₦airaland Forum

Bidam:
So Hezekiah prayers stayed the hands of a merciful God, he stayed back 15 years instead of going home to be with the Lord, and what was the result of all the work he did? No legacy, his sons shattered it.

Off course he had faith that why he cried unto God but that wasn't the reason God gave him 15yrs!! Did he ask for 15years?

Are you telling me it was his faith that moved God?

Bidam:
Look at the verse you quoted slowly without adding your prejudices to it. notice the large fonts i highlighted. It was actually as a result of Paul's prayer God had mercy on epaphroditus, not the other way round.

The question now is did Paul pray for Epaphroditus? Good. Go back to chapter 1 of Paul's letter since Epaphroditus was a fellow believer at Philippi before he was sent to Paul by the Church.

Philippians 1:3(NIV)


3 I thank my God every time I remember you. 4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy

Oh lord, so it's now Paul's faith that caused God to heal epaphroditus?

wow


An excerpt from the verse:

But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow

if God had mercy on both of them, why the. Should you single out Paul's prayer?

Why rule out epaphroditus prayers?

are you telling me he too don't have faith?

What about trophimus that Paul left sick?

What happened Paul didn't have faith?

Just questioning your line of reasoning!!

nannymcphee:
Mark9:20-24

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.
22 And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us.
23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Mind you I know pastor Chris's interpretation of this & I can refer to the message.

Excuse me!
And So? I follow the bible, Pastor Chris preaches and teaches I go back and search the book if these things be true, and they always were! Dont make it sound like he is my benchmark for marking anything scriptures right. Please point me to the message. Thanks.

Q1.but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us

&

Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Are these statements of a man with great faith ?

What took the man to Jesus in the first place? Assumptions or faith in the works Jesus had already done? Stay focused, we were talking of those who prayed and get instant results, then those who had faith for their healing, not those who met Jesus on behalf of another for a healing. Should we now discuss those who met Jesus on behalf of another? There was a Roman centurion, and....

Q2.At the end, his son got Healed, was it as a result of his faith or God's mercy & love?

SMH, refer to the above.

by the way, vooks just showed you a verse that buttress the mercy of God at work, but you ignored that & pulled up the one that buttresses faith!!

Refer to Bidam's post. I did not know how else to discuss with vooks, calmly, so I just gave him a verse to ponder on, not that he can.

nobody is disputing that faith works, but what I'm saying is, it is God mercy/love & sovereignty that counts at all times

Can anyone receive anything from God without faith? A yes or no would be fine. Thanks

Bidam:
sIMPLE! No one prayed.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.2 Chronicles 7:14.

A principle applicable to all of God's children wherever they are, including Syria.

Don't mind her, God's sovereignty and love and mercy must have turned a blind eye to the Christians in Syria.

nannymcphee:
Off course he had faith that why he cried unto God but that wasn't the reason God gave him 15yrs!! Did he ask for 15years?

Are you telling me it was his faith that moved God?

Can a man receive anything (in this case 15years) from God without faith?

nannymcphee:
Oh lord, so it's now Paul's faith that caused God to heal epaphroditus?

wow


An excerpt from the verse:

But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow

if God had mercy on both of them, why the. Should you single out Paul's prayer?

Why rule out epaphroditus prayers?

are you telling me he too don't have faith?

What about trophimus that Paul left sick?

What happened Paul didn't have faith?

Just questioning your line of reasoning!!

SMH

nannymcphee:
Off course he had faith that why he cried unto God but that wasn't the reason God gave him 15yrs!! Did he ask for 15years?

So what was the reason God gave him 15years? to give birth to evil sons that would destroy the legacy he took years to build?

Are you telling me it was his faith that moved God?

Yes.

nannymcphee:
Oh lord, so it's now Paul's faith that caused God to heal epaphroditus?

wow

Maybe, i don't know. All i know is that Paul prayed but the healing in this case wasn't instant.

An excerpt from the verse:

But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow

if God had mercy on both of them, why the. Should you single out Paul's prayer?

Paul was his father. If you are sick does it not distresses your biological father when you were young?

Why rule out epaphroditus prayers?

A remote possibility is there. he may also have prayed and when it got worse he consulted elder Paul according to James 5:14. Unlike you i like being silent where scripture is silent.

are you telling me he too don't have faith?

I never said such.

What about trophimus that Paul left sick?

Did scripture record trophimus dying of the said illness? funny you should quote a few cases among so many cases where Paul healed alot of folks.

What happened Paul didn't have faith?

So what did Paul have? Fear?

Just questioning your line of reasoning!!

I am also questioning your line of reasoning.

Gombs and Bidam,
FAITH is not the opposite of MERCY; they are not mutually exclusive
Paul prayed but God had mercy and that's what saved Epaphroditus otherwise WHY would Paul say God had mercy if He didn't?
Did God have mercy on Epaphroditus or not whether Paul and the entire church prayed for the sick dude?

When you pray,it is because you have faith in God to do it, but whether He does it depends on His sovereignty. He will show mercy on whom He will

Romans 9:14- 16 (ESV)
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy

Bidam:
Look at the verse you quoted slowly without adding your prejudices to it. notice the large fonts i highlighted. It was actually as a result of Paul's prayer God had mercy on epaphroditus, not the other way round.

The question now is did Paul pray for Epaphroditus? Good. Go back to chapter 1 of Paul's letter since Epaphroditus was a fellow believer at Philippi before he was sent to Paul by the Church.

Philippians 1:3(NIV)


3 I thank my God every time I remember you. 4 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy

[quote ]Can anyone receive anything from God without faith? A yes or no would be fine. Thanks[/quote]" For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."
- Matthew 5: 45

Simpleton, are atheistic and pagan nations the most suffering in the world? The problem of Syria is not because there are no Christians there any more than non-Christians falling sick and dying is; the problem of the fallen nature of this creation, wars, earthquakes, viruses,injustice,murder,rape and so forth


Go through this list of Per capita income and tell me what Nigeria with Christ Embassy hooliganism and Christianized witchcraft has on Qatar
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD

Gombs:
Don't mind her, God's sovereignty and love and mercy must have turned a blind eye to the Christians in Syria.

A

Yooguyz:
I dunno why I keep having this feeling that the handle behind the moniker mbaemeka is a prominent Pastor in Nigeria.

Very thoughtful of you to feel so bro. But I am not even a Pastor let alone a prominent one. Any similarities with any prominent Pastor you know will most likely be purely coincidental but then again the bible says when the Pharisees saw how confident and knowledgeable Peter and co were, (considering that they were unlearned men), they took note concerning them that they had been with Jesus.

BabaGnoni:
More grease to your elbow
but it's no skin off my teeth. I only helped set the record straight by telling a fact that was inaccurately stated.

Gnoni setting records straight? That's strange, verrry strange.

nannymcphee:
Hezekiah getting an instant harvest was a function of his faith abi ?

what happened to Hannah, hasn't she been praying all those years? So the recorded act of her making a vow to God, that brought Samuel was the one that she had great faith abi?

When David prayed & fasted, yet his child died. Didn't he have strong faith to have a harvest?

Paul thorn nko(whatever that torn might have been). Didn't Paul have great faith to cause a change?

Nlmediator and Gombs have answered you appositely but I just thought to add this: Does sovereignty not mean that God can do whatever he likes whether we have faith or not? Which means that sovereignty and faith are mutually exclusive except like Bidam said "you do not understand what faith is" (paraphrasing him).

God in all his sovereignty said if we asked anything in faith he will bring it to pass. The bible expressly states that one cannot get anything from God without faith. So whether someone cried for days and received, or they fasted for days and received it only means that their acts of crying or fasting were interpreted as faith to God. Are we on track thus far?

Let us examine another instant miracle and we can see how your definition of time factors into it.

Matthew 8:10,13
10 When Jesus heard him, He marveled and said to those who followed Him [who adhered steadfastly to Him, conforming to His example in living and, if need be, in dying also], I tell you truly, I have not found [b]so much faith as this [c]with anyone, even in Israel.
13 Then to the centurion Jesus said, Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed. And the servant boy was restored to health at that very [d]moment.

2 things to learn from this:

1. Jesus interpreted the centurions request for an instant "harvest" to be great faith that he had not seen even amongst the disciples that walked with him. Meaning it takes great faith to expect something now and not project it into the future.

2. The servant boy was healed Instantly! And Jesus said it happened like that because it was "as the man believed".

So the mocking questions you were trying to ask are either unnecessary or borne out of confusion. I am tilting towards both.

nannymcphee:
L

Was the instant reply a function of his great faith or Gods sovereignty?

His faith caused God to suspend his sovereignty

And so, we made front page! Nice

paulGrundy:
Besides that he writes as though he recieves the revelation directly from God. Authoritativly, domineering as though the posts are addressed to thousands.

They both write alike, my eyes are on nlmediator too. Even winsomex/Drummaboy cannot stand the wisdom his posts exhumes.

I have been around, just that want to be on low key. I trust you are fine.

Smiling ear to ear at this post. I am thoroughly convinced by the word of God even though I am still a student. God's spirit also teaches me by showing me things directly or by sending me to others-even on NL! I think what helps me is the strong desire to put to practice all that I have learnt from the word. That to me, is where the true Christianity lies! That's why I admire those who like me, have dared to believe God and most of the WOF or WOF-related Pastors come to mind.

Watch out for those who argue with the clearly written words of the bible. Most of them are simply playing lipservice on NL- Body of Esau but voice of Jacob. They don't really believe the word for if they did they would have had at least some experiences to prove that indeed the word is true or reverence for those who have had a deluge of such experiences. John called them unbelieving believers and Jesus likened them to Pharisees that place heavy loads on people while they themselves will not lift a pin.

On another note, If I have the holy spirit of God in me I do not think someone can successfully deceive me for 2 years let alone over a decade. If the holy spirit in me let me get deceived for such a long time then I might need to recheck that he is truly the spirit of God!

nannymcphee:
I believe there are so many roads that leads to Rome!! ie when faced with a challenge, a Christian has many option to tackle it.

He can pray, fast, worship, praise or a combination etc any can work depending on what he was led by the Holy Spirit to do at that time

BUT to say that one can get instant result as a result of one's great faith in all situations is something I will not agree to!!

There is nothing that suggest from the scriptures that Hezekiah got instant result because he had great faith(rather it was Gods mercy at work & the way he wanted things to go)

Where then is the instantness in "intercessory prayers"?

I asked earlier on, the bible shows that Hanah's family went up yearly & I'm sure(even though it wasn't stated) that she went to the temple to pray or at least have been praying year to year

was it just the recorded one that made God answer her prayers?

If yes, does it mean she didn't have faith in all her previous prayers?

As shown from scripture how men defied the laws of nature(Jesus walking on water, his ascension, Philips transportation, the sun being set back etc) I also believe the same can happen in the life of a Christian, YES his faith can make this happen but it's more of Gods mercy & Sovreignity!!

the foundation of this teaching lies in the diety of man & how he can get what he wants & when he wants it, so long as he has the God kind of faith

This teaching is dangerous because God has been left out of the picture, his will has been left out(there is a teaching out there that says praying according to the will of God is praying in the name of Jesus, what's the meaning of this? anything I ask in the name of Jesus with great faith will be granted?)

Hope you get the thrust of my post

Mercy, kindness la dida is God's response to faith. You clearly need to go back and restudy what faith is so you don't keep on confusing yourself. What many (like the teachers that confused you) say about the will of God or his sovereignty is often misappropriated and misapplied and you as a result of such confusion have misapplied your understanding to the word of God.

You see, such talk about "If it is God's will it will happen and if not it will not happen" or "God is sovereign:he does what he likes" may sound reasonable based on what you think you see but that is not what God's word says. Gombs has already mentioned it to you and I would do so again for emphasis. James 1

6 Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind.

7 For truly, l[b]et not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord[/b],

8 [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].

Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

Bidam:
Unlike you i like being silent where scripture is silent.

If the above were true, then you wouldn't have said that it was Paul's prayer that made God have mercy on Epaphroditus. The scripture was silent on that.

We weren't told that Paul prayed for his healing neither were we told that there was a praying, all that was stated was God had mercy on him

Paul statement can be likened to a husband who says God had mercy on his wife & on him(saving him from the sorrow of becoming a widower)

Will it be right to the. Conclude that it was the husband prayer that worked?

If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

trustman, DrummaBoy and BabaGnoni,

I humbly request a twenty-first item on your Word of Faith thread titled:

21. Word of Faith Despises God's Sovereignty.

The responses to nannymcphee's queries necessitates this. Please consider it.

nannymcphee:
If the above were true, then you wouldn't have said that it was Paul's prayer that made God have mercy on Epaphroditus. The scripture was silent on that.

We weren't told that Paul prayed for his healing neither were we told that there was a praying, all that was stated was God had mercy on him

Paul statement can be likened to a husband who says God had mercy on his wife & on him(saving him from the sorrow of becoming a widower)

Will it be right to the. Conclude that it was the husband prayer that worked?

If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

Did you read the scripture i quoted at all to vooks? or you like arguing for the sake of arguments? And i remember asking you whether trophimus died of the said sickness? People build a castle on this verse. "Paul had a healing ministry but couldn't heal Trophimus!"

Trophimus sick at Miletum does not prove that God wanted Trophimus sick and was unwilling to heal him supernaturally.

dear gombs,
for silencing all the critics, wolves and enemies of the Faith and the cause of Christ on Nairaland. May you never lose your reward in the kingdom.

More Grace dear brother.

I'm not ashamed to call you a BROTHER.

Gombs:
Excuse me!
And So? I follow the bible, Pastor Chris preaches and teaches I go back and search the book if these things be true, and they always were! Dont make it sound like he is my benchmark for marking anything scriptures right. Please point me to the message. Thanks.


Can anyone receive anything from God without faith? A yes or no would be fine. Thanks

FAITH TO CHANGE YOUR WORLD, that's the title of the teaching, it wasn't a service persay, more like a Talkshow between Pastor & Rev Tom. About 4 vcd's or so

Pastor taught that, the man's statement was that of unbelief & Jesus healed the boy because of the following verse

Mark 9:25
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.


He healed the boy out of compassion & the folks that were coming to witness Gods healing power!!

How can "Lord, I believe, help my unbelief " be a statement of faith"

If someone believed you could do something will he be asking you "if thou can" isn't that unbelief?

I hope the above answers the second paragraph of your quote!!

Mbaemeka,
I have a challenge for you, an invitation to debate. More details coming

James said that you pray and have faith. Please pray away Boko Haram not next week BUT NOW. Or Ebola.

What am aksin from you is your BEST excuse for not invoking the same doctrine of instant, the same that Paul did not deem fit to prescribe to Timothy's frequent ailments. You can start by reminding us how wicked talk brings down a city from Proverbs

mbaemeka:
Mercy, kindness la dida is God's response to faith. You clearly need to go back and restudy what faith is so you don't keep on confusing yourself. What many (like the teachers that confused you) say about the will of God or his sovereignty is often misappropriated and misapplied and you as a result of such confusion have misapplied your understanding to the word of God.

You see, such talk about "If it is God's will it will happen and if not it will not happen" or "God is sovereign:he does what he likes" may sound reasonable based on what you think you see but that is not what God's word says. Gombs has already mentioned it to you and I would do so again for emphasis. James 1

6 Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind.

7 For truly, l[b]et not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord[/b],

8 [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].

Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

mbaemeka:
Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

Gbamest

nannymcphee:
If the above were true, then you wouldn't have said that it was Paul's prayer that made God have mercy on Epaphroditus. The scripture was silent on that.

We weren't told that Paul prayed for his healing neither were we told that there was a praying, all that was stated was God had mercy on him

Paul statement can be likened to a husband who says God had mercy on his wife & on him(saving him from the sorrow of becoming a widower)

Will it be right to the. Conclude that it was the husband prayer that worked?

If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

So, faith don't always work ie it doesn't work all the time!... hmmmm

Dear Lord Jesus, help my patience, amen

vooks:
WOF is basically materialism, the other extreme of Christian-wealth relationship. If Christ's plans for Christians is BEST health,wealth and longest life, then in absence of eternity of after-life, Christians ought to be the most enviable people under the sun. But Paul thinks otherwise.

1Cor 15-19 (ESV)
19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

You are so filled with delusion that you are constipated by it. Paul said if in christ we have hope in this life ONLY we are to be pitied. In otherwords our hope is not only in this life- it is in this life and the one to come. But you would not see this because you typed whimsically and exposed your shallowness again. How sad.

WinsomeX:
trustman, DrummaBoy and BabaGnoni,

I humbly request a twenty-first item on your Word of Faith thread titled:

21. Word of Faith Despises God's Sovereignty.

The responses to nannymcphee's queries necessitates this. Please consider it.

Ridiculous! At least nanny is a member of a so called WoF church, she and the person she's discussing with attend the same church. petty points/items. You and all these WoF piano, WoF dance, WoF table. Jo tried helping you but you seem bent on wallowing in your mire as it were.

Faith+reciting scriptures/speaking faith is no formula for earthly bliss. That's what nanny is saying. The formula does NOT ALWAYS get you whatever you want whenever

Gombs:
So, faith don't always work ie it doesn't work all the time!... hmmmm

Dear Lord Jesus, help my patience, amen

nannymcphee:
If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

Faith doesn't work all the time? Wow.

Gombs:
So, faith don't always work ie it doesn't work all the time!... hmmmm

Dear Lord Jesus, help my patience, amen

I hadn't seen this post before I replied.