Anyone watching the MyTV series of gospel channels, particularly those of deliverance ministries and non-deliverance ministries will readily see a conflict...while the KINGDOM LIFE NETWORK folks teach that born again folks do not need 'deliverance', we see DELIVERANCE MINISTRIES like MFM, SCOAN etc have PASTORS, MINISTERS and G.Os coming from far and near for deliverance there...could you share your views concerning this...

for Sons and babies...

na big question ooo

very good question

THEY GO FOR FELLOWSHIP NOT DELIVERANCE AND ALWAYS REJOICE WHEREVER THEY SEE NEWER AND FRESHER DELIVERANCES

I had this same concern as a pentecostal believer, why is that Christians need the most deliverance even after they become 'saved' ??

In Deeperlife they had a special prayer warrior section for deliverance and my question is , is it not Jesus that does the deliverance and besides how come they are on the run from witches and wizards when the most powerful one is on their side ?

Many Churches around the world deceive themselves thinking they are preaching the "Gospel of God and of Christ". The truth is, a Christian is deliverer and need no deliverance after salvation but alas, there's so many "babalawo-preachers" in the pulpit. Go to the Greek and look up the meaning of the word "salvation" and set yourself free from these lies of the devil. Preaching and\or conducting deliverance for those who have received the finished works of Christ by faith is an eternal insult to the blood of Christ.

at the heart of my view concerning this issue is a challenge of the existing theology on salvation and it's requirements ...but i fear many will detest and reject it as heresy though it's based on scriptures...

Goshen360:
Many Churches around the world deceive themselves thinking they are preaching the "Gospel of God and of Christ". The truth is, a Christian is deliverer and need no deliverance after salvation but alas, there's so many "babalawo-preachers" in the pulpit. Go to the Greek and look up the meaning of the word "salvation" and set yourself free from these lies of the devil. Preaching and\or conducting deliverance for those who have received the finished works of Christ by faith is an eternal insult to the blood of Christ.

but bro what would you say or do about the case of people who believe they genuinely gave their lives to Christ and have applied the so called faith principles taught by men of God but are still locked into one problem or the other with deep spiritual roots? What!?

efficiencie:


but bro what would you say or do about the case of people who believe they genuinely gave their lives to Christ and have applied the so called faith principles taught by men of God but are still locked into one problem or the other with deep spiritual roots? What!?

What problems are with deep spiritual roots? Tell us about it please

frosbel:
I had this same concern as a pentecostal believer, why is that Christians need the most deliverance even after they become 'saved' ??

In Deeperlife they had a special prayer warrior section for deliverance and my question is , is it not Jesus that does the deliverance and besides how come they are on the run from witches and wizards when the most powerful one is on their side ?

I went for so many deliverances one particular year like that and it was like the more deliverances I attended the more problems I encountered, I became sooooooo depressed I had to go on antidepressants still not as happy and unassuming as I was pre deliverance era

Deliverance from Satan Jewsus was supposed to have defeated.

bisous:

I went for so many deliverances one particular year like that and it was like the more deliverances I attended the more problems I encountered, I became sooooooo depressed I had to go on antidepressants still not as happy and unassuming as I was pre deliverance era

U not doing something right.... u cant do deliverance and ur life remain the same except you not doing sometjings ryt...

temi4fash:

U not doing something right.... u cant do deliverance and ur life remain the same except you not doing sometjings ryt...

something's like what? Did the 3days fasting no water no food,Been celibate for years now,obeyed all the laid down rules , even stopped fixing my hair and using make up which I didn't believe I could ever stop ,(2015 will change that) so many things I can count...
After the deliverances with all the prayer points against witches and wizards I left more suspicious than I came ,everything/everyone was suspect

My personal conclusion is seeing a genuine IFA priest is worth much more than all the deliverances I attended combined X 10,the only crux is finding one that is genuine

Most of these pastors are their greatest patrons but they'll do everything to brainwash their followers not to do same

The issue of deliverance is one major area of contention amongst many people.

Some set of people believe that once saved you need nothing like deliverance because salvation in one way or the other also means deliverance. Another set of people on the other hand believe that it is very important that you undergo deliverance once you become saved.

While this response is not to criticize one set or the other, it is meant to clear the air on this issue of deliverance through an x-ray of practical life experience.

This is my personal story ----

As a young brilliant boy who is the first son (and child) in the family, I was a trailblazer in my primary school days always receiving prizes at every end of the school year. Fast forward to when I finished my secondary school education at age 16+ with no delay. That same year, I got admission to the polytechnic having written my WASSCE once and Polytechnic Matriculation Examination (PTME) once.

However, I never knew there was a fundamental battle in my father's lineage which was that the first born sons or children don't succeed academically. I was oblivious of this age long battle. I went to the polytechnic but never finished. Why? SOMETHING WAS ALWAYS DISCOURAGING ME AT THE EDGE OF SUCCESS/BREAKTHROUGH SUCH THAT I WOULD JUST ABANDON EVERYTHING AND NEVER MIND ALL THE EFFORTS I HAD PUT IN IN THE PAST.

The following year after I gained admission to the polytechnic, I gained admission to the university in the same state so I was busy shuttling between both ends - a wrong decision that backfired.

Fast forward to the final year when I was supposed to graduate with my colleagues, I knew I had lots of carryover courses but I simply didn't care or bother about them not that I was a dull student - no, not at all. There was something (a demon now I know) always telling me it does not matter and sincerely I would just accept that suggestion without questioning it.

After our final exams, I left school and started my own computer training school where I began to enjoy some bits of success. I remember one of my colleagues coming to me in my office and asking me why I didn't finish my studies (some close friends of mine knew what happened to me). I foolishly and ignorantly replied that I didn't need the certificate as I was now doing well (so to say) with my computer training school.

All these while, I was not yet born again at all.

I continued with my computer training school and was managing things - I was just simply patching my life up. I recorded successes along the way but it didn't last as I was being battered by one problem or the other.

What made me come to consciousness was when my younger brother (whom I am older than by two years) was called up for national service. It was then I began to realize something was wrong with me. I made a life decision to go to any prayer mountain (I had never been to one and have never been to any) and seek God's face until my situation had a solution.

I left my office in the hands of my trusted employee and first and foremost went to see an uncle who is a deliverance minister whom I related my predicament to and my resolve to see for solution by all means. He simply laughed and told me to undergo a 6-day white fasting and prayer programme. I did and then began to notice changes in my life.

The following week, he told me to join the deliverance session which was to be held for 7 days with the first 3 days for dry fasting (marathon).

It wasn't easy but I did partake in the deliverance and I began to experience strange dreams exposing some deep and hidden mysterious things in my generation.

DELIVERANCE IS REAL.

After the deliverance, things began to change for me completely. I began to receive confidence as I continued with consistency in prayers and the Word of God.

I went back to school, wrote lots of letters on academic suspension and resumption of studies which passed through so many processes before being approved. I did 2 (two) extra years in the university and finally graduated with a third class.

I am the first person in my generation (being the first son) to finish higher institution. It was during the course of my deliverance that it was the same generational battle that plagued my dad and stopped him from furthering his education even though he also is very brilliant.

My friends, deliverance is real as I can tell you that it really changed my life.

I graduated from the university after 11 years and 8 months, a month before I was 30 which therefore made me eligible for national youth service. I remember when I had those problems, whenever I see corps members dressed in their kits, I used to tell myself that 'they (my battles or whoever was responsible) didn't want me to put on the corper's kit.

I thank God today. I graduated from the university, went for national youth service and favoured greatly as I experienced the powerful hand of God upon my life.

To you arguing that deliverance is not real, I am not here to argue with you. But if you take a close look at your family (father or mother side), you will discover a recurrent mishap common to members of that family. If you don't undergo genuine and scripture based deliverance, that battle will also capture you - it's just a matter of time.

bisous:


something's like what? Did the 3days fasting no water no food,Been celibate for years now,obeyed all the laid down rules , even stopped fixing my hair and using make up which I didn't believe I could ever stop ,(2015 will change that) so many things I can count...
After the deliverances with all the prayer points against witches and wizards I left more suspicious than I came ,everything/everyone was suspect

My personal conclusion is seeing a genuine IFA priest is worth much more than all the deliverances I attended combined X 10,the only crux is finding one that is genuine

Most of these pastors are their greatest patrons but they'll do everything to brainwash their followers not to do same

My sister, no one can deliver you unless you are willing to be delivered.

If you don't sincerely and genuinely give your heart to Christ, no matter the laws you obey, you will never be truly delivered.

You may experience some momentary freedom but it will never last.

Deliverance is a spiritual issue between THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND KINGDOM OF SATAN.

If you don't genuinely give your life to Jesus, you can never be truly delivered.

One thing you rightly said in your post is that there are charlatans masquerading as deliverance pastors. Many of them need deliverance themselves, many of them are satanic agents setup by the devil to cast out a demonic spirit in someone and replace it with another deadlier and more wicked demon.

You can stop fixing your hair, stop the use of makeup and even remain celibate yet if your heart is not handed over genuinely to Jesus, you can never be free.

THE DEVIL KNOWS IF YOU ARE PURE OR NOT.

Deliverance is uprooting demonic seeds and roots. You cannot have the devil in your heart and want to drive his works out of your life - it is impossible.

I have experienced genuine deliverance and can tell you that even though there are many fake pastors out there, I know one who is a THOROUGHLY GENUINE ONE TO THE CORE.

The presence of fakes does not invalidate the ORIGINAL.

God can intervene in your life my sister.

bisous:


something's like what? Did the 3days fasting no water no food,Been celibate for years now,obeyed all the laid down rules , even stopped fixing my hair and using make up which I didn't believe I could ever stop ,(2015 will change that) so many things I can count...
After the deliverances with all the prayer points against witches and wizards I left more suspicious than I came ,everything/everyone was suspect

My personal conclusion is seeing a genuine IFA priest is worth much more than all the deliverances I attended combined X 10,the only crux is finding one that is genuine

Most of these pastors are their greatest patrons but they'll do everything to brainwash their followers not to do same

I totally understand the feeling... That does not in anyway mean you are not delivered. Did you have faith you were gonna get delivered or u just went there to please the pastor... The Bible says our righteousness are like filty rags before God..

What was ur reason for going for the deliverance?

What were you seeing and experiencing Before and after the delivance?

Ifa priest is not the solution to the problem u need to find out what it is..

Do you know what tonight. I no you have done so many deliverance in the time past.. just tell God to please have mercy on you and show you the source of your problem why it seems your deliverance is not coming forth.. he says he would have mercy on who he will have mercy on.. just beg for God mercy.. Please just give it a try... what ever dream you have wuld tell you what do next..

Refuse to be frustrated...

God be with you..... Your deliverance wuld come forth..

Shalom.

bisous:


something's like what? Did the 3days fasting no water no food,Been celibate for years now,obeyed all the laid down rules , even stopped fixing my hair and using make up which I didn't believe I could ever stop ,(2015 will change that) so many things I can count...
After the deliverances with all the prayer points against witches and wizards I left more suspicious than I came ,everything/everyone was suspect

My personal conclusion is seeing a genuine IFA priest is worth much more than all the deliverances I attended combined X 10,the only crux is finding one that is genuine

Most of these pastors are their greatest patrons but they'll do everything to brainwash their followers not to do same

Ask those that consulted with these IFA folks and ask where they are today...learn by reflection and not experience...

bisous:

I went for so many deliverances one particular year like that and it was like the more deliverances I attended the more problems I encountered, I became sooooooo depressed I had to go on antidepressants still not as happy and unassuming as I was pre deliverance era

madam na here u dey? Some experiences can be so depressing but cheer up. Its not permanent.

efficiencie:


but bro what would you say or do about the case of people who believe they genuinely gave their lives to Christ and have applied the so called faith principles taught by men of God but are still locked into one problem or the other with deep spiritual roots? What!?

Bros,
The big deception in religion, especially Christianity, is this very false notion that Jesus/ God is there to shield or absolve you of your responsibilities and challenges that comes being human and living in community of billions of other humans.
This is the problem with tokumbo religions in Africa. They were sold to us as a super talisman, a panacea for all real and imaginary problems and challenges.
Whether Christian, Muslim or Pagan, believer or atheist, everyone faces the same challenges, anxieties, misfortunes in life.
If you live in a corrupt and disfunctional system, your life must inevitably be sabotaged by the incongruencies of that system, irrespective of your faith or how strong it is.

Nigerian people are lazy and superstitious. Everyone seem to personalize every misfortune, or unrealized expectations as a personal attack from an imaginary enemy, rather seeing the broader picture of a dysfunctional system.

Men of guile ( MOGs,) plug into this to exploit the masses by fighting this imaginary enemy on their behalf.

efficiencie:



Ask those that consulted with these IFA folks and ask where they are today...learn by reflection and not experience...

Same can also be said of your so-called deliverances. In fact, the IFA is much more credible, and perhaps even more effective than the fraud of Evangelical Christianity.

It's a simple matter of whether one is inclined to traditional superstition or religious superstition.

plaetton:

Same can also be said of your so-called deliverances. In fact, the IFA is much more credible, and perhaps even more effective than the fraud of Evangelical Christianity.

It's a simple matter of whether one is inclined to traditional superstition or religious superstition .

the bolded suggests that the inclination of a person would determine the functionality and efficacy of any of these methods of seeking a solution...that's funny! Anyway how would you explain the myriad of persons who have tried these traditional superstitious methods and have seen their failure and have fallen back on the christian-solution?

plaetton:

Whether Christian, Muslim or Pagan, believer or atheist, everyone faces the same challenges, anxieties, misfortunes in life.
If you live in a corrupt and disfunctional system, your life must inevitably be sabotaged by the incongruencies of that system, irrespective of your faith or how strong it is.

Nigerian people are lazy and superstitious. Everyone seem to personalize every misfortune, or unrealized expectations as a personal attack from an imaginary enemy, rather seeing the broader picture of a dysfunctional system.

Men of guile ( MOGs,) plug into this to exploit the masses by fighting this imaginary enemy on their behalf.

Gbam! Well said!

efficiencie:


the bolded suggests that the inclination of a person would determine the functionality and efficacy of any of these methods of seeking a solution...that's funny! Anyway how would you explain the myriad of persons who have tried these traditional superstitious methods and have seen their failure and have fallen back on the christian-solution?

My point is that both systems are for lazy superstitious weaklings who cannot face the vicitudes of life without recourse to a magical bailout.

And secondly, there are no magical solutions, no Christian solutions, no IFA solutions.
Similarly, there are millions of Christians running from one church to another seeking same solutions that they did not get in their former churches.
We have become a nation of Church addicts, juju addicts, and swinging back and forth from one church to one juju house.

plaetton:

My point is that both systems are for lazy superstitious weaklings who cannot face the vicitudes of life without recourse to a magical bailout.

And secondly, there are no magical solutions, no Christian solutions, no IFA solutions.
Similarly, there are millions of Christians running from one church to another seeking same solutions that they did not get in their former churches.
We have become a nation of Church addicts, juju addicts, and swinging back and forth from one church to one juju house.

The vicissitudes of life is the product of factors that are outside the control of humans' planning abilities and this brings man to the metaphysical and spiritual aspects of life...What ideas would you give a young lady who is trying to get some education and become independent but fails due to uncontrollable circumstances such as the death of a guardian or parents, the abuse and subjugation of relatives and the neglect of the society and when she decides to turn to marriage as a means of harnessing the synergistic benefits of having a partner and she fails to get one despite faking of 'a larger than life' good behaviour, making unsavory sacrifices and going to extreme lengths? What advice would you give her? Would you recommend she sees a psychologist to explain the woes of her life and how she can get out of it? Or would you recommend she attends motivational programs (while she has bills to pay)?

This is why many seek spiritual solutions sir.

efficiencie:


The vicissitudes of life is the product of factors that are outside the control of humans' planning abilities and this brings man to the metaphysical and spiritual aspects of life...What ideas would you give a young lady who is trying to get some education and become independent but fails due to uncontrollable circumstances such as the death of a guardian or parents, the abuse and subjugation of relatives and the neglect of the society and when she decides to turn to marriage as a means of harnessing the synergistic benefits of having a partner and she fails to get one despite faking of 'a larger than life' good behaviour, making unsavory sacrifices and going to extreme lengths? What advice would you give her? Would you recommend she sees a psychologist to explain the woes of her life and how she can get out of it? Or would you recommend she attends motivational programs (while she has bills to pay)?

This is why many seek spiritual solutions sir.

Everyone, at one time or another, fall under circumstances beyond the person's control. That is life. There is no perfect life.
I learnt a long time ago that all the challenges and vicissitudes of life ARE THERE FOR OUR EDIFICATION AND ULTIMATE PERFECTION.

Seeking a magical bailout is a cowardly copout, a surrender to primitive fear.
No one should deny themselves the opportunity to learn and grow through the vicissitudes of life.

If there were spiritual solutions to normal life problems, would have a need for hospitals?

These cravings for spiritual bailouts are impediments to rationally identifying structural defects and dislocations in our society and cultures.

plaetton:

Everyone, at one time or another, fall under circumstances beyond the person's control. That is life. There is no perfect life.
I learnt a long time ago that all the challenges and vicissitudes of life ARE THERE FOR OUR EDIFICATION AND ULTIMATE PERFECTION.

Seeking a magical bailout is a cowardly copout, a surrender to primitive fear.
No one should deny themselves the opportunity to learn and grow through the vicissitudes of life.

If there were spiritual solutions to normal life problems, would have a need for hospitals?

These cravings for spiritual bailouts are impediments to rationally identifying structural defects and dislocations in our society and cultures.

My brother let's be real for once. Even the U.S in response to a crisis sought a bailout at one point instead of putting place structural reforms to solve the adverse effect of market failures...Brother every one has its story and every one attests that there were times logic and reason made no sense at all. The events of this life has made people psychopaths, turned many miscreants, made many victims of the vicious, scarred many for life and left them with a reminder of the very words of Job:

Job 14:1
Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.

My brother the events of this life has sent many looking for God...the Yorubas, such wise people they are, have a proverb that says:

eni ija o ba, lo pe ra e l'okunrin meaning he who is yet to fight in war will readily call himself a man

Brave people plunge into the jungle of uncertainty in search alternative solutions when logic and reason fails but cowards are those who repeatedly fall into the illusion of trying to escape the fact that logic and reason fails and fails very often.

They are cowards because they are scared of the outcomes of dabbling into the world of the unseen.

Fredrick Nietsche an atheist was noted to have said: whatever does not kill you makes you stronger

This life is a WAR and those who live to see the next day are those PRIVILEGED TO LEARN FROM LIFE ...Brother YOU DON'T LEARN IN A WAR you fight and those who survive are those fully equipped against FORCES THAT GOVERN THIS WORLD

efficiencie:




My brother let's be real for once. Even the U.S in response to a crisis sought a bailout at one point instead of putting place structural reforms to solve the adverse effect of market failures...Brother every one has its story and every one attests that there were times logic and reason made no sense at all. The events of this life has made people psychopaths, turned many miscreants, made many victims of the vicious, scarred many for life and left them with a reminder of the very words of Job:

Job 14:1
Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.

My brother the events of this life has sent many looking for God...the Yorubas, such wise people they are, have a proverb that says:

eni ija o ba, lo pe ra e l'okunrin meaning he who is yet to fight in war will readily call himself a man

Brave people plunge into the jungle of uncertainty in search alternative solutions when logic and reason fails but cowards are those who repeatedly fall into the illusion of trying to escape the fact that logic and reason fails and fails very often.

They are cowards because they are scared of the outcomes of dabbling into the world of the unseen.

Fredrick Nietsche an atheist was noted to have said: whatever does not kill you makes you stronger

This life is a WAR and those who live to see the next day are those PRIVILEGED TO LEARN FROM LIFE ...Brother YOU DON'T LEARN IN A WAR you fight and those who survive are those fully equipped against FORCES THAT GOVERN THIS WORLD

There is hardly anything to disagree with here.
There is no secrete doctrine that insulates or inoculates one from from the challenges or uncertainties of life that is better than reason, rationality, knowledge and experience.

So, supporting your remarks, I say one should stay and fight on with all the faculties of your thoughts and imagination, not cutting and running in search of spiritual shortcuts and bail outs.

The spiritual realms have their own rigid rules, their own fine prints , cliff that most desperate mortals ignorantly fall into and drown.

Be careful of what you ask for.
There is no room for a complainer in a perfectly ordered universe.

plaetton:


There is hardly anything to disagree with here.
There is no secrete doctrine that insulates or inoculates one from from the challenges or uncertainties of life that is better than reason, rationality, knowledge and experience.

So, supporting your remarks, I say one should stay and fight on with all the faculties of your thoughts and imagination, not cutting and running in search of spiritual shortcuts and bail outs.

The spiritual realms have their own rigid rules, their own fine prints , cliff that most desperate mortals ignorantly fall into and drown.

Be careful of what you ask for.
There is no room for a complainer in a perfectly ordered universe .

On the first bolded comment, your dogged defense of reason and logic as the finality of reality is almost, if not, religious and i won't be in any danger to claim that rationality is your God and your devotion to rationality defies the statistical tradition that gives place for reason and randomness (which often defies reason).

Well as a well rounded thinker, i would not, like you, be in a haste to brand those who seek metaphysical and spiritual routes to bliss as cowards and that's because they are entitled to their own visualisation of reality even as Immanuel Kant, Baruch Spinoza and the likes are entitled to theirs!

On the second bolded comment, i want to ask: how would a sceptic like you that upholds reason and reason alone know of the so called rigid rules, fine prints and cliffs ? Well from that comment, i can safely deduce that you stumbled into the supernatural and got scathed badly. You must have tried the rigid rules and faltered, examined the fine prints and got bewildered and got to cliffs of decision and suffered a terrible fate...Well bro, its you on the run. You're obviously scared, like many are, of the supernatural and reason gave you a safe haven to hide your many fears...Well who then is the coward?

On the last bolded comment, you claim the universe is ordered and indeed i agree but would reason permit you to accept that the universe in its delicate order was the result of an accident at some point in time? Well some thinkers, astro-scientists, who worship reason like you actually have the sheer temerity to assert and teach generations that the ordered universe was created by an accident!

One of the laws of thermodynamics states that matter cannot be created or destroyed but yet scientists, who glorify their precious laws, refuse blatantly to tell the world the prior state of matter that transited into the singularity that began the big bang. Even reason, as a God, has failed repeatedly in science but yet thinkers like you still want many to seek reason as one would seek God...


I am a thinker. I believe in the power of reason but i also believe that reason is nested in the spirit...meaning there are events that make a mockery reason but bow at the feet of the spirit!

The christians that receives deliverance are they actually born again? Because a born again christian is one who is born of the water and the holy spirit , And such receives the holy spirit dwelling in them and as you know light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place , So if you think you're possesed go check your christian root remember on the last day not all that say lord lord will enter heaven

elantraceey:
The christian that receives deliverance are they actually born again? Because a born again christian is one who is born of the water and the holy spirit , And such receives the holy spirit dwelling in themand as you know light and darkness cannot dwell in the same place , So if you think you're possed go check your christian root remember on the last day not all that say lord lord will enter heaven

...but Paul was a Christian (or would you dispute that) yet he was buffetted by a messenger of satan and not only was he tormented, he went to the Lord Jesus in prayer three times concerning this...why did he pray concerning this? what was he asking Jesus for? Was it not for deliverance? Divide the scripture wholly and not parochially...


2Corinthians 12:7-8

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

efficiencie:


On the first bolded comment, your dogged defense of reason and logic as the finality of reality is almost, if not, religious and i won't be in any danger to claim that rationality is your God and your devotion to rationality defies the statistical tradition that gives place for reason and randomness (which often defies reason).

Well as a well rounded thinker, i would not, like you, be in a haste to brand those who seek metaphysical and spiritual routes to bliss as cowards and that's because they are entitled to their own visualisation of reality even as Immanuel Kant, Baruch Spinoza and the likes are entitled to theirs!

On the second bolded comment, i want to ask: how would a sceptic like you that upholds reason and reason alone know of the so called [b] rigid rules, fine prints and cliffs ? Well from that comment, i can safely deduce that you stumbled into the supernatural and got scathed badly. You must have tried the rigid rules and faltered, examined the fine prints and got bewildered and got to cliffs of decision and suffered a terrible fate...Well bro, its you on the run. You're obviously scared, like many are, of the supernatural and reason gave you a safe haven to hide your many fears...Well who then is the coward?[/b]

On the last bolded comment, you claim the universe is ordered and indeed i agree but would reason permit you to accept that the universe in its delicate order was the result of an accident at some point in time? Well some thinkers, astro-scientists, who worship reason like you actually have the sheer temerity to assert and teach generations that the ordered universe was created by an accident!

One of the laws of thermodynamics states that matter cannot be created or destroyed but yet scientists, who glorify their precious laws, refuse blatantly to tell the world the prior state of matter that transited into the singularity that began the big bang. Even reason, as a God, has failed repeatedly in science but yet thinkers like you still want many to seek reason as one would seek God...


I am a thinker. I believe in the power of reason but i also believe that reason is nested in the spirit...meaning there are events that make a mockery reason but bow at the feet of the spirit!

On the bolded, I have not given you any facts upon which to build make such leaps of direct accusations against me. You have made numerous deductions from a false assumption.

We don't have to be burned by fire to know that it is hot.
Again, from simple rational analysis, there must exist other realities beyond our 3 dimensional senses. I understand the universe in terms of Energy, vibrations and frequencies. As such, our reality must be just one station on an infinite frequency band.

Common sense would inform me that the rules of such other realities would be different, and mostly incompatible with ours.
Therefore, I have always considered it a grand folly for a person in this 3 dimensional reality to attempt , without due deligence and preparation, to immerse him/her self into the business of other realities. Our entire consciousness and neural networks are not constructed or evolved to accomodate the incongruencies that ensues from such encounters. In fact, our brains actually have safety mechanisms to prevent us from directly interfacing with other dimensional realities.

Most, if not all of us, through the dream state , do have such encounters, but our brains buffer the experience by causing amnesia and burying it in the inaccessible areas of our memories.
That is why most of our dreams are in fragmented pieces.

And how do I know all this? Well I wish I could tell you, but I assure you it had nothing with trying it and being burned.

My point is that only lazy fools would leave the vast experience that this reality offers to seek sucour and bailout from another reality.
It is analogous to borrowing money from the future to finance your foolish drug habits in the present. This is the sad part that most pathetic morons do not ever know ,because they are to desperate , needy and illiterate to read the fine print.
Cavaet Emptor!

There is no room for a complainer in an orderly universe.

efficiencie:


...but Paul was a Christian (or would you dispute that) yet he was buffetted by a messenger of satan and not only was he tormented, he went to the Lord Jesus in prayer three times concerning this...why did he pray concerning this? what was he asking Jesus for? Was it not for deliverance? Divide the scripture wholly and not parochially...


2Corinthians 12:7-8


And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

There's a diffence between being possesed and being oppressed , paul was oppressed by the devil but it was written no where that it possesed him.