₦airaland Forum

nlMediator:
WOF is not against delayed miracles. Teachings abound on what to while waiting

While they might not be against it, much emphasis is placed on getting it NOW, the same way churches are not Aainst holy living & righteousness but much emphasis is placed on prosperity and you know what that has led to today, people are no longer heavenly conscious but earthly conscious, how best they can live the good life here

We're talking instant miracles because somebody suggested that there's no such thing as an instant result from prayer

You didn't quite follow then, the issue wasn't that instant miracles/harvest wasn't possible rather it was an issue of the "instantness" being hinged on one's great faith !!

In order words, if you have great faith you can command your harvest to come now.

That's why I kicked against hezekiah's prayer as an example. Nothing there suggests that he got an instant reply from God because of his great faith but rather Gods mercy was at work there( I'm in no way saying his prayer had nothing to do with God changing his mind) but it was not his faith per say that moved God to add 15yrs INSTANTLY

Talking about instant harvest & "if thou shall say unto this mountain be that cast into the sea....." Why didn't Jesus command figs to appear on that tree that moment he needed them? After all he was hungry, this is the same Jesus that turned water into wine instantly!!!!

Maybe he didn't have "great faith" at that point!!!!

btw, Jesus said if you have faith as a muster seed(it has been established that the mustard seed is very small), one will say to the mountain

Gombs et al will have us believe that it is great faith that does the work & not the small muster seed size of faith that does the work

Just before you open ur mouth, I have the book "how to make your faith work" & I was in the meeting it was first taught:Charismatic Renewal Conference (this directed at Gombs)

nlMediator:
Your sweet friend in London, who thinks the bulk of the NT does not apply to Christians!

Oh, demisquare. My sweet friend indeed.

nlMediator:
The analogy is not apt. When the lions did not bite Daniel, the king and people saw it that way and knew what the miracle was. When the snake came on Paul, the people did not conclude that he survived because the snake did nothing to him. Why, because they were expecting him to swell and die, which woudn't the case if they didn't think the viper struck. And when that did not happen, they thought the gods have showed up. That's not the reaction of people who think the miracle was that the vipwer stayed quietly. It's OK for people to say that the people thought Paul was bitten when he was not. But it's not OK to say that the people saw he was not bitten and then thought it was a miracle. Both cannot go together here.

The people were free to imagine what they saw. It wouldn't be the first time and there's no legislation against wrong or faulty assumptions.. Even the disciples imagined they heard Jesus tell Peter that John the beloved would live till the second coming when nothing he said there remotely suggested that(John 21:21-23). It wasn't the first time snakes would have contact with folks in the bible and the bible correctly used bite for the episode in the wilderness. Luke avoided the word "bite" and he knew why. Even today with all the knowledge at our disposal, people would be jolted by a snake wrapping itself on a man's hand. The natural thought would be that the man is dead meat yet we see snake handlers on TV get away with such acts regularly.

They expected Paul to die because such beast was expected to bite. However, their expectation isn't the yardstick to measure biblical fact. The only fact in that scripture is that Paul had a snake fasten itself violently or hostilely to his hand yet he suffered no harm. He could have been bitten, he might not have been bitten. Either scenario is a demonstration of God's power. What I won't do is to add anything to that scripture.

Image123:
Oh, demisquare. My sweet friend indeed.

He's very much on this thread with a new moniker! I miss that moniker though.

I understand the need for new accounts, some folks just look at the past and what they wrote, and just decide to get another account!

Lobeez:
I repeat for the last time, vipers do not strike and hold large prey unless probably Paul was holding unto it. Its funny though to believe he was bitten so badly that the very long fangs of a deadly viper sunk into his flesh and even hung unto it yet so many bible translations said he was 'unharmed' or 'suffered no harm' or 'took no harm'. Two fangs piercing at least 1.5 inches into Paul's hands to me amounts to being hurt. If he 'took no harm' then therein lies the miracle because God prevented him from being bit against the natural response from a viper whose instinct is to strike when cornered.

Gombs, Mbaemeka & NlMediator are obviously trying to avoid looking at what the scripture says by engaging in distracting argument.

My pointer to the meaning of the word used in the portion in question has been 'conveniently' ignored by them.

They never want to admit they are wrong.

nlMediator:
Besides, it's amazing to see how many pages devoted to this story here. All in a bid to deny that God can save from snakes?

Is God shutting the mouth of the snake and preventing it from biting not miracle enough? Or you think God is powerless to stop the snake from biting like he closed the mouth of the lions? Doesn't God preventing a bite also mean God saved Paul?

Why paint a false picture that folks are denying the power of God in that instance?

The problem is basically TRADITION. You have heard of this passage hundreds of times used and many principles or lessons derived from it. You have been told the snake BIT Paul. That's truth for you. Most people arguing for BITE here have NEVER dug the Greek behind it until now

I am not the first Christian on earth and most certainly not the first Spirit filled believer. So I have a lot of respect of Commentaries and those who were in Christ before me. They are not authorities but certainly have a lot we can learn from. Let's look at Barnes;

And fastened on his hand - καθῆψεν kathēpsen. This word properly means to join oneself to; to touch; to adhere to. It might have been by coiling around his hand and arm, or by fastening its fangs in his hand. It is not expressly affirmed that Paul was bitten by the viper, yet it is evidently implied; and it is wholly incredible that a viper, unless miraculously prevented, should fasten himself to the hand without biting.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/acts/28.htm


I wonder how easy it is to shake/brush off a snake with even half an inch of a set of its fangs deep inside your flesh. I see strong evidence against a bite than for

Lobeez:
Very correct, most translation's maintained the word 'fastened' for very obvious reasons.
This whole thing happened in a flash, the snake quickly ran out from the pile of burning woods straight on to Paul's hands, he acted on reflex and tried to shake it off.
A rattlesnake is an example of a viper, if it had bitten Paul in that particular scenario, even Paul himself may not have even seen the bite action talk less of the Maltans.
Try watching snake bite videos, they're usually rendered in slow motion frames otherwise you'd miss it. Vipers are superfast strikers, I'm sure the Maltans knew this and so thought Paul must have been bit

Gombs:


He's very much on this thread with a new moniker! I miss that moniker though.

I understand the need for new accounts, some folks just look at the past and what they wrote, and just decide to get another account!

hehehehehe, old things are swept away.

Watch this video, viewer discretion is however advised.
I believe Paul, through the Holy Spirit may have had the same influence on the viper as do the snake handling church of Appalachia.
Notice that the venomous viper does not bite or attack them. There have been unfortunate fatalities however and this proves that sometimes it is of God that showeth mercy. I believe the miracle for Paul was in the inability of the serpent to inflict any harm or bite on Paul.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBVcsWYJd8

trustman:
Gombs, Mbaemeka & NlMediator are obviously trying to avoid looking at what the scripture says by engaging in distracting argument.

My pointer to the meaning of the word used in the portion in question has been 'conveniently' ignored by them.

They never want to admit they are wrong.

I ignored it because as always, they were senseless. I no know say e pain you like this o!

To get my attention, you have to at least make sense, at least 45% logical debatable post. Anything short would be very ignored, why do you see l don't reply lobeez at all or nannymcphee (minimally) you and goshen (you are better than him sha)?

Candour:
Is God shutting the mouth of the snake and preventing it from biting not miracle enough? Or you think God is powerless to stop the snake from biting like he closed the mouth of the lions? Doesn't God preventing a bite also mean God saved Paul?

Why paint a false picture that folks are denying the power of God in that instance?

Baba how far na!

Why didn't God stop The 3 Hebrew children from being thrown in the furnace? So, the miracle now was God stopping the mouth odf the Viper, shey? Why then, Paul, who had enough Holy Spirit like Jesus, on seeing a snake hugging his hand, shook it into the flame. Why didn't he exercise dominion like Jesus did with wild animals?

Was he scared? Some cretinous post here said it was reflex action, right?

Image123:
hehehehehe, old things are swept away.

Heheheheheh, abi?

[quote author=vooks post=27708213]The problem is basically TRADITION. You have heard of this passage hundreds of times used and many principles or lessons derived from it. You have been told the snake BIT Paul. That's truth for you. Most people arguing for BITE here have NEVER dug the Greek behind it until now

I am not the first Christian on earth and most certainly not the first Spirit filled believer. So I have a lot of respect of Commentaries and those who were in Christ before me. They are not authorities but certainly have a lot we can learn from. Let's look at Barnes;

And fastened on his hand - καθῆψεν kathēpsen. This word properly means to join oneself to; to touch; to adhere to. It might have been by coiling around his hand and arm, or by fastening its fangs in his hand. It is not expressly affirmed that Paul was bitten by the viper, yet it is evidently implied; [size=20pt]and it is wholly incredible that a viper, unless miraculously prevented, should fasten himself to the hand without biting. [/size]
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/barnes/acts/28.htm

Reading and Comprehension deficiency syndrome. Are you suffering from congenital hypothyroidism?

No wonder they sid the miracle happened by God stopping the mouth of the viper, yet the foolish Maltans there were still expecting a man who was not bitten to swell and die. They assumed he was bitten! Hmmmmm... no wonder the shifting of goal post. Now, since it incredibly impossible for a viper to fasten the hand without biting, the miracle then happened before the bite, God shut the mouth of the viper. Ok o

I wonder how easy it is to shake/brush off a snake with even half an inch of a set of its fangs deep inside your flesh. I see strong evidence against a bite than for

It's a viper, not a big cat, or an alligator or a hyena!

Dumbo,
WHEN did Jesus 'exercise dominion with wild animals'?
Miracles are not hobbies you engage in when bored which is why Jesus sent his disciples to buy food instead of multiplying nothing into a hearty meal. He shook it into the flame for the same reason you wear seatbelts.

Whether he was scared or not we are not told but he clearly had no business keeping the snake on his hand

Gombs:
Baba how far na!

Why didn't God stop The 3 Hebrew children from being thrown in the furnace? So, the miracle now was God stopping the mouth odf the Viper, shey? Why then, Paul, who had enough Holy Spirit like Jesus, on seeing a snake hugging his hand, shook it into the flame. Why didn't he exercise dominion like Jesus did with wild animals?

Was he scared? Some cretinous post here said it was reflex action, right?

M.oron,
Do you know anything about fangs?
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1129/5101695344_48fe2388e9.jpg
Can you imagine all that inside your flesh and you just shake the viper off

You need deliverance

Gombs:
Reading and Comprehension deficiency syndrome. Are you suffering from congenital hypothyroidism?

No wonder they sid the miracle happened by God stopping the mouth of the viper, yet the foolish Maltans there were still expecting a man who was not bitten to swell and die. They assumed he was bitten! Hmmmmm... no wonder the shifting of goal post. Now, since it incredibly impossible for a viper to fasten the hand without biting, the miracle then happened before the bite, God shut the mouth of the viper. Ok o



It's a viper, not a big cat, or an alligator or a hyena!

Gombs:
Baba how far na!

Why didn't God stop The 3 Hebrew children from being thrown in the furnace? So, the miracle now was God stopping the mouth odf the Viper, shey? Why then, Paul, who had enough Holy Spirit like Jesus, on seeing a snake hugging his hand, shook it into the flame. Why didn't he exercise dominion like Jesus did with wild animals?

Was he scared? Some cretinous post here said it was reflex action, right?

Boils down to God's sovereignty. You can't put God in a box. God could have stopped the 3 Hebrew children from being thrown into the furnace or allowed them to be burnt and then raise them back, who are you to ask him why? He could have made Nebuchadnezzer to go dumb or cause his hand to wither as he gave the command like king Jeroboam's. Who would have told him that's not how to do a miracle? God could have allowed the viper to mutilate Paul's hand, then returned the hand to a state like that of a new born baby. Who is the mortal to tell him how to run the show or do his thing?

That scripture didn't mention a bite. Its safer to leave it that way. The miracle is that a viper came in contact with Paul, yet was powerless to cause him harm. Christ said "they shall take up a serpent and it will not hurt them". That incidence of Paul tallied with that promise. Just leave it that way

7 pages between my last visit here and now! What speed!

^^
@gombs, maybe he is thinking a viper has the fangs of tamudo dragon!

What I've read so far

1. It fastened itself to Paul's hand

2. The Maltans assumed it was a bite

3. Paul shook a viper into the flame either due to reflex or fear.

4. Now, the miracle was God shutting the mouth of the viper, since it is incredibly impossible for the viper not to bite the hand it fastened to after running from death (flames)..

Well, , anything to keep the fact that Paul was bitten. It's cool!

Lobeez, weldone o, with your video... shey now we are in a guess class, right? The hell is this

I believe Paul, through the Holy Spirit may have had the same influence on the viper as do the snake handling church of Appalachia.

You think you've made sense, no? Now, Paul had an influence on the viper? He's now a snake charmer or what?

Amazing!

vooks:
Dumbo,
WHEN did Jesus 'exercise dominion with wild animals'?
Miracles are not hobbies you engage in when bored which is why Jesus sent his disciples to buy food instead of multiplying nothing into a hearty meal. He shook it into the flame for the same reason you wear seatbelts.

Whether he was scared or not we are not told but he clearly had no business keeping the snake on his hand

Another bait, you really don't know the Bible! You really are scripturally inept!

Now go study, if you want to know, since reading is a major challenge for you, quote this post, and I shall show you...as I always do

Go ahead kid, make my day

Gombs:
Another bait, you really don't know the Bible! You really are scripturally inept!

Now go study, if you want to know, since reading is a major challenge for you, quote this post, and I shall show you...as I always do

vooks:
M.oron,
Do you know anything about fangs?
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1129/5101695344_48fe2388e9.jpg
Can you imagine all that inside your flesh and you just shake the viper off

You need deliverance

Bobo, get sense na... Please

So the viper bit him and was trying to bite out flesh? When a snake bites, they take off, to get enough time to summon another venom. You seriously thought it bit Paul as a dog would bite anybody? ?

LambanoPeace:
7 pages between my last visit here and now! What speed!

^^
@gombs, maybe he is thinking a viper has the fangs of tamudo dragon!

What I've read so far

1. It fastened itself to Paul's hand

2. The Maltans assumed it was a bite

3. Paul shook a viper into the flame either due to reflex or fear.

4. Now, the miracle was God shutting the mouth of the viper, since it is incredibly impossible for the viper not to bite the hand it fastened to after running from death (flames)..

Well, , anything to keep the fact that Paul was bitten. It's cool!

Lobeez, weldone o, with your video... shey now we are in a guess class, right? The hell is this



You think you've made sense, no? Now, Paul had an influence on the viper? He's now a snake charmer or what?

Amazing!

You see what I deal with shey?

vooks:
Go ahead kid, make my day

Smh..ask once more, in a polite manner! You saying Jesus never exercised dominion over wild beasts? Right?

Gombs:
why do you see l don't reply lobeez at all or nannymcphee (minimally) you and goshen (you are better than him sha)?

You don't reply me because you cant stand me, I've engaged you severally and you always chicken out with your tail between your legs.

Candour:
Boils down to God's sovereignty. You can't put God in a box. God could have stopped the 3 Hebrew children from being thrown into the furnace or allowed them to be burnt and then raise them back, who are you to ask him why? He could have made Nebuchadnezzer to go dumb or cause his hand to wither as he gave the command like king Jeroboam's. Who would have told him that's not how to do a miracle? God could have allowed the viper to mutilate Paul's hand, then returned the hand to a state like that of a new born baby. Who is the mortal to tell him how to run the show or do his thing?

That scripture didn't mention a bite. Its safer to leave it that way. The miracle is that a viper came in contact with Paul, yet was powerless to cause him harm. Christ said "they shall take up a serpent and it will not hurt them". That incidence of Paul tallied with that promise. Just leave it that way

Ok, thanks for your opinion. Make sure you go take up serpents! I have left it for you your way!

Mumu,
Show me where Jesus 'exercised dominion over wild animals'

if the snake bit and took off HOW was it fastened to his hand according to your moronic theory?
They bite and remain stick because of that's how they are created to maintain a grip on the prey. Note the fangs face inwards
https://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh160/AstroGeo/smoothsnakebiting.jpg

Gombs:
Bobo, get sense na... Please

So the viper bit him and was trying to bite out flesh? When a snake bites, the take off, to get enough time to summon another venom. You seriously thought it bit Paul as a dog would bite anybody? ?

Board i.diot,
Please would you be kind enough to embarrass your puny brains for the umpteenth time?

Gombs:
Smh..ask once more, in a polite manner! You saying Jesus never exercised dominion over wild beasts? Right?

vooks:
Mumu,
Show me where Jesus 'exercised dominion over wild animals'

if the snake bit and took off HOW was it fastened to his hand according to your moronic theory?
They bite and remain stick because of that's how they are created to maintain a grip on the prey. Note the fangs face inwards
https://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh160/AstroGeo/smoothsnakebiting.jpg

So, Paul was the prey?

Dear Lord!
Nat Geo wild should have educated you. So a viper bites a rabbit and holds on to it, to maintain grip? Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaai ;

Gombs:
Ok, thanks for your opinion. Make sure you go take up serpents! I have left it for you your way!

You know say me I no dey claim say i be god neither am i a trained snake charmer or handler. Normal Humans steer clear of wild animals

vooks:
Board i.diot,
Please would you be kind enough to embarrass your puny brains for the umpteenth time?

Bobo, are you saying Jesus NEVER DID so? A yes or no would be great!

Candour:


You know say me I no dey claim say i be god neither am i a trained snake charmer or handler. Normal Humans steer clear of wild animals

Heheheheheh

You have a great sense of humor. Hope you're good?

Gombs: Reading and Comprehension deficiency syndrome. Are you suffering from congenital hypothyroidism?

And fastened on his hand - καθῆψεν kathēpsen. This word properly means to join oneself to; to touch; to adhere to. It might have been by coiling around his hand and arm, or by fastening its fangs in his hand. It is not [size=16pt]expressly affirmed that Paul was bitten by the viper[/size] yet it is evidently implied; and it is wholly incredible that a viper, [size=16pt]unless miraculously prevented[/size] should fasten himself to the hand without biting

just have an open mind, we know you have been taught that he was bitten, now the scenario is being presented in a new light, starting with the original Greek word(which doesn't suggest biting)

if you we're watching someone from afar, seeing a snake coiled around any part of his body, won't you assume he will be bitten, if yes( then your answer will account for the statement made by paul onlookers)

Am showing you how a snake fastened to Paul's hand by the bite can't possibly be shaken off with the ease revealed by Holy Spirit in Acts 28:3 BECAUSE its bite means at least half an inch of the fangs would be INSIDE Paul's hand.

It had coiled around the hand. Your artistic sketch showed a snake dangling by its GRIP/BITE. Do you ever think before posting? Now you are saying it bit and ran in which case how did they see it fastened?

Gombs:
So, Paul was the prey?

Dear Lord!
Nat Geo wild should have educated you. So a viper bites a rabbit and holds on to it, to maintain grip? Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaai ;