the statement from John 10: 29-31
My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Even the Jews he was preaching to started to stone him...

In John 5:30 Jesus said:
I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will.

“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. John 14:28

A father can't be greater that his son and also be one with him!
So what does "I and my Father are one" really mean here?

It is the unity of purpose! God send Jesus as He sent Moses, Abraham, etc.
Jesus was a Prophet not God!

Remember Jesus had a God (Theon)
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God (Theon) and your God (Theon).’” John 20:17

Jesus's father was their father
Jesus's God was their God
This logically makes them sons of God too.

nencounter10:



Sorry, I don't have time for debates. I just state the truth and move on.

Theon and Theos are different forms of the noun Theo. Just as have, had and has are different form of the verb 'to have' in English language.Consult a Greek Grammer book for more info.

As for the other thing you wrote consult the thread below for more info.

https://www.nairaland.com/6691292/lets-talk-gods

haekymbahdx:
sorry for quoting you do you mean just like God and god are different forms of the same noun (GOD) but has different meanings and interpretation.

I was only wondering why the author of John 1:1 didn't use the same words either Theon or Theos in the same sentence.

haekymbahdx:
sorry for quoting you do you mean just like God and god are different forms of the same noun (GOD) but has different meanings and interpretation.

I was only wondering why the author of John 1:1 didn't use the same words either Theon or Theos in the same sentence.

nencounter10:



https://www.nairaland.com/search?q=accusative&search=Search

In case you are unable to follow the link I gave you above, the following should help you.


Just as we have the nominative(subject) case and objective(object) case in English and the form of a word(usually pronouns) changes with cases.For instancd, He is used for the nominative case while 'him' is used for the objective case. Both refers to singular male person. Another example is the word 'they' . They is used In the nominative case while 'them' is used in the objective case. They both refer to plural male person.

Similarly, in Greek, a noun has up to eight cases. Theos is used in one case and theon is used in another case. They bother refer to the noun God.

haekymbahdx:
Am I right if I say this

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

En arkhêi ên ho lógos, kaì ho lógos ên pròs tòn theón, kaì theòs ên ho lógos

In the beginning existed the Word, and the Word existed with the God, and a God was the Word.



Note: there is difference between the God and or a god (a God)

ton theon - The God (definite) NOUN

Kai theos.- a God (indefinite) ADJECTIVE

nencounter10:


I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude.I am just not interested in pursuing this further. Follow the link I gave you. Someone already gave a detailed break down of the Grammer of that verse somewhere on nairaland.

MightySparrow:
Muhammad Is a messenger only to the Arabs. He is the only prophet outside Jewish race. He brought confusion rather than Message.




Taliban, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram are clear messages of Allah and Muhammad.

haekymbahdx:
prove it to the op that Jesus was Almighty God and not prophet/messenger of God as muhammad claimed stop all this sentimental act and expect rebuttal too and defend your claim...

haekymbahdx:
Am I right if I say this

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

En arkhêi ên ho lógos, kaì ho lógos ên pròs tòn theón, kaì theòs ên ho lógos

In the beginning existed the Word, and the Word existed with the God, and a God was the Word.

The meaning of the Greek article
The meaning of the Greek article is slightly different, which can make it difficult for English speakers to grasp.

"The primary function of the [Greek] article is not to make a word definite.

When the article is present, it is emphasizing identity

When the article is not present, it is generally emphasizing the quality of the substantive."

-Mounce, BBG, p. 334