Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 11:08pm On Apr 19 |
budaatum:Is it Untrue that An item is tangible if it can be defined in terms of its mass or dimension or energy? What is your definition of tangible? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 11:11pm On Apr 19 |
budaatum:Can you touch an information? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 11:14pm On Apr 19 |
budaatum:Real and Tangible do not mean the same thing! Show me anything you know that is tangible but does not have any of mass or dimension or energy? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 11:32pm On Apr 19 |
TenQ: LoLz. Use those 2 remaining cells so you stop knocking your thick skull against something so simple. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 11:34pm On Apr 19 |
LordReed: My Lord, tangible does not only mean touch. It also means feel, see, hear, etc. If you can observe the "images on a screen or mirror", then those images on a screen or mirror are tangible in their own right since you can see and observe it, which you could not possibly do if it were intangible. I do not need to "directly touch the software itself" in the machine, though I can argue that I could if I wanted to since I could very easily decompile the software so I can see it, which is what one does if one wants to debug the code in the machine. The point is that I must write tangible code in a tangible format on a tangible medium and tangibly give it to a tangible compiler to convert it to machine readable code that some are here claiming is intangible. I can even decompile the machine readable code back into its tangible human readable code, which I am arguing can not be done if the code in the machine is not tangible in itself. Just think. I can be sitting here in my home instructing you in my mind to stick your fingers in your eyes, but the intangibility of that instruction would be obvious because you would neither see nor hear nor feel it in anyway and would not be able to follow the instruction in my mind. But as soon as I make the intangible instruction in my mind tangible for you to hear or read or see, you will be able to either follow it or tell me to go do one. The contention here is the tangibility of the code when it is in the machine, but that to me sounds like asking me to prove with my naked eye that there is machine code in the machine, which is simply oxymoronic since I am not limited to proving anything only with my naked eyes and not with all my other senses. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by triplechoice(m): 11:39pm On Apr 19 |
budaatum:They won't answer it . I'm very sure of that. You can already see they're only interested in having theirs answered and not those of others. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 11:41pm On Apr 19 |
budaatum: No my dear buda it only refers to touch.
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| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 11:52pm On Apr 19 |
TenQ:Then I think you should provide your definition of tangible, since I have provided mine which does suggest they are. budaatum: The software in an AI machine is tangible and real since it can be shown and touched and experienced if you don't limit yourself to your naked eyes. Air one breathes is definitely tangible, as you will find if you hold your nose and cover your mouth for 5 minutes. TenQ:Don't you think it is rude to not answer questions you are asked and expect answers to your questions? Machine code in an AI machine is tangible despite not having mass or dimension, though I'd argue it has energy, since it can produce an action. Thoughts in my head are tangible to me despite not having mass or dimension, though those thoughts are intangible to others. I'd also argue that my thought have energy since I think before I act. Now, would you kindly answer my questions to you? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 11:57pm On Apr 19 |
LordReed: It would, my Lord, especially if you limit yourself to the most basic meaning. Below is a definition that includes the use of all the senses, which is obviously far more than just that of touching. https://www.thefreedictionary.com/intangible
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| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 12:04am On Apr 20 |
TenQ: I don't need to just "touch" any information! You must hear information or see it or read it or feel it for it to inform you. I can't just sit in my house thinking up intangible thoughts of what I am tangibly informing you in this thread without making it tangible so you can read it! If the instruction of a fire alarm in a burning house was not tangible for you to hear it, you will remain in the house and burn! |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by triplechoice(m): 12:04am On Apr 20 |
TenQ: Maybe the person who brought you up is donkey and that's why you're quick to insult others who haven't insulted you first We're discussing "A" here but you came to talk "Z" and without any provocation from me you starting insulting me and think you're sane? Something really must be wrong with you. Go and Google "the five whys of insanity" to understand yourself better. Your behaviour is symptomatic of something really bad you need to know and get cured before it becomes to late. There's absolutely nothing in computer sciences that informs anyone that the prerequisite for understanding what's spirits is a knowledge computer of softwares , or is it in your Bible you read that nonsense from ? You're just lieing to yourself and believing that with the brain dead JW member hailing you from the sidelines and you're feeling funky. Yeye. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 12:14am On Apr 20 |
triplechoice: They insult to provoke one to not express oneself intelligently and resort to insult slinging like they do and don't understand it just shows they don't know what they are talking about. It's why I remain calm so they can continue to make their lack of knowledge tangible so it can be seen. Atheist me learnt it from their God book too.
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| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 12:28am On Apr 20 |
KnownUnknown: It would be interesting if they do, but I doubt they have the intellectual capacity for it considering, which is a pity since they could easily be arguing that the spirit is the tangible instruction or what not in the machines that they are. Of course I would argue that it is not the spirit that is the instruction in them, but the tangible God book their pastors have coded in to them, which relies on the pastor's understanding and ability to code, and which might not be as good as they think. Or perhaps it's their compiler (their ability to understand) that is at fault. 1 Like |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by StillDtruth: 3:42am On Apr 20 |
triplechoice: Were you not corrected that no one from our side made that claim? Does the thread not show that you are the one who made ithat claim? Then you are the one to answer it , not us! |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by StillDtruth: 4:01am On Apr 20 |
budaatum: What is there to return to when everyone can see that you people truly know that the spirit does exist but you people have been lying and pretending all along? The matter is concluded and settled and now the everyone can see that you atheists were Lying and Pretending all along, just like Satan does,  |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 6:29am On Apr 20 |
budaatum:This is where you get it completely wrong AGAIN By Definition: Anything that is tangible will have at least one of these properties: mass, spatial dimension (length), Energy. This is what make it perceivable which physical senses hence which can be shown and touched and experienced. There is not one single equipment other than with another software with which one can even perceive a software code. It seems all I ve been telling you about software did not meet with any understanding! My dear: Software in a Machine do not produce any Action because they are INFORMATION, DATA and INSTRUCTIONS. Its just like if Tinubu gives an Instruction that Bobrisky be released from prison tomorrow and he is released, you now conclude that the information is tangible. Information is REAL (it exists) but never TANGIBLE (can be handled). The information it NOT the paper on which it is written, The information it NOT the ink by which it is written, The information it NOT the language by which it is written, The information it NOT the style which it is written, Information is about Decoding intended meaning of Actions or Signals made by someone or something If you cannot understand this, too bad! |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 6:34am On Apr 20 |
LordReed:budaatum refuses to learn even with correction. And of course you know this and that is why you refuse to answer my question 4 and 5 Anything that is tangible will have at least one of these properties: mass, spatial dimension (length), Energy. This is what make it perceivable which physical senses hence which can be shown and touched and experienced. There is not one single equipment other than with another software with which one can even perceive a software code. Tell me you don't understand the implications of these two questions below? Questions: 4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist? 5. Tell me, how can one prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 6:43am On Apr 20 |
budaatum:Tell me: As you are reading this post, 1. Is the information your Device (Phone, Laptop etc) 2. Is the information the strings of text Characters you see? 3. Is the information the electromagnetic wave that carried the message to your electronic device? 4. Is the information the Decoded message in your brain of the things you see? If you don't understand English nor read English, will this post be gibberish or information? Do you concur that Until a data or signal is decoded, it remains gibberish The Question had been very easy: 1. If an existence is not tangible i.e. cannot be measured in terms of Mass, Dimension, Energy and Time, does it prove it doesn't exist? 2. Is a software within a machine REAL or not? 3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" by any physical means? 4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist? 5. Tell me, how can one prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software? |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 6:44am On Apr 20 |
triplechoice:Go take care of yourself! |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 8:17am On Apr 20 |
Do you not think it is rude not to answer questions you are asked and expect answers to your questions? TenQ:The information is obviously the words you have written which I have obviously read and now respond to. TenQ:The information is carried by the string of text. TenQ:No. TenQ:The information is the string of text. Decoding it with my brain allows me to be informed by it. TenQ:Whether I can read English or not does not make the information you have conveyed less of the information that it is. It would only be gibberish to me if I don't understand English. In itself it is not necessarily gibberish. For instance, if you wrote it in Chinese which I can not read, it still is not gibberish. TenQ:No, I do not concur any such nonsense! Whether you decode the information conveyed by a fire alarm in a burning building or not does not make the information gibberish. It just means you don't understand the information because you are stupid! TenQ:Now, this is where you confuse yourself. You think tangible and existence are the same thing. A thing can be intangible and still exist. An example is a companies intangible assets like its goodwill. Tangible or intangible does not prove or disprove existence. TenQ:Software in a machine is real. TenQ:Yes it can. It can be taken out of the machine and can be measured and quantified. It can also be measured by its effect (as in the energy it produces). TenQ:You tell me, since you are the one insisting "on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exists". Personally, I would just switch on the machine to see if it does what the software I put in the machine does what I wrote the software to do, and if it doesn't I will check first if the software is actually in the machine or not, and if the software actually works. TenQ:Please tell me why I should prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software, if that is what I want to do? Regardless, I don't think I would need to prove the existence of Microsoft Windows in a machine with another software or not. After we boot up the machine we would know if Microsoft Windows was in the machine or not. We can also just check the computers hard drive to see if Microsoft Windows is installed on it. If you however want to insist we have used MsDos to do that, I have no problem at all. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 8:52am On Apr 20 |
TenQ: It is you who doesn't understand the implications of this answer: LordReed: to those questions. Think some more. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by TenQ: 9:02am On Apr 20 |
budaatum:pardon me. It is no intentional, you may repost the questions. i thought your main question was for me to define what was meant by "tangible" and I defined it; please check budaatum:The information is NOT the PC or Phone or hardware budaatum:The information is not the string of text, otherwise, Thy rein gn spbin fulls maily ig thn plune! is a string of text, but is it information? budaatum:The string of text is NO information if it cannot be decoded. Before the String of text becomes meaningful, there has to be first a Pre-agreed formula for decoding it budaatum:Before a string of text make any meaning, there must first be an AGREEMENT of the use of code. For instance, if I give you a PRIOR sequence of code for the string of text Thy rein gn spbin fulls maily ig thn plune! as spbin=spain, rein=rain, Thy=The, fulls=falls, maily=mainly, ig= in, thn=the, plune=plane The string of text THEN will have a meaning. Conclusion: The string of text is NOTHING without and agreed Code for decoding it. This was why we went ot school to learn the alphabets and words ans sentences etc budaatum:The Question was: Do you concur that Until a data or signal is decoded, it remains gibberish? The software for a Mac is meaningless for Android and is meaningless for a PC because the decoding the code is not standard between them. Meaning that it is not the Software code that is important BUT the pre-agreed code of understanding. budaatum:True BUT not Tangible! budaatum:Thge Question was: 3. Can the software within a machine be "measured" or "quantified" by any physical means? The Answer is NO! The HDD or Flash Drive is NOT the information . It is just the Hardware medium budaatum:The Question was: 4. Is it wisdom to insist on a physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist? It is actually stupidity to INSIST on physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist because, truely a software exist in the machine BUT there is no known physical means by which it can be verified. budaatum:Because it is an IMPOSSIBILITY! budaatum:[b]The Question was: [/b]5. Tell me, how can one prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software? There is NO way to prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software: it doesn't exist |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 9:18am On Apr 20 |
TenQ:And why is it a problem whether I perceive a software code with another software or not? I equally can not perceive a virus unless I use a device to perceive it, but you would not claim the virus does not exist because I can not perceive it with my naked eye. Or would you? TenQ:Please just listen to the gibberish you wrote there! You call it "INFORMATION, DATA and INSTRUCTIONS", and yet claim it does not produce an action! Did you write the software so badly that it produced no action? An action is produced if information instructs! Your machine will return an error code If your instruction were gibberish. TenQ:Interesting. Does the fact that Bobrisky is released following Tinubu's given instruction not in effect mean that Tinubu's instruction has been handled? If the information was not tangible, it would not have been perceived at all, and would be the equivalent of Tinubu just thinking the instruction in his head without making it tangible for anyone to hear it and be instructed by it so they can handle it. Tinubu's instruction can only be handled if he makes his instruction perceivable to the senses Otherwise, you would need software to read Tinubu's mind. TenQ:I agree. The information is the message conveyed by the ink and the language and the style, all of which are what make the information tangible. If you were just thinking it in your head, your message would be intangible to me, but it could still be argued that it is tangible to only you. This, by the way, would be the logical argument of a person who claims they perceive spirits. The spirit is real and tangible to those who perceive spirits, but intangible and unreal to an atheist who doesn't. TenQ:Not necessarily. The fire alarm in a burning building is conveying information regardless of your ability to decode the information and receive the message conveyed or not. I could write this information you are currently readind in Hindu, which I doubt you can read. But your inability to decode it does not mean it is not information. It would just mean that you are not informed by it since you can not decode it. TenQ:And this just proves the point, which is that you have conveyed information in your post, whether I understand it or not. What makes it information is the fact that you have made it tangible so you can transmit it to me so I can read it and be informed by it. You inform with it by placing it in a dimension and infuse it with Energy so it can be observed in Time, which is your definition of tangible. I would not have this particular information in this post to handle if you you had not made it tangible for me to handle it with my senses, as I have very clearly done. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 10:28am On Apr 20 |
TenQ:TenQ, please read me carefully. A string of text is not information. Your response to me is not just a string of text, but text that has meaning, and the fact that it has meaning is what makes your post informative. You will note that others are quoting me here but I am ignoring them. The reason is that their posts lack the depth of meaning and information that yours have, which is why I enjoy conversing with you. TenQ:The first sentence is not true. I may be stupid or unwilling to decode (understand) your string of text and it can still be information. One may not know how to decode the information conveyed by a fire alarm in a burning building but the fire alarm is still conveying information, and those who call it gibberish are likely to end up dead! TenQ:I agree. But you may still write Thy rein gn spbin fulls maily ig thn plune! without giving me the code and still be conveying information. The only difference is that the information you would be conveying would not be decodable by me, and I might conclude that it is gibberish to me, but it is not necessarily gibberish to you who wrote it. Basically, the lack of understanding does not mean a data is gibberish. One might just be stupid or ignorant or just not have the code. TenQ:Not true Tenq, that a "string of text is NOTHING without an agreed Code for decoding it". It just means that that string of text means nothing to the individual who does not have the code to decode it. Neither of us went to school to learn Hindi, but I hope we would not claim a Hindi speaker is saying nothing because we can not decode it. TenQ:And I answered you. A Hindi speaker is not speaking gibberish just because we can not decode Hindi. TenQ:Yes, "software for a Mac is meaningless for Android and is meaningless for a PC because the decoding the code is not standard between them", just as speaking Hindi to either of us would be meaningless to us. But that does not mean what the Hindi speaker is saying is meaningless, just as the software for a Mac is not meaningless. It just doesn't mean anything to the Android or the PC. TenQ:But it must be tangible for it to be perceived by the machine! Read what you wrote above please. The Mac software is meaningless to the PC and the Android because Mac software is not tangible to the Android and the PC. Basically, the Android and the PC do not have the right 'senses' for the Mac software to be perceived by them. TenQ:This question arose in the very early posts in this thread where it was assumed that ones must perceive with the naked eye. I suggest you go back and read it because I do fail to understand the importance of only perceiving with the naked eye or only physical means when one can enhance ones perception and then perceive. You can very clearly perceive the effect of the software in the machine, just as you can clearly see the effect of electricity in the machine too. And you can take the software out of the machine and decompile it so you can perceive it, which is exactly what is done if one wants to debug the software. TenQ:This is a senseless question since there are much better ways to prove the existence of software in a machine than the physical quantification of a software within a machine. But if you do want to physically quantify a software in a machine to see if it exists, you can very easily check if the software is on the harddrive. TenQ:I agree. And that is the reason why I have not insisted anywhere that anyone should "INSIST on physical quantification of a software within a machine to conclude that it exist"! That said, if you check for the software on the harddrive of the machine, albeit with other software as opposed to with the naked eye, you might be able to see if the software is in the machine or not. TenQ:This part, however, is not true. If the software does what the software is written to do, one may conclude the software is in the machine. Also, one can check the harddrive of the machine to see if the software is installed on it. And both are valid "physical" means of verification. TenQ:Just as it is impossible to see a virus with the naked eye, I suppose, but as said, why would I limit myself to perceiving with the naked eye when I can enhance my perception with aids (software) so I can see better? TenQ:I think it is time for me to tell you that I will tell you no such thing since I do not intend to "prove the existence of a software WITHIN an AI machine's CPU or MEMORY without the use of another software". If there is no software in the machine, the machine itself will tell you there is no software in it as soon as you switch it on and ask the software that is not in it to do what you wrote the software to do in the machine. If you don't have Microsoft Word in your machine, any attempt to open and run and use Microsoft Word on that machine will fail, and that should be sufficient evidence that Microsoft Word might not be on that particular machine. Of course it might be that you did put Microsoft Word on the machine, in which case I'd expect you'd check the hard drive to see whether it is installed properly or not, but asking to do that "without the use of another software" is like asking to do so without electricity or a battery and just by looking at the hardware, which is stupid if nothing else. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 10:30am On Apr 20 |
TenQ: I'm afraid the correction is wrong. Touch is not the only sense.
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| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by KnownUnknown: 11:14am On Apr 20 |
Buda is right about tangible https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tangible 1 a : capable of being perceived especially by the sense of touch : PALPABLE b : substantially real : MATERIAL 2 : capable of being precisely identified or realized by the mind her grief was tangible |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by KnownUnknown: 11:19am On Apr 20 |
After seven pages and all the software shenanigans, I conclude that intangibility is another attribute of this spirit thing. The working definition of spirit is “non physical, invincible, and intangible” aka nothing  1 Like |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 12:32pm On Apr 20 |
budaatum: So is the image in the mirror tangible or intangible. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 12:34pm On Apr 20 |
KnownUnknown: 7 pages of round and round arguments about semantics with no point on what spirit is or how we can know it exists. Sounds exactly like nothing. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 12:40pm On Apr 20 |
LordReed: The image in a mirror is tangible because it can be perceived with the senses. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by LordReed(m): 12:55pm On Apr 20 |
budaatum: Do me a solid and post the meaning of tangible from the same source you used for intangible. |
| Re: Atheist Says Spirit Is Nothing Because It Is Non Physical & Invisible by budaatum: 1:04pm On Apr 20 |
LordReed: There. Though Unknown's defines it better, as does wiki.
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