Acidosis:



Miracles are real. I have seen a blind man regain his sight "live and direct" at a Reinhard Bonnke's crusade.
And no, it wasn't a fake miracle. He never called anyone to "testify" or come out to prove that his miracles are genuine. He does his thing and leaves. My encounter happened right in the midst of a huge crowd. People who noticed this particular miracle won't be more than 5 as things were happening at different points at a time.

Melagros:

Which Reinhardt Bonkie are you talking about? All na arrangements, we took our niece suffering from down syndrome during his crusade in jos. After laying his hands on her, why wasn't she healed till she died?

Truthfullone19:
I agree, however that is not the reason behind that in this case. If I were to get you lift up a bag of rice for an elderly lady struggling to life a load, there is nothing wrong with that. However if I ask you to help the woman and then I bring out a camera and start recording, with a voice over saying my organization helps the poor and needy and give them food, then I am manipulating the scene for my agenda.

This is a simple allegory that best explains what is happening at CE. Don't get a bunch of sick folks to run around jubilating as though healed, whilst making the crowds think they have been made whole.

Odidigboigbo:
I understand you better. But confession of faith and action of faith really works. I have used it in a couple of times and it has worked for me.

Melagros:

Which Reinhardt Bonkie are you talking about? All na arrangements, we took our niece suffering from down syndrome during his crusade in jos. After laying his hands on her, why wasn't she healed till she died?

JooEeL:


The difference is that I would never call you an 'unbeliever' , 'kufar', or 'pagan' or 'gentile'. These are terms that were used in old times to chastise and ostracise supposed kith and kin.

I believe in my ancestry, I believe in Ifa, Orunmila, Obatala... If you do not believe in Ifa, do you see any word harassment by Ifa adherents to people who dont believe in Ifa?

As blacks, we must begin to learn how to engage in arguments without labelling for the purpose of ostracising. This was usually the first step, before attacking and even killing them.

How would a foreign religion make me look at my fellow Yoruba man and call him an 'unbeliever' or 'infidel'? This is d worst of d worst of mental slavery.

FOOTSOLDIER2:



Okay, thank you. But how is it possible to keep up with falsehood over a long period, talk of decades?

Basic123:

Lying to promote the kingdom of God is allowed!
As long as the kingdom of God flourishes.
Even Paul apostles said it
“If through my lie, God's truth was magnified. Why am I judge as a sinner?” (Romans 3:7)?

Basic123:

Lying to promote the kingdom of God is allowed!
As long as the kingdom of God flourishes.
Even Paul apostles said it
“If through my lie, God's truth was magnified. Why am I judge as a sinner?” (Romans 3:7)?

olson:


‭‭Romans 3:7-8 NIV‬‬
[7] Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” [8] Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

https://bible.com/bible/111/rom.3.7.NIV

Stop misleading people. That's the whole verse. Paul is not trying to expand the kingdom of God through falsehood but condemning people who are trying to justify falsehood to say they are trying to expand the kingdom of God.

Melagros:

Which Reinhardt Bonkie are you talking about? All na arrangements, we took our niece suffering from down syndrome during his crusade in jos. After laying his hands on her, why wasn't she healed till she died?

Melagros:

Which Reinhardt Bonkie are you talking about? All na arrangements, we took our niece suffering from down syndrome during his crusade in jos. After laying his hands on her, why wasn't she healed till she died?

ednut1:
Cobhams and yinka ayefele dey there. Heal them

Truthfullone19:
Sadly I too was a victim of what I can only call the greatest scam in the modern day history of the Pentecostal church. A well played out scam which is enabled by the likes of deaconess Gbadamosi, Brother Dele, Pastor Shola, Reverend Owase, Reverend Tom and no other person but pastor Chris. I experienced his scam all the way back in the early 2000's and had I not known the Lord, I sincerely would have walked away from the faith. Before you start reading, I ask that you speak to the Lord and as a believer expect him to give you answers. He's your father, so asking him to help you know truth is part of his will. I only could tell one person in the world about my experience that night after a build up from the so called healing school. I later on recounted it to one other person, but sadly they were too fragile and such a truth would break their bubble, so they refused to hear anything. Eventually they came round to knowing that it was all true. I had always wondered why women could get raped and not speak, but abuse is something that takes years to speak about. Some of you wonderful sisters who were abused have never spoken about it, and some of you sick men who have abused other ladies sometimes live in fear of your victims speaking out one day. Weirdly, some do speak out and also some don't. Some of you men are actually in churches and walk around almost free, and if this can happen to guilty men, imagine the support a ministry like Christ has in suppressing claims made against them. From thousands of brainwashed members, to a media empire. Let's not forget that these are media ministries which have one way traffic, you only see what they want you to see. I wish I get to meet sir John one day, for he is truly a blessing to those who seek truth. Sinach and all the rest of the families are also fully aware of the scams they portray to thousands of innocents and an audience wanting to be deceived. It's no wonder the ministry operates a system of nepotism and it reigns in that place. From brothers, to sister in-laws, to all you can name, you find the whole lot there. A system where total allegiance is required to continue fooling millions of people. Only a handful of people would even dare bring these accusations before the Lord, but would rather scream words like envy, bitterness etc. I do not know how the cry of people for justice has turned to bitterness, I guess only under Christ Embassy. The same behaviour was revealed when their beloved mama in the Lord Reverend Anita decided to say adiós to the madness going on there. One of the only people allowed to climb the stage of meetings and wear the white suit, was suddenly called bitter by those who would have rolled over the floor Kandahaying and kabashing in so called other tongues, had she touched them. Suddenly, simply because pastor Chris portrays her as not valuable, like zombies they cast her away. The very same woman they had boldly told people had enough grace to live seperately from her husband. When people began to question the separate lives of the top echelon of Christ embassy, the new policy was pushed on to have certain church workers in different branches, simply to take heat off the questions about the marriage. A few weeks to the announcement of the divorce, the ministry pushed out a statement saying nothing was wrong, but I guess time was the best revealer of truths. At each phase, sadly the members morph into defenders of what ever line the ministry goes in, whether right or wrong. Continued...

FatherCHRISTMAS:

If he heals them, you would still have a reason to doubt his miracles.

Both Cobhams and aiyefele are probably comfortable with their situation that's why they haven't visited his church yet.
One day if they decide to visit, they'll be made new if they believe.


These things are real and they work on faith and believing

honeyB2018:

But you didn't state what they did to you wrong after this long epistle,
Can we hear it?

Truthfullone19:
Read this article I wrote on page 9 and that of sir John in 2008 that details events at the healing school. These are first had reports of people at the healing school and many are now coming out to say it's a scam. Hundreds can verify that it's a scam. Watch these pastor Chris videos with this knowledge in mind. The two videos below


https://www.nairaland.com/8039722/pastor-chris-heals-nine-people/8#129081350


https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0gJL1ciXbA?si=ONPVlTH0RRTm-jhF



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLvgNFV4eks&t=30s


I have asked questions here and not single Christ embassy member can give answers. I'll ask them once again


For CE members please answer these questions. Below. I'm asking once again.


Did the lady on the voiceover, Pastor Chris and others give the impression that they were healed?

Why do they all have similar celebrations and a striking pattern?

Why do a lot who are waiving their hands still look dejected if you look closely?

Could they all get off wheelchairs and stretchers before this meeting?

Was the impression painted that they could not get off a wheelchair etc?

Why are they all celebrating in the same way, hands up etc?

If pastor Chris does do Miracles, why would he need to fake some or deceive the public of a false perception of healings taking place?

Is pastor Chris really like your regular church preacher who has one or two so called miracles with loads of trickery added to increase numbers?


How many percent do you think were healed?

How many of these were portrayed as being healed from the videos you watched?


Why can't pastor Chris minister outside an atmosphere that he doesn't have control of?

Why can't he minister in a country without a huge Christ embassy audience. Jesus said go into the world, not countries that have your moulded audience to preach.


Why has it taken Christ Embassy members days to come back with any answers?


As I said, only a handful of people on earth have access to the healing school.

Peter popoff pulled off similar stunts, find video here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLKXRVScOwE?si=IZv6MiqtAmfMsP7A

FatherCHRISTMAS:


It took me some time and I have watched them as you requested. I must say I'm speechless.

But I what If it's just coincidence and the way you see it, isn't the way it really is. Although everything fits

FatherCHRISTMAS:


It took me some time and I have watched them as you requested. They don't look sad or dejected

But I what If it's just coincidence and the way you see it, isn't the way it really is. Although everything fits

Acidosis:


Everything in life na arrangement, my brother. Even a surgical procedure na arrangement. Some make it out of the theatre while others don't. God arranges things the way he pleases. I'm 100% sure that not everyone who attended the programme I went to in Okene, Kogi state in 2003 received what they came for. God does what He pleases, when He pleases, how He pleases, and uses whom He pleases for reasons best known by Him. All na arrangements.

By the way, I'm sorry about the passing of your niece. Questioning God about why your niece had to die is akin to asking Reinhard Bonnke himself why he underwent femur surgery or why he passed away at the age of 70+. So, you see, he was merely an instrument in the hands of the ultimate arranger.

Truthfullone19:

You just modified your statement which shows deceit which isn't from a good God..here is your original statement below.

Babinski:


I have witnessed true healing at a Reinhard Bonnke crusade, so I have no doubts about his genuineness as a Man of God. Now it is important for you to understand some points:

1. It is God that does healing and not man. And in this regard I talk about genuine Christian miracles and not the works of sorcerers and their apprentices.

2. The Man of God can pray or lay hands of people and they may be healed. Note that the healing is done by God and at His discretion. Just like when a Man of God preaches, the conviction for salvation that is the winning of soul is done by the Holy Spirit.

3. A Man of God is in the business of preaching, winning souls and discipling them. Signs and Wonders or Miracles are only to accompany him and assist him in doing his primary assignment successfully.

4. God is not a Babalawo, Healer or Hospital whose primary duty is solving your problems or healing you of physical illness or deformities. When you go to Babalawo, Healers and Hospitals, they are not interested in your sins, your faith or the salvation of your soul. What they do is attempt to heal you and get paid for the service. That is not God and that is not how His miracles work.

Come to God for the salvation of your souls and with faith in Him as the Almighty God which is more.important than any physical healing. He can and may heal you of infirmities but even when He chooses to delay or not heal you of them, He provides grace that overshadow the infirmities. That is why Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:8-9 said:

8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.


A true Ma of God knows he is not the one doing the healings and when he prays and lays hands and God does not heal you, he does not go about faking it. He submits to God and God may or may not sow him why the healing did not take place. That is why it is easy for Elisha the mighty Man of God to say regarding the Shunammite woman when she held his feet and Gehazi wanted to push her away in 2 Kings 4:27: “Leave her alone! She is in bitter distress, but the Lord has hidden it from me and has not told me why.”. Mind you this is the same Elisha with double the anointing of Elijah and through whom God raised the dead.

The long and short of it is that if Bonnke laid hands on your niece and she was not healed, it is God that chose not to heal her for reasons best known to Him. And Bonnke will not throw any theatrics, try to fake it or persuade you with any manipulation as if to defend his inability to heal her because he knows he is just a conduit. That is one of the hallmarks of a genuine Man of God.

FatherCHRISTMAS:


Hello Kobo I did had a good reason why I modified my post to remove that sentence.
That doesn't mean any level of deceit rather, I reevaluated my conclusion.

Which is fine by me

Truthfullone19:

You just modified your statement which shows deceit which isn't from a good God..here is your original statement below.

FatherCHRISTMAS:


It's good to ask questions and raise awareness when something doesn't seem to conform to Christ's standards.
I believe you are on a good course but you need to be able to prove beyond reasonable doubts these deliverance aren't genuine.

It takes alot of guts to hire over 9 people to pull of a drama and expect them not to tell their friends and families about it.

Can you really prove these things beyond reasonable doubt? Apart from these videos? Can you provide the people who were healed?

Know also that a man can lose his healing if he goes back to his old ways. Let's say a cripple was healed, he can become crippled again if he goes back to his old ways or don't pray enough.

Truthfullone19:
It shows clear deceit or a confused mind which isn't what God gives his children. Mature spiritually, take a stand and run with it till the end. Don't be like the double minded man the book of James 1 speaks about, rather Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong according to 1 cor 16:13.

In other words Paul was quoting the Philistines who went in faith to attack the Israelites on one occasion.

“Be strong, and quit yourselves like men, O ye Philistines, that ye be not servants unto the Hebrews, as they have been to you: quit yourselves like men, and fight . 1 sam.4:16


It was a do or die affair, they had made up their minds, stuck to their resolve and obtained a victory when Israel walked in disobedience. It's a resolve to being steadfast..


‭I Samuel 4:6-10 NKJV‬

[6] Now when the Philistines heard the noise of the shout, they said, “What does the sound of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews mean?” Then they understood that the ark of the Lord had come into the camp. [7] So the Philistines were afraid, for they said, “God has come into the camp!” And they said, “Woe to us! For such a thing has never happened before. [8] Woe to us! Who will deliver us from the hand of these mighty gods? These are the gods who struck the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness. [9] Be strong and conduct yourselves like men, you Philistines, that you do not become servants of the Hebrews, as they have been to you. Conduct yourselves like men, and fight!” [10] So the Philistines fought, and Israel was defeated, and every man fled to his tent. There was a very great slaughter, and there fell of Israel thirty thousand foot soldiers.

Truthfullone19:
Read my article for crying out loud. They aren't hired, they are being fooled based on what they are told to do to receive their healings.. that is why all the celebrations at the healing school are virtually the same.

Read page 9 of this thread, the very long writeups, you'll find about 5 of them on the same page. Read, read and read.. here is the link

I asked CE members questions and not one of them with their so called wisdom of the spirit can give an answer.. I am a first hand participant of the healing school, sent there for weeks and it is a sad place once it's over. Participants are literally barred once they get the footage they need to fool the crowd.


Read that article.

The reason folks think they are healed is because if the following.

Pastor Chris came in, he laid hands on them and they all start jumping round celebrating. I covered why they celebrate the way they do. Not one single person was healed amongst those who got of the wheelchairs t the last meeting. If you can't get off a wheelchair, you can never meet pastor Chris oyakhilome, Rev Tom ,Eddy useless please, pastor Shola, pastor dele and Deaconess Gbadamosi all ensure of this.

https://www.nairaland.com/8039722/pastor-chris-heals-nine-people/8

It starts off with sadly I woo was a victim of Christ embassy's healing school. Keep reading..

AjalaDtraveller:

My dear I was in this same healing school for 3 weeks and the final when Chris came when they do this live "healing service" I saw able bodies people asked to climb on this stretchers. Take a close look at thier legs, body they all look able bodied! I saw the real crippled people unattended to. I saw so many things that I cannot write at a go. Even my friend who walks with a limp had to go to India for surger because he wasn't healed like so many people I saw. I wonder how this man over the years has been able to continue with this charade.

FatherCHRISTMAS:

If he heals them, you would still have a reason to doubt his miracles.

Both Cobhams and aiyefele are probably comfortable with their situation that's why they haven't visited his church yet.
One day if they decide to visit, they'll be made new if they believe.


These things are real and they work on faith and believing

Truthfullone19:
Having gone to the healing school at Alausa Ikeja, it used to be held in the main ground of an auditorium that had some sort of zinc structure with pillars on it. The scam of the healing school is such that the victim is the one who uses their hands to shoot themselves in the foot. It is carefully scripted so that the victim makes himself a target if he tries to speak up. Most other ministries apply the same method whenever anyone tries to speak against them and expose their tricks. I went to the healing school for an ailment and had always followed pastor Chris since the late 90's. The first part of the healing school is where you are interviewed and details of what is wrong is written and take note off. A video is made of each participant, stating thier names, Thier ailments, how long for etc. (Three major videos form part of the intricate scam which is used to fool the world and possible hold its victims to Ransom). This here is the first phase of the scam. Those attending the healing school have to sign confidentiality forms stating not to speak of events at the healing school. You are then told to attend classes etc, and there are different groups of people within the healing school. Those with visible ailments (totally blind, totally crippled etc), none visible ailments such as HIV, diabetes, partial blindness etc. All sorts of stories are then told to people about the so called miracles that happen there, videos of crusades etc. On the outside it looks innocent and plain until you dig deeper. As you attend the healing school, you are then also told that to secure your healing, pastor Chris must lay hands on you on the night of a major meeting, night of bliss, cross over night etc and that is the pattern. Attendees are told that failure to get hands laid on by pastor Chris would lead to a loss of healing along the line. Pastor Chris comes to the main meeting, they beam the video to the crowd, he lays his hands, so called miracles occur (I'll come to that part) and the innocent victims in that scene shoot themselves in the foot. The usual teachings on confessions are taught throughout the so called time at the healing school. Some people attend the healing school for years and don't get to see pastor Chris, months and weeks depending on how visible their ailments are. The more visible the ailment of the person was who attended the healing school, and the the harder it is for CE to scam people with their tricks, the less likely they were to graduate and get to be prayed for by pastor Chris. People attend the healing school and there is a massive filtering of those who the crowd get to see. As sir John stated, it is what pastor Chris wants you to see that you get to see. Those who can walk, but need wheelchairs as an aid are definitely classed as having passed their course at the healing school and qualified to meet pastor Chris. Those without visible ailments are also classed as having passed their course and qualified to meet pastor Chris. Topics such as how to receive your helaling are looked at and general scriptures on healing etc. Confession and acts of faith are taught to people. Let's touch on the recieving part which plays into the script. The sick are told of how to respond when pastor comes into the room and how to receive their healing. Don't just stand there when he comes into the hall of the healing school, you have to learn how to receive a miracle. Don't stiffen your body but let the anointing flow. Faith calls the things that be not as though they are. When he lays hands on you, jump around, celebrate, scream I am healed, even though your body might not seem healed. Anchor yourself on this part and go through healing school videos to see how they celebrate when they are touched by pastor Chris. With some woman in the background, you hear things like "the man of God walks into the room and lays hands on them, she falls on the ground, they are healed. Suddenly they stand up and are healed. They jump around, they wave their hands in the air praising God. I'm quite sure we've seen this many times. Regarding falling, look up the ministries of Peter popoff who was exposed as using an earpiece to receive information on the sick from his wife, the info he passed on as words of knowledge were from prayer cards the sick had filled at healing classes, prior to the main meeting where they were to be healed. They fell under the supposed power, and were being deceived right under their noses. This video is only 16 minutes long, the original was 9 minutes long max, so please watch it..

Truthfullone19:
Insults, bitterness and frustration seem to be key words in your replies. That lacks the fruits of the spirit my friend.

There is no such thing as bitterness or frustration as u said. But, u have to be stopped from derailing the unlearned in the things of God. The man u accused of being a scam has done alot of good to the body of Christ. The issue of faith is not for the canally minded like u. For the past 16yrs I have never taken any drug because of the man u accused teachings some years ago. I know of close friends and relatives that has been healed from his programs. U calling him a scam means u are just meddlimg in an affair u know nothing about or u are just an antichrist.