Henry120:


SAAF Gripens are the C/D models. Stop telling yourself a lie.

At no point did I mention stealth been a pre-requisite for 5th Generation.

i posted sources before that clearly states that Gripen c/d are 4.5gen and sources have been posted previously that gripen ng/,e/f will be the first 6thgen aircraft

And yes saaf gripens are different because they operate the Cobra HMD witch is one of the most advanced HMD in service, the cobra HMD are also being integrated in the e/f

www.saabgroup.com/en/About-Saab/Newsroom/Press-releases--News/2011---9/Helmet-Mounted-Display-System-now-operational-in-South-African-Air-Force/?a7pageid=37457#.VIX0GdKUfIQ

MikeCZAR:
Yes, there's nothing wrong there.

The Al tarig glide bomb is integrated on the Hawkm

and the A~Darter SRAAM?

Henry120:


SAAF JAS-39D
(click to view full)
In 1999, South Africa became the Saab JAS-39 Gripen‘s 1st export customer, ordering 26 fighters.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/south-africa-military-maintenance-matters-010956/


Actually, I was correct.

15 years
26 planes
8 pilots to show


Embarrassing

Selection doesn't mean contract.

Bae systems won the contract to supply SAAF with 28 Gripens, that didn't mean the signing of the contracts.

Similar to Brazil right now, Saab won the contract to supply them with Gripens but negotiations are still ongoing.

The "term" JAS-39 is used by the Swedish air force only.

You're now disappointing me henry, becoming augubugbu. We'll start calling you Heruburubu!!

Behold : The mighty Gripen showing off her weapons

MikeCZAR:
Yes, but the SAAF C/D aircraft are different from others operated by other air forces or should I say from the basic models.

Answer this: What was the kill ratio SAAF Gripens experienced against others during Exercise Lion effort in Sweden?

How would I know the Kill ratio, did I tell you I was 1 of your 8 Gripen pilots?

There are currently two know types of Gripen,
JAS 39 Gripen C/D models
JAS 39 Gripen E/F models.

EVarn:
and the A~Darter SRAAM?

The missile will first be operational on the Gripens.

Then when funds become available it will be integrated on the Hawk.

Can you comprehend?

MikeCZAR:
What lie?

What are you saying?,dont try your confusion tactics on me!

Henry120:


How would I know the Kill ratio, did I tell you I was 1 of your 8 Gripen pilots?

There are currently two know types of Gripen,
JAS 39 Gripen C/D models
JAS 39 Gripen E/F models.

what was the kill ratio Heruburubu?

South African Gripens are slightly different from others.

MikeCZAR:
The C/D Gripens are 4 generation. The SAAF Gripens are different from others, what are you talking about?

Do you know when the C/D versions become operational?

Again you think stealth is 5 generation.

Yes my friend here are some sources that prove Gripen c/d are 4.5 gen aircraft:
www.asianmilitaryreview.com/4-5-generation-combat-aircraft/
scribol.com/technology/russia-responds-to-the-joint-strike-fighter-program
hwww.brighthub.com/science/aviation/articles/92286.aspx

And you are right SAAF gripens are different as they operate the ground-braking Cobra HMD

EVarn:
What are you saying?,dont try your confusion tactics on me!

"If you can't convince them, Confuse them"

But won't use that on you, since I have enough information to clear the lies in your head.

Henry120:


How would I know the Kill ratio, did I tell you I was 1 of your 8 Gripen pilots?

There are currently two know types of Gripen,
JAS 39 Gripen C/D models
JAS 39 Gripen E/F models.

Gripen e/f are not in service yet only from 2020 will they become active.

jln115:


Gripen e/f are not in service yet only from 2020 will they become active.

Yes, around 2017 though.

Development is still ongoing.

jln115:


Yes my friend here are some sources that prove Gripen c/d are 4.5 gen aircraft:
www.asianmilitaryreview.com/4-5-generation-combat-aircraft/
scribol.com/technology/russia-responds-to-the-joint-strike-fighter-program
hwww.brighthub.com/science/aviation/articles/92286.aspx

And you are right SAAF gripens are different as they operate the ground-braking Cobra HMD

Besides the Cobra HMD.

They have a lot of SA made systems in them. Modified for our needs.

#SmartBuyer!

AugustineAgain:


Technical definition says you can have both on one helmet. Fool !

Reason why I said you have cognitive learning defect, both HMS and HMD are technically combined to become HMSD or HMS/D and in modern aircraft both are sometimes called one name HMS, that's according to the source definition:

"A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is a device used in some modern aircraft, especially combat aircraft. HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing. Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)".

HMSD and HMS are not the same as a HMD

You are just another product of the wishy-washy grade F South African educational system.

You would succeed in life as a farmer or fisherman, so don't feel too sad dude
.

Applications which allow cuing of weapon [/b]systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) [b]or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)" dus targeting of weapn systems not displaying of flight data

HMSD=HMS just two different names for the same thing thats way in the sentence they use
or meaning it can be called both.

Learn to read! Please!

MikeCZAR:
Yes, around 2017 though.

Development is still ongoing.

Jap!

Henry120:


Bravo.

Patches689, Mikeczar, mzilakazi, dievuilt, centrafuide and the rest of the "soweto clan", have nothing on you.

I'm beginning to doubt whether you're actually south-african.

Yes i did say i think the JF-17 is a good fighter for a cheap price that suit NAFs need , but its not in the same class as the gripen in terms of capability Gripen=Merc JF-17=toyota both good fighters but thats way the gripen is more expensive because you get more features for your money! but hey maby NAF will buy the gripen one day if the need arises.

MikeCZAR:
"If you can't convince them, Confuse them"
But won't use that on you, since I have enough information to clear the lies in your head.

start spilling your 'informations'

MikeCZAR:
what was the kill ratio Heruburubu?

South African Gripens are slightly different from others.

At the red flag 2013 exersice the Swedish Airforce Gripen was the only Aircraft that didnt suffer any casualties.

MikeCZAR:
Besides the Cobra HMD.

They have a lot of SA made systems in them. Modified for our needs.

#SmartBuyer!

By that time our defence review will be fully integrated, mayby then we can upgrade our gripens to e/f standards.
Imagine that! Saaf with 5+gen fighters!

Sorry wanted to quote the post about when the e/f gripens will be in service

jln115:


By that time our defence review will be fully integrated, mayby then we can upgrade our gripens to e/f standards.
Imagine that! Saaf with 5+gen fighters!

Sorry wanted to quote the post about when the e/f gripens will be in service

Of course they'll be upgraded.

Note that they're still undergoing OT&E, and might be upgraded to operationalise them.

EVarn:
start spilling your 'informations'

Just be specific with your questions and I'll answer you.

Provide you with information if needed.

jln115:

At the red flag 2013 exersice the Swedish Airforce Gripen was the only Aircraft that didnt suffer any casualties.

I'd be happy if SAAF can acquire radar guided missiles before 2018, so we can be tested BVR combat using missiles. When Lion Effort comes around again.

Lol we know SAAF will have them around 2016 and 2017 though.

Hopefully the Brazilians will be part of the exercise.

MikeCZAR:
I'd be happy if SAAF can acquire radar guided missiles before 2018, so we can be tested BVR combat using missiles. When Lion Effort comes around again.

Lol we know SAAF will have them around 2016 and 2017 though.

Hopefully the Brazilians will be part of the exercise.

Yes at at Lion Effort 2 squadron preformed extremely well in all aspects except for beyond visual range combat because of the lack of a bvr missile.

Henry120:


The allegation that the creator of the chart, cherry picked specs, is simply baseless, and un-founded.

The compared specs of both Aircrafts using the same characteristics. The chart showed the JF-17 block 1 been similar to the Gripen C/D

On the block II.
"The Block-II JF-17 has improved avionic systems, air-to-air refuelling capability, additional weapons carriage capability and some extra operational capabilities, according to the air force.
It is designed as a lightweight multi-role aircraft, with a claimed top speed of Mach 2.0 and operational ceiling of 55,000 feet."

http://tribune.com.pk/story/803113/pakistan-looks-to-boost-military-export-with-revamped-jf-17/


The JF-17 operates an open architecture, what's to say customers can't instead chose to get improved avionics or AESA and IRST capabilities from a 3rd party?


Now this same argument pops up again, I see no reason why the chinese should leave out an independent chinese J-10 fighter development for a similar fighter with a partner. It is at the discretion of the chinese to chose what ever fighter they want.


Newer Fighters are generally based on older models, as you said, the JF-17 is a "further development", it isn't and would not be a MIG-21 family aircraft. It is the Sino-pak JF-17.


The JAS 39 Gripen is also based on an older SAAB model aircraft. I do not see what the fuss is.

Corruption, Corruption, isn't this our default tone?

Nigeria has to take into account it's threats, and make an informed decision on the best fighter for airforce. Taking into account availability of spares, political environment, military relationship, cost to threat level/ ratio.

All with nothing to do with corruption. The JF-17 is a fantastic aircraft which fully integrates D.S.I in it's design.

If Nigeria eventually pens down the deal, it would most likely go for the Block II, as the block 1 isn't a veritable option.

Baseless and unfounded? How so? I have given you the manufacturers website which lists out the specs and which contradicts the chart made by fans.If you are willing to believe fan charts over manufacturer's data, I have nothing more to say. Patriotism is good, but not at the expense of rationality.

The block 2 does all that yes, but not Mach 2. If anything its speed might even be less due to strengthened airframe(which increases weight) and the same engine. Let the claim by the press become a reality first, against laws of physics and aerodynamics.

One needs more than an open architecture(which btw is not like replacing RAM from their motherboard sockets) to fit an AESA and IRST. Is there enough space for sufficient AESA cooling and IRST in the nose? Please provide verifiable links from manufacturer.

The chinese rejected the fighter although they are falling behind their operation squadron numbers and their j-10 production is not fast enough to arrest the decline. Says a lot.

Yes, jf-17 is a further development of the mig-21 family.

Did nigeria choose the jf-17 after opening a tender and faced off with competing tenders? I dont think so. Single vendor purchases are a cesspool for corruption. The fact that jf-17 made the cut means that the Airforce cannot spend more or they were bribed.

You are more likely a South African.

Your written English and composition of language is very similar to the pattern of we Africans, when a non-African writes so long an English passage, I will tell the difference because I live in an English speaking country where all nationalities/tribes/tongues/races from across the world live and we can tell the difference from how they write and speak English language.

I suspect you are a fake, you are very very likely a South African making false claims of Nationality here.

Now a few answers for you as reply to all the errors and ignorance you displayed in your aircraft analysis.

You call your self an aviation enthusiast and you don't know that most jet fighters of today evolved from older models cheesy

MiG-21 evolved to MiG-23, MiG-23 evolved to MiG 25 with extra one tail added, MiG-25 evolved into MiG-29.

Draken evolved into Viggen, Viggen evolved into Gripen.

Only a fool of a pilot will assume that since MiG-21 evolved into MiG-29, when he fights MiG-29 in air combat, it is same as fighting a MiG-21, that pilot will just make his wife a widow and his children fatherless like a fool cheesy

JF-17 Thunder is NOT a simple jet and NOT close to F-7 Airguard.

JF-17 engine is Russian, it's avionics are a mix of West European and Chinese, it's weapons are a mix of West European and Chinese.

Italian, French, Russian, American, Chinese, British avionics-weapons-technology are mixed into JF-17 Thunder.

If anyone says JF-17 is junk, then the Europeans are junk manufacturers and the Gripen too is Junk cheesy

J-10 Dragon is almost same as JF-17 in capability, the JF-17 was built from the ready made J-10 engineering works, thus the Pakistanis got many things free or cheap from Chinese technology transfer, that is the secret of the cheap price of JF-17 Thunder.

Next, the Chinese will not buy JF-17 because it is same basic engineering works as the J-10, simple common sense.

Why does South Africa not import Israeli MRAPs? You produce yours with about equal capabilities, simple common sense.

I think common sense is one thing you seem to lack, mister MiG-23....your name is an obsolete jet fighter and so is your brain cheesy

Thank you sir.

Good for you augustine. But does it matter if I'm a south african or even a boko haram member when it comes down to verifiable facts? Does it alter reality if I'm from a different country?
On a side note, if you are really bothered by it just ask the admins where i come from.

I assure you, MiG-23 certainly didn't evolve from the MiG-21. Read about its history to know why swing wing MiG-23 was made and its development history. And I certainly am not going to indulge in MiG-25 evolved from the MiG-23...that's insanity at the worst degree or Lack of sufficient knowledge or both.

JF-17 does not have European weapons. Please name an European weapon JF-17 boasts except for its Russian Podded Gun(JF-17 doesn't even have an internal gun).

If JF-17 is almost the same as J-10, why arent the Chinese buying JF-17 to arrest their falling squadron strength because of slow production of J-10 and the J-11?


And Finally, JF-17 does not have HMS/HMDS/HMD. Statements from wikipedia without references to back them up are just a poorly written wiki article which should be cleaned. Maybe i'll do that if I have time. There were some tests which were carried out and the results were unknown but in the end HMS/HMDS was not incorporated on the JF-17's production model. Most likely the results of those tests were a failure for unknown reasons.

JF-17 Block 1 or Block 2 does not have any HMS/HMDS/HMD. Fact!

A porous Security Establishment is all South Africa has! No more ... no less! Evidence below.



===============
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/over-7000-guns-reported-stolen-1.1791331#.VIYNUcanq4Q

MiG23:

Baseless and unfounded? How so? I have given you the manufacturers website which lists out the specs and which contradicts the chart made by fans.If you are willing to believe fan charts over manufacturer's data, I have nothing more to say. Patriotism is good, but not at the expense of rationality.

The block 2 does all that yes, but not Mach 2. If anything its speed might even be less due to strengthened airframe(which increases weight) and the same engine. Let the claim by the press become a reality first, against laws of physics and aerodynamics.

One needs more than an open architecture(which btw is not like replacing RAM from their motherboard sockets) to fit an AESA and IRST. Is there enough space for sufficient AESA cooling and IRST in the nose? Please provide verifiable links from manufacturer.

The chinese rejected the fighter although they are falling behind their operation squadron numbers and their j-10 production is not fast enough to arrest the decline. Says a lot.

Yes, jf-17 is a further development of the mig-21 family.

Did nigeria choose the jf-17 after opening a tender and faced off with competing tenders? I dont think so. Single vendor purchases are a cesspool for corruption. The fact that jf-17 made the cut means that the Airforce cannot spend more or they were bribed.


Good for you augustine. But does it matter if I'm a south african or even a boko haram member when it comes down to verifiable facts? Does it alter reality if I'm from a different country?
On a side note, if you are really bothered by it just ask the admins where i come from.

I assure you, MiG-23 certainly didn't evolve from the MiG-21. Read about its history to know why swing wing MiG-23 was made and its development history. And I certainly am not going to indulge in MiG-25 evolved from the MiG-23...that's insanity at the worst degree or Lack of sufficient knowledge or both.

JF-17 does not have European weapons. Please name an European weapon JF-17 boasts except for its Russian Podded Gun(JF-17 doesn't even have an internal gun).

If JF-17 is almost the same as J-10, why arent the Chinese buying JF-17 to arrest their falling squadron strength because of slow production of J-10 and the J-11?


And Finally, JF-17 does not have HMS/HMDS/HMD. Statements from wikipedia without references to back them up are just a poorly written wiki article which should be cleaned. Maybe i'll do that if I have time. There were some tests which were carried out and the results were unknown but in the end HMS/HMDS was not incorporated on the JF-17's production model. Most likely the results of those tests were a failure for unknown reasons.

JF-17 Block 1 or Block 2 does not have any HMS/HMDS/HMD. Fact!

Well said!!

They insult and talk down on Chinese military-tech and socio-economic achievements ... yet these loud mouth South Africans are tightly held in the jugular by the same Chinese people!

========================================
http://mg.co.za/article/2014-12-04-the-age-of-mandarin-is-upon-us

Soon enough they'll be recruiting foreign trained Soldiers ... then they'll come crying that foreigners are taking their jobs!

====================
http://mg.co.za/article/2014-12-04-attitudes-hold-sa-workers-hostage

NaijaPikinGidi:
Soon enough they'll be recruiting foreign trained Soldiers ... then they'll come crying that foreigners are taking their jobs!

====================
http://mg.co.za/article/2014-12-04-attitudes-hold-sa-workers-hostage

While I was reading those articles I also found this ....http://mg.co.za/article/2014-12-02-racist-assault-caught-on-camera-bikers-attack-petrol-attendant

RAINBOW NATION

Henry120:


Clown.

Kobani has show Fighter Jets are useless in the CAS role.

Since the bombing began, the Turks have let in pershmerga fighters with heavy weaponry into kobani to assist the Kurds. Same Kurdist fighters the turks and U.S consider terrorists.

Since the bombings in kobani began by the USAF, Saudis, Emaratis and Australians, there have been over 500 air strikes on the town. Yet the Air strikes haven't pushed away the terrorist who still hold a significant part of the town. They've only succeed in halting their progress. For a small town like kobani, it is a military failure, halting their advance cannot be classified as a success. Towns have been over-run, and would still be taken back.

For bombardments to have commenced in over 2 months, yet their are terrorist still dug in, it means one of two, the targeting systems of the F/A18 and F-15E's are poor, or the uselessness of Fighter jets have again been brought to the fore in kobani.


So infact, the kobani example proves again, if you want to prosecute CAS, get a CAS asset.

US has only conducted 135 airstrikes in Kobani

They cannot drop bombs as they please as ISIS have responded to US bombing by moving their positions as close as 15m to the Peshmerga

ISIS have lost 4000 fighters trying to take Kobane
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/28/7079695/isis-iraq-syria-defeat

This ammounts to 13% of their total manpower lost
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq/

Not to mention that the town was about to fall when the bombing started, and the bombing stopped the town falling.

You joker.

Henry120:


15 years to train 8 pilots

Pathetic!!!

15 years to train a total of 72 aircrew

14 Gripen pilots
54 Hawk pilots

We have more jet qualified aircrew than Nigeria has jets

Henry, you said you prayed for me. Now I must ask, do you not feel at least guilty by sticking to this lie that we only have 8 pilots?

Why are you so obsessed by this lie?