₦airaland Forum

Hismasterpiece:
when you atheists say evidence what do you mean?

For me it means incontrovertible facts that point solely to a particular cause. I have experienced, heard and seen lots of things that are claimed to be of the supernatural bent but on closer inspection turn out to be completely natural or in part unexplained.

triplechoice:
You're sounding like a religious person or still think like one.

You cannot claim to be mentally free when you're dogmatically invested in a particular ideology .

The atheistic position is an ideology of its own and it has its limitations.. It is not a perfect position.

Atheist have their own worries too. We know they are prone to depression. That is not to say the religious are not . Everyone is. But for the Atheist, when it happens, it usually end in suicide or a life of continual dependence on antidepressants to maintain sanity. The figures are out there if you want to confirm.

It is not common for the deeply religious to have this problem. They rely on an external agency (imaginary or not) which has been demonstrated to provide psychological relief more better than any antidepressants .

Believing in a god in times of trouble can
provide psychological relief and help to remove from one's mind the weight of the burden worries place on it.

Please don't misled people by making promises which are not tenable so they can join your "religion" .It is why I already said you still think like a religious person. Understand first , what you're into before asking others to join you.

Concerning scamming by pastors, everyone can be scammed. Religious people are not the only ones that can be scammed. We can easily see others being scammed and mock them and not when we ourselves are being scammed.

A scammer takes advantage of your ignorance to scam you and you, yourself ,are ignorant of so many things .So you're still susceptible.



And again,non of us can act or think completely free of bias. As long as you hold on to a particular viewpoint, you cannot help it. Your biases would reveal itself, at some point, without you realising it. So don't boast.

Finally, atheism is not synonymous with courage. There are courageous religious people who "courageously" defend their faith.

Most people
becoming atheist these days, are yet to fully understand the atheistic position and what it entails. The allure of personal freedom is what is pushing most into it. Which is a good thing.

But freedom comes with certain responsibility. Are you ready?

You are correct in most of your assessments but you make it sound like taking medication for mental issues is a bad thing. I'd much prefer to take medication than live in a delusion that there are unseen enemies all around me. People do all manner of dangerous and tragic things under such a delusion. Won't they be better off receiving treatment instead of plunging their loved ones into chaos?

A001:
How do you handle depression as an atheist, especially during the times of illness/sickness, financial struggle, and when living alone at such times?

I try to focus on all the things that are important to me and the love of my family. Do not underestimate how much having someone just hug you with love and no agenda can help you get a grip. If you are living alone then good conversations with loved ones can be a substitute or even a hangout with good friends can help.

We live in a world that continues to throw challenges at us, we must learn to accept it and work with it. One is is that just as there are bouts of challenges there are also bouts of good fortune, take everything as there come and try to enjoy the experience.

Hismasterpiece:
Isn't existence evidence enough?

When you see the stars, the moon, the sky, creation in general doesn't common sense tell you that it is somebody that put all those things there?

Have you ever seen anything that wasn't created? Buildings don't build themselves. Cars don't make themselves. Using that same logic this world didn't make itself. And thus the evidence for a creator.

There are many things that form without a creator. Mountains for instance have several natural processes that cause their formation. That something exists is not enough evidence for a personal anthropomorphic creator.

FreeIgboho:
That's the point, we have no way of knowing the true nature of reality, so you can't go about saying God does not exist. YOU DON'T KNOW!!

I agree the universe is vast and we don't know if gods could be existing somewhere or somehow however I know that the god the Christians, Muslims and Jews believe in does not exist or more succinctly I have sufficient evidence that gives me confidence that such a god does not exist.

LordReed:
You are correct in most of your assessments but you make it sound like taking medication for mental issues is a bad thing. I'd much prefer to take medication than live in a delusion that there are unseen enemies all around me. People do all manner of dangerous and tragic things under such a delusion. Won't they be better off receiving treatment instead of plunging their loved ones into chaos?

It may appear so but I didn't set out to downplay the importance of using medications or any form of approved therapy to manage depression. It would be irresponsible for me to discourage anyone from accessing Medicare. Also,prayer alone as solution, is not what I should be found promoting.

I only wanted him to understand that the perfect picture he seems to be painting about atheism should be discarded. That atheism also comes with its own problems too. Atheist , unlike the theist , are not shy from admitting this.

He should tell it the way it is. Atheist admit that they are humans like everyone else and being an atheist doesn't give you any advantage or provide some special treat once you become you. But of course, one knows better than those who do believe and are afraid to question it all.

After " accusing" others severally on this board of using deception to lure people into joining their group, he has still gone ahead to do the same thing. And I wonder why? Hence my response.

And it wasn't a matter of me insisting that the theist position is better or superior in any way, but that both positions have their own limitations something he was unwilling to admit

triplechoice:
It may appear so but I didn't set out to downplay the importance of using medications or any form of approved therapy to manage depression. It would be irresponsible for me to discourage anyone from accessing Medicare. Also,prayer alone as solution, is not what I should be found promoting.

I only wanted him to understand that the perfect picture he seems to be painting about atheism should be discarded. That atheism also comes with its own problems too. Atheist , unlike the theist , are not shy from admitting this.

He should tell it the way it is. Atheist admit that they are humans like everyone else and being an atheist doesn't give you any advantage or provide some special treat once you become you. But of course, one knows better than those who do believe and are afraid to question it all.

After " accusing" others severally on this board of using deception to lure people into joining their group, he has still gone ahead to do the same thing. And I wonder why? Hence my response.

And it wasn't a matter of me insisting that the theist position is better or superior in any way, but that both positions have their own limitations something he was unwilling to admit

I agree. Becoming an atheist doesn't provide you any special advantages, if anything you become acutely aware of all the limitations of yourself and the universe around you.

LordReed:
I agree. Becoming an atheist doesn't provide you any special advantages, if anything you become acutely aware of all the limitations of yourself and the universe around you.

Exactly

LordReed:
I try to focus on all the things that are important to me and the love of my family. Do not underestimate how much having someone just hug you with love and no agenda can help you get a grip. If you are living alone then good conversations with loved ones can be a substitute or even a hangout with good friends can help.

We live in a world that continues to throw challenges at us, we must learn to accept it and work with it. One is is that just as there are bouts of challenges there are also bouts of good fortune, take everything as there come and try to enjoy the experience.

Insightful

LordReed:
Easy to explain cos it happens to me a lot. The edge of your pillow or pillow case was what brushed your shoulder. It feels shockingly delightful when it happens and feels very intimate too.

A HAND touched me. I believe i know what a hand touch feels like. Plus it had never happened to me before prior to that time and has never since happened to me again since then.

LordReed:
For me it means incontrovertible facts that point solely to a particular cause. I have experienced, heard and seen lots of things that are claimed to be of the supernatural bent but on closer inspection turn out to be completely natural or in part unexplained.

things like what?

LordReed:
There are many things that form without a creator. Mountains for instance have several natural processes that cause their formation. That something exists is not enough evidence for a personal anthropomorphic creator.

so how do you explain human existence? please don't even mention evolution.

LordReed:

There are many things that form without a creator. Mountains for instance have several natural processes that cause their formation. That something exists is not enough evidence for a personal anthropomorphic creator.

and what of all the other things that have creators? what do you have to say about them?

Hismasterpiece:
A HAND touched me. I believe i know what a hand touch feels like. Plus it had never happened to me before prior to that time and has never since happened to me again since then.

You can't even remember what you ate last week but you think you remember what a "ghost hand" feels like all these years later?

Hismasterpiece:
things like what?

Things like healing or good fortune.

Hismasterpiece:
so how do you explain human existence? please don't even mention evolution.

Why shouldn't I mention it? We are an outcome of the evolutionary process that has been established as fact.

Hismasterpiece:
and what of all the other things that have creators? what do you have to say about them?

Somethings have human creators and others don't, that doesn't lead me to conclude that all things must have creators.

LordReed:
Why shouldn't I mention it? We are an outcome of the evolutionary process that has been established as fact.

Process na beginning? Snake.

LordReed:
You can't even remember what you ate last week but you think you remember what a "ghost hand" feels like all these years later?

So you forgot all that ever happened to you before last week since you forgot what you ate? FFO reed.

LordReed:
I agree. Becoming an atheist doesn't provide you any special advantages, if anything you become acutely aware of all the limitations of yourself and the universe around you.

It's simply akin to removing your safety sensors and alarms so as not to be disturbed from having an accident.

LordReed:
I agree the universe is vast and we don't know if gods could be existing somewhere or somehow however I know that the god the Christians, Muslims and Jews believe in does not exist or more succinctly I have sufficient evidence that gives me confidence that such a god does not exist.

Smooth evolution from the smooth operator right there.

LordReed:
There are many things that form without a creator. Mountains for instance have several natural processes that cause their formation. That something exists is not enough evidence for a personal anthropomorphic creator.

Are you kidding me, it's a PROCESS duh.Just like in automation and programming. So you think such process also has no maker?

LordReed:
I try to focus on all the things that are important to me and the love of my family. Do not underestimate how much having someone just hug you with love and no agenda can help you get a grip. If you are living alone then good conversations with loved ones can be a substitute or even a hangout with good friends can help.

We live in a world that continues to throw challenges at us, we must learn to accept it and work with it. One is is that just as there are bouts of challenges there are also bouts of good fortune, take everything as there come and try to enjoy the experience.

Of course your Christian family's love. You for run go watch some silly YouTube videos na. Abi na your criminal WhatsApp groups of atheists.

LordReed:
Wrong. I say I may be wrong all the time and remain willing to be proved wrong at any time.

LordReed:
You can't even remember what you ate last week but you think you remember what a "ghost hand" feels like all these years later?

LOL.

There are four times in my life that i have been scared to death.

The first time was when I broke my head as a kid and was bleeding profusely. I was really scared that day and thought I was going to die.

The second time was when I almost drowned in a swimming pool as a kid.

The third time was when a senior in my boarding school punched my nose and I began to bleed profusely from my nose.

The fourth time was that day when an invisible person rubbed my shoulder (in a dark room which makes it even more scary).

Have you ever been scared... Like really scared? Tell me have you forgotten the experience? Scary experiences are truly hard to forget.

I surely can't recall everything I eat but I can recall things that stand out... Like foods that made me vomit or caused me severe stomach pain.

This experience I'm talking about has never before happened to me and never again happened to me.

You atheists have an anti-supernatural bias and are not willing to accept the fact that there are things which exist that you simply don't know, or haven't experienced.

But just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it is false.

LordReed:
Why shouldn't I mention it? We are an outcome of the evolutionary process that has been established as fact.

The theory of evolution is just as it says... A THEORY.

It has never been proven and can never be proven.

Tell me something. If humans evolved from apes then why do apes still exist?

Also if humans evolved from apes why haven't we evolved further? I sure would like to evolve from the way I currently am to something more impressive.

Did you know that in the Charles Darwin book that popularized the theory of evolution he spends the closing chapters of the book doubting his own theory?

Even Charles Darwin didn't postulate the theory of evolution as a fact but just as a theory.

Nobody has ever witnessed evolution and ever will.

LordReed:
Somethings have human creators and others don't, that doesn't lead me to conclude that all things must have creators.

Why shouldn't you arrive at such a conclusion?

Have you ever seen any building that built itself? Or any car that built itself?

Ever since the purported big bang that caused creation there never has been another. Why is that?

Ever since the theorized evolution by natural selection there never has been any further evolution. Why is that?

But ever since the original creation we still see creation in action till today!

Hismasterpiece:
LOL.

There are four times in my life that i have been scared to death.

The first time was when I broke my head as a kid and was bleeding profusely. I was really scared that day and thought I was going to die.

The second time was when I almost drowned in a swimming pool as a kid.

The third time was when a senior in my boarding school punched my nose and I began to bleed profusely from my nose.

The fourth time was that day when an invisible person rubbed my shoulder (in a dark room which makes it even more scary).

Have you ever been scared... Like really scared? Tell me have you forgotten the experience? Scary experiences are truly hard to forget.

I surely can't recall everything I eat but I can recall things that stand out... Like foods that made me vomit or caused me severe stomach pain.

This experience I'm talking about has never before happened to me and never again happened to me.

You atheists have an anti-supernatural bias and are not willing to accept the fact that there are things which exist that you simply don't know, or haven't experienced.

But just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it is false.

Have you ever stared death in the face? I have. Doesn't make me still think there is a supernatural. I dunno why you think one event in your life is the foundation for a belief in a supernatural.

That there are things in this universe we don't know or can't yet explain is no basis to establish belief in the supernatural.

I am not anti-supernatural, I am skeptical. Your "ghost hand" is such a banal example it doesn't even register as something I should consider. Besides several people have tried to verify the existence of supernatural and paranormal powers to no avail. It's not today we started asking questions.

Hismasterpiece:
The theory of evolution is just as it says... A THEORY.

You are mixing up the colloquial usage of the term with it's scientific usage. In the hierarchy of scientific postulations a theory is just about as high as it can get. It means a body of facts and the explanation tying them together are pretty much established as true. In science there is nothing like "just a theory".

It has never been proven and can never be proven.

It has been proven over and over again.

Tell me something. If humans evolved from apes then why do apes still exist?

You obviously don't understand what the theory involves hence this question. The theory does not say whole species just transform into something else. In lay man's terms the theory says that groups of similar organisms separate geographically acquire changes over time that differentiate them from the original group they came from. Which in this case means that the group that became humans and the group that became the apes we see together separated long ago and acquired changes over successive generations.

Also if humans evolved from apes why haven't we evolved further? I sure would like to evolve from the way I currently am to something more impressive.

Again another misunderstanding of the theory. Evolution hasn't stopped and it also requires in many cases more than a single lifetime to see changes. For instance the Scandinavian people of Europe are among the tallest people in the world, their change in height has been tracked over successive generations. Evolution is not a trick where organisms suddenly transform like in magic show.

Did you know that in the Charles Darwin book that popularized the theory of evolution he spends the closing chapters of the book doubting his own theory?

He did not doubt evolution. You can quote the place from his book where you think he did.

Even Charles Darwin didn't postulate the theory of evolution as a fact but just as a theory.

See what I said about theory above.

Nobody has ever witnessed evolution and ever will.

We have and will continue to witness it. The delta variant of the Covid-19 virus is a product of evolution. Drug resistant bacteria are a product of evolution. Dog breeds are a product of evolution. You are watching it everyday happen all around you.

Hismasterpiece:
Why shouldn't you arrive at such a conclusion?

You tell me why I should.

Have you ever seen any building that built itself? Or any car that built itself?

Nope but I have seen human beings doing it so I know how they do it. On the other hand we have seen no god of any sort doing any creating nor do we know how any god could do any creating.

Ever since the purported big bang that caused creation there never has been another. Why is that?

Because the conditions for another big bang don't yet exist.

Ever since the theorized evolution by natural selection there never has been any further evolution. Why is that?

There has been and continues to be.

But ever since the original creation we still see creation in action till today!

I have not seen any god doing any creating anywhere on this planet or in space.

Hismasterpiece:
and what of all the other things that have creators? what do you have to say about them?

There's nothing special about being a person that claims to know God exists

HellVictorinho:
False

Something is proven when it is shown or demonstrated (a property) or when it shows (whatever possesses a property)


Your existence is proven when it is shown or demonstrated by you

You prove that you exist by showing your existence

Bros, u can't prove to ME that u exist outside my head. It is an impossibilty