@Topic


Have seen most alfa's I either know personally or just all this salamo alfa in the mosque whom we just greet and everyone goes on his business, But later u will see them misbehaving and not doing like they know u from adam and the close people to them would be like they were trying to invoke or ask frm anything from jinn and they got frightened when it appered and madness starts.

Hav not had any experiencce though, even the common principles guys follows this days where when they have a gf they goes into istikhara to affirm how the future goes between the union or ask some alfas on it I have 50/50 believe on it (personal belief) what I feel is when islam is the root of the union, the two of u prays well and constitute the habit of bbringing out the quran when u having issues instead of visiting the alfa it might be a good marriage

Empiree, most on the narrations on Surah Yaseen, are fabricated or weak.

tbaba1234:
Empiree, most on the narrations on Surah Yaseen, are fabricated or weak.

Tell me more, pls.

Empiree:
Tell me more, pls.

There are a number of ahaadeeth which
speak of the virtues of this soorah, most of
which are, however, false and fabricated,
and some of which are slightly weak
(da’eef). We have not found any saheeh
hadeeth which speaks specifically of the
virtues of Soorat Ya-Seen.

Among the reports which have been
narrated concerning its virtues but classed
as da’eef by the scholars of hadeeth
include the following, which we are only
quoting here to warn about them:

“Everything has a heart, and the heart of
the Qur’aan is Ya-Seen; whoever reads it, it
is as if he has read the Qur’aan ten times.”

“Whoever reads Soorat Ya-Seen in one night
will be forgiven in the morning.”

“Whoever continues to read it every night
then dies, will die as a shaheed (martyr).”
“Whoever enters the graveyard and reads
Soorat Ya-Seen, their (punishment) will be
reduced that day, and he will have hasanaat
(reward) equal to the number of people in
the graveyard.”

See: al-Mawdoo’aat by Ibn al-Jawzi
(2/313); al-Fawaa’id al-Majmoo’ah by al-
Shawkaani (979, 942). See also the essay
Hadeeth Qalb al-Qur’aan Ya-Seen fi’l-
Mizaan wa Jumlat mimma ruwiya fi
Fadaa’iliha by Shaykh Muhammad ‘Amr
‘Abd al-Lateef, may Allaah preserve him.

[quote author=tbaba1234 post=28444635]

most of
which are, however, false and fabricated,
and some of which are slightly weak
(da’eef).

What standard they used to arrive at this conclusions?

We have not found any saheeh
hadeeth which speaks specifically of the
virtues of Soorat Ya-Seen.

This doesn't mean anything. At least it (the so called daef or fabricated hadith) has one chain.

“Everything has a heart, and the heart of
the Qur’aan is Ya-Seen; whoever reads it, it
is as if he has read the Qur’aan ten times.”

“Whoever reads Soorat Ya-Seen in one night
will be forgiven in the morning.”

“Whoever continues to read it every night
then dies, will die as a shaheed (martyr).”
“Whoever enters the graveyard and reads
Soorat Ya-Seen, their (punishment) will be
reduced that day, and he will have hasanaat
(reward) equal to the number of people in
the graveyard.”

These are a matter of unseen rewards They can nether be confirmed nor denied. But since the so called scholars of hadith categorized them as weak or false, on what is that based?. Did God or His prophet (saw) denied them or refuted those rewards? Fact is this is unnecessary emphasis.

I am not done yet. I will return here to tackle or refute http://islamqa.info/en/75894 using practical tactics.

^Among many other thing people lack is independent research. So many ahadith have been mistakenly, carelessly, emotionally declared daeef or mawdoo by various scholars that other scholars or one's personal research later prove it to be hassan or sahih.

Empiree

The science of hadiths are well documented.

Most of these hadiths are weak or fabricated, this will be based on weakness in isnad or lack of it.

Now, unless you are a hadith scholar, you are not an authority and I am sorry, I can not take your opinions seriously.

Scholars can debate about authencity of some hadiths but as far as I have learnt, most of hadith of surah yaseen are weak or fabricated.

A weak hadith does not mean a false hadith. It means there is a weakness in the transmission. It could be correct.

A fabricated hadith is a false hadith.

You can investigate what scholars have said about these narrations instead of making these defensive and spurious statements.

[quote author=tbaba1234 post=28449074]

The science of hadiths are well documented.

i knew you would come to this

Most of these hadiths are weak or fabricated, this will be based on weakness in isnad or lack of it.

i knew it is because of isnad. Definitely this particular hadith is not false but i challenge its weakness.

Scholars can debate about authencity of some hadiths but as far as I have learnt, most of hadith of surah yaseen are weak or fabricated.

Debate or not. Learned it or not. The Sura Yasin is dua. And the only way to test its authenticity is by practical . Let's see what comes out of it. Did you come across this when you were learning it?

Now, unless you are a hadith scholar, you are not an authority and I am sorry, I can not take your opinions seriously.

I don't claim this neither will I take their works absolute. Why did they skip fabricated hadith then in Bukhari attributed to Aisha (ra) saying rosul married her at 6?. But many among ulama still hold it authentic but dispute authenticity rewards of surah Yasin.

A weak hadith does not mean a false hadith. It means there is a weakness in the transmission. It could be correct.

A weak hadith doest not mean throwing it out or neglecting it. I dont know why this hadith of surah Yasin mysteriously tagged weak. As you can see, hadith scientists or islamaq don't dispute "rewards in this life" from the benefits of this surah. Their only problem seems to be "rewards in lifeafter" which I dont see big deal with. All I know is Allah will reward me for it.

Question is if rewards in this life are obvious, tagging it weak or false in itself is false. Thats common sense, isnt?.

There is no way to determine those 'afterlife rewards'. According to you, unless it's Mutawatir i:e numerous narrators.

Most of these hadiths are weak or fabricated, this will be based on weakness in isnad or lack of it.

tbaba1234,

Here is the thing though. We should not just quote 1400yrs old texts and leave it there. Rather the texts and works of early Ulama are stepping stones for us. Other than using isnad to determine authenticity of suspicious hadith, the other way is to practically test its authenticity in the case like this.

Some ahadith can be tested by just waiting for event(s) to unfold. Like ahadith of prophecies.

Now back to Sura Yasin, you can hold your view that it's da'ef or fabricated. I dont. I dont know method you used when you learned this. But I am suspicious it's by studying and reading. But when I was growing up, I was more practical than reading. It's only now that I am reading to affirm some things I had practically involved in.

As a matter of fact, I just came across those ahadith of Sura Yasin few days ago. Tagging it weak or fabricated is definitely not something I can accept because:

1. I actually lived amongst those who practically recited it.

2. All the fantastic worldly rewards mentioned in the ahadith of Sura Yasin, I experienced them. They are obviously exactly as hadith predicted.

3. Eye witness: I saw and felt the power of Sura Yasin.

For example, we made this dua for a stingy client. We had to recite Yasin 1,111. But with this much, he must buy a cow as instructed but he refused. He bought a kind of big ram instead. The prayer was done overnight. By the time we finished and went outside to sacrifice ram, it was dead while standing. We said 'we told you so'. It was then client believed.

Another client did similar. After we finished prayers and ready to sacrifice, this is even a big ram. No blood gushed out from the gullet. The whole thing was white. Not even a drop of blood. This means the ram was clinically dead beforehand.

Another example was after the man in question completed Surah Yasin for himself, his compound fence and gate started shaking (rumbling). We stood outside and chanting Allahu Akbar resoundingly.

Another example was when the man, me and his 2nd son were walking down his street, a woman was scared and ran for cover. I asked him what's wrong with her?. He replied she must be afraid of Yasin. He said those who afraid of it have something to hide...like they are Aje (witches). He explained this to us that evil people instead of seeing him, Yasin transforms to wild animal trying to chase them.

I may not be scholar to upgrade this ahadith of Sura Yasin but at the minimum, I can definitely confirm it's sahih through my practical experiences. I was not just reading.

I believe that those rewards, at least worldly rewards mentioned in the hadith can only be achieved due to excessive devotion of the sura NOT part-time. That is, it's has to be "career dua" in order to scythe these benefits. Not only when one encounters problems.

Remember I was narrating a story about this man. Sura Yasin is his career dua all his life. The only time he worked outside of his home was when he was teenager up to early 20s as an electrician in Lagos. Since then he had focus on prayers which put food on his table. He's married with 4 wives and 17 children. He has large compound with 2 heavy buildings, and an average building described as bungalow in it. That's 3 buildings in a compound.

In the same city, he has about 15 lands, at least 2 plots each of which 4 of them are fenced with gates. He also (because he wants to be able to move around) has poultry and fish ponds. He also has a large building in Lagos. Another 3 lands somewhere in Lagos. Another big one as big as tourists attraction in the Eastern Nigeria. Yet he works for nobody. So to my knowledge these are all I know. He may even have more that I have no idea. Now please go back up there and re-read my 1st, 2nd and 3rd posts about ahadith of Yasin's rewards and benefits dated Nov. 28 and compare them with these values/virtues. You can't get beat that.

Even though he does not work outside his home, and at this age, the only thing he relies on is tawakal ala allah. For instance, this past ileya (Eld adha), few weeks before, he told me he has no money to execute it. But 2 days before eld I was told by his daughter he just bought 3 rams and a cow. Now can you deduce this from Nigeria economy today unless you are in to politics?. How could he afford that when he doesn't work outside his home?. This is called tawakal ala allah.

When I was there, during Ramadan each year, he would slaughter a big ram (Agbo nla funfun) every 10 days after completing Surah Yasin 313 ([size=5pt]Three hundred and thirteen[/size]) with khutba and a dua called Jabar. He must finish this every 10 days before slaughtering rams.

In summary He recites Sura Yasin 939 times in Ramadan.

Also for Odun Ileya (Eld Adha), he buys nothing less than 6 Rams and a cow. Let me break this down for you. He buys average 3 rams... 1 for his father, 1 for his mother 1 for his aunt (his father's sister).

He buys another 3 big rams.... 1 for his dua Yasin which he must complete before Arafat (before sacrificing it). The other 2 big rams and big cow are for him and his family.

Note, rams he buys for dua, he and his immediate family(i:e his wives and children) do not eat from them. It's mokruh(dislike) for the nature of this dua. This is secret. You dont know this brother. He disseminates cow to the poor. He also gives away those rams for his dua. Remember I narrated this earlier. Bro, there is a lot to learn. I was not just reading growing up. I was more practical. That's why I have to say I am sorry I have to dismiss the so called da'ef and fabricated hadith of Sura Yasin. If you want more stories. I will tell you more about him. But what you are doing is reading. Mechanical learning. Nothing much to deduce from that.

Mechanical learning yields little or no result. Point is if worldly rewards are factual, probability of "unseen rewards" in afterlife are very much possible as stated in the ahadith but I dont particularly worry myself about that. "Rewards" in afterlife is the key.

The daeef classification of those Ahadiith only serves to discourage. But i dont think we should worry over it as it is definite one is going to be rewarded by reciting those Suuras. Plus those promised rewards are too mouth watering to ignore.

@empiree, i enjoy your stories a lot. I tell u, u can compile them into a book. Probably titled "personal encounters on the holy Qur'aan".

Brother Empiree has really seen many things, you've got a lot of different experiences through the sphere of life I love that .Please, where are you from?

lanrexlan:
Brother Empiree has really seen many things, you've got a lot of different experiences through the sphere of life I love that .Please, where are you from?

I am Ijebu man...Ijebu-ode and the man himself. Was not born there though.

Empiree:
I am Ijebu man...Ijebu-ode and the man himself

Hmmmmmmm, nice one.But do you live there? Cos your written Yoruba doesn't seem to be Ijebu, you write fluently in 'normal Yoruba' .

Lol, i understand it but i speak "protestant Yoruba" like you probably do. I dont think you speak Oyo dialect, do you?

lanrexlan:
Hmmmmmmm, nice one.But do you live there? Cos your written Yoruba doesn't seem to be Ijebu, you write fluently in 'normal Yoruba' .

Empiree:
Lol, i understand it but i speak "protestant" Yoruba like you probably do. I dont think you speak Oyo dialect, do you?

Nooo, I speak the normal Yoruba too.I don't speak Oyo dialect.

Allaahulmusta'aan

kazlaw2000:
The daeef classification of those Ahadiith only serves to discourage.

Not really dear brother. It is a science with set of sensible rules. Whatever meets the rules is sahih, whatever does not is either weak or fabricated. Mind you, weak ahadith are not just thrown into thrash bin like that. However, there are many ahadith firmly believed to be sahih as per the content (matn) but might have a weak sanad (chain); likewise, some ahadith might be strong in their chain (due to the 'heavyweight' narrators) but the content is false. Some of ahadith of Bukhari fall into this category. Scholars just rated them based on their strong Isnad; hence, the sharh sahih Bukhari i.e Fath al-Barr of Hafiz ibn Hajar al-Asqalani is full of criticism of many ahadith in sahih Bukhari. Interestingly, sheik Nasir deen al-Albani did the same using Ibn Hajar as reference should anybody want to crucify him.

On the other hands, various ulama helps no matter in grading hadith. So many hadith have been graded weak without reason or graded with hastiness without proper investigations.

I hope people are equipped with the necessary tools to do independent research on their own sometimes.

kazlaw2000:

But i dont think we should worry over it as it is definite one is going to be rewarded by reciting those Suuras. Plus those promised rewards are too mouth watering to ignore.
.

Yes, I think, in exceptional case like this@ underline. But "weak" hadith could be dangerous to deen sometimes if accepted hook, line and sinker.

In Shi'i science of hadith, the first criteria for grading hadith is its compatibility or non-compatibility with the holy Quran, which is al-Furqan ('the criterion') for all books. Every other thing, though important to study, is secondary.

Weather those hadith quoted by Empiree are weak or mawdoo (in line with Sunni science of grading), what is clear and sound is Sura Yasin is part of the Qur'an and Allah says:
"And We send down of the Qur'an that which is healing and mercy for the believers, but it does not increase the wrongdoers except in loss." ~Surat Al-'Isrā': 82

The healing (shifa) and Rahma (mercy) properties and power of the holy Quran (in general, and in this case sura Yasin) can never be quantify, estimated or defined. Personal experience of the manifestation of the divine power of the Quran comes to play thereby establish a firm believe and strong faith in one's heart.

You can see the difference of a practical,experienced Empiree with a theoretical tbaba1234 though I know the later too believe, with experience perhaps, this unquantify divine power of the Quran, he's just been strict on the 'science of hadith', that's the ONLY thing I love salafi's ideology for

Wa salam.

Empiree:
Lol, i understand it but i speak "protestant" Yoruba like you probably do. I dont think you speak Oyo dialect, do you?

lanrexlan:
Nooo, I speak the normal Yoruba too.I don't speak Oyo dialect.

You mean that corrupt Yoruba language we speak today is normal/protestant Let's go back to our root and learn the Ijinle Yoruba, and that's Oyo dialect. There's power and secrets in every language. The moment the real dialect is corrupted or abandoned, that power and secrets vanished.
I don't think there's a 'successful nation' today that abandoned or corrupted their mother-tongue.

AlBaqir:




You mean that corrupt Yoruba language we speak today is normal/protestant Let's go back to our root and learn the Ijinle Yoruba, and that's Oyo dialect. There's power and secrets in every language. The moment the real dialect is corrupted or abandoned, that power and secrets vanished.
I don't think there's a 'successful nation' today that abandoned or corrupted their mother-tongue.

Those people who speak Oyo dialect or other dialects are now seen as uneducated, barbaric, locals etc. That's just sad. The same we now have emerging in Islam. "protestant Islam" which is devoiding us of spiritual guidance.

Interesting discuss here, just want to add my observations and thoughts.

I have come to understand that people would go to any length for power, money and fame, and our alfas are not left out. Recently, i was discussing with one of my ustaz about rawaniya, which he corrected to ruhaniyah meaning spirits, According to him, they are Jinn but they are Muslims. He made mention of the fact that he had encountered them before while reciting Ya Lateef (i cant remember the count, but i think it was in the thousands), he said they are the most beautiful creatures he had ever seen....All was sounding interesting until he mentioned what he had to go through, he said while making the recitation, he would be naked in the masjid, and still he would feel extremely hot that even the fans in the masjid couldn't abate the heat. (I didn't ask further in respect to what additional thing he was reciting with Ya Lateef)

My question is what was he really looking for? From what i gathered from our little discussion, i think it was power and money cos he hinted that he would have been stupendously rich if he had guidance on what next to do after meeting with the creature. To me, he might just have been hallucinating...

Some alfas use tricks (magic), some use jinns and the likes to convince and confuse. And in truth, some alfas are sincere and righteous, they stick to the Sunnah.

I believe if we understand that as Muslims, the allowance given to us in supererogatory forms of worship especially in zikr, nawafil and tilawatul Qur'an (in terms of count) that we choose to perform, cannot be used as a template for others (i.e mandatory on others), that we should do whatever capacity we can as long as we do not get tired and mumbling some mumbo jumbo for it is Narrated by 'Aisha:

"Once the Prophet came while a woman was sitting with me. He said, "Who is she?" I replied, "She is so and so," and told him about her (excessive) praying. He said disapprovingly, "Do (good) deeds which is within your capacity (without being overtaxed) as Allah does not get tired (of giving rewards) but (surely) you will get tired and the best deed (act of Worship) in the sight of Allah is that which is done regularly."
Sahih Bukhari Vol 1, Book 2, No 41

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights."
(See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1). Sahih Bukhari Vol 1, Book 2, No 38

That what is given to us by the Prophet (SAW) is far superior to whatever we can come up with,

Sa‘d b. Abi Waqqås relates that he, along with Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, visited a woman who had infront of her some date stones or pebbles on which she was counting the glorification of Allah. So he said to her: “Shall I not inform you of something that would be easier or be better for you than this? Say: Glory be to Allah (Sub ̇håna’Llåh) as many times as what He created in the heavens. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He has created on earth. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He created between them. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He is creating. Then Allah is greater (Allåhu akbar) a like number of times; then Praise be to Allah (al ̇amduli’Llåh) a similar number of times; then There is no deity worthy of worship sav Allah (lå ilåha illa’Llåh) a like number of times; then There is no might nor power except Allah (lå ̇hawla wa lå quwwata illa bi’Llåh) a like number of times.”
Abu Dåwud, no.1500; al-Tirmidhi, no.3803, who said it is H ̇asan gharib. Al-Håkim deemed it Saheeh in al-Mustadrak, 1: 547, and al-Dhahabi concurred

Safiyyah relates: Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, visited me whilst I had in front of me four thousand date stones upon which I was counting glorifications. He said: “Do you count glorifications on these? Shall I not teach you what surpasses this?” I replied: Teach me. He said: “Say, sub ̇åna’Llåh ‘adada khalqihi - Glory be to Allah as many times as what He has created.”
Al-Tirmidhi, no.3789, who declared it gharib. Al-Håkim, 1:548, graded it as Sahih, and al-Dhahabi was of the same view. Ibn Hajr al-‘Asqalåni though, graded the Hadith Hasan in Natå’ij al-Afkår, 1:79.

And the fact that our acts of worship is accepted only if we have sincerity (al-Ikhlas) and following the Prophet (SAW) (al-mutaaba’ah), then we wouldn't be worrying ourselves with Ya seen 1,111 or Ya Lateef 70 million!

And in regards to al-mutaaba'ah, Sheikh Uthaymeen stated,

“And in order that it will be known – O brothers – that al-mutaaba’ah cannot be actualized, except when the action is in agreement with the Sharee’ah in six affairs:

The First:as-Sabab (reason, motive); So when the person worships Allaah with act of worship that is accompanied by a motive that is not legislated by the Sharee’ah, then it is an innovation that is rejected back to its doer. An example of that is when some of the people commemorate the twenty-seventh night of Rajab under the pretence that it was the night in which the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) ascended. So tahajjud (the night Prayer) is worship. However, when it is accompanied with this motive, it becomes an innovation. This is because this action of worship is built upon a motive that has not been confirmed in the Sharee’ah. And this description – the conformity of the worship to the Sharee’ah in motive – is an important affair that clarifies many innovations from amongst those that are thought to be from the Sunnah, yet they are not from the Sunnah.

The Second: al-Jins (type); so it is inevitable that the act of worship be in conformity to the Sharee’ah in its jins (type). So if the person worships with an act of worship whose type is not legislated, then it is not accepted. An example of that is if a man were to slaughter a horse, then this sacrifice would not be correct, because it has opposed the Sharee’ah in the type. So the blood sacrifices cannot be done, except with cattle, grazing livestock, camels, cows and sheep.

The Third: al-Qadr (quantity); so if the person increases in the Prayer that is obligatory, then we say that this is an innovation that is not accepted, because it opposes the Sharee’ah in quantity. With all the more reason, if the person prays the noon Prayer for example as five units, then his Prayer is not correct by agreement.

The Fourth: al-Kayfiyyah (manner, mode); so if a man performs ablution, and he begins with washing the feet, then he wipes his head, then he washes his hands, then his face, then we say that his ablution is null and void, because it opposes the Sharee’ah in manner.

The Fifth: az-Zamaan (time); so if the person slaughters in the first days of Dhul-Hijjah, then his blood sacrifice will not be accepted due it opposing the Sharee’ah in time. And I have heard that some of the people slaughter sheep during the month of Ramadaan in order to draw closer to Allaah with blood sacrifice. So this action in this manner is an innovation, because there is nothing with regards to drawing closer to Allaah with slaughtering, except for blood sacrifice, gifts and the ’aqeeqah. As for slaughtering in Ramadaan along with the belief that one will attain the reward of slaughtering, such as the blood sacrifice in ’Eedul-Adhaa, or slaughtering for the sake of meat, then this is permissible.

The Sixth: al-Makaan (place); so if a man performs i’tikaaf in other than a mosque, then his i’tikaaf is not correct. And that is because the i’tikaaf cannot occur, except in the mosques. And if a woman says, ‘I wish to perform i’tikaaf in the musallaa (place of Prayer) in the house,’ then her i’tikaaf is not correct due to opposition of the Sharee’ah in place. And from the examples of that is if a man desires to perform tawaaf. So he finds that the area of tawaaf has become too confined and he finds that whatever is around it has become too confined. So he starts to perform tawaaf from behind the mosque, then his tawaaf will not be correct, because the place of the tawaaf is the house.

So the act of worship cannot be considered a righteous action, except if two conditions are fulfilled with regards to it, the first is al-ikhlaas (sincerity) and the second is al-mutaaba’ah (following the Prophet). And al-mutaaba’ah cannot be fulfilled, except with the six affairs that have been previously mentioned.”

(Six Conditions of Ibaadah By Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen)

I believe what is important is building the right aqeedah, having faith such that the sahabas had which made them cure a snake bite with Al-fatha. A lot of people flee from what is recommended, but are looking for shortcuts, they wouldn't mind sitting for several days reciting 70 million Ya Lateef, cos they've been told it would give them this and that, but they cannot stand in the middle of the night for tahajjud till their legs become swollen like the prophet (SAW) seeking only the pleasure of Allah (SWT).

And on tawwakul,;

Narrated from Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the Prophet (SAW) said:

"If only you relied on Allah a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs."
Ahmad, An-Nasaa’I, Ibn Majah, Al-Hakim and At-Tirmidhi said: "Hassan sahih"

while studying this hadith, my Sheikh stated that the reason the Prophet (SAW) used the instance of a bird is that, the bird never stays in its nest all day, it moves about looking for what to eat, it flies from one sport to another, never resting in a particular place for long and such should be the case of a man who understands reliance on Allah (SWT).

And Allah (SWT) gives karamah to whomsoever he wills, your surest way to spirituality is by following the Sunnah!

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

Jazakallahu Khairan sino,

Immediately empiree mentioned 'rawaniyah', I already knew that there were either muslim jinns or jinns that claim to be muslim.

All these recite x , thousands of times are just not part of the sunnah. Moderate simplicity.

tbaba1234:
Jazakallahu Khairan sino,
Immediately empiree mentioned 'rawaniyah', I already knew that there were either muslim jinns or jinns that claim to be muslim.
All these recite x , thousands of times are just not part of the sunnah. Moderate simplicity.

Wa iyyakum bro, people have neglected the sunnah, and the sunnah way is the easiest and surest way. May Allah continue to guide us ameen.

Sino: All was sounding interesting until he mentioned what he had to go through, he said while making the recitation, he would be Unclad in the masjid, and still he would feel extremely hot that even the fans in the masjid couldn't abate the heat.

Lol, I know of a story of someone that will be reciting du'a unclad in the toilet, standing with one leg on the WC and the other leg on the floor.
People dey look for different things o

^I really don't know about all these one leg up, naked( body) dua. That's their problem

Empiree:
It seems that tbaba1234 has problem with x rerward. I thought I talked about this already. Allah determines rewards. I don't worry myself how much rewards are behind abc numbers of dua. I just do it. Perhaps tbaba need to now declare those ahadith that put x rewards on certain dua accepted by mainstream. Also there is no mention Rawaniyah or ruhaniyah in my latest tales. This is about Sura Yasin. tbaba loves talking about reading Qur'an and reflecting on it. Do you think this reflection is merely reciting it one time or twice and that's it.?. No, it requires some devotion. And I told you about a man that I personally experienced and his works and the next thing you would say is he's overtasking himself, he's not following sunah. I mentioned earlier about his fence and gate shaking after reciting Yasin 1,111. You think you can experience this by reciting it couple of times to achieve what he experienced?. Well, I will be back here inshallah. If you cant do it, you don't have to quote ahadith cheaply to discourage others. This man doesn't force it down the throat of anyone. Not does he complain overburden himself. So far, no Qur'an quotation. everything said by Sino is either ahadith, hearsays, and opinion of a past ulama. From what I'm reading here it makes me understand more why we are where today, backward. It's still the same thing. Mechanical learning. so far none of you have practical experience but I did. Yet you are the ones quoting how spiritual and great past ulama were?. when I am free I will return here.

The hadith is a very important part of Islamic law as it constitutes sayings of the prophet. We are told to follow the best of examples from the Quran.

There is nothing wrong in reciting the Quran as many times as you want. What is incorrect is ascribing a specific figure for some reward that is not evidenced in the Sunnah. Something that was not practised by the messenger or even his closest companions.

If you have the strength and will to recite a milion time, there is nothing wrong. However do not put a figure to it.

Point : Do what you are capable of. Moderation in religion is very important

There are several simple duas taught by the prophet for different situations. There are Dua's contained in the Quran as well. These are simple prayers that can be implemented in your daily life. I can also talk about my own experiences by just following the routine practises.

It is best to continuously do small but regular dhikr that can be maintained than to exert yourself in something that you can not maintain.

[quote author=sino post=28500371]Interesting discuss here, just want to add my observations and thoughts.

I have come to understand that people would go to any length for power, money and fame, and our alfas are not left out.

Sure. But let's not pretend we dont need wealth top serve deen, personal needs etc. What I against is seeking it through illegal means and purely for worldy gain. But in order to acquire this, we can expect them to run to Babalawo to get this. The can invoke Allah all they want. It's non of anyone's business.

Recently, i was discussing with one of my ustaz about rawaniya, which he corrected to ruhaniyah meaning spirits, According to him, they are Jinn but they are Muslims. He made mention of the fact that he had encountered them before while reciting Ya Lateef (i cant remember the count, but i think it was in the thousands), he said they are the most beautiful creatures he had ever seen....

@bold, I have to disagree with that but for the sake of this thread, I will do a further reseach. Yes, thanks so much. I think they pronuced it in yoruba accent "Rawainiyah"

All was sounding interesting until he mentioned what he had to go through, he said while making the recitation, he would be naked in the masjid, and still he would feel extremely hot that even the fans in the masjid couldn't abate the heat. (I didn't ask further in respect to what additional thing he was reciting with Ya Lateef)

This is his problem. I dont know what he was up to. I cant independently affirm this.

My question is what was he really looking for? From what i gathered from our little discussion, i think it was power and money cos he hinted that he would have been stupendously rich if he had guidance on what next to do after meeting with the creature. To me, he might just have been hallucinating...

He sounds like unwise man

Some alfas use tricks (magic), some use jinns and the likes to convince and confuse. And in truth, some alfas are sincere and righteous, they stick to the Sunnah.

True to some. No comment

I believe if we understand that as Muslims, the allowance given to us in supererogatory forms of worship especially in zikr, nawafil and tilawatul Qur'an (in terms of count) that we choose to perform, cannot be used as a template for others (i.e mandatory on others), that we should do whatever capacity we can as long as we do not get tired and mumbling some mumbo jumbo for it is

Pay attention to bold again please, what's zikr? isnt invoking Allah's name, reciting Quran etc And these are not done in 5mins and that's. There is no reflection in that. It's gotta be consistent. So he chose Yasin as much as he wants. Is that opposite of zikr? And ofcourse, he does Tahajjud

Narrated by 'Aisha:

"Once the Prophet came while a woman was sitting with me. He said, "Who is she?" I replied, "She is so and so," and told him about her (excessive) praying. He said disapprovingly, "Do (good) deeds which is within your capacity (without being overtaxed) as Allah does not get tired (of giving rewards) but (surely) you will get tired and the best deed (act of Worship) in the sight of Allah is that which is done regularly."
Sahih Bukhari Vol 1, Book 2, No 41

Exactly, he does his Yasin regularly and he got "rewards". He doesnt complain nor does he bother others. The only time he 'bothers' others is when he has clients and they had to recite lots. But this is employment like. So they get paid. Whats the problem with that?

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights."
(See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1). Sahih Bukhari Vol 1, Book 2, No 38

Another beautiful one. Unfortunately, he doesnt complain. This hadith says 'will not be able to continue in that way'. But this man in question continue like that till today and waxing strong. You may have to upgrade your understanding of "overburden". There are levels of Iman: Muslim, Mumin, Musin. You think Musin and Mumin would do what average muslims do in order to reach the status?. I doubt that.

That what is given to us by the Prophet (SAW) is far superior to whatever we can come up with,

Absolutely. Those people also accept this. But we say Quran sums things up. Do as much good deeds to get close to Him. He doesnt hurt anyone. Concern seems to be the counts which scares you brothers. I said before it's not important. You and tbaba1234 seem to have problem with counts when I or others say it. But there are bunch of ahadith in Sunni text that mention something like this, yet you brothers dont seem to have problem with that unless those who do not share your ideology quote them. I have said time and again that I dont worry myself over x rewards behind abc dua. Rewards are best left to Allah. They dont need to mysteriously tag those ahadith fabricated or weak. If that is the case, were the narrators of those ahadith high on shisha when they wrote those ahadith. The man himself gleaned some of those dua with counts from Sahih ahadith. So why are you brothers having problem with my tales?

Sa‘d b. Abi Waqqås relates that he, along with Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, visited a woman who had infront of her some date stones or pebbles on which she was counting the glorification of Allah. So he said to her: “Shall I not inform you of something that would be easier or be better for you than this? Say: Glory be to Allah (Sub ̇håna’Llåh) as many times as what He created in the heavens. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He has created on earth. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He created between them. Glory be to Allah as many times as what He is creating. Then Allah is greater (Allåhu akbar) a like number of times; then Praise be to Allah (al ̇amduli’Llåh) a similar number of times; then There is no deity worthy of worship sav Allah (lå ilåha illa’Llåh) a like number of times; then There is no might nor power except Allah (lå ̇hawla wa lå quwwata illa bi’Llåh) a like number of times.”
Abu Dåwud, no.1500; al-Tirmidhi, no.3803, who said it is H ̇asan gharib. Al-Håkim deemed it Saheeh in al-Mustadrak, 1: 547, and al-Dhahabi concurred

Honestly, this is still saying the same thing as former...

Safiyyah relates: Allah’s Messenger, peace be upon him, visited me whilst I had in front of me four thousand date stones upon which I was counting glorifications. He said: “Do you count glorifications on these? Shall I not teach you what surpasses this?” I replied: Teach me. He said: “Say, sub ̇åna’Llåh ‘adada khalqihi - Glory be to Allah as many times as what He has created.”
Al-Tirmidhi, no.3789, who declared it gharib. Al-Håkim, 1:548, graded it as Sahih, and al-Dhahabi was of the same view. Ibn Hajr al-‘Asqalåni though, graded the Hadith Hasan in Natå’ij al-Afkår, 1:79.

As many times as what He has created. Humm, what Allah created are far greater in number than 4000 mentioned in this hadith. So Safiyyah is going to be saying "sub ̇åna’Llåh ‘adada khalqihi" forever. Brothers dont get it.

And the fact that our acts of worship is accepted only if we have sincerity (al-Ikhlas) and following the Prophet (SAW) (al-mutaaba’ah), then we wouldn't be worrying ourselves with Ya seen 1,111 or Ya Lateef 70 million!

You definitely cant compare average muslims to Mumin and Musin. The later are far more sincere and devoted. That much counts of Yasin and Ya Lateef, are Allah's names. He is Just and would never let your deeds in vain. I smell laziness

And in regards to al-mutaaba'ah, Sheikh Uthaymeen stated,

(Six Conditions of Ibaadah By Shaykh Muhammad bin Saalih al-`Uthaymeen)

I believe what is important is building the right aqeedah, having faith such that the sahabas had which made them cure a snake bite with Al-fatha. A lot of people flee from what is recommended, but are looking for shortcuts, they wouldn't mind sitting for several days reciting 70 million Ya Lateef, cos they've been told it would give them this and that, but they cannot stand in the middle of the night for tahajjud till their legs become swollen like the prophet (SAW) seeking only the pleasure of Allah (SWT).

You should be criticizing those ahadith written by narrators. This man I am talking about didnt compile the ahadith. Honestly, as long as they bother no one, I dont see whats wrong with that. So far, this is opinion. I am sure there would be scholars in his time would have contrary opinion.

And on tawwakul,;

Narrated from Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the Prophet (SAW) said:

"If only you relied on Allah a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs."
Ahmad, An-Nasaa’I, Ibn Majah, Al-Hakim and At-Tirmidhi said: "Hassan sahih"

Is there anyone doing the @bold nowadays?. They can only yell about it on internet but when they are confronted with calamities in real life, they visit Babalawo or Alfas fast fast. Yet still call themselves AlhuSunnah Wajamah. I dont trust no one. I have seen a lot regarding this.

while studying this hadith, my Sheikh stated that the reason the Prophet (SAW) used the instance of a bird is that, the bird never stays in its nest all day, it moves about looking for what to eat, it flies from one sport to another, never resting in a particular place for long and such should be the case of a man who understands reliance on Allah (SWT).

This one is interesting. If i understand correctly, you most likely referring to my earlier post that the man doesnt work outside his home right?. Good. I am sure you dont have problem with Oyinbo people who work from home. You ever heard of work from home or WorkAtHome business in the West. If you dont have problem with that you shouldnt with this man either. He works from home. Thats the basic understand of it. Besides, not just work from home but business owner. You ever heard of small business or self employed men and women in the West?. People pray to be self employed than working 9-5 for others and making others rich. Please let's stop this solitary quotation to degrade fellow muslims while having no problem with White folks working from home. This doenst make sense to me. This statement is for lazy men and women, after graduating from college, refuse to find job but sit home. So this criticism doesnt fit this man. And pls dont even think for a second that Ruhaniyah is the one bringing him money. Thats haram.

And Allah (SWT) gives karamah to whomsoever he wills, your surest way to spirituality is by following the Sunnah!

And Allah (SWT) knows best.

And he got it. He has his Karamah something many dont. You think karama comes easy? No No No. Strive for it brother strive for it. Now, we see karamah being displayed here and we criticized it yet we so much praise past Ulama with great knowledge, elevated with karama, excelled in modern sciences etc. Please tell me in our modern time (today) those who follow simple analysis you stated above and yet have attained clear felicity, unbelievable high status etc like this one?. Please let me know cus I havent seen one other than from among those who are labeled sufis. Definitely not fellas yelling about shirk bid'ah shirk bid'ah. I hope you do not find anything offensive in my replies. But at this time, I would have to zip it cus with criticism, there is no way to learn anything. I am not here to teach rather was only narrating. To attack it with criticism is just very gross.

[quote author=tbaba1234 post=28515429]tbaba1234

The hadith is a very important part of Islamic law as it constitutes sayings of the prophet. We are told to follow the best of examples from the Quran.

And multiple deeds those people do is non-sunnah? Those dua are mostly found in the hadith.

There is nothing wrong in reciting the Quran as many times as you want. What is incorrect is ascribing a specific figure for some reward that is not evidenced in the Sunnah. Something that was not practised by the messenger or even his closest companions.

You should be criticizing those ahadith narrators and compilers not this man and those like him. They got most of these dua with counts from hadith. They dont care whether they are da'ef or fabricated. What they know is they are in Sahih hadith which means sound and good to them and it works. So whats the problem?

If you have the strength and will to recite a milion time, there is nothing wrong. However do not put a figure to it.

At least you agree they could do as much as they want. You worry so much about figure. Get off your mind from that, please. That seems scary to you or something?. Criticize narrators not Supplicants

Point : Do what you are capable of. Moderation in religion is very important

No one dispute this. And this man doesnt consider Yasin 1,111 overburden. I still see no reason for unnecessary criticisms

There are several simple duas taught by the prophet for different situations.

Even with several simple dua, say for instance, "Ya Rahman", you still have to do as many as you can. You just have problem with count.

There are Dua's contained in the Quran as well. These are simple prayers that can be implemented in your daily life.

You see, this whole thing is just in cycle. I still see no reason for condemnation. So far, you agreeing with as many Yasin recitation but just unconfortable with x rewards and count.

I can also talk about my own experiences by just following the routine practises.

There you go. Just go ahead and narrate it already instead of unnecessary criticism. This platform is for sharing.

It is best to continuously do small but regular dhikr that can be maintained than to exert yourself in something that you can not maintain.

He doesnt complain. He's almost 70 and he started continuously with small dhikr. So why he cant go overboard in 40 yrs?. He knows what he wanted. He went for it and got it. He got the nerve. And I didnt say i can proudly do Yasin 1,111 in a sit. You seem to have problem with that. It's me exerting him cus of what I experienced NOT him exerting himself. I am the one proud of him. Thats all.

In nutshell, You see, from everything you said up there, there is no clear wrongdoing except for your schism against my narration. You only seem to disagree with what you consider extreme in ibadah and at the end of the day, you agree with dikr. How many do dikr today?. Few, but we criticize those who excelled in doing dikr like this man. Same questioned posed at Bro. AbdulaRahaman Green, like what's your problem with Sufis?. I simply brushed aside his answer. I thought he would be specific with "shirk" they do. I dont understand this.

Neither this man nor others I am aware of forced it down the throat of anyone. Nor do they compelled or mandate it on others. You see, the story i am narrating and yourself, is like Khidr (as) and Musa (as). Because Moses could not be patient was the reason why prophet Muhammad (saw) was unable to narrate fantastic stories btw Khidr and Musa to us. Musa kept breaking in and asking questions despite warnings to be quiet until tales are over.

According to authentic (usually Sufis) interpretation of encounters btw Musa(as) and khidr(as), their understanding is that Allah is using Musa to pass message across to those people who would behave just like that. We do not believe Musa is deficient not to be patient and learn from khidr. We believe he was used by Allah for a purpose in that scenario. Like we have today, zionists(jews) think of themselves as elite of mankind and see non Jews as subhuman. But the people (like muslims) they consider subhuman actually know better. Same we have among muslims. Salafis see other muslims as stray from the path and they alone are correct. I hope you get this.

So I am not telling this tale anymore unless for rare reference(s). You gotta tolerate it and them deduce whatever you want later. I dont jump on anyone here. You can not learn like that brother.

Say for instance, there is client that needs such service (Yasin 1,111+others) and I introduce you to him to be part of the team of Alfas to recite the dua, you can not tell him not to put count on Yasin or Ya Lateef etc or start questioning him because you think you have right aqeeda. If you do that, you will be excused. He's the boss. This is not a burden on you. It's simply like a day labor and you are paid right there in your sit during prayer or shortly after. So whats burden in that?. You just jumped to conclusions without letting me finish. The dua is in group we all share it. You do as much as you can and get most likely same pay with those who do better than you.

Thanks again Sino, for correct pronunciation of ruhaniya. I was able to get article on it unlike before. Anyone care to read the link below. I do not believe they are Jinn. According to this man, they are next in rank to Malaika (Angels). They are pure or simply called white. Rank according to strength,

1. Malaika

2. Ruhaniya

3. Jinn

http://karma-rebirth.blogfa.com/post-14.aspx

I can not take the man with Ya Lateef's word for him. He doesnt know whats he's doing in Ya Lateef and how did he recognize it's Jinn?. But this man who's acquainted with it for almost 30yrs said it Ruhaniyah and next in rank to Malaika. They are in the middle according to him. Someone also said this in another thread. We can only understand this by the light of Quran. Quran says " All praise is due to Allah The Lord of the Worlds (and all that exist) is put in bracket. Why Allah did not mention their name "Ruhaniyah" as we know it is best known to Him. What is known to us is Allah created all kinds and types of creatures.....that we can see and cant see. For example, "Egbere" in Yorubaland exist but Quran does not mention Egbere. Should we say because of that there is nothing like Egbere? I dont know other name for them. Walahu Alam

And besides, there seems to be various a hadith condemning the use of Jinn while other ahadith only allow it if it's for good purposes and within short period like AlBaqir said in another post. And the link above seems to converge with my opinion a bit. Wallahu Alam.

But tbaba1234 simply dismiss them outright for whatever reason. There is nothing to deduce from that.

Empiree:
Thanks again Sino, for correct pronunciation of ruhaniya. I was able to get article on it unlike before. Anyone care to read the link below. I do not believe they are Jinn. According to this man, they are next in rank to Malaika (Angels). They are pure or simply called white. Rank according to strength,

1. Malaika

2. Ruhaniya

3. Jinn

http://karma-rebirth.blogfa.com/post-14.aspx

There is no such classification in that link.

tbaba1234:


There is no such classification in that link.

No, was referring to the man. I just posted the article for reading purposes.