Explore2xmore:
قِيلَ ٱدۡخُلُوٓاْ أَبۡوَٰبَ جَهَنَّمَ خَٰلِدِينَ فِيهَا ۖ فَبِئۡسَ مَثۡوَى ٱلۡمُتَكَبِّرِينَ
"(To them) it will be said, "Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant.""
(Q39:72)


ٱلَّذِينَ يُجَٰدِلُونَ فِيٓ ءَايَٰتِ ٱللَّهِ بِغَيۡرِ سُلۡطَٰنٍ أَتَىٰهُمۡ ۖ كَبُرَ مَقۡتًا عِندَ ٱللَّهِ وَعِندَ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يَطۡبَعُ ٱللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ قَلۡبِ مُتَكَبِّرٍ جَبَّارٍ
"Those who dispute concerning the signs of Allah without an authority having come to them - great is hatred [of them] in the sight of Allah and in the sight of those who have believed. Thus does Allah seal over every heart [belonging to] an arrogant tyrant."
(Q40:35)

إِلَٰهُكُمۡ إِلَٰهٞ وَٰحِدٞ ۚ فَٱلَّذِينَ لَا يُؤۡمِنُونَ بِٱلۡأٓخِرَةِ قُلُوبُهُم مُّنكِرَةٞ وَهُم مُّسۡتَكۡبِرُونَ
"Your god is one God. But those who do not believe in the Hereafter - their hearts are disapproving, and they are arrogant."


هُوَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِي لَآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ٱلۡمَلِكُ ٱلۡقُدُّوسُ ٱلسَّلَٰمُ ٱلۡمُؤۡمِنُ ٱلۡمُهَيۡمِنُ ٱلۡعَزِيزُ ٱلۡجَبَّارُ ٱلۡمُتَكَبِّرُ ۚ سُبۡحَٰنَ ٱللَّهِ عَمَّا يُشۡرِكُونَ
"He is Allah, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him."
(Q59:23)

Two terms frequently mentioned in the Quran that highlight this theme are "Mutakabireen" and "al Mutakabir". Although both words have a similar root and convey the concept of arrogance, they differ in their nuances and implications within the context of the Quran.
"Mutakabireen" refers to those who exhibit arrogance and pride, often in a way that denies the existence or superiority of God.
This term is used to condemn those who reject religious guidance and consider themselves above divine authority. The Quran portrays the "Mutakabireen" as unappreciative and ungrateful individuals who fail to acknowledge their dependency on God's blessings.

On the other hand, "al Mutakabir" refers to God Himself as the Supreme Being, the Ultimate in Magnificence and Supreme Greatness. In this context, the term highlights God's infinite power, wisdom, and authority. It emphasizes the belief that true greatness and majesty belong to God alone. The Quran uses this term to remind humanity of their position of subservience to God and the need to submit to His will.

TenQ:


I don't know where you learnt your Arabic as your write up above is completely false and deceptive.
You submit that Al-Mutakabir has plural?

Let's test it out ,
1. Is it UNTRUE that In Arabic that "Mutakabireen" (متكبرين) is the plural form of the word "Mutakabbir" (متكبر), which means "arrogant" or "proud."?

The Arabic is written so that you can be sure that we are speaking about the same thing.


Mutakabireen refers to a group of people who are characterized by arrogance, pride, or a sense of superiority. This term is often used in the context of moral or behavioral descriptions.

Mutakabbir refer to a single person who is Arrogant. In the case of Allah, he is a single person Al-Mutakabbir!


I gave you an attachment of Arabic sentences in which singular forms Mutakabbir is used with respect to humans

Ohyoudidnt:

I very well am not so interested on how you define or understand God from your Bible. You are so fixated that nothing seemingly negative proceeds from God. You need to understand why these are and attest to the supremacy of Allah the only one worthy of all honour and praise.

The distressing spirit from God serves as a reminder of God's justice and the consequences of disobeying his commands. It highlights the biblical view of sin as a serious offense that requires punishment. It is not meant to be seen as God inflicting harm out of cruelty, but rather as a disciplinary measure aimed at bringing individuals back to the path of righteousness.

It is a call to align our lives with God's will and avoid the afflictions that come with disobedience.

Ohyoudidnt:


You haven't provided indisputable evidence that Allah commands muslims to bow to a black stone.

Explore2xmore:
Sentence context Mr not individual words.
These are the specifics of grammar in this language.
You submit that Q59:23 is not a correct translation of the meaning of the verse or will you rather reverse this into the other verses?

At last we will all know wouldn't we?

Explore2xmore:
Al-Mutakabir, an Arabic term, refers to Allah's greatness and perfection.It is not appropriate to assign a plural form to this term due to its uniqueness and incomparability. In Islamic theology, Allah is considered one and indivisible, making it inappropriate to assign plural forms. Instead, we can appreciate Allah's vastness and grandeur through various attributes and qualities conveyed in the Quran

SIRTee15:


God doesn't create moral evil, he's not responsible for it. evil doesnt proceed from the LORD. That's what my bible tells me.

“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou cannot not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).

You are good and do only good; teach me your decrees. psalm 119.68

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. James 1.13-14

The distressing spirit is obviously a mental illness. That cannot proceed from God because he is holy and illness is an infirmity, That's why there's no disease in heaven.
And the inhabitant of Zion shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. Isaiah 33.24
Also read Isaiah 65:17-25

The distressing spirit on Saul is the result of the spirit of God departing from him. Yes, God allowed it but didn't proceed from him.





well pictures dont lie. I've seen muslims multiple times bowing down in front of the kabba and even licking the stone for whatever reason.
Maybe u should listen to your Allah and stop worshiping your deity in front of a stone. it's idolatry.
Until Muslims stop bowing down in front a stone when worshipping their god, Allah isnt the God of the bible.
YAHWEH forbid bowing down before a stone even if sacred. He hates it.


“‘Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the Lord your God. lev 26.1

Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the Lord your God, and do not erect a sacred stone , for these the Lord your God hates. deut 16.22

God repeatedly warned Israelites not to bow to a stone or worship it. That's because worship of sacred stone is a common practice in the ancient Canaanite and middle eastern region. I guess that's where the pre-islamic arabia copied it.
God hates it and out rightly condemned it. Rather this is what God wants u to do to sacred stones.

Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces . Exodus 23.24

Ohyoudidnt:
Perharps. Who created whom or what we see as the devil? I seem to get the point of Rabbi Tovia that Christianity is based on a Superman like belief who always is on time to save the day and probably prevent all disliked things. Realistically this is not for life on this earth and is impractical.

Misunderstanding the concept of God's all-powerful and all-loving nature can be challenging. Our understanding of what is considered bad is limited and subjective. Short-term negative events can sometimes lead to long-term positive outcomes such as personal growth or societal progress. Our perspectives and understanding of the world vary greatly based on individual experiences, beliefs, and values. (did the one who was distressed not repent and refrain from bad acts?)

Labeling something as universally bad fails to consider the complexity of human experiences and perspectives. Therefore, it is essential to approach situations with an open mind and a willingness to broaden our understanding, recognizing that seemingly negative circumstances can eventually lead to positive outcomes.

Ohyoudidnt:
Perharps. Who created whom or what we see as the devil? I seem to get the point of Rabbi Tovia that Christianity is based on a Superman like belief who always is on time to save the day and probably prevent all disliked things. Realistically this is not for life on this earth and is impractical.

Misunderstanding the concept of God's all-powerful and all-loving nature can be challenging. Our understanding of what is considered bad is limited and subjective. Short-term negative events can sometimes lead to long-term positive outcomes such as personal growth or societal progress. Our perspectives and understanding of the world vary greatly based on individual experiences, beliefs, and values. (did the one who was distressed not repent and refrain from bad acts?)

Labeling something as universally bad fails to consider the complexity of human experiences and perspectives. Therefore, it is essential to approach situations with an open mind and a willingness to broaden our understanding, recognizing that seemingly negative circumstances can eventually lead to positive outcomes.

SIRTee15:


Furthermore, the holiness of God is the reason disobedience is regarded as a very serious sin to God. He punish disobedience severely because it's considered an affront to his authority and attempt to corrupt his very holy nature.


I noticed u ask if God created the devil...well I dont want to go into detail but just know in the bible we have what we call the soul.
This soul is responsible for its action, action that comes from his thought process and inclination.
That's how God created the soul.
We don't believe the soul is a robotic entity that's been programmed to follow that which has been downloaded into it from onset. That's Islam and not Christianity.

Talking about rabbinical Jews, they base their interpretation of the torah on the Talmud which is mostly oral traditions passed down from generation to generation. It's more like someone said that, somebody knew someone that said that..like the Muslim's hadith.
I wouldn't base my exegesis of the bible on the Talmud which is influenced by the understanding of God during the Jewish Babylonian era.

If u want to know God, the only true God. I will advise you to study the Pentateuch in the bible. Read genesis to Deuteronomy to know the very true nature of the Almighty God. Then read the book of Isaiah to get a picture of the dynamic nature of God.
I can assure u will only come to one conclusion...the God of the bible IS NOT the Allah in Koran.

Ohyoudidnt:
A little more from your Bible which may improve your understanding.

Amos 3:6

KJ21
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

ASV
Shall the trumpet be blown in a city, and the people not be afraid? shall evil befall a city, and Jehovah hath not done it?

AMP
If a trumpet is blown in a city [warning of danger] will not the people tremble? If a disaster or misfortune occurs in a city has not the Lord caused it?

AMPC
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city and the people not be alarmed and afraid? Shall misfortune or evil occur [as punishment] and the Lord has not caused it?

BRG
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

TenQ:


I asked you a question :



Is it UNTRUE that In Arabic that "Mutakabireen" (متكبرين) is the plural form of the word "Mutakabbir" (متكبر), which means "arrogant" or "proud."?


Sorry, I don't understand how Quran 59:23 has anything to do with this

Qur'an 59:23
هُوَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِى لَآ إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ ٱلْمَلِكُ ٱلْقُدُّوسُ ٱلسَّلَٰمُ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُ ٱلْمُهَيْمِنُ ٱلْعَزِيزُ ٱلْجَبَّارُ ٱلْمُتَكَبِّرُ ۚ سُبْحَٰنَ ٱللَّهِ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ

TenQ:




To test your claim,
1. Here are 10 Arabic sentences (attached) for which you should replace the word Mutakabbir with either supremely great or perfection of greatness or even great or excellent
*****
*****
See the attached 10 Arabic sentences to which he you should substitute your re-definition of Mutakabbir so that we see if the sentence makes sense
*****

The Truth is apparent to you here: you are redefining words to suit your purpose different from normal usage

2. Is it true that In everyday non Religious Arabic usage, "Mutakabbir" (متكبر) is an adjective that describes someone who is arrogant, haughty, or filled with pride. It is not a positive term and is often used to criticize someone's behavior when they display excessive pride or a sense of superiority over others.
So, if in a normal, non-religious context, "Mutakabbir" refers to a person who exhibits arrogance or an inflated sense of self-importance it means that you Muslims are redefining words to mean different from what it normally is.


Summary :
I see that you want to invent a new meaning of either supremely great or perfection of greatness or even great or excellent for the normal use of the word "Mutakabbir" (متكبّر) , this is a fallacy and deceptive use of words sir.

SIRTee15:


The Hebrew word for evil is rah. This word is not specific for evil but could also be used for calamity, disaster, mischief, adversity, affliction.
U have to look at the contextual application of the word evil to understand how it's used.


In Amos 3. God is declaring punishment upon the children of Israel for their iniquities.

Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Just like God visited calamity upon the Egyptians for their sin, God will do the same upon the city of Israel.

Calamity can be natural disasters, famine, flood, drought, war etc. These are are not moral evils. Lack of plenty is not moral evil, excess of rainfall is not moral evil, war is as a result of human action.

As I said earlier, moral evil doesn't proceed from God, the “evil” that is spoken of is not ontological evil, but the evil experienced by people in the form of negative consequences of nature and evil as a result human action.

God is pure and holy. Evil cannot proceed from something that's pure. Corruption cannot proceed from that which is holy. It's impossible.

“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).

Do God allows evil to happen? Yes. Can God visit evil upon mankind as punishment for sin? Yes.
This may raise other questions of why God would allow such a thing, but that's another topic entirely.

But the point here is evil do not proceed from God. He does not generate evil.

Ohyoudidnt:
Interesting that you make reference to contextual applications; how come those who antagonize Arabic in Islamic text don't remember this?

In Amos 5:15 after numerous verses stating punishment and retribution doesn't there exist Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

Do you now see the connection I try to explain?
Often times most of mankind forgets the almighty until some distress or calamity befalls them? Could this be a way to remind and draw back mankind to righteousness?

In Amos 4:7 reads And also I have withholden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered.

Does this not show how God blesses and reduces from his creation as he wishes?
Is the withholding of blessing not seen by those who suffer it as evil or distress? Who controls or permits this?
Check Quran 3:26

Explore2xmore:
All these your sentences are in reference to human beings not Allah so it wouldn't take. When you use this name for all other than Allah it is negative.

SIRTee15:


I think we are on a different tangent entirely.
The focus of my argument is does God create evil? Can he create evil? Does evil proceed from him
I guess I will include logic to my argument to give u better understanding.

Rain is not evil. Rainfall is actually a blessing created by God for fruitfulness.
There are thousands reasons why there could be drought- natural cause or man made action. If God uses drought to call attention of his people to their sinful life, that doesn't mean God created drought.

Drought is not an entity or existence on it's own Drought is absence of rainfall, absence of an existence that was created.

Rainfall was created, drought wasn't created. So u cannot say drought proceed from God because it wasn't part of creation. Do u get it now?

When God created the earth. He only created good things.
That was why he looked at his work and said this is good.


31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So God will create disease, tornado, drought, flood, earthquake, tsunami, will look at them and then say they are good!!!!
Common, don't be a dogmatic religious bigot.

It doesn't make sense for God to call bad things good.
God only made good things during in genesis 1 which is the creation story.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1 Timothy 4.4-5

I mention the phrase ontological evil, have a look into it. It will give u a better insight to out debate. Also look into moral evil and natural evil.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are things on Earth not regulated? Would you prefer permanent daylight or night?

You tend not to appreciate the balance in the
duality of sets of two opposing and complementing occurences.

Does anything exist that wasn't created? Do you believe these created themselves or evolved on their own?

Did Allah not know there will be mischief makers amongst mankind?
The presence and absence is only by Allah's leave and will.

TenQ:

This mean that your translation is WRONG!

You can't change the meaning of a sentence just because it refers to God.

Sentence:
God killed the babies!
mean exactly that
You don't say the killed here mean saved because it refers to God.


Al-Mutakabbir mean The Arrogant irrespective of whom it applies to!

Explore2xmore:
I don't recall any of those sentences stating that.

Your view is noted.

Ohyoudidnt:
Are things on Earth not regulated? Would you prefer permanent daylight or night?

You tend not to appreciate the balance in the
duality of sets of two opposing and complementing occurences.

Does anything exist that wasn't created? Do you believe these created themselves or evolved on their own?

Did Allah not know there will be mischief makers amongst mankind?
The presence and absence is only by Allah's leave and will.

SIRTee15:


I have investigated and now know where your problem is coming from.
As usual, the Koran which is a book of contradiction has done it again....and that's why it's followers cannot explain where evil comes from.

Give glad tidings to those who believe and work righteousness, that their portion is Gardens, beneath which rivers flow. Every time they are fed with fruits therein, they say: “Why, this is what we were fed with before,” for they are given things in similitude; and they have therein companions pure (and holy), and they abide therein (for ever). (Quran 2:25)

Quran 2:154 I believe answers you.


Does evil come from Allah?

Yes

.... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....
Quran 4:78

Does evil come from Allah

No

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself. But what has come to these people. That they fail to understand a single fact
Quran 4:79

So Ohyoudidnt above is the reason u want to extrapolate koranic teaching into the bible by fire by force.

Ok tell us Does evil come from Allah?

SIRTee15:


I have investigated and now know where your problem is coming from.
As usual, the Koran which is a book of contradiction has done it again....and that's why it's followers cannot explain where evil comes from.


Does evil come from Allah?

Yes

.... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....
Quran 4:78

Does evil come from Allah

No

Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself. But what has come to these people. That they fail to understand a single fact
Quran 4:79

So Ohyoudidnt above is the reason u want to extrapolate koranic teaching into the bible by fire by force.

Ok tell us Does evil come from Allah?

Ohyoudidnt:
You are right. I however don't have a problem.

Q2:45And seek help in patience and As-Salat (the prayer) and truly it is extremely heavy and hard except for Al-Khashi’un [i.e. the true believers in Allah – those who obey Allah with full submission, fear much from His Punishment, and believe in His Promise (Paradise, etc.) and in His Warnings (Hell, etc.)].

2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Sure you will defend why this occurs? If there's nothing contrary coming from your God why then does he do this and make them believe a lie?

God deliberately wants them deceived?

Quran 4:78
Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you even if you are in fortresses built up strong and high!” And if some good reaches them, they say, “This is from Allah,” but if some evil befalls them, they say, “This is from you (O Muhammad SAW).” Say: “All things are from Allah,” so what is wrong with these people that they fail to understand any word?

Quran 29:2
Do men think that they will be left alone on saying ‘We believe’ and that they will not be tested?

Quran 2:154-157
And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return

Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.


To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness has Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward. (Quran 5:9)

Those who believe, and work righteousness, their Lord will guide them because of their faith, beneath them will flow rivers in gardens of bliss. (Quran 10:9)

No authority has he (i.e. Shaitaan) over those who believe and put their trust in their Lord. (Quran 16:99)

As to those who believe and work righteousness, verily We shall not suffer to perish the reward of any who do a (single) righteous deed. (Quran 18:30)

Ohyoudidnt:
2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie


Is this not God categorically sending them delusions according to the Bible?

TenQ:

Satan disguising himself as Jibril aka the Best Deceiver aka the Distresser aka the Humiliator aka the Arrogant


No Angel appeared to Paul Sir. Mohammed was one who claimed an angel appeared to him.

By the way:
Why did you not answer my Questions: are you afraid of knowing the truth?

Questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that God be Arrogant ? To whom then will God be arrogant to as one can only be arrogant either to ones peers or superior.

2. Why do you think that God is a Believer ? Do you agree that we take a position of belief only when we are not 100% certain of a conclusion but we have reasonable fact to place our bet on an outcome in the future?

3. If God is the author of Distress , why do we attribute our problems to Satan?

4. Why do you think that the objective of God is to Humiliate us if he actually commanded even the Angels to bow to man?

5. Did Muhammed know what Allah would do to him? If he doesnt as the one showing you the way, can you be sure he has not been deceived?

6. How are you sure that the Greatest of all Deceivers has no decieved you from the way of truth?

TenQ:

Satan disguising himself as Jibril aka the Best Deceiver aka the Distresser aka the Humiliator aka the Arrogant


No Angel appeared to Paul Sir. Mohammed was one who claimed an angel appeared to him.

By the way:
Why did you not answer my Questions: are you afraid of knowing the truth?

Questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that God be Arrogant ? To whom then will God be arrogant to as one can only be arrogant either to ones peers or superior.

2. Why do you think that God is a Believer ? Do you agree that we take a position of belief only when we are not 100% certain of a conclusion but we have reasonable fact to place our bet on an outcome in the future?

3. If God is the author of Distress , why do we attribute our problems to Satan?

4. Why do you think that the objective of God is to Humiliate us if he actually commanded even the Angels to bow to man?

5. Did Muhammed know what Allah would do to him? If he doesnt as the one showing you the way, can you be sure he has not been deceived?

6. How are you sure that the Greatest of all Deceivers has no decieved you from the way of truth?

TenQ:

Satan disguising himself as Jibril aka the Best Deceiver aka the Distresser aka the Humiliator aka the Arrogant


No Angel appeared to Paul Sir. Mohammed was one who claimed an angel appeared to him.

By the way:
Why did you not answer my Questions: are you afraid of knowing the truth?

Questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that God be Arrogant ? To whom then will God be arrogant to as one can only be arrogant either to ones peers or superior.

2. Why do you think that God is a Believer ? Do you agree that we take a position of belief only when we are not 100% certain of a conclusion but we have reasonable fact to place our bet on an outcome in the future?

3. If God is the author of Distress , why do we attribute our problems to Satan?

4. Why do you think that the objective of God is to Humiliate us if he actually commanded even the Angels to bow to man?

5. Did Muhammed know what Allah would do to him? If he doesnt as the one showing you the way, can you be sure he has not been deceived?

6. How are you sure that the Greatest of all Deceivers has no decieved you from the way of truth?

AntiChristian:


All of these are found in your Bible!

Your God claimed He created peace and calamity in Isaiah 45:7 but you'll blame the calamity on Muslims not your God!

When He punished the people of Moses making them wander for decades in the desert that's humiliation!

Moreso, your God is a jealous God who punishes the sins of the father till many generations later!

Na Satan appear to Paul. Jesus would have called him before he left earth as part of his disciples! He never did!