₦airaland Forum

FERNANDEZISBACK:
And you think if I created people I will just seat and watch the people who [b]serve me [/b]die horribly for nothing?
You should be giving reasons why he is doing nothing not your talk.. SW

When you accuse God of allowing horrible things to happen, you are already assuming the existence of evil.

If you assume the existence of evil then you are also implying the existence of good.

If you assume the existence of good and evil, then you are also assuming a standard or a law by which you determine what is good or evil.

If you assume the existence of such a law, then you are also assuming the existence of a law giver.

As an atheist, who would you say determines what is good or evil? By which law are you judging some things to be good and some things to be horrible?

JustforMen:
If a father values a son and has given the child a freedom to make his own choices.

If the father has given his son the tools and resources to be independent, then the father should trust the child to make the right choices without interference.

If the father is just, he will have to let the scenerio play out and justice meted out according to the consequences of the choices that are freely made.

And are you saying there are no persons who believe in him and pray to him but still die horribly?
Is that also watching scenerio play out?

I thought you don't feed a kid to a lion just cos the kid is disobedient..

FERNANDEZISBACK:
And are you saying there are no persons who believe in him and pray to him but still die horribly?
Is that also watching scenerio play out?

YES, because by definition, God is all-knowing, all-seeing and omnipresent whose ways cannot be fully comprehended by my mortal mind except for what He has revealed to me.

serving God doesn't prevent pain and death but it actually makes one yield to God's will and purpose.

As a believer, I believe God has a plan that I might not necessarily understand fully now but it will be revealed at God's appointed time.

Because God is all-knowing, He might allow things that you and I might consider painful or death but it could be for a greater purpose that He alone knows. Remember,God is all knowing.

JustforMen:
YES, because by definition, God is all-knowing, all-seeing and omnipresent whose ways cannot be fully comprehended by my mortal mind except for what He has revealed to me.

serving God doesn't prevent pain and death but it actually makes one yield to God's will and purpose.

As a believer, I believe God has a plan that I might not necessarily understand fully now but it will be revealed at God's appointed time.

Because God is all-knowing, He might allow things that you and I might consider painful or death but it could be for a greater purpose that He alone knows. Remember,God is all knowing.

What kind of weird thinking is this tho?
Cos it was written in a book that he is this and that you never stood up to question yourself?

Your God acts like a dictator which ain't supposed to be so..you don't hurt people just cos you are Superior..that's exactly what your God is doing..

FERNANDEZISBACK:
What kind of weird thinking is this tho?
Cos it was written in a book that he is this and that you never stood up to question yourself?

Your God acts like a dictator which ain't supposed to be so..you don't hurt people just cos you are Superior..that's exactly what your God is doing..

It is not weird thinking at all.

A God that gives you the will to choose your actions and consequences cannot be said to be a dictator, Can He?

I thought dictators take a way people's wills and choices.

God gives us the choices to do what we choose after defining what is good and evil. The choices we make determine the consequences we get. And ultimately, He will judge over the affairs of men. This sounds like justice to me.

Interestingly, the standards of good and evil are only found within the context of a belief in in a law giver whom I have logically argued is God.

Justice is not evil, is it?

JustforMen:
It is not weird thinking at all.

A God that gives you the will to choose your actions and consequences cannot be said to be a dictator, Can He?

I thought dictators take a way people's wills and choices.

God gives us the choices to do what we choose after defining what is good and evil. The choices we make determine the consequences we get. And ultimately, He will judge over the affairs of men. This sounds like justice to me.

Interestingly, the standards of good and evil are only found within the context of a belief in in a law giver whom I have logically argued is God.

Justice is not evil, is it?

I am still referring to his children who serve him fervently and still die/killed..
Was he watching or he just doesn't care..

FERNANDEZISBACK:
I am still referring to his children who serve him fervently and still die/killed..
Was he watching or he just doesn't care..

So death is not such a bad thing if you believe in a reality after death.
Death is actually the only way to depart this world and it is also inevitable.
People that serve God should actually look forward to meeting Him and should not fear the journey.
More comforting is the knowledge that a just God will adequately reward each according to their works.

So for you that do not believe in God, how do you explain death, suffering and pain?
What is the meaning of life for you?

JustforMen:
So death is not such a bad thing if you believe in a reality after death.
Death is actually the only way to depart this world and it is also inevitable.
People that serve God should actually look forward to meeting Him and should not fear the journey.
More comforting is the knowledge that a just God will adequately reward each according to their works.

So for you that do not believe in God, how do you explain death, suffering and pain?
What is the meaning of life for you?

Yeah we are supposed to die ain't we? but saying things like "you are alive cos of God is quite funny if i must say"..

We all are supposed to die but when people now say their God is merciful and love his children then he shouldn't allow them to die horribly if truly he loved them..

FERNANDEZISBACK:
Yeah we are supposed to die ain't we? but saying things like "you are alive cos of God is quite funny if i must say"..

We all are supposed to die but when people now say their God is merciful and love his children then he shouldn't allow them to die horribly if truly he loved them..

If you believe that you came to life through creation then it makes perfect sense to say one is alive because of God.
On the other hand, God has been and is being merciful for without His mercies we all would have worse outcomes than we have now.
A lot of times we encounter circumstances that defy logic and the natural laws of physics and the universe. I am sure you have such experiences in your personal life that defy all known physical laws.
In such cases, my dear we clearly see the imprint of God's merciful hand on our situations.
For example, who decides who dies and when death should come?
Part of having faith and believing in God is accepting the limitation of our mortality. Accepting the fact that we cannot fully comprehend the mind of God beyond what is revealed.
The struggle of those who claim to be atheists is that they claim to know with certainty what they obviously don't know and they lack the humility to accept the limitation of their mortality. Worse still they attribute their irrational belief to superior intellect.
How can you believe with certainty that there is no God and still believe with certainty that the whole universe and all the intricate precise operations of the universe originated from nothing?
I think a more rational position is that of the agnostic who does not know if God exists or He doesn't.

JustforMen:
If you believe that you came to life through creation then it makes perfect sense to say one is alive because of God.
On the other hand, God has been and is being merciful for without His mercies we all would have worse outcomes than we have now.
A lot of times we encounter circumstances that defy logic and the natural laws of physics and the universe. I am sure you have such experiences in your personal life that defy all known physical laws.
In such cases, my dear we clearly see the imprint of God's merciful hand on our situations.
For example, who decides who dies and when death should come?
Part of having faith and believing in God is accepting the limitation of our mortality. Accepting the fact that we cannot fully comprehend the mind of God beyond what is revealed.
The struggle of those who claim to be atheists is that they claim to know with certainty what they obviously don't know and they lack the humility to accept the limitation of their mortality. Worse still they attribute their irrational belief to superior intellect.
How can you believe with certainty that there is no God and still believe with certainty that the whole universe and all the intricate precise operations of the universe originated from nothing?
I think a more rational position is that of the agnostic who does not know if God exists or He doesn't.

Great explanation but I still have that doubt that he does..

FERNANDEZISBACK:
Great explanation but I still have that doubt that he does..

And your doubt is totally rational and I fully respect your position.
It is not black and white, I admit sometimes it is counter intuitive.
But there is a sound rational and logical basis for belief in the existence of God.
Belief in God is actually a journey not a destination.


I should also add that I appreciate the very matured and rational manner in which you argued your position on this issue. you have my unreserved respect and warm regards. gracias

JustforMen:
And your doubt is totally rational and I fully respect your position.
It is not black and white, I admit sometimes it is counter intuitive.
But there is a sound rational and logical basis for belief in the existence of God.
Belief in God is actually a journey not a destination.

FERNANDEZISBACK:

I should also add that I appreciate the very matured and rational manner in which you argued your position on this issue. you have my unreserved respect and warm regards. gracias

JustforMen:
I should also add that I appreciate the very matured and rational manner in which you argued your position on this issue. you have my unreserved respect and warm regards. gracias

Thanks so much tho..I really wasn't expecting us to go this far..

Thanks I really appreciate..