stillchris:
madam humble, please just close this thread. that will be much better than deleting posts. we are still going to take shots at each other cos it's an argument, a sensitive one for that matter

DieVluit:


Hehe, what did you do Auguby? You know your world will end if the thread got closed.

stillchris:


you don't get it. it's the beef that's the excitement in this thread. without the beef it'll just be one boring thread. hope mod will just chill and delete only racist and hate comments. cos I'll still like to give you round two of a5s whooping. .

DieVluit:
Look, guys, it's easy to criticise the moderator. Yeah, some military related posts have been hidden (e.g. Henry's posts from yesterday), but we've also failed to self-regulate. When new people come on here to spew hate and racism, some of us play along (I am guilty of that myself) or we sit on the sidelines and allow the mess to build up on itself. We shouldn't be surprised that the thread is misunderstood by moderators. We have failed to protect it.

This is the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

EVarn:
what are you saying,what 'hate and racism' are been 'spewed'?,arent the people on this thread africans(blacks)?,so what racism do you accuse 'newcomers' of perpetrating?,has anyone on this thread shot the other dead over an arguement?,so what hate to you claim exists?...this thread is just a way to catch fun and get interesting information about perculiar events all over africa!,i personally come here looking for an intellectual topics to amuse myself.

Henry120:
The Uselessness of the SANDF.
The South African National Defense Force - A Military in Freefall
Despite an eagerness to use the South African National Defense Force (SANDF) as a means of projecting the nation's influence abroad, there is evidence that South Africa's government has so neglected or mismanaged its military assets that it may soon be unable to defend itself, much less engage in international adventures.
Last year, Roelf Meyer, the chairman of South Africa's defense review committee, identified a number of strategic goals for the SANDF, including:
· Maintaining the security of South Africa's borders;
· Promoting peace and security in Africa;
· Assisting civil authorities in policing or anti-poaching efforts;
· Establishing South Africa as a responsible leading member of the African Union;
· Responding to new regional threats such as piracy (Business Day [Johannesburg], April 13, 2012).
However, with a reduced force size and inadequate resources, the SANDF will soon have difficulty meeting most of these goals.
Life in the South African military is not seen as desirable by many potential recruits. Pay can be erratic, HIV rates are as high as 25% (making these troops unavailable for external deployment) and an estimated 35% of South Africa's military barracks have been classed as unfit for human occupation since 2007 (Mail & Guardian [Johannesburg], April 21, 2012). Without money to operate sophisticated equipment, skilled staff continue to flee at the end of their enlistment and there is little opportunity for new recruits to train in skills useful in the civilian world. Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Defense has described abuse of women in the SANDF as "common," adding that many female recruits have been impregnated by their instructors (BUAnews, November 26, 2011). Racial abuse of black subordinates by white senior officers also remains a problem 19 years into the integration process. South African troops are unionized and have at times clashed with police during pay disputes.
With the 2012 defense budget of $3.8 billion still far below the 2 percent of GDP required to maintain the armed forces, the South African defense department began looking at other ways of generating income, including contracting out soldiers to municipalities to do various labor and infrastructure repair projects. The department also created the Defense Estate Management agency to lease or sell-off defense department lands. Much of the land owned by the SANDF came by way of British government endowments of military facilities made on the condition that they could only be used for defense purposes
Politicization of the military is still a problem in South Africa. There has been speculation that the current chief of the SANDF, Angolan-trained Lieutenant General Solly Zacharia Shoke, received his appointment as a result of his history as a commander in Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ANC's military wing (SAPA, May 11, 2011). Umkhonto we Sizwe forces were integrated into the newly formed SANDF between 1994 and 2004. An investigative commission recently declared that the SANDF was too politicized, a situation typified by former Defense Minister Lindiwe Sisulu's preference for wearing SANDF uniforms at public occasions
A sometimes unaccountable procurement process remains a problem for the South African military; last year the political opposition revealed over $7.75 billion had passed through a defense department slush fund that had failed to reveal to parliament how the money had been spent (Johannesburg Times, April 18, 2012). The army has been overlooked in recent acquisition programs and is close to finding itself equipped with obsolete equipment in terms of armored personnel carriers, logistics vehicles and main battle tanks
South Africa's once-effective air force has new aircraft but cannot afford the fuel and maintenance needed to keep them in the air. Despite this, one element of the air force that did see extensive time in the air was Squadron 21, charged with flying South African VIPs and government ministers. Former defense minister Lindiwe Sisilu booked 203 flights over three years in chartered luxury Gulfstream jets at an estimated cost of $4.5 million. Some 63 of the flights were empty, as they were intended solely to pick the minister up somewhere and take her to another destination in what one opposition critic described as "a staggering waste of money"
While government ministers travel in luxury, the South African Air Force (SAAF) still transports troops in 70-year-old Dakota aircraft. One of these, a Dakota C47TP (an upgraded DC-3 with turbine engines) crashed, claiming 11 lives when it was unable to fly above inclement weather. The crash came shortly after the military decided it could no longer afford a maintenance contract for its military aircraft (SAPA, December 6, 2012; Sunday Times [Johannesburg], December 10, 2012). World War II-era Dakotas also continue to be used for surveillance of South Africa's 3,900 kilometer coastline in the absence of modern surveillance aircraft. Meanwhile, 26 new Swedish-built Gripen fighter-jets, purchased at a cost of R10 billion (approximately $1 billion), average only two hours in the air each week; not enough to keep the machines in operable condition and far from the 10 hours of flight-time each week considered necessary to keep pilots well-trained
Former SAAF chief Lieutenant General Carlo Gagiano retired in 2012 after trying to resign in late 2011 during his hospitalization for stress as he continued to try unsuccessfully to find enough money for the fuel and maintenance to keep the SAAF in the air. His successor, Lieutenant General Fabian Zimpande Msimang (the first black chief of the SAAF) will have trouble keeping all but executive travel jets in the air if current funding problems continue
The once formidable South African navy now spends little time at sea. Replacement parts and maintenance budgets barely exist, leaving only one of the navy's four new frigates operational and only one its four new submarines able to put out to sea (Sunday Times [Johannesburg], December 10, 2012). South African Navy ships and SAAF aircraft carry out anti-piracy operations in the Mozambique Channel, though this mission is also threatened by underfunding.
Despite economic troubles and a collapsing military, South Africa still desires to be a major player in Africa, which encourages it to commit to missions that stretch the military's capacity to its breaking point. Unless current trends are reversed, the steady transformation of the SANDF into an assembly of riot police and border guards will be completed in just a few years. Geography and reputation have left South Africa with few external enemies, but it is also extremely wealthy in various resources. South Africa was only cobbled together from various constituent parts a little more than a century ago, and it would not be surprising if a general collapse of South Africa's security infrastructure invited the emergence of secessionist movements drawing on both domestic and external inspiration. South Africa's eventual inability to project force beyond its borders will also have important implications for regional security in sub-Saharan Africa.

Henry120:
The Uselessness of the SANDF.



The South African National Defense Force - A Military in Freefall
Despite an eagerness to use the South African National Defense Force (SANDF) as a means of projecting the nation's influence abroad, there is evidence that South Africa's government has so neglected or mismanaged its military assets that it may soon be unable to defend itself, much less engage in international adventures.

Last year, Roelf Meyer, the chairman of South Africa's defense review committee, identified a number of strategic goals for the SANDF, including:

· Maintaining the security of South Africa's borders;

· Promoting peace and security in Africa;

· Assisting civil authorities in policing or anti-poaching efforts;

· Establishing South Africa as a responsible leading member of the African Union;

· Responding to new regional threats such as piracy (Business Day [Johannesburg], April 13, 2012).

However, with a reduced force size and inadequate resources, the SANDF will soon have difficulty meeting most of these goals.

Life in the South African military is not seen as desirable by many potential recruits. Pay can be erratic, HIV rates are as high as 25% (making these troops unavailable for external deployment) and an estimated 35% of South Africa's military barracks have been classed as unfit for human occupation since 2007 (Mail & Guardian [Johannesburg], April 21, 2012). Without money to operate sophisticated equipment, skilled staff continue to flee at the end of their enlistment and there is little opportunity for new recruits to train in skills useful in the civilian world. Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Defense has described abuse of women in the SANDF as "common," adding that many female recruits have been impregnated by their instructors (BUAnews, November 26, 2011). Racial abuse of black subordinates by white senior officers also remains a problem 19 years into the integration process. South African troops are unionized and have at times clashed with police during pay disputes.

With the 2012 defense budget of $3.8 billion still far below the 2 percent of GDP required to maintain the armed forces, the South African defense department began looking at other ways of generating income, including contracting out soldiers to municipalities to do various labor and infrastructure repair projects. The department also created the Defense Estate Management agency to lease or sell-off defense department lands. Much of the land owned by the SANDF came by way of British government endowments of military facilities made on the condition that they could only be used for defense purposes

Politicization of the military is still a problem in South Africa. There has been speculation that the current chief of the SANDF, Angolan-trained Lieutenant General Solly Zacharia Shoke, received his appointment as a result of his history as a commander in Umkhonto we Sizwe, the ANC's military wing (SAPA, May 11, 2011). Umkhonto we Sizwe forces were integrated into the newly formed SANDF between 1994 and 2004. An investigative commission recently declared that the SANDF was too politicized, a situation typified by former Defense Minister Lindiwe Sisulu's preference for wearing SANDF uniforms at public occasions

A sometimes unaccountable procurement process remains a problem for the South African military; last year the political opposition revealed over $7.75 billion had passed through a defense department slush fund that had failed to reveal to parliament how the money had been spent (Johannesburg Times, April 18, 2012). The army has been overlooked in recent acquisition programs and is close to finding itself equipped with obsolete equipment in terms of armored personnel carriers, logistics vehicles and main battle tanks

South Africa's once-effective air force has new aircraft but cannot afford the fuel and maintenance needed to keep them in the air. Despite this, one element of the air force that did see extensive time in the air was Squadron 21, charged with flying South African VIPs and government ministers. Former defense minister Lindiwe Sisilu booked 203 flights over three years in chartered luxury Gulfstream jets at an estimated cost of $4.5 million. Some 63 of the flights were empty, as they were intended solely to pick the minister up somewhere and take her to another destination in what one opposition critic described as "a staggering waste of money"

While government ministers travel in luxury, the South African Air Force (SAAF) still transports troops in 70-year-old Dakota aircraft. One of these, a Dakota C47TP (an upgraded DC-3 with turbine engines) crashed, claiming 11 lives when it was unable to fly above inclement weather. The crash came shortly after the military decided it could no longer afford a maintenance contract for its military aircraft (SAPA, December 6, 2012; Sunday Times [Johannesburg], December 10, 2012). World War II-era Dakotas also continue to be used for surveillance of South Africa's 3,900 kilometer coastline in the absence of modern surveillance aircraft. Meanwhile, 26 new Swedish-built Gripen fighter-jets, purchased at a cost of R10 billion (approximately $1 billion), average only two hours in the air each week; not enough to keep the machines in operable condition and far from the 10 hours of flight-time each week considered necessary to keep pilots well-trained

Former SAAF chief Lieutenant General Carlo Gagiano retired in 2012 after trying to resign in late 2011 during his hospitalization for stress as he continued to try unsuccessfully to find enough money for the fuel and maintenance to keep the SAAF in the air. His successor, Lieutenant General Fabian Zimpande Msimang (the first black chief of the SAAF) will have trouble keeping all but executive travel jets in the air if current funding problems continue

The once formidable South African navy now spends little time at sea. Replacement parts and maintenance budgets barely exist, leaving only one of the navy's four new frigates operational and only one its four new submarines able to put out to sea (Sunday Times [Johannesburg], December 10, 2012). South African Navy ships and SAAF aircraft carry out anti-piracy operations in the Mozambique Channel, though this mission is also threatened by underfunding.

Despite economic troubles and a collapsing military, South Africa still desires to be a major player in Africa, which encourages it to commit to missions that stretch the military's capacity to its breaking point. Unless current trends are reversed, the steady transformation of the SANDF into an assembly of riot police and border guards will be completed in just a few years. Geography and reputation have left South Africa with few external enemies, but it is also extremely wealthy in various resources. South Africa was only cobbled together from various constituent parts a little more than a century ago, and it would not be surprising if a general collapse of South Africa's security infrastructure invited the emergence of secessionist movements drawing on both domestic and external inspiration. South Africa's eventual inability to project force beyond its borders will also have important implications for regional security in sub-Saharan Africa.

DieVluit:


Dear Henry

How old is your post in relation to the review?

Yours faithfully

The thinking people of the world.

EVarn:
@henry,augugaust,any latest update on beegeagle's blog?,i cant seem to find the correct page.

patches689:


This artical is based on old and outdated information

We have torn holes in it on numerous occasions

And yet you continue to repost it?

I could destroy it but that would be a waste of time as no matter how many links and citations I post, you will continue to parrot this nonsense like a clown

Stop posting outdated, biased, OPINION

Come with facts

Henry120:


What review? The one literally gathering dust in your parliament....... LOL

Wake up and smell the coffee, it's morning.

Henry120:


Yeah, cry me a river. There are many other articles similar to this. It isn't old, out-dated or biased.

Since it doesn't play into your narrative, then, it is false.

Didn't your defence minister state, your military is in a critical state of decline, saddled with a vast amount of outdated equipment it cannot maintain or do not have the personnel to run?

So, what's the difference between the minister's comments and want we continue to see unravel before us?

patches689:


So you didn't read the artical I posted just a few pages back?

patches689:


And who are the authors of these arrivals?

Are the factual or opinion peaces?

Again, I can tare that artical apart no problem

Henry120:


What review? The one literally gathering dust in your parliament....... LOL

Wake up and smell the coffee, it's morning.

Henry120:


Your Defence minister. They all quoted your defence minister.

Henry120:

The problem with you is, you telling too many lies. I just can't keep up.

patches689:
The Defense Review is working its way through parliament... its implementation draws closer by the day

Minister at Parliament defence committees’ strategic planning session

Defence and Military Veterans Minister, Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, tops the list of attendees at the strategic planning session of Parliament’s defence committee currently underway in Somerset West.

The two-day session is, according to Defence Ministry spokeswoman Joy Peter, aimed at “identifying core oversight building blocks” for the 2014/19 Parliamentary term.

But the first priority for the strategic session will be the Defence Review, this year renamed as the 2014 version because of delays in finalising the Review called for in 2012 by previous Defence Minister, Lindiwe Sisulu.

Mapisa-Nqakula is on record as saying she cannot wait for implementation of the Review as she is “desperate” to acquire the capabilities it calls for the SA National Defence Force (SANDF) to have.

This envisages a 189 000 strong SANDF with 158 combat units and consuming R88 billion a year.