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The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin - Religion (103) - Nairaland

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Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by Nobody: 3:39am On Dec 03, 2014
[quote author=vooks post=28539718]Look at what you are saying about Paul,why he couldn't have been a prophet but was a teacher. You are out on a limb.
Verse 1 makes it clear that the prophets and teachers included among them Saul. We are not told what Paul was of the two. All of them were fasting and praying and Holy Spirit spoke. It is obvious He never used Paul nor Barnabas. Two questions;
1. Is what Holy Spirit did prophecy?
2. Can a prophet receive prophecy from another prophet?

You ASSUME these answers to these; 1. Yes and 2. No
Only then can Paul be disqualified from being a prophet.

The order in which those names appear is IRRELEVANT unless you can prove otherwise
1 Timothy 2:7 speaks of Paul as a teacher.
Once again, offices vs gifts is largely a matter of creativity than scriptures.
The three portions of scriptures you shared are not identical yet you would insist they are exhaustive. What is the difference between 'ministry' and 'spiritual' gift?

1. Diversity of tongues appears among your spiritual gifts of 1 Cor 12:8- 10, as well as verse 28 among ministry gifts.
2. Evangelists are missing in verse 28 but are in Ephesians.

I grew up in faith learning about the so called five-fold ministries. In fact it is almost heretical to dispute this. But is there anything like FIVE ministries?
Yawn! Like i stated earlier quoting relevant scripture, the ministry gifts are the fivefold ministry while the nine spiritual gifts are for the laity.
Ministering in tongues in public assembly with interpretation on more of a continual basis denotes the ministry gift of diversities of tongues most closely related to the office of the prophet, and not every believer has that gift. This is not referring to a believer who is used in tongues or interpretation of tongues on an occasional basis.
It is true that the laity are sometimes used in the manifestation of the gift of tongues and interpretation of tongues — the gift of the Spirit listed in First Corinthians 12:10. But, actually,diversities of tongues listed here in First Corinthians 12:28 is not referring to lay members speaking in tongues; it is referring to an office — a fivefold ministry gift.

1 CORINTHIANS 12:28
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly
teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, DIVERSITIES
OF TONGUES.

1 CORINTHIANS 14:27,28
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and
that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to
himself, and to God.


Paul was speaking here about one of the fivefold ministry gifts which is equipped with tongues and interpretation of tongues. This spiritual equipment of diversities of tongues is manifested on a consistent basis through one who is called to the fivefold ministry in the office of the
prophet.

Yeah like you rightly observed gifts of "miracles" and "gifts of healings" indicate a ministry gift of the office of the evangelist. The ministry of an evangelist is not listed in verse 28, except as "miracles" and "gifts of healings," indicating the office of the evangelist.

Philip is an example of a New Testament evangelist. We can see the working of miracles and gifts of healings operating in his ministry which indicate the ministry of an evangelist.
ACTS 8:5-7
5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake,
HEARING AND SEEING THE MIRACLES WHICH HE DID.
7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed
with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by vooks: 5:22am On Dec 03, 2014
Bidam,
Thank you for showing me that Paul was a teacher. But he was also an apostle no doubt and that means he held two Offices at the same time. What stops him from holding a third?

Your points are slurred. Now a continuous manifestation of tongues denotes the office of the prophet. That has zero scriptural basis. Are 'helps and governments' offices?
Signs and wonders were not exclusive to evangelists so you can't argue that since they accompanied Philip when we read of miracles and healings we are reading of evangelists. Try harder explaining evangelists missing in that list. What about pastors?

I have heard ALL your arguments before. One needs a healthy dose of imagination to string the job description of the five-fold. I don't blame you though, you are not the first.

Thank you for trying wink
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by vooks: 5:47am On Dec 03, 2014
My broda,
Agabus was not the LAST,he is the ONLY NT prophet we have record of his work/function. That function included foretelling. There is nothing like diminishing. Paul would not talk of prophecies fading if Agabus gift was a minority in the church. And if prophecy is fore& forthtelling, BOTH ought to cease not one of them. So I don't rule out foretelling presently. But I have seen the gift abused and faked so many times. Here is an example of one;
https://www.nairaland.com/2002872/here-prophet-claiming-malachi-4s

Note we only have one Evangelist positively identifed as such in the NT; Philip. I would not claim that the gift was diminishing on account of the few recorded instances of evangelists. Just saying.

The idea that foretelling turned into forthtelling is a convenient way of watering down the gift of prophecy. Here is how, it is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish forthtelling from preaching. Apollos was mighty in scriptures already and he was not even Spirit baptized. Also, the most objective test of prophecy is accuracy. That is taken away. How do we test forthtelling? Scriptures,right?

BabaGnoni:

Wisecrack. Didn't know vooks had a funny bone LOL

Tall order, however Agabus is probably the last Bible recorded foretelling prophet (i.e. dont quote me on that and I dont want any NL police on my back either LOL)

nlMediator has said it all, there's no point reinventing the wheel here. Foretelling prophecy has gone past it's "Use by" date, essentially forthtelling prophecy is what has replaced it

Forthtelling prophecy, as a gift, is something to desire and to be used exclusively for the benefit and building up of the body of Christ
Forthtelling prophecy, essentially is speaking the mind of God, as it is used for speaking out words of encouragement, instructions & rebuke to God's people for them to repent and/or return to God

Notice the decline of foretelling prophecy in the Bible and it's break-up and/or transition to forthtelling prophecy, word of wisdom or word of knowledge

Personally, I think love is supreme, as it encompasses all these gifts, furthermore all these gifts, prophecy, speaking in tongues etcetera will fade and pass away except love
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by BabaGnoni: 5:09am On Dec 05, 2014
vooks:
My broda,
Agabus was not the LAST, he is the ONLY NT prophet we have record of his work/function. That function included foretelling.
There is nothing like diminishing. Paul would not talk of prophecies fading if Agabus gift was a minority in the church.
And if prophecy is fore & forthtelling, BOTH ought to cease not one of them.
So I don't rule out foretelling presently. But I have seen the gift abused and faked so many times.
Here is an example of one
;
https://www.nairaland.com/2002872/here-prophet-claiming-malachi-4s

Note we only have one Evangelist positively identifed as such in the NT; Philip.
I would not claim that the gift was diminishing on account of the few recorded instances of evangelists. Just saying.

The idea that foretelling turned into forthtelling is a convenient way of watering down the gift of prophecy.
Here is how, it is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish forthtelling from preaching.
Apollos was mighty in scriptures already and he was not even Spirit baptized.
Also, the most objective test of prophecy is accuracy.
That is taken away. How do we test forthtelling? Scriptures, right?

I think we are both on the same page (i.e. I posted "...Agabus is probably the last Bible recorded foretelling prophet...... as in NT"

I wrote "... break-up and/or to..." and didnt suggest "...diminishing...".
- Put it this way, possibly frozen, until such a time it'll be recativated (i.e. reversed "time capsule"?)

Gift(s) abused and faked so many times, are ten a penny

True, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish forthtelling from preaching - but then, one is about spreading the word, building up with the word etecetera, and the other about proclaiming the Kingdom
True, Apollos was a skilled orator with "head knowledge" (i.e. a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures) until he was steered right by Priscilla and Aquila (i.e. shown the way of God more adequately)
True, accuracy and selfless motives will be the most objective tests
We test from/by Scriptures and/or when it happens or takes place
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by vooks: 6:11am On Dec 05, 2014
Great my broda, am glad we agree.
But you watch one too many sci-fi thrillers cheesy
BabaGnoni:


I think we are both on the same page (i.e. I posted "...Agabus is probably the last Bible recorded foretelling prophet...... as in NT"

I wrote "... break-up and/or to..." and didnt suggest "...diminishing...".
- Put it this way, possibly frozen, until such a time it'll be recativated (i.e. reversed "time capsule"?)

Gift(s) abused and faked so many times, are ten a penny

True, it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish forthtelling from preaching - but then, one is about spreading the word, building up with the word etecetera, and the other about proclaiming the Kingdom
True, Apollos was a skilled orator with "head knowledge" (i.e. a learned man, with a thorough knowledge of the Scriptures) until he was steered right by Priscilla and Aquila (i.e. shown the way of God more adequately)
True, accuracy and selfless motives will be the most objective tests
We test from/by Scriptures and/or when it happens or takes place
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by BabaGnoni: 8:54pm On Dec 06, 2014
vooks:
Great my broda, am glad we agree.
But you watch one too many sci-fi thrillers cheesy
Ah, as for sci-fi thrillers, well now that you mention it, Planet Of The Apes starring Charlton Heston (i.e. Moses) has its evocative moment though, doesnt it (e.g. it had prophecy in it too, didn't it)
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by vooks: 9:02pm On Dec 06, 2014
My broda,
I haven't watched it yet. My last movie was Pacific Rim at the beginning of 2014. I don't like movies too much. But I sure did watch Breaking Bad Series probably more religiously than behoves a believer. And let me mention I just can't bring myself to watching Christian movies. I tried two and gave up less than halfway. God is Not Dead and Son of God.....ruthlessly boring. My movies are purely for entertainment not spiritual food.

BabaGnoni:

Ah, as for sci-fi thrillers, well now that you mention it, Planet Of The Apes starring Charlton Heston (i.e. Moses) has its evocative moment though, doesnt it (e.g. it had prophecy in it too, didn't it)
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by BabaGnoni: 9:14pm On Dec 06, 2014
vooks:
My broda,
I haven't watched it yet. My last movie was Pacific Rim at the beginning of 2014. I don't like movies too much. But I sure did watch Breaking Bad Series probably more religiously than behoves a believer. And let me mention I just can't bring myself to watching Christian movies. I tried two and gave up less than halfway. God is Not Dead and Son of God.....ruthlessly boring. My movies are purely for entertainment not spiritual food.
I actually was referring to the original "Planet Of The Apes" starring Charlton Heston (i.e. Moses) and not the new one

I havent gotten round watching any movies this year yet, I do however watch secular and christian movies when opportuned/chanced
- I watch either both out of entertainment and/or spiritual curiousties to know or learn something
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by charzyh2: 11:09am On Dec 15, 2014
debosky:
Hehehehe Jesus will come back before this tithe matter will be put to bed. Una well done! cheesy
hi bro, you have a pm.
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by benjibabs(m): 5:21pm On Jan 28, 2015
@OP,

I've a question as per the portion of the book below.

While I fully agree that angels are ministering spirits sent to minister for those who are heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14). Who is doing the sending? is KEH saying that Christians are doing the "sending" with this line: 'Go, ministering spirits, and cause the money to come." '?


=======================
Exercising Our Authority

That's why when the Lord told me to claim the money I needed, I understood what He meant. He was telling me to believe and exercise my spiritual authority in the area of finances.

The Lord had said to me, "The money that you need is not up here in Heaven. I don't have any money up here. The money that you need is down there. It's Satan who's keeping it from coming, not Me. "Satan is going to stay there till Adam's lease runs out."
(Then, thank God, Satan is going to be put in the bottomless pit for a little while, and finally cast into the lake of fire.)*** Hallelujah somebody!
The Lord said to me, "Don't pray about money like you have been. Whatever you need, claim it in Jesus' Name. And then you say, 'Satan, take your hands off my money.' And then say, 'Go, ministering spirits, and cause the money to come." '***Screams!...Leaves my sit, walks outside speaking in tongues, myy colleagues thinks i've lost it***

This was way back in 1950. And from that day to this, I've not prayed about money. I'm talking about for me individually—personally. Now when it comes to RHEMA Bible Training Center, that's a different thing. We present the needs of the training center to people to help us, because that's not just my responsibility.
It's the same way with the local church. It's not just one person's responsibility. We all should believe God, not just the pastor.
And yet, right on the other hand, the pastor has a responsibility, too, because he's in authority. He has to do certain things and make certain decisions in the church. And that's a great responsibility.

Angels Are Ministering Spirits

In 1950 when I began to see how faith worked in the area of finances, it was all new to me.
In fact, I said to the Lord, "What do You mean? I can understand the part about how we can exercise authority over the enemy, claim the finances we need, and tell Satan, 'Take your hands off my money.' But, what do You mean about the part,
'Go, ministering spirits, and cause the money to come'?"

The Lord said, "Didn't you ever read in My Word where it says that angels are ministering spirits sent to minister for those who are heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).*** Thank God for Jesus
Because I thought it said "minister to us," I had to get my Bible and read it. Isn't it strange how we can read Scripture for years and years, and read right over things and not get what the Word said?

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister FOR them who shall be heirs of salvation?
—Hebrews 1:13,14

Notice verse 13 says, "But to which of the ANGELS. . . . " So He's talking about angels. Now look at verse 14: "Are they not all ministering spirits. . . ?"

Now notice what it said. "Are they not ALL [How many of them? All of them.] ministering spirits. . . ?"
They are spirit beings. They are ". . . ministering spirits, sent forth to minister FOR them who shall be HEIRS OF SALVATION"
(Heb. 1:14).

Well, that's us! These angels are ministering spirits that are sent forth to minister for us. "For" us means they were sent to do something for us!
Now over in Satan's kingdom, we could say that Satan is the chief. And, you see, all these demons and other spirits are doing his work. You hear folks say sometimes, "Satan influenced me to do that." Well, he might not have been there present at the time, but one of his ambassadors was. These demons and evil spirits influence people. They'll even influence Christians, if Christians will let them.
Well, just as demon spirits influence people, good spirits or ministering spirits can influence people too.

===================
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by Gombs(m): 6:29pm On Jan 28, 2015
Yup! We can send our angels on errand! God send us both (angels and man). He's the Boss
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by benjibabs(m): 7:17pm On Jan 28, 2015
Gombs:
Yup! We can send our angels on errand! God send us both (angels and man). He's the Boss

Do we have an example in the bible we can reference?
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by Gombs(m): 10:52pm On Jan 28, 2015
benjibabs:


Do we have an example in the bible we can reference?

I thought you just quoted one? undecided

A quick quiz bro, what do you think led to Satan's rebellion?
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by benjibabs(m): 7:07pm On Jan 29, 2015
@ Gombs,

If you were referring to the scripture below:

. . . angels are ministering spirits sent to minister for those who are heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14). My question still stands - who is doing the sending?

Here is where my confusion lies: when KEH says to pray and say 'Go, ministering spirits, and cause the money to come,’ it sounds like we (Christians) are sending the angels to do something; however, from Heb. 1:14, there is nothing that suggests that we (humans/Christians) are the ones sending the angels. Agreed, they are being sent to minister for us.

So, is there any record in the bible of a man sending angel to do anything? Just want to be sure before I start to dish out orders to the winged beings. tongue

==============
A quick quiz bro, what do you think led to Satan's rebellion?

It is pride. smiley

1 Like

Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by Gombs(m): 11:06pm On Jan 29, 2015
Pride? What was the reason for the pride?
The rest of your post has been answered
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by trustman: 11:34pm On Jan 29, 2015
Gombs:
Pride? What was the reason for the pride?
The rest of your post has been answered
angry. grin
Re: The Midas Touch- A Balanced Approach To Biblical Prosperity - Kenneth Hagin by TheIkoro(m): 2:05am On Jan 30, 2015
Christianity building its CONglomerations. CONgratulations, O Capitalism. Thou
hast truly CONquered not only The Devil, but the root also of all evil. And if only thy
Creed were the same as that which enjoins the elect that is "one in Christ Jesus" to
"seek the city which is to come."

Christianity, thou may CONtinue to CONvert the gullible and the fool with all that is
CON.

- Ikoro Iyineleda.

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