₦airaland Forum

MrDebonair:
You need to go and read your Bible again. Find out those that were sealed. 144,000.
You mean to say the dead in Christ who will rise first and those of us still alive will be caught up in the cloud to meet Jesus will go through the tribulation/ great tribulation?
Post tribulation rapture doctrine is for those who don't understand the Bible passages and connect the dots.

As per the bolded.

That is the FIRST resurrection. (The dead in Christ will rise up first)... the Mystery is.... (those still alive will be caught up, otherwise known as rapture).

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


There are two resurrection. Any person whom misses the first, is likely a candidate of destruction in the lake of fire (2nd resurrection into the white throne judgement)

Jokerman:
Where in the Bible is two comings mentioned?? Because according to Angels, Apostles and the Lord Jesus himself, he's coming back just once! I.e the second coming.

So where are two comings from?

The first coming is for the rapture of the faithful saints. In this coming, he will not be seen by all and he will not land on the earth.

The faithful saints will be caught up to meet him in the air - 1st Thessalonians 4:13-16.

The second one which will normally referred to as the second coming of Christ will happen after the revelation of the anti Christ.

In this event, he will come visibly and he will land on the earth at the end of seven years tribulation period which the Jews will go through. However, a selected few; 144,000 Jews will be raptured. These are the elect he spoke about in Matthew 24.

When he comes, he will fight with the anti Christ and defeat him after which he will establish his millennium reign on earth.

Ken4Christ:
The first coming is for the rapture of the faithful saints. In this coming, he will not be seen by all and he will not land on the earth.

The faithful saints will be caught up to meet him in the air - 1st Thessalonians 4:13-16.

The second one which will normally referred to as the second coming of Christ will happen after the revelation of the anti Christ.

In this event, he will come visibly and he will land on the earth at the end of seven years tribulation period which the Jews will go through. However, a selected few; 144,000 Jews will be raptured. These are the elect he spoke about in Matthew 24.

When he comes, he will fight with the anti Christ and defeat him after which he will establish his millennium reign on earth.

Where in the bible is it written that Jesus will not be seen by all??

Because everywhere in the bible says when he comes, all eyes shall see him

Jokerman:
Where in the bible is it written that Jesus will not be seen by all??

Because everywhere in the bible says when he comes, all eyes shall see him

All eyes shall see him is with reference to his second coming.

In actual sense, the rapture of the church is not regarded as a coming of Christ. He will only descend as low as the clouds or sky.

And we will be caught to meet him in the air.

Hear the narration of the rapture below;

1st Thessalonians 4:16-17.

16 For the LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Our Lord Jesus will not come down to the earth during the rapture. It's a secret mission. He will take just the faithful and spotless saints away.

Those who didn't make it will go through the great tribulation. But if they maintain their confession of faith in Christ and repent of whatever they did that stopped them from making the rapture, they will still make it. But they will all be persecuted to death.

These tribulation Saints who made it are the ones seen in Revelation 7:14-17.

The raptured saints are the four beast or four living creatures before the Throne of God. They made it first.

The second coming of Christ will take place much later after the anti Christ has been revealed.

“Pre rapture” fantasy is just that. Dangerous wishful thinking.

Where is this “secret” rapture denoted in the scriptures. I guess it must be “secretly” read into the passages, eh? LOL!!

[/b]At this point, YOU are in huge DENIAL.

[b]What my biggest concern, is that people like you will be VERY shocked and disappointed when antichrist emerges, great Tribulation begins and YOU are still in earth.

YOU are at huge risk of giving up your faith and taking the mark of beast! Prepare your mind to go thru great Tribulation! I beg you!

Remember this thread warning you! No excuse that no one showed you.

PREPARE for WAR! It is coming!

Denial means YOU are unprepared!

Unprepared= failure

Ken4Christ:
All eyes shall see him is with reference to his second coming.

In actual sense, the rapture of the church is not regarded as a coming of Christ. He will only descend as low as the clouds or sky.

And we will be caught to meet him in the air.

Hear the narration of the rapture below;

1st Thessalonians 4:16-17.

16 For the LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Our Lord Jesus will not come down to the earth during the rapture. It's a secret mission. He will take just the faithful and spotless saints away.

Those who didn't make it will go through the great tribulation. But if they maintain their confession of faith in Christ and repent of whatever they did that stopped them from making the rapture, they will still make it. But they will all be persecuted to death.

These tribulation Saints who made it are the ones seen in Revelation 7:14-17.

The raptured saints are the four beast or four living creatures before the Throne of God. They made it first.

The second coming of Christ will take place much later after the anti Christ has been revealed.

Look at it this way:

PREPARE yourself to endure the great tribulation. Nothing to loose for being prepared If it turns out, you get “raptured” ( or most likely you will die first).

However, If you find yourself UNPREPARED AND here during the great tribulation, THEN you run risk of loosing to the Antichrist spirit. THIS for eternity, no 2nd chances once you take the mark.

THIS is beyond stupidity to toy with eternity.

Prepare yourself!!! Wake up to this satanic delusions called “pre tribulation” rapture!

Ken4Christ:
The first coming is for the rapture of the faithful saints. In this coming, he will not be seen by all and he will not land on the earth.

The faithful saints will be caught up to meet him in the air - 1st Thessalonians 4:13-16.

The second one which will normally referred to as the second coming of Christ will happen after the revelation of the anti Christ.

In this event, he will come visibly and he will land on the earth at the end of seven years tribulation period which the Jews will go through. However, a selected few; 144,000 Jews will be raptured. These are the elect he spoke about in Matthew 24.

When he comes, he will fight with the anti Christ and defeat him after which he will establish his millennium reign on earth.

Me myself and I are determined that if I am alive when great tribulation begins:

-I will go out there and shine boldly with the gospel of salvation. Not cower inside!

-I will rather die of thirst, hunger, cold and body parts cut off…Than take the mark and loose my soul for eternity.

-If push comes to shove, I will voluntarily throw/put my self in a situation where I will be martyed for proclaiming Yeshua. My mind, body and spirit are prepared for that—-even NOW!!!

Why?

Because, Revelation 20 assures me those who are martyred for Yeshua and those who survive the beast WILL co-rule and co-reign with Christ in the new Jerusalem in the new millennial for ETERNITY .

And I will be rewarded fulsomely come judgement day!

Don’t you want to be an important someone in the life to come?! Like a president or better yet, a close cabinet in the presidential congress of the almighty ELOHIM.

I DO!!!! That is why I want to be martyred for HIS sake.

My life here is so insignificant but I will live small here to live big in the next life.

I cannot think of a better incentive to want to die for Yeshua rather than wish for escapism.

THINK about it! It will help you snap out of escapism called pre-tribulation rapture.

Be bold to (want) to suffer for Yeshua so you can rule with HIM in the life to come!

You also made another mistake

SeraphEl:
Look at it this way:

PREPARE yourself to endure the great tribulation. Nothing to loose for being prepared If it turns out, you get “raptured” ( or most likely you will die first).

However, If you find yourself UNPREPARED AND here during the great tribulation, THEN you run risk of loosing to the Antichrist spirit. THIS for eternity, no 2nd chances once you take the mark.

THIS is beyond stupidity to toy with eternity.

Prepare yourself!!! Wake up to this satanic delusions called “pre tribulation” rapture!

1st Thassalonians 5:9
For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Tribulation period is a time of wrath, the full wrath upon those who are in the faith. But the scripture says God has not appointed us to experience wrath.

Another verse reads;

1 st Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, WHICH DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME.

The verse above is another confirmation. It says that we have been delivered from the wrath to come.

The raptured saints were already in heaven before the tribulation period. They are the four beast before the Throne of God. Their identity was clearly revealed in Revelation 5:9.

The beast that looks like a lion is the early church

The one that looks like a calf is the church during the period idolatry crept into the church.

The fourth that looks like a man is the church during the time of reformation.

The last beast that looks like an eagle is the present day church. This is the church that will witness the rapture.

The tribulation saints later joined them in Revelation 7:14-17.

The anti Christ will only show up after the ministry of the two witnesses in Revelation chapter 11 ends. And these two witnesses will carry out their ministry for about three and a half years.

The anti Christ shows up in Revelation 13.

The events in the book of Revelation are written in chronological order. Only chapter 12 is excluded from the chronology of events because it just unveils what conflict between the devil and the kingdom of light that has been from ages past.

SeraphEl:
“Pre rapture” fantasy is just that. Dangerous wishful thinking.

Where is this “secret” rapture denoted in the scriptures. I guess it must be “secretly” read into the passages, eh? LOL!!

[/b]At this point, YOU are in huge DENIAL.

[b]What my biggest concern, is that people like you will be VERY shocked and disappointed when antichrist emerges, great Tribulation begins and YOU are still in earth.

YOU are at huge risk of giving up your faith and taking the mark of beast! Prepare your mind to go thru great Tribulation! I beg you!

Remember this thread warning you! No excuse that no one showed you.

PREPARE for WAR! It is coming!

Denial means YOU are unprepared!

Unprepared= failure

The presence of the church is what is restraining the anti Christ from manifesting. The power in us is far above every principalities and power. He wants to operate unhindered. And he cannot carry out his ministry while we are still here.

Ken4Christ:
The presence of the church is what is restraining the anti Christ from manifesting. The power in us is far above every principalities and power. He wants to operate unhindered. And he cannot carry out his ministry while we are still here.

Was that what Paul wrote in Thessalonians?

Did he identify the church as the restrainer? When in 2 Thessalonians 2 v 1-4, Paul made it explicitly clear we would not be gathered unto Christ unless the man of lawlessness is revealed and declares himself to be God.

Ken4Christ:
1st Thassalonians 5:9
For God hath NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

Tribulation period is a time of wrath, the full wrath upon those who are in the faith. But the scripture says God has not appointed us to experience wrath.

Another verse reads;

1 st Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, WHICH DELIVERED US FROM THE WRATH TO COME.

The wrath to come in this context is God's wrath, this is different from Satan's wrath in Revelation 12 v 12-17. Those on earth that hold onto the testimony of Jesus and obey God's laws would face the great tribulation fueled by Satan's wrath.

A definition of the global church are those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus. Bearing in mind churches were named after the cities believers were resident in. So it's more convenient for the author to use "those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus" to describe the churches in various cities around the world.

OkCornel:
The wrath to come in this context is God's wrath, this is different from Satan's wrath in Revelation 12 v 12-17. Those on earth that hold onto the testimony of Jesus and obey God's laws would face the great tribulation fueled by Satan's wrath.

A definition of the global church are those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus. Bearing in mind churches were named after the cities believers were resident in. So it's more convenient for the author to use "those who hold onto the testimony of Jesus" to describe the churches in various cities around the world.

You are dull in understanding. The book of Revelation was written in chronological order. You must not hold on to preconceived opinions when evidences proves otherwise.

This is the order of events explicitly stated on the book of Revelation

1. The rapture of the church symbolized by the four beast - Revelation 5:9.
2. 144,000 Jews sealed for protection - Revelation 7:1-8
3. The great tribulation those who missed the rapture will go through - Revelation 7:9-17.

End of the Church Age

4. Seven Trumpet Judgment on the rulers and people who who persecuted the church.

Part 2 - God's dealing with the Jews resumes

5. Prophetic ministry of two witnesses - Revelation 11. It will last for three and a half years.
6. The witnesses are killed and they refuse to bury their bodies.
7. After three and a half days, they will rise from the dead and be caught up to heaven.

The Revelation of the Anti Christ

8. The anti Christ is revealed known as the first beast. He will rule from a confederalism of ten European countries. And the capital will be in Rome - Revelation 13
9. The false Christ is revealed known as the second beast or false Prophet.
10. He makes an image of the first beast and forces all on earth to worship him.
11. He will institute a mark of the beast and a number 666. It will be on your forehead or right hand. If you don't have it, you can't buy or see.
12. This is when the eyes of the Jews will be opened and they will refuse to worship the image.
13. Severe persecution will begin against the Jews. This is the Great tribulation Jesus talked about in Matthew 24. It is different from that of Revelation 7 which the church that was left behind pass through.
14. At the end of the Great tribulation Jesus will come back.
15. The 144,000 that were sealed in chapter 7 will be raptued. They are seen in heaven in Chapter 14.
16. Jesus will fight with the anti Christ and false Christ and defeat him.
17. They will be thrown into the Lake of fire alive.
18. There will be seven vial judgment on the seat of the anti Christ and those who received the mark of the beast.
18. Jesus will establish his Millennium Reign on earth

Let me stop here.

There are two separate great tribulation periods.
Three separate rapture periods which are;

1. The rapture of the church
2. The rapture of the two witnesses
3. The rapture of 144,000 Jews.

The first rapture will take place before the first great tribulation period.

The second rapture will take place at the end of the second tribulation period. This is the one Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24.

Instead of you to thank me for this exposition, you will still hold on to your opinions.
Therr

Ken4Christ:
You are dull in understanding. The book of Revelation was written in chronological order.

The one dull in understanding is the one who relies much more heavily on eisegesis to interpret the scriptures, rather than exegesis.
That being said, if the book of revelation is written in chronological order as you claimed, then Jesus would return multiple times, as indicated by the 6th seal (Revelation 6 v 12-17), the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11 v 15-19) and the 7th bowl of God's anger (Revelation 16 v 17-21).

The seals, trumpets and bowls are interwoven to form a linear timeline of events in the 42 months the beast and false prophet are persecuting God's holy people (those who keep God's laws and hold onto the testimony of Jesus)

Ken4Christ:
You must not hold on to preconceived opinions when evidences proves otherwise.

This is the order of events explicitly stated on the book of Revelation

1. The rapture of the church symbolized by the four beast - Revelation 5:9.

I think you should take your advice on holding onto preconceived notions. Where did Jesus, Apostle John or any of the Apostles or any of the Old/New Testament mention the four living creatures before God's throne are the church? Where?

I've repeated over and again, go the koine greek manuscript and directly interpret the words to English, word for word exactly as it's structured in the manuscript. Don't move the words around, so the truth is not twisted out of context. See the screenshot below, showing direct interpretation from Koine Greek without moving the words around. Again, see the screenshot. King James did not have the vision of the book of revelation, Apostle John did.

And your interpretation of the faces of the beast and how it relates to the church. where can we find this word of knowledge in the scriptures or early church manuscripts? Surely God must have revealed this to the prophets or the Apostles, or the disciples of the Apostles (Timothy, Mark, Origen, Ireneaus, Polycarp). Or is this your personal interpretation you are imposing on the scriptures?

Ken4Christ:
2. 144,000 Jews sealed for protection - Revelation 7:1-8
3. The great tribulation those who missed the rapture will go through - Revelation 7:9-17.

End of the Church Age

In the book of revelation, can you show us where the church was raptured (caught up) before the great tribulation?
Can you show us where John saw these "raptured believers" in heaven before the great tribulation commenced? Again, the four living creatures can never be the church, if you directly interpret from Koine Greek to English in the way the words are structured in the manuscript.

Ken4Christ:
4. Seven Trumpet Judgment on the rulers and people who who persecuted the church.

Part 2 - God's dealing with the Jews resumes

5. Prophetic ministry of two witnesses - Revelation 11. It will last for three and a half years.
6. The witnesses are killed and they refuse to bury their bodies.
7. After three and a half days, they will rise from the dead and be caught up to heaven.

The Revelation of the Anti Christ

8. The anti Christ is revealed known as the first beast. He will rule from a confederalism of ten European countries. And the capital will be in Rome - Revelation 13
9. The false Christ is revealed known as the second beast or false Prophet.
10. He makes an image of the first beast and forces all on earth to worship him.
11. He will institute a mark of the beast and a number 666. It will be on your forehead or right hand. If you don't have it, you can't buy or see.
12. This is when the eyes of the Jews will be opened and they will refuse to worship the image.
13. Severe persecution will begin against the Jews. This is the Great tribulation Jesus talked about in Matthew 24. It is different from that of Revelation 7 which the church that was left behind pass through.
14. At the end of the Great tribulation Jesus will come back.
15. The 144,000 that were sealed in chapter 7 will be raptued. They are seen in heaven in Chapter 14.
16. Jesus will fight with the anti Christ and false Christ and defeat him.
17. They will be thrown into the Lake of fire alive.
18. There will be seven vial judgment on the seat of the anti Christ and those who received the mark of the beast.
18. Jesus will establish his Millennium Reign on earth

Let me stop here.

There are two separate great tribulation periods.
Three separate rapture periods which are;

1. The rapture of the church
2. The rapture of the two witnesses
3. The rapture of 144,000 Jews.

The first rapture will take place before the first great tribulation period.

The second rapture will take place at the end of the second tribulation period. This is the one Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24.

Instead of you to thank me for this exposition, you will still hold on to your opinions.
Therr

3 raptures? two great tribulation periods? Like seriously?

OkCornel:
The one dull in understanding is the one who relies much more heavily on eisegesis to interpret the scriptures, rather than exegesis.
That being said, if the book of revelation is written in chronological order as you claimed, then Jesus would return multiple times, as indicated by the 6th seal (Revelation 6 v 12-17), the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11 v 15-19) and the 7th bowl of God's anger (Revelation 16 v 17-21).

The seals, trumpets and bowls are interwoven to form a linear timeline of events in the 42 months the beast and false prophet are persecuting God's holy people (those who keep God's laws and hold onto the testimony of Jesus)



I think you should take your advice on holding onto preconceived notions. Where did Jesus, Apostle John or any of the Apostles or any of the Old/New Testament mention the four living creatures before God's throne are the church? Where?

I've repeated over and again, go the koine greek manuscript and directly interpret the words to English, word for word exactly as it's structured in the manuscript. Don't move the words around, so the truth is not twisted out of context. See the screenshot below, showing direct interpretation from Koine Greek without moving the words around. Again, see the screenshot. King James did not have the vision of the book of revelation, Apostle John did.

And your interpretation of the faces of the beast and how it relates to the church. where can we find this word of knowledge in the scriptures or early church manuscripts? Surely God must have revealed this to the prophets or the Apostles, or the disciples of the Apostles (Timothy, Mark, Origen, Ireneaus, Polycarp). Or is this your personal interpretation you are imposing on the scriptures?


In the book of revelation, can you show us where the church was raptured (caught up) before the great tribulation?
Can you show us where John saw these "raptured believers" in heaven before the great tribulation commenced? Again, the four living creatures can never be the church, if you directly interpret from Koine Greek to English in the way the words are structured in the manuscript.



3 raptures? two great tribulation periods? Like seriously?

I won't waste my time on you. Hold on to what you believe. The most important thing is to be ready when Jesus comes. And be found faithful and spotless.

Ken4Christ:
I won't waste my time on you. Hold on to what you believe. The most important thing is to be ready when Jesus comes. And be found faithful and spotless.

The passage of time vindicates the truth and exposes falsehood.

We’ll see how it plays out at the end of days.

Ken4Christ:
All eyes shall see him is with reference to his second coming.

In actual sense, the rapture of the church is not regarded as a coming of Christ. He will only descend as low as the clouds or sky.

And we will be caught to meet him in the air.

Hear the narration of the rapture below;

1st Thessalonians 4:16-17.

16 For the LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Our Lord Jesus will not come down to the earth during the rapture. It's a secret mission. He will take just the faithful and spotless saints away.

Those who didn't make it will go through the great tribulation. But if they maintain their confession of faith in Christ and repent of whatever they did that stopped them from making the rapture, they will still make it. But they will all be persecuted to death.

These tribulation Saints who made it are the ones seen in Revelation 7:14-17.

The raptured saints are the four beast or four living creatures before the Throne of God. They made it first.

The second coming of Christ will take place much later after the anti Christ has been revealed.

Except you call Jesus Christ a liar!

Let's study Matthew 24, from the Lord's mouth...

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This is Jesus talking about the tribulation. Telling you Believers will be very much around during the tribulation, and also during the False prophet of the Antichrist


Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Jesus talking about the secret rapture theoryand tell us that it is a deception. Jesus also tell us gathering of the believers will be public


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now look at the timeline of events prior to the rapture. After tribulation, Son of Man appears in heaven, every one of earth will Mourn after witnessing Christ in the clouds, and then his angels will sound a trumpet to gather his elect


Who are his Elect?? The believers.; and also remember because of the elect, the tribulation days are shortened!

So make no mistake, nothing like secret rapture. Believers will face the antichrist. Nothing like tribulation Saints. The work of the antichrist is to make war with the saints and overcome them. How can someone who missed the rapture, be termed a Saint??

Also remember only the blood of Jesus can cleanse Man.... which pre tribulation echoers say won't be available after the rapture, so what blood will be saving the pre tribulation Saints then?

Jokerman:
Except you call Jesus Christ a liar!

Let's study Matthew 24, from the Lord's mouth...

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This is Jesus talking about the tribulation. Telling you Believers will be very much around during the tribulation, and also during the False prophet of the Antichrist


Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Jesus talking about the secret rapture theoryand tell us that it is a deception. Jesus also tell us gathering of the believers will be public


Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Now look at the timeline of events prior to the rapture. After tribulation, Son of Man appears in heaven, every one of earth will Mourn after witnessing Christ in the clouds, and then his angels will sound a trumpet to gather his elect


Who are his Elect?? The believers.; and also remember because of the elect, the tribulation days are shortened!

So make no mistake, nothing like secret rapture. Believers will face the antichrist. Nothing like tribulation Saints. The work of the antichrist is to make war with the saints and overcome them. How can someone who missed the rapture, be termed a Saint??

Also remember only the blood of Jesus can cleanse Man.... which pre tribulation echoers say won't be available after the rapture, so what blood will be saving the pre tribulation Saints then?

The narration in Matthew 24 has nothing to do with the present day church because the church age was still a mystery at that time.

This is why Jesus even taught his coming back will happen during the generation of those he was talking to. And it was for this reason two of his prophecies failed.

Read them below;

Matthew 16:27-28
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 24:30-34
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. note

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

If you can digest this truth, I will enlighten you on more truth that a larger percentage of the church is ignorant of. And I will give you proof of pre tribulation rapture of the present day church.

Both has hapened already. The Gospel of Eternal Kingdom has been preached everywhere, and the Abimination that render Disolate is the VaaSin that the has render many Souls Desolate and Satan now sits in the Temple's Holy of Holies(DNA) instead of SPIRIT of our CREATOR. MESSIAH is returning very very soon!

OkCornel:
Over the centuries, there have been numerous predictions on the second coming of Christ by “powerful MoGs” and acclaimed Biblical scholars which have all failed.

Even on nairaland, we have heard countless times since the platform was created that “the end of time is near and Jesus could arrive at any moment”

I can’t help but wonder why certain scriptures are ignored.

Let us set the ball rolling with a few critical signs believers should watch out for, and also address certain fallacies.

Matthew 24 shows two key signs believers should watch out for. Until these are fulfilled, we and the generations after are still in for a long wait.

First of all, let’s highlight where the confusion lies. Most people mistake the signs for the beginning of birth pains (wars, famines, earthquakes, disasters) as signs for the end time. Read the passage below carefully;



Moving on from these verses which clearly are not the signs to look out for. What then are these signs?



It’s clearly written in verse 14 and 15 the two trigger events that must be fulfilled before the second coming;

1. In verse 14. Not just any gospel, but specifically THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM must be preached to all inhabitants of the earth. This is to prepare the hearts and mind of men for the everlasting order to come. Ever wondered why Jesus’ major sermons and parables is centred around the kingdom of heaven? Can we confidently say this is the gospel the church has preached consistently over the ages?

2. The abomination that causes desolation must be set up in the holy place. Now this one is the interesting part. People have weighed in that this prophecy is already fulfilled in 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the second Jewish temple.

The problem with that conclusion is this. See

There is no historical record of any Roman emperor who made a covenant with many for 7 years and broke it mid-way (especially around 70 AD when the temple was destroyed)

Furthermore, Apostle Paul weighed in on this matter;



Bear in mind there will be a temple of God where this man of lawlessness will proclaim himself to be God. Please where is this temple today? It doesn’t exist. It’s yet to be constructed!

Apostle Paul mentioned we should not be alarmed or unsettled. No one should deceive anyone about the coming of the Lord. It cannot happen until the lawless one is revealed and the temple (which is yet to be constructed) is desecrated and the abomination that causes desolation is set up inside the temple.

If you are up to date on religious matters in Israel, it should come as no surprise there are talks of the third Jewish temple to be constructed.

The main Jewish group leading the charge to rebuild the temple is an organization called Faithful of the Temple Mount, who say they will continue their efforts to re-establish the Jewish temple on the Mount. In Israel, there are students being trained for the priesthood, learning how to conduct animal sacrifices in the rebuilt temple.

IN CONCLUSION;
Until these two events are fulfilled:
1. The gospel of the kingdom is preached to all inhabitants of the earth.

2. The temple is rebuilt, daily sacrifices are restored for a time and subsequently stopped by the man of lawlessness to set up the abomination that causes desolation which prophet Daniel, Jesus and Apostle Paul spoke of.

We cannot jump to the phase where we hold our breathe in anticipation of the return of the Son of Man. Pretty much explains the long wait for over 2000 years now, and why any talks of the world coming to an end is still premature.


Till then, live a spirit filled life and walk in the purpose of the I AM for your life!

Cc: Lalasticlala, Seun, nlfpmod

SeraphEl:
■ Look at it this way:PREPARE yourself to endure the great tribulation. Nothing to loose for being prepared If it turns out, you get “raptured” ( or most likely you will die first). However, If you find yourself UNPREPARED AND here during the great tribulation, THEN you run risk of loosing to the Antichrist spirit. THIS for eternity, no 2nd chances once you take the mark. THIS is beyond stupidity to toy with eternity.

Prepare yourself!!! Wake up to this satanic delusions called “pre tribulation” rapture!

1. I am afraid you have got it all wrong! What you think of the great tribulation is not true at all.

Kobojunkie:
1. I am afraid you have got it all wrong! What you think of the great tribulation is not true at all.

What do you think is the great tribulation from your understanding?

OkCornel:
What do you think is the great tribulation from your understanding?

Depends on which one you speak of. If you refer to that written in Revelations 7, then that refers to the suffering imposed on those who were cursed and scattered of Israel by God Himself in the foreign lands where He sent them.

63 “The Lord was happy to be good to you and to make your nation grow. In the same way the Lord will be happy to ruin and destroy you. You are going to take that land to be yours. But people will take you out of that land!
64 The Lord will scatter you among all the people in the world. He will scatter you from one end of the earth to the other. There you will serve false gods made of wood and stone. They are false gods that you or your ancestors never worshiped.
65 “You will not have any peace among these nations. You will have no place to rest. The Lord will fill your mind with worry. Your eyes will feel tired. You will be very upset.
66 You will live with danger and always be afraid. You will be afraid night and day. You will never feel sure about your life.
67 In the morning you will say, ‘I wish it were evening!’ In the evening you will say, ‘I wish it were morning!’ This will happen because of the fear in your heart and the terrible things you will see.
68 The Lord will send you back to Egypt in ships. I said you would never have to go to that place again, but he will send you there. In Egypt you will try to sell yourselves as slaves to your enemies, but no one will buy you.” - Deuteronomy 28 vs 63 - 68

Kobojunkie:
Depends on which one you speak of. If you refer to that written in Revelations 7, then that refers to the suffering imposed on those who were cursed and scattered of Israel by God Himself in the foreign lands where He sent them.

Are you mixing up the time of Jacob’s trouble for the great tribulation?

OkCornel:
Are you mixing up the time of Jacob’s trouble for the great tribulation?

Nope! In Revelations 7, the 144,000 and the multitudes indicated are described as having been redeemed by the Lamb aka born-again — at the time of the resurrection, Jesus Christ will raise all Israelites according to the Old Covenant, however. Since John wrote of them all having survived the great tribulation, we are left to surmise that there was in fact tribulation for each one of them to have all survived through it. And given that the people regarded in the chapter are all Israelites, the tribulation promised them by God Himself upon them makes sense.