homeboy205:
Nice perspective

But we still get cold in 9ja, and I’d prefer we stick to factory spec

*****I support the motion of factory recommended oil*** And I respect your point of view too

replete:
Temperature in Jos in some early mornings varies from 14°c to 17°c how about that? Wud you still recommend a 20w on especially a 2010 model car?

aieromon:
Your car, your engine, your pocket, your business.

adanny01:


I read some where that when the new multigrade oil was created, it was initially called all season engine oil.

Understand this, there are all season tires but there are mud, snow, desert, off-road, ràcing, drifting etc tires. Basically, àll season tires are good for all season but not best for all terrains.

Same with the engine oil, manufacturers are aware users prefer all season oil so they gave them that but there is engine oil for every engine and for different seasons and even better performance and higher mileage.

So àll season engine oil is good for all seasons but too expensive if you have just one season in our case.

thebigkendo:
Lemme scatter the thread..

Dru23 come & see something

Iv been waiting for some action

dfos2k:
There are so many car pros here oo! From the perspective of a car owner I'll tell you to stick to what the manufacturer of the engine says.These arguments and counter-arguments is the reason my people carried abro ATF to pour inside Murano transmission!
Many of you arguing up and down have not seen the sludge 20w50 forms in many engines. (Especially Toyotas and Hondas) if you say oil na oil abeg just shun all these oil grade arguments go buy retail oil dey flex your car.

dfos2k:
There are so many car pros here oo! From the perspective of a car owner I'll tell you to stick to what the manufacturer of the engine says.These arguments and counter-arguments is the reason my people carried abro ATF to pour inside Murano transmission!
Many of you arguing up and down have not seen the sludge 20w50 forms in many engines. (Especially Toyotas and Hondas) if you say oil na oil abeg just shun all these oil grade arguments go buy retail oil dey flex your car.

adanny01:
Getting it right seems to be our local issue. The challenge ranges from supply, price, quality and even the knowledge.

A lot of drivers don't know what oil to use and even when to change it. My concern here is the engine oil spec.

The average US cars we import have a recommendation of 5w-20, 5w-30, 0w-20, 0w-30. The most common oil in Nigeria is 20w-50 followed at a distance by 10w-40.

Lets break the oil spec down one more time.

These are multigraded oils, meaning it is one grade of oil at one temperature and another grade at another temperature. It basically has a wide temperature tolerance.

Before going further, a monograde oil such as SAE 50 becomes too thin at temperatures well greater than 100°C and will be thicker at temperatures well less than 100°C. The main issue is flow and lubrication. At temperatures say 0°C, an SAE 50 will not flow well and thereby the engine with such oil is operating technically without lubrication which is disastrous.

This gave birth to multi grade oil that will flow and lubricate at 0°C as well as at 100°C and still maintain the specific viscosity it is meant to.

Meanwhile let's keep in mind that most engines operate at an optimum operating temperature of 90-100°C.

Lets use 20W-50 for example

20W - the W is "Winter" graded at SAE 20 winter
50 - means the SAE 50 grade

The SAE grades we have are 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 for engine oils.

Now to the crux of the topic, all Winter grades are specifically engineered for cold cranking and starting which are relevant for sub zero temperatures.

The practice of constantly recommending a multigrade oil when we can equally use a cheaper monograde oil in our climate arises. Why use 5W-20 when the 5W isn't relevant to our climate. We could be using SAE 20, SAE 30, SAE 40 and SAE 50 instead of the more expensive multigrade versions.

I saw someone using Total Classic SAE40 for a 2010 car and I couldn't talk since it actually doesn't make sense to use 10W-40 in a climate that will hardly get down to 10°C.

See the graphs for 0W-30 vs SAE 30

The real major difference starts at less than 30°C. I have done live scan in several seasons and have never seen even coolant level at 30°C.

It is safe to conclude we don't have winter and we don't require multigrade oils.

My thoughts actually.

Ikology:


Multi-grade engine oils are still better in their response to temperature changes. Multi-grade engine oil contains viscosity index improver chemical additives, consequently they have high viscosity index than monograde.
Comparing SAE 50 and SAE 20W-50 whose viscosity index is 95 and 120 respectively (minimum) by Standards Organization of Nigeria (SON) standards or whose kinematic viscosity @ 40 degrees is around 240cSt and 180cSt respectively. The above results implies that SAE 50 has low viscosity index and will be adversely affected by low and high temperature changes. At a low temperature not necessary less than zero degrees, like cranking the engine, the oil will be thicker and will not circulate faster, leading to wear in some areas in the engine. However SAE 20W-50 with better viscosity index and a lower cranking viscosity during engine start-up or warm up shows faster circulation and better engine protection during cold or warm start of engine.

Secondly is the apparent viscosity at high temperature and high shear rate, When both oils are in service, and the engine is fully operational, the engine temperature has become very high, analyzing the relative thickness of both oils shows that multi-grade will still have a high thickness compared to monograde. The viscosity at high temperature and high share rate at this point in time reveals that multi-grade offers better protection at high temperature than monograde.

Ikology:


Multi-grade engine oils are still better in their response to temperature changes. Multi-grade engine oil contains viscosity index improver chemical additives, consequently they have high viscosity index than monograde.
Comparing SAE 50 and SAE 20W-50 whose viscosity index is 95 and 120 respectively (minimum) by Standards Organization of Nigeria (SON) standards or whose kinematic viscosity @ 40 degrees is around 240cSt and 180cSt respectively. [b]The above results implies that SAE 50 has low viscosity index and will be adversely affected by low and high temperature changes. [/b]At a low temperature not necessary less than zero degrees, like cranking the engine, the oil will be thicker and will not circulate faster, leading to wear in some areas in the engine. However SAE 20W-50 with better viscosity index and a lower cranking viscosity during engine start-up or warm up shows faster circulation and better engine protection during cold or warm start of engine.

Secondly is the apparent viscosity at high temperature and high shear rate, When both oils are in service, and the engine is fully operational, the engine temperature has become very high, analyzing the relative thickness of both oils shows that multi-grade will still have a high thickness compared to monograde. The viscosity at high temperature and high share rate at this point in time reveals that multi-grade offers better protection at high temperature than monograde.

adanny01:


I agree with you partly.

Lets go practical.

Taking Kinematic Viscosity @100°C Mobil for instance

SAE 50 - 19.6
20W-50 - 20.5

SAE 40 - 15.5
10W-40 - 15.6

This means at engine operating temperature both SAE 40 or 50 will have nearly the same kiñematic viscosity as 10W-40 or 50.

Ask yourself, what is 10W-40, it is SAE 10W + SAE 40.

What is wrong with SAE 40 or 50 or any monograde oil, their problem is low temperature not high. At higher temperatures, the viscosity is at par.

To buttress the point, look at the graphs for SAE 30 and SAE 5W30 i shared earlier.

You will notice
1. The y axis scale on the left is kinematic Viscosity and it's the same for both graphs but not the same on the right which is density.
2. At 60-100°C both grades look exactly the same but start to defer marginally from 60 downwards. That's where the difference is.

Viscosity index is a relationship between Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C and 100°C. As seen above, what changes the Viscosity index is the Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C while the higher remains the same. Looking into Viscosity index in this case will not be a clear picture of the relationship between mono and multi grade oils.

SAE 50 is indeed 20W50 at 100°C but not the same at 40°C.

The point of this thread is to explore the fact that at 100°C a Winter graded oil isn't necessary. The question is at what low temperature is the winter grade absolutely necessary, I think 40°C is still not it. Meanwhile cold cranking values of viscosity of winter oils are meant for sub zero temperatures.

In other words, what's the harm in using a monograde in place of multigrade when in the first place most people use 20W50 in place of 5W20 for example. SAE 40 seems to me a lesser evil than 20W50 as substitute for 5W20.

Lets go practical.

Taking Kinematic Viscosity @100°C Mobil for instance

SAE 50 - 19.6
20W-50 - 20.5

SAE 40 - 15.5
10W-40 - 15.6

The point of this thread is to explore the fact that at 100°C a Winter graded oil isn't necessary. The question is at what low temperature is the winter grade absolutely necessary, I think 40°C is still not it. Meanwhile cold cranking values of viscosity of winter oils are meant for sub zero temperatures.

Ikology:

OK


Yes they both have the same kinematic viscosity @ 100 deg, however they behaves differently at this temperature. SAE 50 achieved its viscosity (19.6) with just base oil alone, however SAE 20W-50 achieved its viscosity with a base oil and a viscosity index improver chemical additives. Remember viscosity is a measure of fluids resistance to flow and shear. This viscosity index improver additives is a polymeric chemical substance whose molecules tend to stretch out as temperature increases, thereby increasing the fluids internal friction causing the fluid to flow at a slower rate. when the fluid flows at a slower rate, the viscosity increases. The implication is the oil thickens as the temperature increases.

SAE 50, SAE 40 does have Viscosity index improver additives as a component during its formulation.

These chemicals include: Polymethacrylates (PMA), Polyisobutylene (PIB),Olefin Co-polymers(OCP) etc.



Yes winter grades are subjected to cold cranking tests usually at -15deg, this only helps to explain the fluidity or the cranking viscosity at that temperature, The advantage is that oil will not freeze but will remain fluid in order to continue it's lubricant function. it will also paint a picture of cranking viscosity of the oil let say at 25deg. During engine start-up, multi-grade oils reaches its destination faster even in warmer climates.

I wouldn't advise anyone to use SAE 50/40 in any PCM

Seems you care less about start-up wear, high temperature protection and fuel economy(mono-grades are heavier)

Yes winter grades are subjected to cold cranking tests usually at -15deg,

HeavenlyBang:
Feels like this entire post only considers optimal operating conditions.

Fun fact, most wear and tear in an engine occurs at start-up.

finofaya:


I don't think there is any connection between sludge and 20w50. Sludge build up is mainly caused by using the oil waaaay past the recommended service interval.

adanny01:


I have never used either SAE 40 or 50 in my life. However, I have seen an entire fleet of brand new Toyota Hiase buses of an Inter state transport coy use Total Classic SAE 40 in drums as lube oil. This same company buys premium Michelin tires for their use, so its not that they couldn't afford 10W-40.

This thread was created on the day I saw a friend use the same oil and has been using on all his cars for 20yrs now. When he bought the oil, instead on convincing otherwise, I asked myself why not. It's a lesser evil to 20W50?



Start up wear - I am not convinced because in some places like Alaska, you crank at say -15°c but in Nigeria, I am not sure we get down to 30°C. Yes at 30°C SAE 40 will be thicker and have higher viscosity to 10W40 but the difference is waaaay less than 50%. What is the impact when you still have reasonable flow and that the engine gets to 60 in less that 2minutes with thermostat in place? My guess is insignificant. I think its not as bad as having 20W50 which cars survive on well over 400,000km.

High temperature protection - I don't agree

Monogrades are heavier - I agree 100% due to higher density

Fuel economy - I think it's too little of a difference in density to impact fuel economy



Not just test, they are graded primarily based on these test. Just as mono grade oil grading is based on viscosity at 40°C and100°C winter grades are graded based on viscosity at -15°c etc their significance deminishes as the engine gets warmer

High temperature protection - I don't agree

I have seen an entire fleet of brand new Toyota Hiase buses of an Inter state transport coy use Total Classic SAE 40 in drums as lube oil.

Ikology:


My last take this;

You are not interested in their chemical composition, OEM approvals and API specifications. You are comparing 10W-40 and SAE 40 because they both have same temperature at 100deg when they are yet to be used (fresh oil). Have you considered running a used oil analysis say after 1000km mileage? Your used oil analysis will show the extent of viscosity loss, acid build up, oxidation, sludge formation, wear metals.


you can only achieve 10W-40 formulation with a synthetic base oil, an oil that resists both oxidation and thermal degradation


That you saw them do it doesn't make it right, however the bus model and their lubricant specification/API must also be considered.

Finally ordinally road side base oil without any additives or treatment can even offer some protection, but for how long? Chemical additives helps to extend the useful life of an engine oil.

dfos2k:
uncle I'm speaking from experience. 20w50 oil Grade na slow death for modern engines.

Carlmax:
Wow I love this thread, so is it safe for me to use an an SAE 10w-40 for my camry 2005 instead of 5w-30 as recommended by Toyota, cos 5w-30 is so difficult to find and expensive.

nbolaji:


I use Total Quartz 20W 50 in my engine since I got the car. How much do you buy the 5W-30 over there.

Grupo:


Maybe you were not changing your oil on time.

The picture below is m engine. I use Mobil 20W 50 and change it unfailingly after 2k miles and less.

No sludge whatsoever.

If your car still has the thermostat, meaning that it maintain operating temperature, and you change your oil regularly, then no sludge will build up.

See my engine below.

xperiencelove:

Is your engine still run quietly as it was when it was bought as Tokunbo?
Why changing oil every 2k miles when you can buy an advance synthetic oil that will last 6k-8k miles even when manufacturers prescribed 10k or 15k miles on them?
Also with 20W 50, your oil pump will be getting weaker by the day and this is what will degrade your bearings and/or crankshaft.

I have the same Camry 06 which I uses 5W 30 advanced full synthetic since mid 2019 I bought it as toks and if I'm coming behind you, I have to make use of horn for you to know a car is at your back.
Even cars brought in from Qatar uses same factory recommended 5W 30.
That is why cars imported with over 250k miles still runs quietly and the one with 135k miles in Nigeria already sounding like grounding machine.

xperiencelove:

Is your engine still run quietly as it was when it was bought as Tokunbo?
Why changing oil every 2k miles when you can buy an advance synthetic oil that will last 6k-8k miles even when manufacturers prescribed 10k or 15k miles on them?
Also with 20W 50, your oil pump will be getting weaker by the day and this is what will degrade your bearings and/or crankshaft.

I have the same Camry 06 which I uses 5W 30 advanced full synthetic since mid 2019 I bought it as toks and if I'm coming behind you, I have to make use of horn for you to know a car is at your back.
Even cars brought in from Qatar uses same factory recommended 5W 30.
That is why cars imported with over 250k miles still runs quietly and the one with 135k miles in Nigeria already sounding like grounding machine.

Carlmax:


Just got the car some months back, this will be my first time servicing it. All the 5w-30 I see online are about 15k upwards.