₦airaland Forum

sino:
I get you brother, but that is not the point I was trying to make. It is about following the prescription, following the instruction of the doctor…another analogy is this, as a student who wants to write and exam let’s say mathematics, the examiner writes, solve the following quadratic equations using the almighty formula, instead of the student to use the almighty formula, he decided to use substitution method, he may get the answers correctly, but he failed to follow simple instruction and thus he would be penalized.
That is the way I see this issue.

sino:
I love this quote of Ali (RA), and this is what I have been trying to say. I had come with examples of where the Prophet (SAW) gave specific recommendations/instructions, and I stated that we must follow such recommendations/instructions; no amount of experimentation can top the guidance of Rasulullah (SAW). And if we disobey the prophet (SAW), we are indeed disobeying Allah (SWT)

sino:
I agree with the bold, but the “paving way for the new practices” is what I disagree with, especially in ibaadah.
The Sahabah on doing what he did, informed the Prophet (SAW), when you AlBaqir come up with new things, especially in the act of ibaadah, who do you meet for ratification and endorsement?

sino:
Quickly, lets look at the istikhara example again, I said the Prophet (SAW) thought his sahabas what to do for istikhara, and you said you could use surah Fatha for it, so my question is, who are you following in using surah fatha for istikhara? Who said you can use it? Why would you use alfatha when the Prophet (SAW) thought us what to do?

I hope you understand my stand?

sino:
Indeed brother you are correct, but don’t you think it is based on context in which we use their words, for example, some people would quote Qur’an and ahadiths to mock and ridicule, and some people will quote to cause fitnah, spreading hate. It all depends on why and how they are being quoted…

I did not disagree with Ali (RA) being the first Muslim; I only tried to explain what is meant by AbuBakr (RA) being the first Muslim also.
.

sino:
Personally, I see no reason we should be arguing about it, for it would not increase anyone of us in our responsibilities to Allah (SWT).

Empiree:
hum, Sino, so you have idea all along but you gave us "igbo didi" all along?. You think I didn't know what I was saying perhaps?. Muslims get levels. that's the whole point here when it comes to beyond "foundational layer". Because some folks abuse it doesn't make it wrong.

ummitoagirl:
Abeg don't derail from the topic. Enough of this long story.....we are all Muslims, we certainly can follow any school of thought that we want! Not agreeing with a school of thought doesn't mean they are on the wrong path. Please start another thread for ur discussions, let's enjoy jinn stories jare.

AlBaqir:
There are some among us (headed by Empiree) who can give "nakali" to drive away Jinn.

ummitoagirl:
Abeg don't derail from the topic. Enough of this long story.....we are all Muslims, we certainly can follow any school of thought that we want! Not agreeing with a school of thought doesn't mean they are on the wrong path. Please start another thread for ur discussions, let's enjoy jinn stories jare.

AlBaqir:
Really am not afraid to read no matter how voluminous a book is. In the same vein, I write, express myself as much as I. I always intend to give the much needed detail to those interested to read my 'epistles'.

Rilwayne001 is Ahmad deedat of NL. They always keep me on my toes.

lanrexlan:
I really enjoyed this discussion by my brothers, Sino AlBaqir and Empiree.May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) in his mercies bless you all(Amin).Let me quickly add this.

Our Imaam in school once gave an example.He said if there was a fire outbreak in a building and some people get injured and escaped from the fire sustaining injuries.Some people saw the fire burning the building from afar but didn't get burnt while some people read on the pages of newspaper that there was a fire outbreak in a certain place.

The first category of people witnessed the fire outbreak and almost get lost their lives.

The second category of people saw the flames of the fire burning but wasn't in the building.

The third category of people only read on the pages of newspaper that there was a fire outbreak in a certain place.

So their level of faith in this fire outbreak will be different and varies.The person that witnessed the fire outbreak and escaped with injuries will be damn sure that fire really burns hard and if a person that read on the pages of newspaper tell such a person that there wasn't any fire outbreak anywhere the former may want to slatch the latter's head.

He will tell him 'I witnessed the fire outbreak, I almost get killed by it and here you are, telling me there's no fire outbreak. Are you alright?

[This Analogy was given to elaborate the belief in the Day of Judgement, that most people's faith today is just on the pages of books so muslims do bad deeds without feeling remorseful for it.
The Prophet(Peace be upon him) that saw hell and paradise has the highest of belief in the hereafter, so he's ever conscious about his deeds.

The sahabas lived with the Prophet(Peace be upon him) and saw him crying sometimes when narrating to them some stories about the day of Judgement so they are also conscious but you can't compare with the person that actually saw it.

While we are in the lowest level of faith, because we are neither saw hell nor paradise nor met the Prophet(Peace upon him) nor his companion.Only what we have is the glorious Qu'ran, so many people have doubts about the hereafter.]

He wanted to talk how we can move from the lowest level to the second level but I left school(painful).


In a Similar fashion, someone like Empiree that has witnessed the power of Surah Yasin and AlBaqir that has saw people that Surah Yasin worked for or reciting Adkars in large quantities worked for won't in any manner wants to agree with some hadith that condemns such acts and the reason is because they have witnessed these things.


Someone that has witnessed the the Shifa of the Qu'ran(Surah Al-Isra 17:82) and someone that is still reading in the verse that talks about Shifa of the Qu'ran,obviously their faiths can NEVER be the same.
Someone that had a classical Jinn possession, someone that once witnessed Ruqya and someone that only read the existence of Jinns in books, absolutely you can NEVER compared their faith about the existence of Jinns.
The first seems to have the highest of all and nobody can tell him/her there's nothing like Jinn or supernatural world.

The second person also believe in Jinn because he/she witnessed a Ruqya session but his/her faith can't be compared with the first person.

The last person reading about Jinns on the pages of books has the lowest of faith about Jinns, he/she may shiver when reading due to stories he read but you still can't compare with the first two persons.


I got brother Empiree's post about muslims getting bored or not being happy, it's absolutely true.I think the reason is that most people's faith is on the pages of books, they read it but hasn't experienced the spirituality Islam talks about because most of us today get swayed away by this Dunya.We are so absolved with the Dunya, that some people will even tell you 'Shebi mo n ki irun(But at least, I am offering solat)'.

The Ummah's faith is at all time low, even the solat in which these people claimed they are offering, they won't even wait to supplicate to Allah after it, some will be walking on their way of their homes/shops supplicating with Dhikr beads.


Most People are on 'Won ni ka ki irun, a n ki' meaning 'they said we should offer solat, we are offering it'.That's the reason someone will say the Imaam is crazy in the mosque, it simply because they don't know the gravity of what they are doing.

I remembered vividly an incident that occurred in a mosque I once offered my Jummuah prayer, the Imaam was giving an interesting Khutubah about Jaka(Zakatu-l-Filtri) only for some set of people started grumbling that Imaam is taking too much time(When the time is just 2:07pm o) they eventually removed the mimbar from the front of Imaam and shouted 'E je ki a kirun oo'(Let's prayer o).These are sad incidents you see in our mosques, people' fear of Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) and spirituality is low.

Let me cite an example, the Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Isra 17:45 -And when you recite the Qur'ân, We put between you and those who believe not in the Hereafter, an invisible veil.
In the Tafsir of Imaam Qurtubi(May Allah have mercy on him) concerning this verse.It reads: Narrated Said Bin Jubair(May Allah be pleased with him):When the Surah No. 111(Surah Masad) was revealed, the wife of Abu Kahab came looking for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his family) while Abu Bakr(May Allah be pleased with him):When was sitting beside him.Abu Bakr(May Allah be pleased with him) said to the Prophet(Peace be upon him):'I wish if you get aside(or go away) as she is coming to us, she may harm you.

The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his family) said:''There will be a screen set between me and her''.So she didn't see him.She said to Abu Bakr:'' Your companion is saying poetry against me, and Abu Bakr said:''By Allah, he doesn't say poetry.''She said:''Do you believe that?'' Then she left.

Abu Bakr said:''O Allah's messenger! She did not see you.'' The Prophet(Peace be upon him) said:''An angel was screening me from her.''.[Hadith is quoted in Musnad Abu Ya'la].

Imaam Al-Qurtubi(May Allah have mercy on him):If the above verse is recited by a real believer, he will be screened from a disbeliver(Allah knows better)[Tafsir Al-Qurtubi Volume 10, Page 269].

So if I tell someone I recited the above verse and I was screened by Allah from a gunshot targeted at me by a disbeliver, the next thing you will hear is that 'ha, Alfa e ti n lo aferi'(Alfa you are now using charms), not knowing it's the verse of the Qu'ran.

But are you just going to recite the verse while in trouble? You must have been reciting it over a long period of time and your Tawakul(Reliance) in Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) must be very strong.
I hope you get my few points and sorry for the 'epistle'.I think the fly is flying on NL these days, na one brother started am and I was infected .

Salam

lanrexlan:
I really enjoyed this discussion by my brothers, Sino AlBaqir and Empiree.May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala) in his mercies bless you all(Amin)

Empiree:
Whether modern muslims like it or not, there is mysticism in islam. Every religion has it. Islam's approach only stands out from the rest. I was with my real estate partner in September. He's Jewish. He asked me if i know about Kabbala which i affirmed. Kabbala is also a form of mysticism in Judaism. But they are more of evil Jinn type, magic. Thats why before they attack Gaza, Jinn would inform them of the right time to inflict pain on those people.

Difference between Islam and other religions is, in order to attain the level of spirituality("tassawuf" , only Allah's name and help is sought. A lot of dhkr involved with surety. The level is quiet documented in Quran and Hadith. It's called Ihsan in islamic term. Mysteriously, some folks centuries ago invented "sufism" and "tassawuf". The reason they did that was to label those who seek Ihsan a "deviant sect" or "bid'ah". The name should have just been what Allah and His messanger called it in the Book, Ihsan.

Eminent Pakistani scholar and late Dr. Ishrar Ahmed also made this conclusion that we should use the term His Majesty used in His Holy Book, Quran. And that is Ihsan(perfection). It's through this level of religiousity a muslim will receive intuitive knowledge from above. But in order to receive this knowledge, one's heart must turn to Allah 100%. You cant deceive Allah. Allah hovers btw man and his heart. He knows if you truly worshipping Him or worshipping the dunniya. He sends nur(light) into your heart to be able to see what others can not see. You will understand when others cant. He aides you with His Ruh, perhaps, where 'Ruhaniyah' emerges. Ruh-haniyah. Get it?. It's halal.

You dont invoke Allah and settle for less unless you doubt Him. This is what aides walliy, many of them we see in ilorin. They are indeed truly exist. They correct Waliy of Allah if they stray. The make dua for waliy. They offer them dua. They do lots of salawat for Rosul and waliy. Wallahu Allam. But who does this in our time?. Very few. Thats why it so strange to many muslims today. Our minds are preoccupied with azonto, money, and all that.

AlBaqir:
However, @underline that was yesteryes o. Gone are those days Ilorin used to proud of real Sheiks. Awon Alawo is what we have now. "Alu-ifa", confirmed Alawo are the "Alfas", "sheiks" in Ilorin now.

tbaba1234:
There are levels of spirituality and we are at different levels. In my short life experience, i'd say i have experienced two periods of what i thought were my highest spiritual experience. The first was when i was younger, innocent but with little or no knowledge. I barely knew how to recite the Quran and knew few surahs. However, i never made a du'a that was not responded to quickly. Sometimes, it was answered before i had finished praying. I was usually surprised. Perhaps because i was very innocent and relatively sinless (as i was below the age of accountability). At the time, i was passionate about salat and du'a but i knew nothing about the sunnah. My islam was that salat and du'a. I might even have done things that had no basis in the sunnah.

The second period was when i was more knowledgeable and could apply the practises according to the sunnah regularly and on time. The most beautiful aspect of this period is just the tranquility that you move with. Always in a state of tranquility even when things did not work according to plan. A period of complete trust in Allah. Like everything, it goes up and down.

When you talk about spirituality, it is not by shaking gates or dead animals, because jinns can also do that. Often times, it is a more personal experience. High levels of spirituality is what made the Sahaba to expel Jinns with just suratul Fatiha. Raqees today spend a lot more time trying to do the same.

There are people with very high levels of Iman but even those people experience highs and lows. High levels of spirituality can be achieved by following the sunnah.

And it is not by repeating adkhars that you put no thought into. Your mind must be there to gain benefit. Reciting adkhars with no thought or concentration is just good review. Very little benefit in that. If you know what 'alhamdulilah' means, it could move you to tears when you repeat it.

Unfortunately, this is the norm amongst us. Lazy, thoughtless adkhars.

A lot has been said, alhamdulilah.

JazakAllahu khair to all those that have contributed.

AlBaqir:
You are very much on point brother. Very much on point.

However, @underline that was yesteryes o. Gone are those days Ilorin used to proud of real Sheiks. Awon Alawo is what we have now. "Alu-ifa", confirmed Alawo are the "Alfas", "sheiks" in Ilorin now.

tola9ja:
those that call themselves salafist sufist shia e.t.c did the prophet s.a.w call himself all this names can you pls explain

Empiree:
Lol, I dont even use @bold much. But we did a lot. They are not necessarily documented but real. We say so long it's Allah's name, so be it. What we cared about was halal. I kuku understood sino all along but I am just wondering where modern ideology sneaked in from across the border

We really need to be reasonable a lot. We simply say that average dua recommendation by the prophet (upon him be peace and his household) either for specifics or random incident(s) are the beginning. He would expect us to understand his message better. Is like after Mr. A graduated from uni, he gets a job in medical field (for example). When he begins to work, he has to check books(steps his teacher taught him) every time. That sounds silly....very silly. So if this rigid ideology/methodology is coming from Saudi for instance, didnt prophet(saw) said in his last sermon "let those who are not present understand my message better..."?. Yet, despite this, we still picked up hadith and Quran before laying our hands on certain things back in the days (for reference purposes). But I just have no time to waste trying to convince others here.

If we are to stick to opposing view, wallahi liazim, we (muslims) will be at the bottom of everything. Thats why they dont understand some of the things i said here. But I am sure Albaqir comprehends . What i went through was simply practical science of everything. Yet, I did reading and writing as well.

Sino is good though. To Sino, i really want to hear more about your alfa experience. Is it possible you can tell me more about his ordeal pls?. I want description of what he saw (physically).

Yasin is a one powerful dua. I dont care what tbaba1234 really thinks of it. You cant tell folks how honey tastes, they will think it tastes like sugar, but i will tell them no. They will say it tastes like sugar cane?. I will tell them no unless and until you take a teaspoon of it. Imagine Aje (in form of bird) dropped over this man's house whether during prayer session or not. Bird fell and he brought it in and put it in cage before releasing it. Sometimes, he would lightly beat "her".

This is how I (we) knew.> Following days, a woman came around saying "Alhaji", you beat the hell out of my ribs the other day. Gbogbo ara nro mi. And he responds, didnt i tell you people whenever you going to your meetings not to pass by or over my house?. She would apologize and then take her leave. His house is wired (spiritually by Yasin ). All Jinns are driven away by this as well.

Yet all these never obstructed our daily mandatory religious duties (salat). So me no get time to waste trying to convince anyone. My advice though to those who against this is if you drive away your children from learning stuff like this in the name of bi'dah, you may regret it later. If your children grow up and see non-Muslims perform wonders, they may be convinced it is the true path. Something they should acquainted with in islam easily.

Here i am today, no one can tell me rubbish. If i sense any problem i simply enforce organized dua on myself (as in page 7). it works for me pretty much. I dont need to run to palm readers and all that nonsense. Allahu Akbar

maclatunji:
You are mixing-up what is sound with that which at the very least suspect.

You cannot be more "spiritual" than the Prophet (SAW). It is right to drop anything that is not found in his sunnah as innovation and without apologies too.

[s]We cannot say because people of other faiths are performing (wonders) which is basically an euphemism for magic that we Muslims have to copy them.[/s] Are we to start using non-Muslims as standard for Muslims?

The second period was when i was more knowledgeable and could apply the practises according to the sunnah regularly and on time. The most beautiful aspect of this period is just the tranquility that you move with. Always in a state of tranquility even when things did not work according to plan. A period of complete trust in Allah. Like everything, it goes up and down.

When you talk about spirituality, it is not by shaking gates or dead animals, because jinns can also do that. Often times, it is a more personal experience. High levels of spirituality is what made the Sahaba to expel Jinns with just suratul Fatiha. Raqees today spend a lot more time trying to do the same.

There are people with very high levels of Iman but even those people experience highs and lows. High levels of spirituality can be achieved by following the sunnah.

And it is not by repeating adkhars that you put no thought into. Your mind must be there to gain benefit.

Empiree:
You dont get it at all brother. And i have no time to waste over this. It's clear and simple. No one is advocating copying people of the Book here. Nor is anyone claiming to be more spiritual than the prophet (Allah's blessing be upon him and his household). This is a matter of methodology not bid'ah as you like us to believe. There are things communicated in the Qur'an and Hadith that are in "pregnant form". Some are symbolic etc. But reading mechanically as you want us to believe may never comprehend.

And let me tell you this but you are free to object to it. The right methodology is, say for instance, Albaqir gives me a hadith like "Ibn Umar(ra) said the prophet (saw) said if you read ikhlas 3x every night, Allah will give you xyz rewards in this world and forgive your sin".

If tbaba for instance claims this hadith is da'ef or fabricated, My approach is "i dont care". It's dua from Quran. Full stop. I dont care of who relate what or "science grade" behind it etc. But if tbaba disagrees, all i have to say is why not go practical and let's see what you get instead of simply condemning it da'ef or fabricated?. Doesnt that makes sense?. Anything after that is bluffing.

What you should be condemning is solitary hadith like "dont greet Mr. A if he passes by you. Let him greet you first" or like Aisha married prophet at 6(nauzubillah). These are clear fabricated ahadith that we should be concerned with not dua.

Surah Yasin is Allah's word. Our first approach should be positive. Forget about who narrated what. Claiming it's da'ef or fabricated is just too irrelevant for me. And remember this is not binding on anyone. I say, why dont you do the same (devout yourself on this dua instead of unnecessary "science grade". Thats for educational purposes and irrelevant to me.

It really bothers me for you to say "Are we to start using non-Muslims as standard for Muslims?". You actually think this is what i was advocating all along?. Chai, bro. This is great damage they have caused us. I thought you would get it. I am simply saying muslims need to reconnect. Not miracle this or that. Story i was telling was simply practical reference. Really simple

What i see mainstream folks doing today is "refuting" one another. This is very unhealthy and irrelevant as far as i am concern. This is what i saw them do on Facebook and other sites arguing back and fourth. I found it very unintelligent and dropped out if it. They are mainstream muslims like you brothers here seem to be doing. I am not interested in that @all. Ocean of knowledge is broad. Brother lanrexlan kinda summed up in the latest post.

Empiree:
You dont get it at all brother. And i have no time to waste over this. It's clear and simple. No one is advocating copying people of the Book here. Nor is anyone claiming to be more spiritual than the prophet (Allah's blessing be upon him and his household). This is a matter of methodology not bid'ah as you like us to believe. There are things communicated in the Qur'an and Hadith that are in "pregnant form". Some are symbolic etc. But reading mechanically as you want us to believe may never comprehend.

And let me tell you this but you are free to object to it. The right methodology is, say for instance, Albaqir gives me a hadith like "Ibn Umar(ra) said the prophet (saw) said if you read ikhlas 3x every night, Allah will give you xyz rewards in this world and forgive your sin".

If tbaba for instance claims this hadith is da'ef or fabricated, My approach is "i dont care". It's dua from Quran. Full stop. I dont care of who relate what or "science grade" behind it etc. But if tbaba disagrees, all i have to say is why not go practical and let's see what you get instead of simply condemning it da'ef or fabricated?. Doesnt that makes sense?. Anything after that is bluffing.

What you should be condemning is solitary hadith like "dont greet Mr. A if he passes by you. Let him greet you first" or like Aisha married prophet at 6(nauzubillah). These are clear fabricated ahadith that we should be concerned with not dua.

Surah Yasin is Allah's word. Our first approach should be positive. Forget about who narrated what. Claiming it's da'ef or fabricated is just too irrelevant for me. And remember this is not binding on anyone. I say, why dont you do the same (devout yourself on this dua instead of unnecessary "science grade". Thats for educational purposes and irrelevant to me.

It really bothers me for you to say "Are we to start using non-Muslims as standard for Muslims?". You actually think this is what i was advocating all along?. Chai, bro. This is great damage they have caused us. I thought you would get it. I am simply saying muslims need to reconnect. Not miracle this or that. Story i was telling was simply practical reference. Really simple

What i see mainstream folks doing today is "refuting" one another. This is very unhealthy and irrelevant as far as i am concern. This is what i saw them do on Facebook and other sites arguing back and fourth. I found it very unintelligent and dropped out if it. They are mainstream muslims like you brothers here seem to be doing. I am not interested in that @all. Ocean of knowledge is broad. Brother lanrexlan kinda summed up in the latest post.

maclatunji:
So my brother, stop promoting following obscurities.

AlBaqir:
Bro. What is obscure to you is clear and manifest to other.

maclatunji:
#Yawns

Empiree:
Knowledge Is Wisdom, wallahi. Learning everyday.