₦airaland Forum

donnie:
@Gombs Mbaemeka
Hi Brothers, got an email I can reach you on? I'd like to share something with you.

Gombs:
Chapter 9 loading...

Stay tuned!

vooks:
Please don't call rubbish the Word of God. Read this verse under any translation and you will find that you are adding to the scriptures. There is a warning against adding to the Word.

Let's read together

Acts 3:4-7 (ESV)
4 And Peter directed his gaze at him, as did John, and said, “Look at us.” 5 And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive something from them. 6 But Peter said, “I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!” 7 And he took him by the right hand and raised him up, and immediately his feet and ankles were made strong.

The man did not try to stand up on his own in response to Peter's command. That's an invention. Peter took his hand and raised him up.
Please don't add to scriptures. You may wish me death by car crash or suicide by poisoning but don't add to the Scriptures. That's depravity

Besides, Peter raised up Dorcas and Paul raised Eutychus. These two were impervious to faith since they were dead. How much faith did their corpses muster?

vooks:
Salvation and healing are as different as day and night. Here is why
1. Before a man can fall down on his knees in repentance, the Holy Spirit MUST have drawn him to Christ and convicted him of his sins. So God's work in a man does not start in repentance, that's a culmination. Why would God draw you to him and then keep you in your sinful state?

2. From Peter's experience at Cornelius house, we see that even a prayer of repentance is unnecessary, they received the gift reserved for those who repent just from hearing. This just confirms how God is more than eager adopt us

3. There are incidences of healing not procured instantly but NO slightest hint of delayed acceptance of repenting sinners. Epaphroditus fell sick and approached death before God had mercy. His healing was not instant. Timothy had frequent ailments and regardless of how you translate the word ailment, it was something God could have dealt with there and then but he didn't. Instead, Paul hit the naturopathy route. Trophimus,Paul's co-worker was too sick to travel with him.

4. So you have two options, explain away these three instances as lack of faith or revise your false belief in INSTANT. Paul's thorn in the flesh I omitted for obvious reasons; you have nothing to say about it

Does the fact that they never received healing instantly void Jesus promise of responding to their faith? Nope, it just points to sovereignty. Faith, prayers and scriptures don't suspend God's sovereignty contrary to your fantasies, it is still up to God and that's why Paul says God had mercy on Epaphroditus.

So you can name ANY man of faith you can think of and I can show you a string of not-so-instant prayers answered or not answered according to his petition

vooks:
Thank you sir,
That is what we mean by God's sovereignty.God has mercy on whom He will. He healed a Syrian of leprosy and left all the Jewish lepers

The moment you realize that it is all up to Him, you don't make some of the arrogant statements we hear from WOFers. They hate the word mercy because it exposes their place as mere mortals and not goDs, they are used to ordering Jesus like he is their small bro. This is blasphemy. It is quite possible the reason WOFers don't achieve as many miracles is because God resists their pride.

nlMediator:
You do realize one can be healed by another's faith, e.g. a preacher's (or an apostle's) faith? In which case, it is still faith, not your sovereignty escape route. Jesus said the disciples could not heal the kid in Mark 9 because the disciples lacked sufficient faith.

pickabeau1:
im lost

trustman:
That's what 'script' is all about.
That's the plan of action by the sponsors.

pickabeau1:
seriously..im really lost

mbaemeka:
Sometimes I wish you know who you are talking to because if you did, you'd probably read the stories slowly before replying. Alot of you that say some of the things you do only do so because you think this is some Book club or something and most of you don't believe the words enough to put it to the test.

Now go back and read the story again and quote the verse that says "and the man, LEAPING up stood". Now pause for a moment and visualize what actually transpired there. See Peter and John stretch out their hands as though they were going to offer the man something. The man stretches out his hand expectant but then Peter yells 'in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk'. Now the bible clearly states that after saying that, Peter and John took him by the hand and tried to raise him up. Pause again, why? Because the man did not get up. Now as they pulled him up the bible shows that that was when the man's feet and ankle bones RECEIVED STRENGTH and as a result the man LEAPING UP stood and began to walk.

Now have you ever tried to raise someone up from the ground who didn't want to get up? Pray tell me, how easy will it be except the person in question leaps up?

The man's response to their pulling him up was his LEAPING UP. I tell you without flinching that if he had told them he could not walk. He would not have walked (considering the man had never walked in his life before)

Now tell me what I have added or removed from the scriptures

mbaemeka:
Only if you understood what you posted above. God has already done what he needed to do about healings by sending Jesus to die for the sicknesses and diseases of the world amongst other things. So in the same token God is not going to raise the 'sovereignty-stick' in dishing out the healing. But guess why people have so much faith for their salvation from sins and not for their health? Because we have people like you who tell them that God employs the sovereignty caveat when it comes to healings so such people don't have the required faith to LAMBANO healing as it should be. And they're forcedto concede that if God wills he will heal them and if he doesn't he won't. Meanwhile, God almighty is more willing to heal anyone who is ill than the person is in being healed.

The secret all lies in one's convictions about the truth. A Jewish leader begged Jesus to come to his house to heal his daughter and before Jesus got there the girl had died. Bless Jesus, he raised her back to life after sending all the scoffers out of the place. Later on a Gentile wanted a healing for his servant but he told Jesus that coming to his house was unnecessary. He knew that Jesus word would have sufficed. Jesus praised the Gentile for it by calling his convictions "Great faith" and that very moment the servant was healed compared to the case of the Jewish leader where the girl even died first.

trustman:
If you say at what point you got lost it might be possible to fill-in the gap for you.

vooks:
If only scriptural examples got through to your spirit and not vook's words
1. Paul
2. Epphroditus
3. Trophimus
4. Timothy
If only these men shared a fraction of your insight, they would never have to battle with sicknesses....IF ONLY.
It is waste of time and space to flash instant healings as if anybody is disputing that. The existence in scriptures of instant healings and delayed or no healings is the entire Wisdom on healing we need. You cling to one and you do injustice to the other.

mbaemeka:
It is equally a waste of time to flash the above names to me seeing that they're not Jesus himself- who ought to be the standard. Besides, I have done justice on the so-called illnesses of the names above and you could refer to the WOF thread to understand a few things.

You will quickly flash me names of Paul and co when you think it suits your view point then quickly reject the same names when I use them to show you mine. For e.g, Paul was bitten by a snake but he felt no harm. If I say it belongs to all Christians, you would ask me if I am Paul and quickly even brush aside the very words of Jesus himself.

As per healings and whether instant or not. The underlying factor is FAITH and the greater it is the better. That's what the bible says ad nauseam. Now that I have reechoed the very words of the bible why won't you just believe it?

vooks:
The sequence is VERY clear and none of what you are projecting here
1. Man seated/lying looks up to them in the epic words of Coolio 'with a tin in his hand and gleam in his eye'
2. Peter talks to him and commands him to rise in Jesus name, something he has never done
3. Peter takes him by his right hand and raises him
4. The man leaps up,standing and begins to walk

Your factual errors and additions to Holy Spirit
1. Peter NEVER TRIED to raise him, he raised him.
2. He never stretched his hand like he was offering something because he had already told him he had nothing


You had insinuated that between Peter's word and the mn rising there was some faith in his leaping but that's far from the truth. You were busy constructing a narrative to include the man's faith into the equation because in your world,healing requires minimal faith on the recipient. Repeat. The man was looking for money, he received healing WITHOUT believing nothing.

This is a public place, your words are here, he who has ears, let them wat h you justify yourself shamelessly

vooks:
Paul was NEVER bitten by a snake, that's another Pentecostal urban legend.

If Jesus is your yardstick, are you sinless as He was? Do you walk on water? How many dead have you raised?
Are you implying there are some truths these primitive Christians who gave you NT missed but the Spirit revealed to you?
Their diseases are not telling mbaemeka to be sick or anything, just that their health stands in stark contrast to the truth you purport to have, the folly of Divine Health or INSTANT healing

Nobody is discounting the value of faith, what has been clearly proved beyond doubt is the illogic behind leaping from FAITH to Divine Health or INSTANT healing/miracles. Between a first century apostle Paul or Timothy and a 2014 Negro, I'd rather the apostle ANY time

vooks:
Paul was NEVER bitten by a snake, that's another Pentecostal urban legend.

mbaemeka:
The same errant nonsense that Pride won't let you accept even in the face of very clear scriptures showing the sequence of events.

1. Peter and John didn't walk up to the man. The man SAT constantly at the beautiful gate begging for alms.

2. On entering the Gate heading for prayers they met him.

3. He as usual asked for money.

4. They asked him to look at them and then they offered him a healing instead of money.

5. They asked him to rise up and walk (compare with Paul's case at Lystra. As soon as he said rise up and walk the man did) but in this case, the man didn't rise up and walk.

6. Peter stretched forth his hands to lift the man.

7. As he did the man's feet and ankle bones RECEIVED STRENGTH.

8. The man 'leaping up', stood.

I asked you a question. When Peter stretched forth his hands to raise the man if the man refused to get up would he have? If you cannot answer the question then the issue in view is beyond you.

All that sovereignty caveat is just an escape route. Peter and John didn't pray to God for the man's healing. They applied their FAITH in the name of Jesus and the man also responded with some faith. He didn't tell them 'sirs, I cannot walk'. He gave them his hand and when they lifted him, he leaped in response. Period.

paulGrundy:
ACTS 28:1-6;

Once safely on shore, we found out that the island was called Malta. [2] The islanders showed us unusual kindness. They built a fire and welcomed us all because it was raining and cold. [3] Paul gathered a pile of brushwood and, as he put it on the fire, a viper, driven out by the heat, fastened itself on his hand. [4] When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, "This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, Justice has not allowed him to live." [5] But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. [6] The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happening to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.


This goes to prove that you don't study your bible. Smh

mbaemeka:
Quickly quoted you so as to archive this massive blunder. Paul wasn't bitten? Pentecostal lengend? Hahahahaha.

As per the early church, if you cannot see how the truths they believed in kept progressing then you have a lot of studying to do. This is an aside from all the senseless questions you asked me[b]. I don't know how my experience should be the yardstick for weighing the verisimilitude of the scriptures.[/b] Just take Jesus words for what they are. God is not a liar.

mbaemeka:
Your talk is cheap because you are merely mouthing off what you 'think' is true. Sovereignty falls flat in any instance where God was asked for the healing (in this case). I told you before that Mercy was God's response to the faith shown by Paul and co in praying for Epaphroditus. But you lot will not understand it with your one-size-fit-all approach to biblical issues that are way above your pay grade. I have asked you a question before and you evaded it. Can a man go to Obama in the name of Obama? So what is all this nonsense and lies about commanding God?

pickabeau1:
Last i remembered... we were reviewing chapter 8

All the key points from the book

trustman:
Gombs, over to you!

vooks:
He told the man to rise and he raised him by the hand. Very simple.
The rest are Negroid fantasies that least interest me.
How sure are you he couldn't have stood if he was not supported?
If the man refused to rise, he'd still have been healed. Standing never healed him, it is Peter's word. Standing was a mere testimony of wht had been done ALREADY just like Cornelius speaking in tongues was.
If God's character and glory of sovereignty is an escape route, so be it. It is a strange concept to the primitive Christians but Holy Spirit has revealed this to mbaemeka. The same Holy Spirit who preserved records of instant healing preserved records of no healing or prolonged healing. Forget everything else I have said and remember that

vooks:
Where is it written that the snake bit him?
The villagers THOUGHT he had been bitten and he would swell up and drop dead...THEY THOUGHT he had been bitten. Snakes don't bite anything they come into contact with..NatGeo 101

vooks:
Salvation and healing are as different as day and night. Here is why
3. There are incidences of healing not procured instantly but NO slightest hint of delayed acceptance of repenting sinners. Epaphroditus fell sick and approached death before God had mercy. His healing was not instant. Timothy had frequent ailments and regardless of how you translate the word ailment, it was something God could have dealt with there and then but he didn't. Instead, Paul hit the naturopathy route. Trophimus,Paul's co-worker was too sick to travel with him.

4. So you have two options, explain away these three instances as lack of faith or revise your false belief in INSTANT. Paul's thorn in the flesh I omitted for obvious reasons; you have nothing to say about it

Does the fact that they never received healing instantly void Jesus promise of responding to their faith? Nope, it just points to sovereignty. Faith, prayers and scriptures don't suspend God's sovereignty contrary to your fantasies, it is still up to God and that's why Paul says God had mercy on Epaphroditus.

So you can name ANY man of faith you can think of and I can show you a string of not-so-instant prayers answered or not answered according to his petition

DrummaBoy:
Please consider this from my daily devotionals and meditations. I hope you find it relevant to this thread.

#35. Colossians 1: 8

Colossians 1:8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

2. Spirit.

It is instructive to note that this verse has the only reference to the Holy Spirit in the epistle to the Colossians.

It is necessary to say this because it is important we lay emphasis on what the bible emphasises and deemphasize what it does also. The bible has a rich theology on the Person of the Holy Spirit and this writer does not deny this. But the story of the New Testament is not about the Holy Spirit but about Jesus Christ, his redemptive works and the graces of God that comes as a result of this. Jesus himself said that the Spirit will not speak of himself but rather glorify Christ (John 16:13-14). And it is only when Jesus is lifted up that he will draw men to himself.

There is an unhealthy emphasis placed on the Holy Spirit today especially among Pentecostals that results in people being deprived of some other rich emphasis of the bible. We find some people extending their pagan devotion to mysticism into Christianity by encouraging practices and experiences that are so called "Spirit inspired". Many of such experiences having no foundation in the scriptures. Our duty as students of the bible is to remain within the written words of the bible and to discard any experience, no matter how spiritual, not found within Holy Scripture.

John MacArthur defined mysticism as "the pursuit of a deeper or higher subjective religious experience. It is the belief that spiritual reality is perceived apart from the human intellect and natural senses. It looks for truth internally, weighing feelings, intuition, and other internal sensations more heavily than objective, observable, external data. Mysticism ultimately derives its authority from a self-actualized, self authenticated light arising from within. This irrational and anti- intellectual approach is the antithesis of Christian theology".

The root of much error in the church today is the result of "new" revelations supposedly from the Holy Spirit, coming not from scriptures but from some subjective experiences usually from the inside of the individual. It comes many times with a "spiritual" tone of "God told me...". Anything God has needed to say are here in the the bible. Our duty is to plead with him to grant us understanding of biblical text and make them relevant to us today. We are not called to go pursuing "spiritual" experiences.

Remain blessed.

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