₦airaland Forum

Afam4eva:
I'm sure we're not new to the whole Ikwerre-Igbo argument and this has been going for so long and nobody from either places are ready to concede. I'm here to tell you why.

I will start by stating my personal opinion on the matter.

If you have followed me on Nairaland, you will know that in the earlier years of Nairaland, I felt it was stupid not to think of Ikwerre as Igbo but in recent years, I've changed my perception which is not to discount the Ikwerre and Igbo link but rather to concede the fact that people have the right to call themselves what they so choose. I mean, it can be insulting to tell someone who they are even though they claim otherwise. It doesn't matter the reason why such a person thinks he's not Igbo whether factual or plain lies. Afteral Ethnic Groups are to a large extent an artificial creation.

Now, back to my argument...

The reason most Ikwerres say they are not Igbo is visible the moment you cross Ore(in Yorubaland). It is evident that it was not only Igbo groups that were not centralized. Even around Edo state where you had the famous Benin empire, that was what it was, an empire. However, some different groups in that empire did not see themselves as coming from the same stock. That is why despite the glaring similarities between Bini and Esan, they are distinct groups despite being in the same state.

It is the same story in Delta state where despite the closeness in language between Urhobos and Isokos, they are classed as 2 different groups when one could be a dialect of the other.

Akwa Ibom and Cross River is another typical example. When you hear people speaking languages from those 2 states which most Nigerians call 'Calabar', it sounds pretty the same but people from the groups will tel you that they are either Efik, Ibibio, Annang or even Oron.

So, with these examples, you can see that a lot of these groups were not centralized and as such do not favour coming together to form a large formidable group.

The same thing can be said of Ikwerre and some other Igboid groups that distance themselves from the Igbo tag. They see Igbos the way isokos see Urhobos and the same way Efiiks see Ibibios. They know they have a lot of similarities with each other but they have created an identity no matter how little and that is why they would rather be their own group.

Having said that, there's a small difference in the relationship between urhobos and Isokos, Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs to the relationship between Igbos and Ikwerres.

While the former groupps are to a large extent cordial to each other, it's a tricky situation between Igbos and Ikwerres. Yes, Igbos and Ikwerres mix, marry and all but Ikwerres have the feeling that Igbo want to dominate them. They could be right or wrong but you can't exactly false that entire premise because they can't really understand why Igbos can't let them be who they want to be without forcing it down their throat.

That's why a lot of Ikwerres who can speak central Igbo are even wary of speaking of Speaking Igbo to Igbo people because that may make whoever they're speaking it with think that they're Igbos. That's why you notice that Ikwerres find every possible thing to further move away from the Igbo tag. Even if it means claiming to have migrated from Benin.

So, in conclusion, Ikwerre could be an Igbo dialect in another universe but the way things stand right now, it's almost impossible and their wish to be called Ikwerres should not be disrespected.

Afam4eva:
I'm sure we're not new to the whole Ikwerre-Igbo argument and this has been going for so long and nobody from either places are ready to concede. I'm here to tell you why.

I will start by stating my personal opinion on the matter.

If you have followed me on Nairaland, you will know that in the earlier years of Nairaland, I felt it was stupid not to think of Ikwerre as Igbo but in recent years, I've changed my perception which is not to discount the Ikwerre and Igbo link but rather to concede the fact that people have the right to call themselves what they so choose. I mean, it can be insulting to tell someone who they are even though they claim otherwise. It doesn't matter the reason why such a person thinks he's not Igbo whether factual or plain lies. Afteral Ethnic Groups are to a large extent an artificial creation.

Now, back to my argument...

The reason most Ikwerres say they are not Igbo is visible the moment you cross Ore(in Yorubaland). It is evident that it was not only Igbo groups that were not centralized. Even around Edo state where you had the famous Benin empire, that was what it was, an empire. However, some different groups in that empire did not see themselves as coming from the same stock. That is why despite the glaring similarities between Bini and Esan, they are distinct groups despite being in the same state.

It is the same story in Delta state where despite the closeness in language between Urhobos and Isokos, they are classed as 2 different groups when one could be a dialect of the other.

Akwa Ibom and Cross River is another typical example. When you hear people speaking languages from those 2 states which most Nigerians call 'Calabar', it sounds pretty the same but people from the groups will tel you that they are either Efik, Ibibio, Annang or even Oron.

So, with these examples, you can see that a lot of these groups were not centralized and as such do not favour coming together to form a large formidable group.

The same thing can be said of Ikwerre and some other Igboid groups that distance themselves from the Igbo tag. They see Igbos the way isokos see Urhobos and the same way Efiiks see Ibibios. They know they have a lot of similarities with each other but they have created an identity no matter how little and that is why they would rather be their own group.

Having said that, there's a small difference in the relationship between urhobos and Isokos, Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs to the relationship between Igbos and Ikwerres.

While the former groupps are to a large extent cordial to each other, it's a tricky situation between Igbos and Ikwerres. Yes, Igbos and Ikwerres mix, marry and all but Ikwerres have the feeling that Igbo want to dominate them. They could be right or wrong but you can't exactly false that entire premise because they can't really understand why Igbos can't let them be who they want to be without forcing it down their throat.

That's why a lot of Ikwerres who can speak central Igbo are even wary of speaking of Speaking Igbo to Igbo people because that may make whoever they're speaking it with think that they're Igbos. That's why you notice that Ikwerres find every possible thing to further move away from the Igbo tag. Even if it means claiming to have migrated from Benin.

So, in conclusion, Ikwerre could be an Igbo dialect in another universe but the way things stand right now, it's almost impossible and their wish to be called Ikwerres should not be disrespected.

TAO11:
You seem to be expecting too much from a clown. Lol.

On the second or third page of this thread, I did provide more evidence like “Oba Jayin” and “Oba M’ Oro”, among others — cited from S. Johnson’s work which was evidently completed in 1897.

I also cited “Dom Obá II” — an epithet of the Afro-Brazilian grandson of the then Alaafin Oyo, Cândido da Fonseca Galvão (1845 — 1890).

Moreover, Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther’s 1884 Yoruba translation of the Bible is littered with “oba” for “king”.

In fact, a 1666 French translation of a Coptic text which Cheikh Anta Diop cites in his “African Origin of Civilization” is shown to have retained the original “Obba” for “King” in relation to a certain king Chango said to be born in Ife.

Yet, we are still waiting to see just one pre-1900 writing showing the Binis’ use of “oba” for their monarch.

Inferiority complex is a terrible thing!

michelz:
Your point is very clear.
However, what doesn't sit right is intentional revisionism of history.
Ikwerres don't speak an Igboid language; they speak Igbo. In fact,they speak raw unadulterated Igbo even considering the various "non-Igbo" ethnic groups they have mingled with for years.
When you speak Igbo, your culture, customs and the names of your villages are Igbo,your surname is Igbo,then only a fool would need to be told that he is Igbo.
I don't begrudge them of claiming to come from wherever, but the burden lies on them to keep on explaining to an Hausa,Yoruba or other foreigners how they are not Igbo but migrated several centuries ago from who knows where.

Afam4eva:
This same thing you said about Ikwere and Igbo, just replace it with Urhobo and Isoko or
Efik and Ibibio so that you can understand where i'm coming. That's not to say that you don't have a point in your assessment of the situation. But like i said Ikwerre people do not see it with the same eyes that Igbos see it. Why you may think all "Bia" speaking people or people who call God all the variations of Chi/Chukwu should be Igbo, Ikwerres do not have that same school of thought. As far as they know, every village can be a tribe. Little wonder Rivers state has one of the largest concentration of ethnic groups even though most of those ethnic groups understand each other to some extent.

Re: Mixed Tribes by ibibiogrl: 1 year & 8 months
Aloy.Emeka:
No difference. Efiks and ibibios are the same. Both understand each others dialect, same language, similar culture and very tiny differences. Even the neighboring igbo don't know the difference. Efiks and ibibios are the least violent specie of Nigerians.

There are many differences between Efik and Ibibio, difference in dressing Efik wear a gown and Elaborate hair dress etc. Ibibio tie 2 wrappers with a blouse, like most south easterners but without coral beads. Also difference in marriage traditions, Efiks coach the bride to be in fattening rooms and there are ceremonies before the actual marriage, ibibios don't. Efik traditions is Rule by Ekpe secret society, Ibibio don't have Ekpe, different traditional gods and different greetings. There are many other differences, the only similarity between Efik and Ibibio is the food and language; although most young Ibibios growing up in Akwa Ibom will only understand a little Efik in the future, since Efik language isn't used in Akwa Ibom.
The most similar ethnic group in Akwa Ibom to Efik is Oron. Please refer to this websites for pictures;
Efik http://esopefik.tripod.com/efiktradition.html and Efik https://www.nairaland.com/478074/post-pictures-traditional-weddings/10
Ibibio https://www.nairaland.com/478074/post-pictures-traditional-weddings/16

ibibiogrl:
How Many Times am I going to explain to people like you, that Efiik & Ibibio are not the same due to different cultural, traditions, original beliefs, infact the languages aren't that similar; except you consider French & Spanish the same
The only group that U can compare to Ibibio is Eket, whom are like ikwerre and Igbo, but they don't deny being Ibibio. They consider themselves subgroup of Ibibio.
Oron is the most similar group to Efiik in Akwa Ibom State, they also acknowledge their relationship with Efiks. So if Oron sharing same state with Ibibio aren't even similar, how much more Efik in another state
   Again Here are the differences between Efik and Ibibio

Just as Efik and Ibibio differs Annang also has same differences, but Ananng dress more like the ibibios.
Read more details in difference in this thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/609355/whats-major-differance-igbo-people

Afam4eva:
I'm not saying that they are exactly the same.

But I have a simple question: Can an Efik person understand what an Ibibio person is saying and vice-versa?

Afam4eva:
I'm not saying that they are exactly the same.
But I have a simple question: Can an Efik person understand what an Ibibio person is saying and vice-versa?

Comparison to Spanish/French/Italian in greeting, How are you?
Annang: Atie die?/Atie lie? Ibibio: Aba die? Efik: Etie didie? (die pronounce as Dear)

Spanish: Cómo estás? French: Comment ça va? Italian : Come sta ?

More details;
  Words could be similar like English: I cannot, Annang: Nkarake, Ibibio: Nkanna, Efik :Nkemeke.
Words can also be completely different like English:feces, Annang:Afid, Ibibio:Uduang, Efik:IfVO.
 
Example of sentences- English:-1) My house is were we all are/We're all in my house.  2) This is my house
  Annang:-1) Ilung Ida ke afide ajid itie. 2)Ilung ida ade ami
  Ibibio: 1) Ufok mmi ke afit nyin iba. 2) Ufok mmi ado mi
Efik:-1) Ebiet Idung mmi ke kpukpru nyin idu. 2) Ebiet idung mmi edi emi.

ibibiogrl:
@Afam4eva
U can clearly see the differences here in dressing.

ibibiogrl:
They Are Not the same at all, they don't share origin or traditions like Ikwerre & Igbo.
As for the languages, they can understand each other to an extent, just like a Spanish person can understand Italian, except they've lived in each other region, before they can understand more.
Having lived in Calabar & Abak, I can explain these in more details.

So you can now see these differences in languages and judge for yourself if they can understand each other.

Omanambala:
Nnaa, I don't think Efik and Ibibbio see eye to eye ooo....lol

Afam4eva:
I'm not saying that they are exactly the same.

But I have a simple question: Can an Efik person understand what an Ibibio person is saying and vice-versa?

ibibiogrl:
How Many Times am I going to explain to people like you, that Efiik & Ibibio are not the same due to different cultural, traditions, original beliefs, infact the languages aren't that similar; except you consider French & Spanish the same
The only group that U can compare to Ibibio is Eket, whom are like ikwerre and Igbo, but they don't deny being Ibibio. They consider themselves subgroup of Ibibio.
Oron is the most similar group to Efiik in Akwa Ibom State, they also acknowledge their relationship with Efiks. So if Oron sharing same state with Ibibio aren't even similar, how much more Efik in another state
   Again Here are the differences between Efik and Ibibio

Just as Efik and Ibibio differs Annang also has same differences, but Ananng dress more like the ibibios.
Read more details in difference in this thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/609355/whats-major-differance-igbo-people

KingOKON:
.
What is this,do you call this a true indigenous African Ibibio/Efik traditional marriage attire?
When did people start wearing white long sleeve shirts and imported materials fit for curtains and furnitures as traditional marriage attires?
In the above picture the only original traditional thing is the rod being held by the woman every other thing up there is totally non-indegenous
The original maiden dressing for marriage consists of beads, cloth wrap around the bossom and waist
A man is only to tie a wrapper, the above picture is a complete dilution

KingOKON:
.
Go to Enugu state UDI local government area to be precise, in one local government they speak three variant of Igbo language that those within this council don't have common understanding
My host don't don't understand the dialect of somebody in his local government and you are using 3local government bigger 10 times than UDI local to base your judgment
Have you stayed outside Akwacross for just 1 week?

ibibiogrl:
Actually I was born & have spent half of my life living in America, this isn't hidden from my post history
Where did I use 3 LGA Are you comparing Calabar & Abak to LGA in the same state
Despite using Okon I doubt you are from the Akwa Ibom or Cross River State areas This your example of using dialects LGA areas in Enugu has exposed U, no wonder you keep arguing ridiculously
I will try to explain in case you truly care to learn. I'm Ibibio as U already know, my relatives & majority of ibibios only a bit of Annang, most don't. More understand Efik more as Efik was the official language used in the old Cross River State that included Akwa Ibom State. But even those ibibios & Annangs who understand Efik may not be able to speak fluently, except they grew up in Calabar.
That's Y I stated that I have lived in Calabar and Abak, so that helped me to understand & speak Annang and Efik more than an average Ibibio person.
Annang has 3-4 dialect that's unintelligible to others who aren't Annang. E.g. Ikot Ekpene dialect stresses the P, ukanafun dialect L& some R, there are others that stress R..
Ibibio also has several dialects, including dialect that's unintelligible to others e.g. Itumbonuso, even Eket can be considered as an Ibibio dialect.
But I still wrote that language and food is the only similar aspect between Efik, Ibibios & Annangs.
Efik share culture with Ejagham, who are also in Cameroun. Are you going to argue that Ibibio & Annang are the same as Ejagham

KingOKON:
.
Better you remain in America since you absolute lack knowledge of anything outside the Ibibio Annang Efik triangle

KingOKON:
.
You really have to do something more deeper not this yesterday westernized culture, something truly original

ibibiogrl:
Really what have contributed except your ridiculous arguments

What is westernized culture Again you should Go back and Read those links that I've posted, to learn more about Efik traditions, including the meaning behind different outfits, it's not as westernized as U think

ibibiogrl:
@Afam4eva
U can clearly see the differences here in dressing.

KingOKON:
.
Dressing... can you take a wild guess where you think this guy is from?

ibibiogrl:
And where do you think the couple in my picture example are from
Let me tell you they are both (bride & groom) from Akwa Ibom. The bride is Ibibio while the groom is from Okobo a part of Oron. They did both traditions that's Y they are dressed to represent both cultures.
Oron in Akwa Ibom share cultures and are related to Efik, even Uruans a part of Ibibio have some relationship with Efik.
Those 2groups in Akwa Ibom State have never denied their relationship with Efiks in Calabar and vice versa. So this man in this picture could be from any of those groups in Akwa Ibom State.

KingOKON:
.
I am not interested where they are from rather I don't know where you got your facts about Ibibio/Efik bride/groom dressing
The pics depicting the dressing for an Ibibio groom is fallacious same with the bride.
The original Efiks were Uruans in origin

ibibiogrl:
And you know this because you are an Efik or Uruan or the historian from those groups
I don't know why you keep quoting me, if you have noticed on my post history, the Efiks & Orons, etc agree with me. But I'm wondering why you an outsider has continued to argue about their history & origin. I already gave you several links to some thread to go there and argue with the Efiks themselves, but U refused, following me about
I wonder how you would feel if a stranger argues with you and tries to Convince you that U are not from your village & Ur parent are not your real parent, U who don't even know the basic differences between Efik and Annang & Ibibio.. But U are an expert on their histories & Origin.
Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efik_people) has finally written down the full migratory origin of Efik and the other groups like Oron. These groups still have some of their relatives currently located in Cameroun & even Congo(Oron), where they originally migrated from. Just because they temporary stop by Uruan, doesn't mean that it's their original origin. I suggest you go there and Read. If you still doubt that go back to the links I shared including the esopefik.tripod.com & ask them their origin or try to convince them that they are from Uruan

KingOKON:
.
I don't do Wikipedia especially when it comes to anything concerning the history of Africa and whats my business with group having Identity issues in this time and age when DNAs and many scientific techniques exist over feel good tales
My major concern is the pics where you outrightly classified one as Ibibio and another Efik
Where did you get such authority from,
The elders, village councils or where?
What even makes you think you know anything deeper aside using this diluted culture and whatever as your yardstick for who is who
Those pics are nothing but fallacious it represents nothing

ibibiogrl:
And where do you get the authority to label the guy whom U ask me to guess where he was from What has DNA got to do with ibibios and Efiks who know their ancient histories or any indigenous people of Nigeria
Looks like I've been waisting my time trying explaining to a really Slow person So as you thought that I just found a random picture online and posted here as an example Didn't U read where I wrote that; the groom was from Okobo while the bride was from Ibibio, & they did both traditions to represent their different cultures. U think I just made that up Don't U know that these are people I know especially the Ibibio bride
So as I'm calling myself Ibibiogrl, I don't have the authority to label myself that, even though I am %100 Ibibio, knowing my family history & my great great grandparents on both sides, who were Ibibio with a street name after my grandfather in Uyo my village. Yet according to your logic I've to get a DNA test to find out my family history.

KingOKON:
.
You showed the world pics claiming one is Ibibio another Efik becsuse of the way they dressed,where did you get the audacity to say such nonsense?

ibibiogrl:
U have been the one talking nonsense & arguing like a Retard & I've been waisting my time trying to explain as slowly as I can
I told you I know the couple in real life & told you that they did & represented their both traditions on their traditional marriage. Are you actually Nigerian Am asking because I'm not sure, with you taking about DNA test Because if you are truly Nigerian, you would know that when 2 different ethnic group/tribes marry each other, they conduct both traditions together.
Just like former governor of Cross River State Xerona Duke married a Yoruba groom and had to change up later to her husband's traditional attire, when they both began wearing Efik traditional attire. They even included the bride's mom's Kalahari tradition.
https://www.nairaland.com/4452946/photos-traditional-wedding-ex-gov-donald

KingOKON:
.
Nigerian ethnic groups that traces their origin with more nothing less than 4 different accounts? Especially tales from the Bible lands
Stop getting worked up and answer the simple question
Who told you by that useless pictures you posted, that this is Ibibio and the other is Efik?
Your grandfather or your village council?
Show me a picture of how your father and grandfather was dressed during their marriage?
Stop telling us irrelevant tales and answer the questions?

ibibiogrl:
U are the Useless Retard Don't Quote Me Again!