₦airaland Forum

cornelboy:
If God created nothing then how did Jesus exist?

dum false jw cornyboy

God bought forth Wisdom from Himself to become His Son/Wisdom/the Word of God, proverbs 8
God begat the Word from Himself, not created Him from nothing

cornelboy: The facts is that God created everything else through Jesus Christ. He of course created Jesus.

you evil false jw's added "other" multiple times to col 1:16-17 to mke it look like Jesus/the Word was created

cornelboy: That's why Jesus is the firstborn of all creation/creature. He's the first to be created and most preeminent of God's creation.

the Word/Jesus is the firstborn of all Persons, not created, john 1:3 and col 1:16-17
makes that truth perfectly clear oh blinded one:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Joh 1:3  All things came into being through Him, and not even one thing that was created came into being without Him. 

Col 1:16  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 
Col 1:17  He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

cornelboy:
If God created nothing then how did Jesus exist?

Without Jesus, NOTHING came into being.

The facts is that God created everything else through Jesus Christ.

Yes! because The Word who became Christ is God's Word.

Reason why scripture says God created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

God didn't use anybody outside His being in creation.

He of course created Jesus.

Provide the verse.

That's why Jesus is the firstborn of all creation/creature.

Now, you're back to your initial denial.

Firstborn now means first created

He's the first to be created and most preeminent of God's creation.

That means God is lying in John 1:3 "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

cornelboy:
Lol what does firstborn mean?
Gimme another word or phrase for firstborn

One final verse and logic I use with those arguing on Trinity, I use 1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

Very self explanatory
I then ask, 'According to that verse, is the man and woman equal? Is Man the same as woman? Is the Man and Christ equal? Is Man Christ?
Man is not equal to the woman but the man has authority over the woman
Man is not equal to Christ and Christ has authority over the man
If they can agree on the above, why should it be argued that Christ is not God or equal to God but subject to God?

They start to look at the Bible as if it was a new verse, others argue blindly

Aemmyjah:
One final verse and logic I use with those arguing on Trinity, I use 1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

Very self explanatory
I then ask, 'According to that verse, is the man and woman equal? Is Man the same as woman? Is the Man and Christ equal? Is Man Christ?
Man is not equal to the woman but the man has authority over the woman
Man is not equal to Christ and Christ has authority over the man
If they can agree on the above, why should it be argued that Christ is not God or equal to God but subject to God?

They start to look at the Bible as if it was a new verse, others argue blindly

Whoa your logic is perfect.
I had an argument with that same verse with a friend. He was saying that man and woman are equal and Christ and God are equal too. He said being head over someone is not the same as being superior over that person.
So I can ask him now that "does that mean man is equal to Christ too?"

Thanks for sharing that 💕

Emusan:
Without Jesus, NOTHING came into being.



Yes! because The Word who became Christ is God's Word.

Reason why scripture says God created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

God didn't use anybody outside His being in creation.



Provide the verse.



Now, you're back to your initial denial.

Firstborn now means first created



That means God is lying in John 1:3 "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

Lol it's seems your brain and eye stop functioning whenever reading my posts.

I didn't interpret "firstborn" to "first created". I interpreted the whole phrase, "firstborn of all creation/creature".
That means Jesus was part of God's creation and he's even the first and most preeminent of all creation.

If he's first in all things, he's definitely the first to be created

cornelboy:
Whoa your logic is perfect.
I had an argument with that same verse with a friend. He was saying that man and woman are equal and Christ and God are equal too. He said being head over someone is not the same as being superior over that person.
So I can ask him now that "does that mean man is equal to Christ too?"

Thanks for sharing that 💕

Jesus called his disciples his brothers
Were they brothers of God?
If we should take things literally, we have far more than a Trinity as we can add the disciples na. What about Mary sef that some worship?

johnw47:
dum false jw cornyboy

God bought forth Wisdom from Himself to become His Son/Wisdom/the Word of God, proverbs 8
God begat the Word from Himself, not created Him from nothing



you evil false jw's added "other" multiple times to col 1:16-17 to mke it look like Jesus/the Word was created



the Word/Jesus is the firstborn of all Persons, not created, john 1:3 and col 1:16-17
makes that truth perfectly clear oh blinded one:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Thank you. Whether you use beget or create, it's still the same thing. The fact is that everything comes from God. Jesus was begotten, Jesus came from God too, we don't know how God did that but it's a fact that Jesus is a separate entity different from the Father.
After God beget/created Jesus, then he used Jesus to create everything else.

Throughout the Bible, no where did Jesus claim to be the creator, none of the apostle called him the creator. They only refer to God the Father as the creator.
It's simple, when you hire a an engineer to build something for you, who's the owner of that thing, you or the engineer?
Of course it's you! Everything Jesus used, the wisdom, intelligence, power was given to Jesus by his Father so undoubtedly, God is the creator not Jesus.

Emusan:
Without Jesus, NOTHING came into being.



Yes! because The Word who became Christ is God's Word.

Reason why scripture says God created everything ALL BY HIMSELF.

God didn't use anybody outside His being in creation.



Provide the verse.



Now, you're back to your initial denial.

Firstborn now means first created



That means God is lying in John 1:3 "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence." - NWT

All things came into existence through the Word. God created him and used him in creating all things. Jesus work in creation is just like that of an architect and the contractor. Jehovah God is the architect, Jesus was used to bring about all other things... Thats why I quoted the Bible that the WORD had a BEGINNING. Go argue with Bible na. One never had a beginning, he's the eternal One, the Ancient of Days. Who is that one? Jehovah God and that is why Jesus addressed him as Father at all times.

Proverbs 8:22

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth.
24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. 25 Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields Or the first clods of earth’s soil.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there; When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters
28 When he established the clouds above, When he founded the fountains of the deep
29 When he set a decree for the sea That its waters should not pass beyond his order, When he established the foundations of the earth
30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time
31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men.

In Max Voice, may you have peace

cornelboy:
Lol it's seems your brain and eye stop functioning whenever reading my posts.

Check your brain first

I didn't interpret "firstborn" to "first created". I interpreted the whole phrase, "firstborn of all creation/creature".

Then where did the phrase FIRST CREATED is in the scripture?

That means Jesus was part of God's creation and he's even the first and most preeminent of all creation.

And I've showed you that, that is a wrong interpretation of that verse since ALL THINGS came into being THROUGH Jesus.

If he's first in all things, he's definitely the first to be created

That's not what the verse says, stop twisting the scripture.

So that He might BECOME THE ONE WHO IS FIRST in ALL THINGS.

If Jesus was first created then there's no need to still BE THE ONE WHO MIGHT BE FIRST again.

English language is not that hard, just open your brain for easy understanding.

Aemmyjah:
All things came into existence through the Word. God created him and used him in creating all things.

ALL THINGS came INTO EXISTENCE yet the deluded still went further to say God CREATED HIM.

Is Just not part of ALL THINGS THAT CAME INTO EXISTENCE?

Jesus work in creation is just like that of an architect and the contractor.

I've trashed this for a very long time here.

Show me where Jesus worked in creation.

Jehovah God is the architect, Jesus was used to bring about all other things...

Architect only DESIGN
So you means Jehovah ONLY DESIGN CREATION?

Now he has to smuggle the word "OTHER" in between

Thats why I quoted the Bible that the WORD had a BEGINNING. Go argue with Bible na.

NO WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS the word had a beginning.

One never had a beginning, he's the eternal One, the Ancient of Days. Who is that one? Jehovah God and that is why Jesus addressed him as Father at all times.

THE Word never Had a beginning.

Proverbs 8:22

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth.
24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. 25 Before the mountains were set in place, Before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields Or the first clods of earth’s soil.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there; When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters
28 When he established the clouds above, When he founded the fountains of the deep
29 When he set a decree for the sea That its waters should not pass beyond his order, When he established the foundations of the earth
30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time
31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men.

I always say never use this when it comes to Creation account to proof Jesus was created because you will be exposed for your lack of scriptural understanding.

Now, I color over 5 pronouns HE

Who is the speaker?

And who is the speaker referring to as HE which is actually carrying out the Creation activities?

Note: the speaker never involved in the creation activities DIRECTLY as stated in those verses.

In Max Voice, may you have peace

I already have the peace Jesus peace promised all His followers, do you have it?

Emusan:
ALL THINGS came INTO EXISTENCE yet the deluded still went further to say God CREATED HIM.

Is Just not part of ALL THINGS THAT CAME INTO EXISTENCE?



I've trashed this for a very long time here.

Show me where Jesus worked in creation.



Architect only DESIGN
So you means Jehovah ONLY DESIGN CREATION?

Now he has to smuggle the word "OTHER" in between



NO WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS the word had a beginning.



THE Word never Had a beginning.



I always say never use this when it comes to Creation account to proof Jesus was created because you will be exposed for your lack of scriptural understanding.

Now, I color over 5 pronouns HE

Who is the speaker?

And who is the speaker referring to as HE which is actually carrying out the Creation activities?

Note: the speaker never involved in the creation activities DIRECTLY as stated in those verses.



I already have the peace Jesus peace promised all His followers, do you have it?

Read Proverbs again
Personified wisdom is talking
Who did Jehovah produce as the earliest of his achievements? Was it another angel talking?
You don't even know English
The 'HE' you mentioned was identified in that first verse

Bible says that the Word has a beginning, 'in the beginning was the word'
Emusan says na lie

Emusan:
I've said this above meaning you don't pay attention but just burying your head in what has been fused into it.

Firstborn means "superior in"

As you can see from Psalm 89:27 “I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth."

This doesn't mean the FIRST ENTHRONED KING on earth.

Also, this verse says CHRIST will be MADE FIRSTBORN.

Reason why Apostle Paul says "He must be the ONE WHO COME FIRST IN ALL THINGS"

Summary, Jesus was not part of creation but when he became part of Creation He must still take first Position in everything.

BIBLE STUDY 101

Lol
You have failed woefully

Colossians 1:15,18
[15]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[18]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word firstborn as used by Paul in both verses doesn't only signify superiority or preeminence, it also signifies the "first in the order of time".
For example, let say I'm the firstborn son of my parents, it'd mean that I'm the first (regarding time) male child they gave birth to in our family.

So why did Paul use the word "firstborn"?
Don't forget that firstborn means first regarding to time and also regarding preeminence or superiority.

So according to verse 15, "firstborn of all creation/creatures" means first to be created and most preeminent (or first in preeminence) among things that were created.

In verse 18, "firstborn from the dead" means that among those that will be raised from the dead to a spirit being, Jesus is the first and most preeminent.

I won't collect offering for this Bible study

Aemmyjah:
Read Proverbs again

I've read it many times.

Personified wisdom is talking

Who is the person personified?

Who did Jehovah produce as the earliest of his achievements?

It's the infinite Wisdom of Yahweh

Was it another angel talking?
You don't even know English

It's the Infinite Wisdom of Yahweh speaking.

The 'HE' you mentioned was identified in that first verse

Who is HE?

Bible says that the Word has a beginning, 'in the beginning was the word'
Emusan says na lie

"In the Beginning WAS..." which means the Word already exists before that time.

The only things that came to creation "In the beginning" is Heavens and Earth

Genesis 1:1 "IN THE BEGINNING GOD created the Heavens and the Earth"

To say another being was created IN THE BEGINNING again negate that verse in Gen 1:1.

Emusan:
I've read it many times.



Who is the person personified?



It's the infinite Wisdom of Yahweh



It's the Infinite Wisdom of Yahweh speaking.



Who is HE?



"In the Beginning WAS..." which means the Word already exists before that time.

The only things that came to creation "In the beginning" is Heavens and Earth

Genesis 1:1 "IN THE BEGINNING GOD created the Heavens and the Earth"

To say another being was created IN THE BEGINNING again negate that verse in Gen 1:1.

Who is that wisdom of YAHWEH? that was especially fond of mankind and was a master worker in God's creation?

Emusan:
Check your brain first



Then where did the phrase FIRST CREATED is in the scripture?



And I've showed you that, that is a wrong interpretation of that verse since ALL THINGS came into being THROUGH Jesus.



That's not what the verse says, stop twisting the scripture.

So that He might BECOME THE ONE WHO IS FIRST in ALL THINGS.

If Jesus was first created then there's no need to still BE THE ONE WHO MIGHT BE FIRST again.

English language is not that hard, just open your brain for easy understanding.

Jesus is first in all your things of course. He's first to be created and first to be raised into a spirit being

"First created" comes from "firstborn of all creation/creatures.".
It means out of all creation, Jesus was the first and most preeminent

The Jehovah's witnesses are not your mates when it comes to bible matter

Emusan:
I've read it many times.



Who is the person personified?



It's the infinite Wisdom of Yahweh



It's the Infinite Wisdom of Yahweh speaking.



Who is HE?



"In the Beginning WAS..." which means the Word already exists before that time.

The only things that came to creation "In the beginning" is Heavens and Earth

Genesis 1:1 "IN THE BEGINNING GOD created the Heavens and the Earth"

To say another being was created IN THE BEGINNING again negate that verse in Gen 1:1.

It's not completely different
One was talking about the beginning of creation
Another about the Word

King James Version
Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Who is that beginning? Who caused his beginning? What title did he use to address the one who caused his beginning?

cornelboy:
Lol
You have failed woefully

Colossians 1:15,18
[15]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[18]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

The word firstborn as used by Paul in both verses doesn't only signify superiority or preeminence, it also signifies the "first in the order of time".

Like I said, if Jesus was first created, then no need for Paul to say "So that He MIGHT BE THE ONE WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS"

For example, let say I'm the firstborn son of my parents, it'd mean that I'm the first (regarding time) male child they gave birth to in our family.

I even gave you a passage in Psalm where it was stated that Jesus was MADE FIRSTBORN.

So what Paul was addressing there is the superiority of Jesus over creation because Paul already stated that Jesus CREATED EVERYTHING.

So why did Paul use the word "firstborn"?

Reading the content you will understand why.

Don't forget that firstborn means first regarding to time and also regarding preeminence or superiority.

So what Paul meant is the superiority.

He even used PREEMINENCE so that people like you won't be deceived.

So according to verse 15, "firstborn of all creation/creatures" means first to be created and most preeminent (or first in preeminence) among things that were created.

No!

In verse 18, "firstborn from the dead" means that among those that will be raised from the dead to a spirit being, Jesus is the first and most preeminent.

No! The first to experience the actual RESURRECTION believers in Christ will experience.

I won't collect offering for this Bible study

I just need you time for Bible study.

cornelboy:
Jesus is first in all your things of course. He's first to be created and first to be raised into a spirit being

You can see how you shot yourself in the legs

Then the next verse says so that "He might be the one WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS"

"First created" comes from "firstborn of all creation/creatures.".
It means out of all creation, Jesus was the first and most preeminent

JESUS is the Creator.

NOTHING WAS CREATED without Jesus.

So if Jesus is the first created, then it means Jesus Created Himself

The Jehovah's witnesses are not your mates when it comes to bible matter

That's why they usually collect Bible study every day

Emusan:
So if Jesus is the first created, then it means Jesus Created Himself

Na wa o
Jesus no get father again?

You have ran away from your Prov 8

Why nah?

Aemmyjah:
It's not completely different

Waooooo

Why you people are so evil and full of lies?

One was talking about the beginning of creation

So is Jesus not THE BEGINNING OF CREATION according to you?

Another about the Word

So the word is the beginning of what?

King James Version
Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Read it from another version.

CEV: This is what you must write to the angel of the church in Laodicea: I am the one called Amen! I am the faithful and true witness and the source of God's creation. Listen to what I say.

The Father is THE BEGINNING.
Jesus is THE BEGINNING.

Who is that beginning? Who caused his beginning? What title did he use to address the one who caused his beginning?

The Father is THE BEGINNING, are you saying the Father has beginning?

Also, you didn't address your point again in Prov 8, why?

Na wa oooo

Emusan:
You have ran away from your Prov 8

Why nah?



Waooooo

Why you people are so evil and full of lies?



So is Jesus not THE BEGINNING OF CREATION according to you?



So the word is the beginning of what?



Read it from another version.

CEV: This is what you must write to the angel of the church in Laodicea: I am the one called Amen! I am the faithful and true witness and the source of God's creation. Listen to what I say.

The Father is THE BEGINNING.
Jesus is THE BEGINNING.



The Father is THE BEGINNING, are you saying the Father has beginning?

Also, you didn't address your point again in Prov 8, why?

Na wa oooo

Don't be like an illiterate
One is talking about the physical creation- heaven and earth
One is talking about the Word and the word existed long before the heaven and earth were made?

According to the Revelation
Who is the beginning of the creation of GOD

Aemmyjah:
Na wa o
Jesus no get father again?

"All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence." - NWT

Even the fact is,

The ONLY THINGS CREATED in the beginning is HEAVENS AND EARTH.

Where did you read it that Jesus was CREATED in THE BEGINNING?

Emusan:
You can see how you shot yourself in the legs

Then the next verse says so that "He might be the one WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS"



JESUS is the Creator.

NOTHING WAS CREATED without Jesus.

So if Jesus is the first created, then it means Jesus Created Himself



That's why they usually collect Bible study every day

Only if you know that you didn't say anything worthwhile

Jesus was never called the creator.

And of course Jesus is first in all things and being first among creatures and first to be raised into a spirit being are part of his first

Aemmyjah:
Don't be like an illiterate
One is talking about the physical creation- heaven and earth

Waoooo very deceptive of you.

Even John 1:1 never talk about Jesus being created IN THE BEGINNING.

One is talking about the Word and the word existed long before the heaven and earth were made?

So where is the WORD RESIDE because every CREATURE NEEDS A SPACE TO OCCUPY?

According to the Revelation
Who is the beginning of the creation of GOD

I've given you another version so that you will know what that verse is saying.

Emusan:
Like I said, if Jesus was first created, then no need for Paul to say "So that He MIGHT BE THE ONE WHO IS FIRST IN ALL THINGS"



I even gave you a passage in Psalm where it was stated that Jesus was MADE FIRSTBORN.

So what Paul was addressing there is the superiority of Jesus over creation because Paul already stated that Jesus CREATED EVERYTHING.



Reading the content you will understand why.



So what Paul meant is the superiority.

He even used PREEMINENCE so that people like you won't be deceived.



No!



No! The first to experience the actual RESURRECTION believers in Christ will experience.



I just need you time for Bible study.

Did Jesus create himself?

cornelboy:
Only if you know that you didn't say anything worthwhile

After all, I'm not like you.

Jesus was never called the creator.

Who created ALL THINGS?

And of course Jesus is first in all things and being first among creatures and first to be raised into a spirit being are part of his first

Then if he is the first,

Why must HE still need to "BE THE ONE WHO might BECOME FIRST in ALL THINGS(which included creation?"

I know you lack simple comprehension, the key phrase her is "Might BECOME FIRST"

Emusan:
Waoooo very deceptive of you.

Even John 1:1 never talk about Jesus being created IN THE BEGINNING.



So where is the WORD RESIDE because every CREATURE NEEDS A SPACE TO OCCUPY?





I've given you another version so that you will know what that verse is saying.

John who wrote John 1:1 also wrote the Revelation
In the beginning was the Word... the same was with God... The WORD was in the beginning with God

Micah 5:2

Study Bible
Micah 5:2
And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.

Who is that person from Bethlehem to become ruler whose origin was from ancient times?

cornelboy:
Did Jesus create himself?

He was never created in the first place.

But if you agree that Jesus was created, then based on John 1:3 it means Jesus created Himself.

because Bible is so straight that "WITHOUT HIM, NOTHING was created"

Emusan:
He was never created in the first place.

But if you agree that Jesus was created, then based on John 1:3 it means Jesus created Himself.

because Bible is so straight that "WITHOUT HIM, NOTHING was created"

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”

 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Jesus Created Himself? 😂😂😂

Aemmyjah:
John who wrote John 1:1 also wrote the Revelation
In the beginning was the Word... the same was with God... The WORD was in the beginning with God

Micah 5:2

Study Bible
Micah 5:2
And you, O Bethʹle·hem Ephʹra·thah, The one too little to be among the thousands of Judah, From you will come out for me the one to be ruler in Israel, Whose origin is from ancient times, from the days of long ago.

Who is that person from Bethlehem to become ruler whose origin was from ancient times?

Funny how you keep jumping around.

Why did you run away from Prov 8?

John 1:1 never said the WORD WAS CREATED in the BEGINNING, is English your problem?

Why did you run away from KJV?

This is the reason I told your brother to stick to one translation.

KJV John 1:1 says the WORD WAS GOD. God can't be created.

Micah 5:2 “But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto Me He that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”

Micah 5:2 I'd about the operation of the eternal Word of God.

Aemmyjah:
For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”

 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Jesus Created Himself? 😂😂😂

Oya quote John 1:3 from any translations

Let's see what it says, your claim of God created Jesus first won't turn out to be that Jesus created Himself