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Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by triplechoice(m): 8:21pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
LordReed: Your agbada is also hooked too . You want to jest, yet, you have not been able to scientifically explain how mind has emerged from the brain, or clearly show how this 'mind ' interacts with the observable physical brain to control human behaviour You still depend on the speculatory theory of some scientist to argue this. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 8:25pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
triplechoice: triplechoice: No doubt our knowledge of all the mechanisms of the mind is incomplete but all the evidence we currently have point in this direction. I await your specific objections, let's see what the knowledge base has to say about them. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 9:46pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
A001: I just went through the 1st paper and at no point does it dissociate the mind from the physical elements that bring it forth. In fact it seeks to firmly establish the mind as an emergent property, albeit of more fundamental particles then we are used to. BTW the 2nd link doesn't work. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by TenQ: 9:47pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
triplechoice:You jumped in to pass judgement without following what had transpired between us. Thank you. What led toe telling him to move on ? TenQ: Check the highlighted in yellow and blue! Don't be quick to judge others! |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 10:33pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
LordReed:There's no where in that paper where the author stated the mind is a product of physical elements. Don't say what a source never stated. As I stated before, the mind is an emergent property of fundamental consciousness, the same position of the paper. The diagrams attached to my previous post already explains this. Your position is starkly different from the author's. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 11:05pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
TenQ:I'll explain tomorrow. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by triplechoice(m): 11:56pm On Jun 06, 2023 |
TenQ: I will respond to this tomorrow |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by kkins25(m): 12:07am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001:If the mind is not a product of physical element, why does stuff like colos distabilize the mind temporarily or permanently? |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 12:34am On Jun 07, 2023 |
kkins25:Tomorrow please. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 5:37am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: Physical particles and fields underly all phenomena. Pg 3 Then goes on to propose the particle senton as the fundamental particles underlying consciousness. I didn't say the author and I are saying the same thing, I said: at no point does it dissociate the mind from the physical elements that bring it forth. In fact it seeks to firmly establish the mind as an emergent property, albeit of more fundamental particles then we are used to. The author proposes that a new type of boson called the senton (from sentience) is responsible for consciousness. I am sure you understand that a boson is a physical fundamental particle. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by TenQ: 5:46am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001:No problems! |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by TenQ: 5:47am On Jun 07, 2023 |
triplechoice:No problems bro! |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 6:21am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:You said physical elements in your original post. You do know what we call elements in Physics, I suppose. You know in science, we use exact terms, not ambiguous words which I believe an enlightened person like you understand. Fundamental particles aren't physical elements. I made mention of the bosons called sentons here already and that the mind is an emergent property. It's all laid out in the STFC and FLA models in the previous pages. You're merely repeating what I've already stated here. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 6:59am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:The second link works on my laptop here. This one will surely work: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karl-Sipfle/publication/331306527_The_Nature_of_Fundamental_Consciousness/links/5c94498945851506d722392e/The-Nature-of-Fundamental-Consciousness.pdf I've over 50 studies and books I use for my studies on consciousness here, but I only cited those three because I like the approach of Dr. Sipfle which is in agreement with the things I proposed in my thesis. Other good studies to stay abreast of the scientific progress on consciousness are listed below (the second one may not be easy to understand unless you're well-versed in Advanced Physics): 1. https://www.sciforschenonline.org/journals/neurology/article-data/JNNB173/JNNB173.pdf 2. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dirk-Meijer-5/publication/338147415_Consciousness_in_the_Universe_is_Tuned_by_a_Musical_Master_Code_A_Hydrodynamic_Superfluid_Quantum_Space_Guides_a_Conformal_Mental_Attribute_of_Reality_The_Hard_Problem_in_Consciousness_Studies_Revisit/links/5e0236064585159aa49839fd/Consciousness-in-the-Universe-is-Tuned-by-a-Musical-Master-Code-A-Hydrodynamic-Superfluid-Quantum-Space-Guides-a-Conformal-Mental-Attribute-of-Reality-The-Hard-Problem-in-Consciousness-Studies-Revisit.pdf 3. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dirk-Meijer-5/publication/328538224_Universal_Consciousness_Collective_Evidence_on_the_Basis_of_Current_Physics_and_Philosophy_of_Mind_Part_1/links/5bed60404585150b2bb89d3e/Universal-Consciousness-Collective-Evidence-on-the-Basis-of-Current-Physics-and-Philosophy-of-Mind-Part-1 |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 7:01am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: Are you kidding? Fundamental particles are physical. You guys get so hung up on such trivialities its amazing. You getting hung up on my colloquial use of element as if you you don't understand what I am trying to say. The proposed sentons are PHYSICAL of course I know they are not elements in the precise meaning of the word scientifically. I called them fundamental particles didn't I. Oh Andromeda. I was trying to point out that this paper is not supporting the position that mind and body are of a dual nature. If sentons exist and are bosons then consciousness is a PHYSICAL phenomenon. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 7:09am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:Okay, that's clarified. That author is not saying consciousness is just a PHYSICAL phenomenon. No, he calls consciousness a natural phenomenon as well in his papers. That's better and more reasonable because other dimensions or realms not physical may exist in nature and his proposition will also be applicable there if sentons are confirmed to exist experimentally. By the way, he proposed that sentons are force particles or bosons that may have no mass and could be photons operating in other dimensions (check page 8 of the paper you said its link isn't working). |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 7:40am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: The author totally is and states it in the Pg 3 quote I gave. Furthermore when explaining what could be happen in on pg 4, lays out likely interactions between sentonically charged particles and the brain. Point out on what page the author says sentons are not in the physical realm or dimension. How can I check something that is not working? |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 7:43am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:I already said page 8 of the paper entitled "The Nature of Fundamental Consciousness". Just search for "dimension" in that paper. I gave two links to that paper. Both of them are working at my end here. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 7:54am On Jun 07, 2023 |
kkins25:The mind exists in the brain, which is the organ of consciousness in higher animals like humans. Thus, anything that affects the brain affects the mind as well. Consciousness is a fundamental force and interacts with other fundamental forces, especially EM forces (via ions) in the brain. These interactions are mainly responsible for what we call the mind. Drugs affect the ions in the brain and therefore influence these interactions between the fundamental forces, including consciousness and EM, in the mind. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 7:58am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: OK I found it and I checked it. The author was listing POSSIBLE reasons why the senton is indistinguishable from a proton! |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 7:59am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: Are the fundamental forces physical or not? |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 8:02am On Jun 07, 2023 |
TenQ:The key thing is if it's possible to simulate consciousness, once you can simulate consciousness, you can simulate mind. But I don't think it's possible to simulate consciousness. However, scientists will be able to work with consciousness in the future. They'll be able to study how matter like humans, animals, microbes are able to absorb consciousness from the Universe or nature, and scientists will try to replicate the same thing. We're always embedded in a sea of consciousness fields. In the future, scientists will be able to detect and measure consciousness just like they detect and measure radio waves. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 8:07am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:They're natural and physical. Not only physical. Using the Big Bang model, a fundamental force like EM existed in the form of light during the inflationary stage before the physical world we know today came into being. Fundamental consciousness is the same, too. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 8:15am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: So fundamental consciousness is natural and physical. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 8:16am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:Yes, both natural and physical. Natural because consciousness is embedded in the fabrics of the Universe even before the Big Bang, and physical because consciousness interacts with matter via sentons to produce physical processes. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 8:33am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: Then why were you objecting before? Did I say consciousness was unnatural at any point? |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 8:37am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:You said consciousness arises from physical phenomena, which I don't agree with. It is fundamental to the universe. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by TenQ: 8:58am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001:I agree with you in the sense that Science has gone a long way in making sense of many observables and have been able to bend matter and energy to his will. Unfortunately, I think it seems the Universe is built on fractal-like principles: the more we know the more the expanse we are yet to know. Consciousness seem so deep and complex even for the smallest microbe. They seem to be able to choose amongst options what pleases them and go for it. The fundamental of consciousness may be 1. sensory perception, then 2. a reward receptor mechanism of pain and pleasure 3. And a foresight that relishes future pleasures or pain resulting in Emotions like fear and anticipation. 4. Storage of history of experiences These I believe are the bare knuckle fundermental to attaining Consciousness. But then, there is another problem: It's like the case of which came first; the Chicken or the Eggs. Did Consciousness arise because of the sensory receptors and perception? OR Sensory receptors and perception are results of consciousness? OR Consciousness, Sensory receptors and perception occurred simultaneously? |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 9:11am On Jun 07, 2023 |
TenQ:Good response. About the chicken or egg issue, I don't like to dabble too much into philosophy. From my own view using the scientific method, consciousness is a fundamental and primordial property of the Universe, meaning it was in existence first before everything else. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by LordReed(m): 9:11am On Jun 07, 2023 |
A001: But you just admitted that the fundamental forces including consciousness are all physical! |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by A001: 9:12am On Jun 07, 2023 |
LordReed:Natural and physical. |
Re: Did The Mind Evolve From Chemistry, Matter And Energy? by Benfaco: 9:20am On Jun 07, 2023 |
The love of God for us John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. When Adam sinned, he lost the direct access he initially had with God. (Genesis 3) God decided to send his only begotten son (Jesus) to pay the price for our sins on the cross of calvary because of his love for us. When Christ resurrected, he restored all privileges that we once had and brought redemption to us all. All we need is to believe that he died for our sin and has once again granted us direct access with God. No longer through an intermediary! (Mathew 27:50-53). Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. If our earthly parents care so much for us, how much more our father in heaven! (Luke 11:11-13). God’s love for us is infinite. He has promised to supply all our needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. (Philipians 4:19). Prayer of Salvation Lord Jesus, I accept and acknowledge you as my personal lord and savior. I sincerely ask that you forgive my sins. Come into my life and pour out your spirit on me. By faith, I receive the promise of the father, which is the holy spirit. (John 14:16) I thank you for the price that you paid for me on the cross of calvary. Thank you for my redemption. I pray that your power, grace and favor will abide with me now and forever more. Amen. |
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