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Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. - Christianity Etc (25) - Nairaland

Nairaland ForumNairaland GeneralChristianity EtcCharles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. (16202 Views)

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Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 11:14pm On Oct 14, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
All Jews thought they were worshiping the God of Abraham just like Jesus and his disciples until Jesus made it clear that only those having the same line of thought with him are worshipers of his own God! Matthew 12:46-50

So if you can't separate false religions from the only true one then you're a practicer of false religion Baal worshiper! cheesy
Madness ans insanities peddling peddler

Show where Jesus called other Christians denominations lie lie Christians?
Matthew 12: sef na Micah and Isaiah to you not what Jesus said it means. Your insanities and madness peddling brains is filled with lies and manipulations of Jesus words grin grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 11:19pm On Oct 14, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
Bwahahahaha! cheesy

Maximus never said apostles teaches lies! grin
When I said na madness and insanities peddling brains una get and use to peddle lies and madness. No be lie.

The screenshot belows shows that what intent of you and your likes even the post got a like from brothers in Jehovah grin grin grin grin


What is your answer to the question asked by Janosky? grin grin grin grin grin grin

Your one line of thought is on the line. This will collapse the essence of your madness and insanities peddling over the book of Acts 4 and Matthew 14:7. grin grin grin grin


O ye ko ti gbon ju bayii lo grin grin grin grin

Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 11:25pm On Oct 14, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
RESTORATIONISTS can only be of the same line of thought:
Making research to know how to practice what Jesus really taught apart from different opinions established by people who are taught to be nice.
So all the four you mentioned are the same if we truly want to look critically into what they stands for. smiley
You see the manipulator and liar says......

So all the four you mentioned are the same if we truly want to look critically into what they stands for
Joseph smith is the founder of Latter Day Saints. Ask the liar and manipulator of the scriptures whether LDS are worshipping same God as Jehovah’s witnesses and are true Christians? The madness and insanities peddling peddler will start another round of lies and manipulations.

Why not worship with LDS since they are all the same critically grin grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:22am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
You see the manipulator and liar says......
Joseph smith is the founder of Latter Day Saints. Ask the liar and manipulator of the scriptures whether LDS are worshipping same God as Jehovah’s witnesses and are true Christians? The madness and insanities peddling peddler will start another round of lies and manipulations. Why not worship with LDS since they are all the same critically grin grin grin grin
Of course Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints aren't worshiping the same God today!

WHY?

The LDS have derailed from the course.

RESTORATIONISTS are supposed to figure out the assignment given to Christ's followers not just establish a religion to add to the numbers of existing religions contradicting themselves.


So if Joseph Smith and Charles Taze Russell are alive today and both of them kick against the sign God Himself gave in the scriptures as evidence of His presence in the midst of His worshipers then both of them have derailed.

Note that they set off as RESTORATIONISTS not founders of a new religion so each must present the group that's performing according to the job Christ assigned to his disciples only Jehovah's Witnesses are performing excellently today and it's evident that neither Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, John Calvin or Martin Luther knew what Jehovah's Witnesses are performing globally today but all of them realized that something was wrong with the churches of Christendom.

So all of them had the same line of thought as they could sense that something is wrong with the churches of Christendom but they never lived to witness the restoration of pure worship today: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! smiley
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 5:36am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
What is your answer to the question asked by Janosky?
There is a difference between inspired writings and practical applications.
Jesus is the one and only servant of God who is inspired and perfectly grasp the application of God's word but all other imperfect humans do err while trying to apply the inspired words.

The apostles weren't teaching falsehood but they surely err in some of the applications just as their modern day counterpart did in our day.

For instance Peter was with Jesus throughout the ministry yet when it comes to how Christ's love should be applied Peter needed to be corrected by Paul who never walked with Jesus in the ministry at all. Galatians 2:11-14

Was Peter inspired to pen down part of God's word?
YES!
Was Paul instead to pen down part of God's word?
YES!
Did they perfectly grasp all the application back then?
This is what Apostle Paul had to say in response to the last question:

"For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with" 1 Corinthians 13:9-10

Meaning they never grasp all the applications perfectly rather they were all anticipating a time when pure worship will be restored so that nobody can present a better performing group than the perfectly restored pure worship which Jehovah's Witnesses have today! smiley
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 8:14am On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
Of course Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints aren't worshiping the same God today!

WHY?

The LDS have derailed from the course.

RESTORATIONISTS are supposed to figure out the assignment given to Christ's followers not just establish a religion to add to the numbers of existing religions contradicting themselves.


So if Joseph Smith and Charles Taze Russell are alive today and both of them kick against the sign God Himself gave in the scriptures as evidence of His presence in the midst of His worshipers then both of them have derailed.

Note that they set off as RESTORATIONISTS not founders of a new religion so each must present the group that's performing according to the job Christ assigned to his disciples only Jehovah's Witnesses are performing excellently today and it's evident that neither Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, John Calvin or Martin Luther knew what Jehovah's Witnesses are performing globally today but all of them realized that something was wrong with the churches of Christendom.

So all of them had the same line of thought as they could sense that something is wrong with the churches of Christendom but they never lived to witness the restoration of pure worship today: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! smiley
I know you will come to peddle lies and manipulations packed into your madness and insanities peddling brains.

Of course Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints aren't worshiping the same God today
You started with

So all the four you mentioned are the same if we truly want to look critically into what they stands for.
The LDS have derailed from the course.
Your lying and manipulating brains did not tell you

LDS can also say lol The JWS derailed from the course. Which in reality you are still the same. You both derailed grin grin grin

RESTORATIONISTS are supposed to figure out the assignment given to Christ's followers not just establish a religion to add to the numbers of existing religions contradicting themselves.
They are supposed to figure out the assignment yet both LDS and JWS set up religious organization and added to then many contrasting existing religious organization grin grin grin grin. You still come back and lie again that Russell didn't establish any religious organization

So if Joseph Smith and Charles Taze Russell are alive today and both of them kick against the sign God Himself gave in the scriptures as evidence of His presence in the midst of His worshipers then both of them have derailed.
Stop adding if and nonsense claims to add your madness and insanities peddling. Joseph Smith and Russell both created books that they clearly see as Bible equivalents of which many see as heretical today and has no relationship with the scripture grin grin. Before they die, they are already derailed and deluded grin grin grin

Note that they set off as RESTORATIONISTS not founders of a new religion so each must present the group that's performing according to the job Christ assigned to his disciples only Jehovah's Witnesses are performing excellently today and it's evident that neither Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, John Calvin or Martin Luther knew what Jehovah's Witnesses are performing globally today but all of them realized that something was wrong with the churches of Christendom.
Water don pass garri grin grin grin. All of them set up religious organization and seek followers and adherents. Your Russell admit that in his numerous books. Rutherford didn't even recognise Joseph Smith as messenger of Jesus Christ at all in his tribute to Russell after his death. And all of them are part of the christendom back then and today including your Jehovah’s witnesses grin grin grin grin.

So all of them had the same line of thought as they could sense that something is wrong with the churches of Christendom but they never lived to witness the restoration of pure worship today: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Madness and insanities peddling to make the narrative suit his lies and manipulations of history grin grin grin grin. Russell that was waiting for God's Kingdom in 1914 and bring an end to all other organization set up by mankind. Those are the delusions laced with lies, manipulations, madness and insanities peddling emanating from your brains.

Watchtower of November 1,1917, published a year after Russell’s death,
contained an article titled: “A Tribute to the Seventh Messenger.” In part,

it said:
The great drama of the Gospel Age opened with the apostle Paul as the chief messenger, or angel, to the Church. It closes with Pastor Russell as the seventh and last messenger to the Church militant. For the other five epochs of the Church, the Lord provided messengers in the order named;

St. John, Arius, Waldo, Wycliffe and Luther.

Each in his turn bore the message due to be understood during the epoch he represented.

The two most prominent messengers, however, are the first and the last: St. Paul and Pastor Russell


Your lies and manipulations can delude you more not others grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 8:19am On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
There is a difference between inspired writings and practical applications.
Jesus is the one and only servant of God who is inspired and perfectly grasp the application of God's word but all other imperfect humans do err while trying to apply the inspired words.

The apostles weren't teaching falsehood but they surely err in some of the applications just as their modern day counterpart did in our day.

For instance Peter was with Jesus throughout the ministry yet when it comes to how Christ's love should be applied Peter needed to be corrected by Paul who never walked with Jesus in the ministry at all. Galatians 2:11-14

Was Peter inspired to pen down part of God's word?
YES!
Was Paul instead to pen down part of God's word?
YES!
Did they perfectly grasp all the application back then?
This is what Apostle Paul had to say in response to the last question:

"For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with" 1 Corinthians 13:9-10

Meaning they never grasp all the applications perfectly rather they were all anticipating a time when pure worship will be restored so that nobody can present a better performing group than the perfectly restored pure worship which Jehovah's Witnesses have today! smiley
Keep the above to yourself. Answer the questions asked by your brother accordingly the way he placed it. I don't need explanations

I (Achorladey) equally answer that question in the same order.

It is your fellow brother sorry friend in Jehovah aka Janosky that raised those questions to show why your GODS have right to teach and practise wrong doctrine. Answer the question.

You people will go about lying and manipulating the scriptures. After you are caught in your lies you start denials and come back to admit you lied.
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 8:25am On Oct 15, 2023
JuanDeDios said.....

Interesting.
There are four prominent Restorationists (someone who tries to restore original or real church) in Christianity:
added

Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Smith.
Then

I'd like to hear from followers of the other three.
MaxInDHouse you are not a follower of the other three. Stop peddling madness and insanities laced with lies and manipulations on what you don't know.

Rutherford who gave the name Jehovah’s witnesses didn't recognise John Calvin and Joseph Smith as among the Seven messengers sent by Jesus in the gospel age.
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 8:48am On Oct 15, 2023
JuanDeDios:
Interesting.

There are four prominent Restorationists (someone who tries to restore original or real church) in Christianity: Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Smith. I'd like to hear from followers of the other three.
Isn't Joseph Smith that founder of LDS church? They have their book they follow. They have this strange believe of universal salvation.

To know the group practising true Christianity today, all you need to do is observe their fruits. They must complete adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostles. Also compare their practices and doctrines to those of the early church in the Bible.
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 8:49am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
The Janosky aka JaNosense who uses the truth of trinitarians to advance the truth contained in the bible like Jesus is Angel Michael but not a created angel

The truth of those trinitarians are what you packed into your lying and manipulating brains and call yourself custodian of truth grin grin grin
Park for one side jor
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 8:51am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
Empty barrel peddler



Evidence of your unreasonableness, insanities and madness peddling on nairaland. I said....



The madness and insanities peddling peddler came back with.....



See unreasonableness peddling grin grin grin cheesy



What does have to do with nairaland being a property of watchtower grin grin grin grin Those your members who shunned us because we decided to leave the organisation how has that remove A from Achorladey. Madness and insanities peddling as usual grin grin grin




Even the blood doctrine matter I started with you, you cannot defend paapaa. Na the lies and manipulations packed into madness and insanities peddling brains you carry come.



Your madness and insanities peddling cannot understand it when I showed you.

Therefore, Jesus also suffered outside the city gate in order to sanctify the people with his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the reproach he bore, for we do not have here a city that remains, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come. Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration to his name(JESUS not JEHOVAH). Moreover, do not forget to do good and to share what you have with others, for God is well-pleased with such sacrifices

The below is what you(cornelboy), Aemmyjah and MaxInDHouse both joined hands in peddling lies and manipulations of the scriptures packed into your insanities and madness peddling brains



The apostles and new covert decided to share what they have with others. You madness and insanities peddling brother in Jehovah called MaxInDHouse says they are doing EVILS of eradicating poverty grin grin grin What God is well pleased is what you call EVILS of eradicating poverty.



The marketing you have been doing about your religious organization have doubled the size of Jehovah's Witnesses on nairaland by 10000 grin grin
The insanities and madness peddling of your brains.



Empty barrel peddler was lamenting that we should avoid him for one year. Empty barrels should not be a disturbance for madness and insanities peddling peddler grin grin

O ye ko ti ma gbon lati gba to to dara po mo nairaland
Wàá ti jẹ blocking sẹ́ 😁
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 8:51am On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
They're just stupid walahi talahi.

The same person is always arguing with other misinformed churchgoers here on Nairaland and most times their arguments do lead to insults, abusive speeches and curses o!

Now he wants to claim they are worshipers of the same god! cheesy
Ká mà ri
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 8:52am On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
Wàá ti jẹ blocking sẹ́ 😁
You still dey mention me grin grin grin grin

Go and block me on your social media platforms. grin grin grin It will not remove A from Achorladey
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey:
cornelboy:
Park for one side jor
TRINITARIANS truth are scattered in the religious publications of your GODS. You cannot park it one side grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by JuanDeDios: 10:17am On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
Isn't Joseph Smith that founder of LDS church? They have their book they follow. They have this strange believe of universal salvation.

To know the group practising true Christianity today, all you need to do is observe their fruits. They must complete adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostles. Also compare their practices and doctrines to those of the early church in the Bible.
Well, I did a bit of that. I couldn't find any church that completely adheres to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles - which makes sense really since contexts and nuances exist in the affairs of men and so it's not possible to completely adhere to any ancient teachings.
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 11:14am On Oct 15, 2023
JuanDeDios:
Well, I did a bit of that. I couldn't find any church that completely adheres to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles - which makes sense really since contexts and nuances exist in the affairs of men and so it's not possible to completely adhere to any ancient teachings.
Well you can study the Bible extensively with the Jehovah witnesses.
MaxInDHouse was a Muslim before he found out that Jehovah's witnesses organisation is the true religion today. I also found out that only the JWs have the TRUTH.

Jah bless.
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by JuanDeDios: 11:15am On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
Well you can study the Bible extensively with the Jehovah witnesses.
MaxInDHouse was a Muslim before he found out that Jehovah's witnesses organisation is the true religion today. I also found out that only the JWs have the TRUTH.

Jah bless.
Lol
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 11:17am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
TRINITARIANS truth are scattered in the religious publications of your GODS. You can park it one side grin grin grin
You should start worshipping those GODS lol cheesy cheesy
I only revere Jehovah as the one God wink
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 11:20am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
You still dey mention me grin grin grin grin

Go and block me on your social media platforms. grin grin grin It will not remove A from Achorladey
Lol why you mention me if no want make I mention you. Na ment or wetin grin grin

If Nairaland put blocking option today, na you a go first block cheesy
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by cornelboy(f): 11:24am On Oct 15, 2023
JuanDeDios:
Lol
Lol
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:36am On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
Your lies and manipulations can delude you more not others grin grin grin
You just like deceiving yourself.

Millions are working together as one big and happy family yet you say only Maximus can be deluded with thorough explanation.

What's the difference between you and atheists? cheesy
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:39am On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
Lol why you mention me if no want make I mention you. Na ment or wetin grin grin
If Nairaland put blocking option today, na you a go first block cheesy
He is just restless as if everything JWs say is all about him so he wants to silence JWs as if we must not talk to others.
Ṣebí if he doesn't want to listen no one is forcing him! smiley
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:44am On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
You should start worshipping those GODS lol cheesy cheesy
I only revere Jehovah as the one God wink
Ọmọ that's the weapon {Isaiah 54:17} apostates use to kill his faith in God's organization but he doesn't know that it's only fools that can be affected by such subtle means let him call all those apostates here i will prove to them that they are fools! Job 5:13 wink
That's why they're crying all over Nairaland as if they believe in the standard God set but in reality they are mocking God's word! cheesy
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:04pm On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
You just like deceiving yourself.

Millions are working together as one big and happy family yet you say only Maximus can be deluded with thorough explanation.

What's the difference between you and atheists? cheesy
More insanities and madness peddling

You just like deceiving yourself.
We know who was saying the holy spirit and the apostles are liars for the book of Acts 4. You can keep peddling your deceiving yourself about that. Critically the same later becomes different grin grin grin

Millions are working together as one big and happy family yet you say only Maximus can be deluded with thorough explanation.
While billons are working together as one sad family that's the heigh of your delusions, madness and insanities peddling grin grin grin

What's the difference between you and atheists?
More madness and insanities peddling coming from the person who gives people all sorts of names and labels to advance his madness and insanities peddling grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:08pm On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
While billons are working together as one sad family
YES!
Would you call your own children a family when they raise weapons against one another?
Ọmọ only Jehovah's Witnesses are the family who has resolved never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:4
If If If BILLIONS should become a family on this planet production of weapons will gradually come to an end! wink
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:10pm On Oct 15, 2023
JuanDeDios:
Well, I did a bit of that. I couldn't find any church that completely adheres to the teachings of Jesus and the apostles - which makes sense really since contexts and nuances exist in the affairs of men and so it's not possible to completely adhere to any ancient teachings.
grin grin grin grin grin

Those liars and manipulators will have us believe that Russell who was consulting all sorts of pagan beliefs and had his own studies of the scriptures which he view as Bible equivalent is the person who restored pure worship grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:13pm On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
Keep the above to yourself. Answer the questions asked by your brother accordingly the way he placed it. I don't need explanations
I (Achorladey) equally answer that question in the same order.
It is your fellow brother sorry friend in Jehovah aka Janosky that raised those questions to show why your GODS have right to teach and practise wrong doctrine. Answer the question.
You people will go about lying and manipulating the scriptures. After you are caught in your lies you start denials and come back to admit you lied.
Wow!
This is wonderful! smiley

The points in that post threw you off balance to the point where you totally forgot to add the meaningless smileys! smiley
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:13pm On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
YES!
Would you call your own children a family when they raise weapons against one another?
Ọmọ only Jehovah's Witnesses are the family who has resolved never to raise weapons against anyone again! Isaiah 2:4
If If If BILLIONS should become a family on this planet production of weapons will gradually come to an end! wink
The delusion of your yes is captured in the bold. You have already told us the evils that exist out there are done in your midst such includes Jehovah’s witnesses raising weapons to kill fellow Jehovah’s witnesses without going to war paapaa. And your religious organisation is not the only culprit in such EVILS. cheesy grin grin grin

Delusion laced with madness and insanities peddling grin grin grin grin

You don enter the trap you set for yourself. grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:16pm On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
Wow!
This is wonderful! smiley

The points in that post threw you off balance to the point where you totally forgot to add the meaningless smileys! smiley
Answer the questions your brother you share one line of thought askedgrin grin grin grin

What my smiley meant is what you want to use to divert the essence of my post.

The points in that post threw you off balance
Answer the question that's the essence of the post before you started adding more insanities and madness peddling grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:18pm On Oct 15, 2023
cornelboy:
You should start worshipping those GODS lol cheesy cheesy
I only revere Jehovah as the one God wink
Still does not remove the fact your 9 GODS seeks the help of trinitarians who worship other Gods to understand the truth about the Bible. grin grin grin

In fact what you come to accept as Bible as compiled today are the numerous works of the God of trinitarians and his subjects grin grin grin
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:20pm On Oct 15, 2023
achorladey:
grin grin grin grin grin
Those liars and manipulators will have us believe that Russell who was consulting all sorts of pagan beliefs and had his own studies of the scriptures which he view as Bible equivalent is the person who restored pure worship grin grin grin
NO!
When people are making research they can go to any length since they're not sure of whom to trust.
Before 1914 no religion was practicing the love Jehovah's Witnesses have among themselves today so what makes you think a honest hearted researcher should stick only to the Bible when all those using it are contradicting themselves?

So it's after 1914 when Jesus returned that he began working with the International Bible Students Association as they're the one and only group sincerely searching for the truth.

Today Jehovah's Witnesses are using only the Bible because we are now fully convinced that there is no other source of divine guidance apart from the Bible but before now anybody can search anywhere for the truth about the true God.
Buddhists, Hindus, Traditionalists, Judaists, Muslims are all SEARCHING for God but when Jesus returned he helped the JWs to see that only the Bible can be of help! wink
Re: Charles Taze Russel Believed In The Divinity Of Christ. by achorladey: 12:20pm On Oct 15, 2023
MaxInDHouse:
He is just restless as if everything JWs say is all about him so he wants to silence JWs as if we must not talk to others.
Ṣebí if he doesn't want to listen no one is forcing him! smiley
We already know the person peddling madness and insanities about the need for us to avoid you guys for one year. grin grin grin

You are not a man that can keep your words. Avoid them completely no even reach one month before the madness and insanities peddling resume lies and manipulations response to our post grin grin grin grin
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