ayoku777: Personally I think its unfortunate that we are debating IF Jesus Christ is GOD, when EVEN the Church is GOD. And yes, you read me right. I believe that the root of the problem is because we don't understand the meaning of the word GOD or ELOHIM. God or Elohim is not a person, it is a title and a nature, under the Law, the old covenant, it was a title owned by and/or conferred by the LORD (YHWH or Yahovah) on people he sent with His word or He gave the right of judgment, then under the new covenant it became a nature imputed to those born of His WORD.

In Exodus 7v1, the Lord said to Moses 'See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh'. 'God' there is the hebrew 'elohim' and the LORD conferred it on Moses after He sent him with His word. Then Exodus 21v5-6 'And if the servant shall say I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go out free. Then his master shall bring him unto the judges... The word 'judges' is also the hebrew 'elohim'. And it was conferred on people given the right of judgment by God, eg Priests and Elders in Israel. Also check Exodus 22v8-9.

Then Psalm 82v1-2 'God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, He judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly...'. 'God and gods' is the same 'elohim' in that verse. And then the very popular verse 6, 'I have said Ye are gods'. Same 'elohim' there. Some christians might say it is small letter 'g' god in all these verses. But let me blow your mind wider. Small or big letter 'g' is purely english, in hebrew, 'elohim' is 'elohim', no small or big letter. So when the scriptures call people elohim, it uses the same letter it uses when it calls 'elohim' in other verses, even for big letter 'G' GOD. All these shows the way elohim was used under the law as a title conferred; before it now became a nature imputed under grace, we will go there shortly. Then this is a verse that best shows this difference between YHWH as a person and elohim as a title, 1Sam 2v25 'If one man sin against another, the judge (Elohim) shall judge him. But if a man sin against the LORD (Yahovah), who shall intreat for him'. This shows the difference between the person of the Father and the title elohim, which is used by the LORD and also conferred by Him.

Then when Jesus came He said 'I and My Father are one' John 10v30. I've heard some christians say he was talking about oneness in terms of purpose and mission. Emphatically NO! He was talking to jews who knew the scriptures in Deut 6v4 'Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD (YHWH)'. So when Jesus said I and my Father are ONE, he meant I and my Father are JEHOVAH (The Self-Existent One). So Jesus didn't even call himself elohim, He called himself YHWH. Calling himself elohim would have even been bearable to the jews 'coz there were people who God conferred the title on under the law, but to the Jews calling yourself YHWH was going too far. That was why the Jews wanted to stone him. So God is even a title too little for Jesus, that's a title for the Church (those born of the Word), Jesus is Jehovah, just like the Father.

Moving on, the Jews reply Jesus in John 10v33 For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God'. Jesus replied them and said in v34-35 Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are Gods? If He called them Gods unto whom the word of God came, and the scriptures cannot be broken. In other words, if those sent with the word of God are called Gods, how much more those BORN OF THE WORD (the church)? And how much much much more THE WORD HIMSELF (Jesus). So hear this, The Father, The Word, The Church (through the Spirit) are Elohim. But only the Father and the Word are Jehovah or YHWH (Self-Existent) as stated by Christ in John 5v26 For as the Father hath life in himself (Self-existent), so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (self-existent).

Some might argue that if Jesus is God, how come he still prays to the father. Simple! If God is a title then it will definitly be in heirachy. The authority and Godhood of the one who begat (Father) will definitely be above that of the one begotten (Jesus). And the authority of the first begotten will also be above the others begotten (Church). Even though all of them are Elohim. Its like a pride, in a pride all the males are lions, but there are daddy lion, Sons lion and baby lion. Maybe even grandpa lion, they are all lions but authority-wise they differ. Christ is elohim, and even, Jehovah like the Father but he's still subject to the Father, just like the church is elohim (by being born of the word) but also subject to Christ. That's why Jesus said in John 14v28 'For my Father is greater than I'. The Father prays to no one, Jesus prays to the Father, and the Church, through the Spirit, prays to the Father in the name of Jesus. All elohim, but different authority levels.

So let's rest this debate of whether Jesus is elohim or not. Jesus is more than elohim, he is Jehovah, like the Father. What we should be debating is whether the church is elohim or not. And we are by the way, so let's even rest that as well.

Why is it that every now and then you people would come up with new lies in oder to prove yet another BIG LIE. Jesus can never be god not even God! Now u people still want to make him Jehova again, and make churches God. very soon u wul start calling urself God. ur lie wul start and end wit u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When your spirit finish talking to you, we will then know what you actually believe in.

Mr ayoku777, let me ask u one question. Where is Jesus now.
Thanks

davonny: Mr ayoku777, let me ask u one question. Where is Jesus now.
Thanks

In heaven, at the right hand of the Father.

I only have few things to say here, what has been hid in God for so long but through the help of the Holyspirit it has been revealed.

Majority of Christians don't even know who Jesus really is.

In Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds(Universe) were framed by the word of God,..."

@bold-this phrase appear "by the word of God"

In Ephe 3:9 "...which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

@bold-this phrase appear "who created all things by Jesus Christ"

From these two verses no arguement that Jesus was the word of God that created everything.

Now John couldn't make the mistake when he wrote John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now who is Jesus Christ?
When Angel visit Mary, the Angel told Mary that Holyspirit(God) will visit her, (Note: people like Sarah, Annal, Elizabeth was given a message by Angel that they will conciev but through sperma-their husband) but incase of Mary is not like that God Himself will visit her. If God visit Mary what will God do? He will only speak a word because in Heb 11:3 ".....so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear-by the Word of God" when God speaks new thing will happen.

Incase of Jesus God spake and thing we seen(Jesus) was not made from thing will know(sperma) no wonder John said John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh,...."

Jesus is the word of God(that is, the word that is coming out from God) that's why Jesus said "I and my father are one" Nobody can seperate your word from you and your word is also you. John 1:1.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God simply because the WORD is the first thing that was first created in the creations account "...And God said (word came out)..." so Jesus will continue to remain only begotten Son as God will continue to speak.

Why Jesus said "My Father is greater than I" the simple answer is if God didn't speak, word will not come out...but their one.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
@bold-What is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was? God exalted His own WORD(Jesus) through creations.

John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."
After Jesus made this statement His desciples then know that "...He came forth from God-John 16:29"
Jesus was part of God himself which can not be seperated 'The WORD of GOD'.

Severally in account books of Jesus, He said before His death that "I go to my Father..." inwhich no prophet has ever claimed, but why? Just because He's the WORD of God and He's retuning back to God.

Finally, God is non-contingence being He can do as He likes.....He change His own word to human's nature....and created the universe by His word(Jesus Christ).

We need the Help of the Holyghost to understand Bible because "This is the mystery which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and prophets by [Holy] spirit; Ephe 3:5 this mystery also has been hid in God from the beginning of the world Ephe 3:9. No wonder why, people of ages was so confuse about God...David said "the Lord said to my Lord..."Lol.

Shalom!

Emusan: I only have few things to say here, what has been hid in God for so long but through the help of the Holyspirit it has been revealed.

Majority of Christians don't even know who Jesus really is.

In Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds(Universe) were framed by the word of God,..."

@bold-this phrase appear "by the word of God"

In Ephe 3:9 "...which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

@bold-this phrase appear "who created all things by Jesus Christ"

From these two verses no arguement that Jesus was the word of God that created everything.

Now John couldn't make the mistake when he wrote John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now who is Jesus Christ?
When Angel visit Mary, the Angel told Mary that Holyspirit(God) will visit her, (Note: people like Sarah, Annal, Elizabeth was given a message by Angel that they will conciev but through sperma-their husband) but incase of Mary is not like that God Himself will visit her. If God visit Mary what will God do? He will only speak a word because in Heb 11:3 ".....so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear-by the Word of God" when God speaks new thing will happen.

Incase of Jesus God spake and thing we seen(Jesus) was not made from thing will know(sperma) no wonder John said John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh,...."

Jesus is the word of God(that is, the word that is coming out from God) that's why Jesus said "I and my father are one" Nobody can seperate your word from you and your word is also you. John 1:1.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God simply because the WORD is the first thing that was first created in the creations account "...And God said (word came out)..." so Jesus will continue to remain only begotten Son as God will continue to speak.

Why Jesus said "My Father is greater than I" the simple answer is if God didn't speak, word will not come out...but their one.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
@bold-What is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was? God exalted His own WORD(Jesus) through creations.

John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."
After Jesus made this statement His desciples then know that "...He came forth from God-John 16:29"
Jesus was part of God himself which can not be seperated 'The WORD of GOD'.

Severally in account books of Jesus, He said before His death that "I go to my Father..." inwhich no prophet has ever claimed, but why? Just because He's the WORD of God and He's retuning back to God.

Finally, God is non-contingence being He can do as He likes.....He change His own word to human's nature....and created the universe by His word(Jesus Christ).

We need the Help of the Holyghost to understand Bible because "This is the mystery which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and prophets by [Holy] spirit; Ephe 3:5 this mystery also has been hid in God from the beginning of the world Ephe 3:9. No wonder why, people of ages was so confuse about God...David said "the Lord said to my Lord..."Lol.

Shalom!

Beautifully spoken and well presented. I am blessed,This was the mystery Paul was emphasizing on (1 Timothy 3:16). All these things are beyond carnal comprehension. God dwelling in the flesh! How can anyone understand such a pronouncement unless quickened by the power of the Spirit? The Lord gives his truths line upon line and precept upon precept to those who believe and obey.

I will also like us to ponder on this scripture.

"I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your loving kindness and Your truth. For You have magnified Your Word above all Your name" [Psalms 138:2].

This is in reference to Christ Himself.God showed Himself to be more than what David had already thought Him to be, it means that God has magnified His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, above every other manifestation of Himself.

Bidam: Beautifully spoken and well presented. I am blessed,This was the mystery Paul was emphasizing on (1 Timothy 3:16). All these things are beyond carnal comprehension. God dwelling in the flesh! How can anyone understand such a pronouncement unless quickened by the power of the Spirit? The Lord gives his truths line upon line and precept upon precept to those who believe and obey.

I will also like us to ponder on this scripture.

"I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your loving kindness and Your truth. For You have magnified Your Word above all Your name" [Psalms 138:2].

This is in reference to Christ Himself.God showed Himself to be more than what David had already thought Him to be, it means that God has magnified His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, above every other manifestation of Himself.

True and well said, but let's just try not to reduce Jesus to the Rhema (spoken Word) of God. Jesus is the Logos of God. Rhema means utterance or spoken word, something you say or express by word of mouth; while Logos means communication, it is more encompassing than rhema, it is the expression of your ways and your thoughts in everyway, more like your mirror image, the person that conveys the totality of your personality. Your son can be your Logos if he is like you to precise detail, that doesn't make him your rhema, someone you spoke forth.

Jesus is not the Rhema (spoken word) of God, He is the Logos of God. The communication of his character, the express (or mirror) image of his person. When Jesus (Logos) was on earth, the Father was still speaking from heaven (rhema).

The greek language has more synonyms than english and we can easily make the mistake of interpreting different greek words to mean same things in the english. Logos was translated Word and we confuse it to mean spoken word but it is communication. Jesus is not the spoken word of God, he is not someone that proceeds out of the Father's mouth. He is the communication of the character of God, his mirror image.

Jesus is now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, but the Father is still speaking words. Coz Logos is different from rhema. The spoken word of the Father is Rhema, not Jesus (Logos)

Bidam: I will also like us to ponder on this scripture.

"I will worship toward Your holy temple, and praise Your name for Your loving kindness and Your truth. For You have magnified Your Word above all Your name" [Psalms 138:2].

This is in reference to Christ Himself.God showed Himself to be more than what David had already thought Him to be, it means that God has magnified His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, above every other manifestation of Himself.

Powerful words right here, truly worth pondering. I've been meditating on it. It means of all the names under which, and people through whom, God has revealed himself, the Word (Jesus) is the greatest revelation of the Father. This scripture answers some questions i've been asking. Unrelated to this topic though. Thanks.

That was a very powerful insight... Thank you

DrummaBoy:
Sometimes I think we are saying the same thing in these trinity debates.

But if we disagree, please can either side show me how a wrong concetptualization of the person God and Jesus actually affects our devotion as believers.

How can we truly worship what we do not know (not sure who or what he is or how many he is) in spirit and in TRUTH.

Now you see, that it is important eh, When the Samaritan woman asked Jesus about the right PLACE (not identity) to worship God, what was his reply.

ayoku777:


True and well said, but let's just try not to reduce Jesus to the Rhema (spoken Word) of God. Jesus is the Logos of God. Rhema means utterance or spoken word, something you say or express by word of mouth; while Logos means communication, it is more encompassing than rhema, it is the expression of your ways and your thoughts in everyway, more like your mirror image, the person that conveys the totality of your personality. Your son can be your Logos if he is like you to precise detail, that doesn't make him your rhema, someone you spoke forth.

Jesus is not the Rhema (spoken word) of God, He is the Logos of God. The communication of his character, the express (or mirror) image of his person. When Jesus (Logos) was on earth, the Father was still speaking from heaven (rhema).

The greek language has more synonyms than english and we can easily make the mistake of interpreting different greek words to mean same things in the english. Logos was translated Word and we confuse it to mean spoken word but it is communication. Jesus is not the spoken word of God, he is not someone that proceeds out of the Father's mouth. He is the communication of the character of God, his mirror image.

Jesus is now seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, but the Father is still speaking words. Coz Logos is different from rhema. The spoken word of the Father is Rhema, not Jesus (Logos)

Hehehe, did you see how they twist Psalms 138:2 to suit their thinking/beliefs. Applying everywhere 'word' is in the bible to mean Jesus at their convenience.

The context points to spoken word just as you said.

Others should please explain, When John the baptist, Peter , James and John heard a vioce from Heaven say "This is my beloved son"- Did the actual words spoken mean 'THE WORD'-Jesus. NB: 'The word' is a title.


Its pitiful that many never read the bible to see that the disciples believe Jesus is not Jehovah and he is a subject of Jehovah.

RikoduoSennin:


Hehehe, did you see how they twist Psalms 138:2 to suit their thinking/beliefs. Applying everywhere 'word' is in the bible to mean Jesus at their convenience.

The context points to spoken word just as you said.

Others should please explain, When John the baptist, Peter , James and John heard a vioce from Heaven say "This is my beloved son"- Did the actual words spoken mean 'THE WORD'-Jesus. NB: 'The word' is a title.


Its pitiful that many never read the bible to see that the disciples believe Jesus is not Jehovah and he is a subject of Jehovah.

Thank You !! I was about to ask them the same question.

QUESTION :

When james, peter and ezpecially John the baptist hear a voice saying " this is my beloved son" Matt 3:19 , IS THE WORD SPOKEN ACTUALLY JESUS CHRIST ??

RikoduoSennin:

The context points to spoken word just as you said.

He rightly said but both of you have different understanding about The Word

Others should please explain, When John the baptist, Peter , James and John heard a vioce from Heaven say "This is my beloved son"- Did the actual words spoken mean 'THE WORD'-Jesus. NB: 'The word' is a title.

You problem is pathetic, did the Trinitarian say since Jesus is the word of God, then the Father can't speak again or since the Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father, the Father lying dead without spirit in Him anytime the Holyspirit is at work?

Its pitiful that many never read the bible to see that the disciples believe Jesus is not Jehovah and he is a subject of Jehovah.

It's pitiful that you can't see that the disciple actually believe Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh because you're reading a corrupted scripture.

Emusan:






You problem is pathetic, did the Trinitarian say since Jesus is the word of God, then the Father can't speak again or since the Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father, the Father lying dead without spirit in Him anytime the Holyspirit is at work?

How did they (Trinitarians) interpreted Psalms 138:2 by applying "word" in that verse to mean "Jesus".

Emusan:

It's pitiful that you can't see that the disciple actually believe Jesus is Jehovah in Flesh because you're reading a corrupted scripture.

Who told you I am reading a corrupted scripture? I read and use different translations of the bible- each have its own strong side.

Where is your proof that Jesus disciples believe he his Jehovah in the flesh because I have my proof that the reverse is the case: eg.

PAUL
Ephesians 1:3, 17 "Blessed be THE GOD and Father of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST...... That THE GOD of OUR LORD Jesus Christ....."

PETER
1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

There are also Moreeeeeeeee. But then,

Jesus said he has a God himself, How can Jesus be the flesh manifestation of his own God.

You don't believe Jesus words in John 20:17, Revelation 3:2,12,14.

Thanks ayoku. Practicing godliness. Wondering where only by faith the just shall live, when men lean heavily on logical. Scriptures not too clear, shouldnt be used to discard revealed word, but prayerfully ask God for mercy and grace to help in time of need to know that Jesus is YHWH. God bless.

Again, the reason deep down there is some resistance in accepting that Jesus is YHWH, is that Jesus was and still a Man at the right hand of the Father and accepting Him as YHWH, will be too much to handle. Scriptures like this will throw them off balance

"Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17).

secondly, this revelation defines the verse that speaks of what the NEW CREATURE is... Something out of the ordinary else its ordinary! Thirdly, this makes speaking in tongues a mystery that only YHWH understands, becos its a communication beyond the ordinary realm of men, hence its gibberish.
Above all, it shows that for 'men' to be declared NEW CREATURE, it takes the riches of His grace to bring such a feat to reality. God bless.

RikoduoSennin:

How did they (Trinitarians) interprete Psalms 138:2 by applying "word" in that verse to mean "Jesus".

I don't think Trinitarians use this verse because not all version rendered it as WORD.

Who told you I am reading a corrupted scripture? I read and use different translations of the bible- each have its own strong side.

If this is true, did you ever come across this "...and the WORD was God" John 1:1

Where is your proof that Jesus disciples believe he his Jehovah in the flesh because I have my proof that the reverse is the case: eg.
PAUL
Ephesians 1:3, 17 "Blessed be THE GOD and Father of OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST...... That THE GOD of OUR LORD Jesus Christ....."

PAUL Colossian 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven,..." 17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

I know your objection to this will be, Jesus is the first creation but if that is true verse 16 says For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven,..." Which come first Jesus or heaven?

PETER
1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

PETER
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,..."

The blessed Apostle said it was THE SPIRIT of Jesus Christ that prophecies Christ suffering and through out the Old Testament about the suffering and the death of the Messiah it was Holy spirit or God that did it,

They are also Moreeeeeeeee. But then,
Jesus said he has a God himself, How can Jesus be the flesh manifestation of his own God.
You don't believe Jesus words in John 20:17, Revelation 3:2,12,14.

They are just so many, but then.
So you don't believe The Father when He called the Son God...in Hebrew 1:8, how can The Father who is God called the Son God?

What I see most Non-Trinitarian misunderstand about Trinity is inability to separate Jesus' humanity from His Divinity.

Emusan:


I don't think Trinitarians use this verse because not all version rendered it as WORD.

Read previous post in this thread and see it being used.

Emusan:

If this is true, did you ever come across this "...and the WORD was God" John 1:1

Did you also see, " And the Word was with God". What is unique about "The word" being called God, he is not the only being called that with the same capital 'G', do you know that? Lesser being were also called God too. It means nothing since none of these being (Jesus included) is not the TRUE ALMIGHTY.

Emusan:

PAUL Colossian 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven,..." 17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

I know your objection to this will be, Jesus is the first creation but if that is true verse 16 says For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven,..." Which come first Jesus or heaven?

Jesus came before THE THINGS IN HEAVEN, hence other TRANSLATIONS use "Through him". Please ask yourself why is that? (NB: He did NOT create Heaven itself but things in Heaven as that scripture said)

Emusan:

PETER
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ,..."

The blessed Apostle said it was THE SPIRIT of Jesus Christ that prophecies Christ suffering and through out the Old Testament about the suffering and the death of the Messiah it was Holy spirit or God that did it,

I don't get you, are you Saying Jesus is the same as the Holy Spirit? If Jesus and the Father were really one, they would have ONE AND THE SAME WILL, but that is not the case, is it?

I have never read where it is written that God sent HIMSELF!

Are you denying Jesus having a God he answers to?

Emusan:

They are just so many, but then.
So you don't believe The Father when He called the Son God...in Hebrew 1:8, how can The Father who is God called the Son God?

What I see most Non-Trinitarian misunderstand about Trinity is inability to separate Jesus' humanity from His Divinity.

It was because of people like you that was why The Father in verse 9 made it Clear that he his A God who is Jesus's personal God. Read: " Therefore God (Almighty), EVEN THY/YOUR GOD". Did you notice the possessive term "YOUR GOD". Did you bother to ask yourself what does it mean.

RikoduoSennin:

Read previous post in this thread and see it being used.

I've cleared myself here.

Did you also see, " And the Word was with God". What is unique about "The word" being called God, he is not the only being called that with the same capital 'G', do you know that? Lesser being were also called God too. It means nothing since none of these being (Jesus included) is not the TRUE ALMIGHTY.

I know this is what you will resort to but any open minded person reading John 1 would see that the writer has something more than that in mind before he called the WORD God, as he continue in verse 3 without Him (Jesus) NOTHING WAS MADE, that has been made you believe Jesus was created which means Jesus WAS MADE, now this verse said NOTHING WAS MADE without Jesus, can we then say it's Jesus who created Himself?

Jesus came before THE THINGS IN HEAVEN, hence other TRANSLATIONS use "Through him". Please ask yourself why is that? (NB: He did create Heaven itself but things in Heaven as that scripture said)

I know either through/by
Good, you agree that Jesus did create heaven itself which means God created Jesus before Jesus now created heaven, now tell me where was Jesus dwelling after He was created (according to you) since every living creations need a place to dwell? remember only God dwells in ETERNITY.

I don't get you, are you Saying Jesus is the same as the Holy Spirit? If Jesus and the Father were really one, they would have ONE AND THE SAME WILL, but that is not the case, is it?

See you, am I the one saying it or what is in the scripture? Do you know why NWT has to remove the word "of Christ"?
Please what do you understand from that scripture?

I have never read where it is written that God sent HIMSELF!

When you failed to read your Bible, "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD(Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Yahweh)." Who fulfilled this prophecy? John the Baptist & Jesus! Did God send Himself?

Are you denying Jesus having a God he answers to?

No I didn't! Are you denying Jesus as God? when Genesis told us that it is Yahweh who breath His Spirit of life into Adam and the NT said it is Jesus who created everything including Adam?

It was because of people like you that was why The Father in verse 9 made it Clear that he his A God who is Jesus's personal God. Read: " Therefore God (Almighty), EVEN THY/YOUR GOD". Did you notice the possessive term "YOUR GOD". Did you bother to ask yourself what does it mean.

I do! but everyone can see that you didn't address my question why will the Father called the Son God when He is the only God? and another question we can ask is, [b]why would the writer apply the verses that meant for Yahweh in the OT to the Son without blasphemy?

Emusan:
I only have few things to say here, what has been hid in God for so long but through the help of the Holyspirit it has been revealed.

Majority of Christians don't even know who Jesus really is.

In Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds(Universe) were framed by the word of God,..."

@bold-this phrase appear "by the word of God"

In Ephe 3:9 "...which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

@bold-this phrase appear "who created all things by Jesus Christ"

From these two verses no arguement that Jesus was the word of God that created everything.

Now John couldn't make the mistake when he wrote John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Now who is Jesus Christ?
When Angel visit Mary, the Angel told Mary that Holyspirit(God) will visit her, (Note: people like Sarah, Annal, Elizabeth was given a message by Angel that they will conciev but through sperma-their husband) but incase of Mary is not like that God Himself will visit her. If God visit Mary what will God do? He will only speak a word because in Heb 11:3 ".....so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear-by the Word of God" when God speaks new thing will happen.

Incase of Jesus God spake and thing we seen(Jesus) was not made from thing will know(sperma) no wonder John said John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh,...."

Jesus is the word of God(that is, the word that is coming out from God) that's why Jesus said "I and my father are one" Nobody can seperate your word from you and your word is also you. John 1:1.

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God simply because the WORD is the first thing that was first created in the creations account "...And God said (word came out)..." so Jesus will continue to remain only begotten Son as God will continue to speak.

Why Jesus said "My Father is greater than I" the simple answer is if God didn't speak, word will not come out...but their one.

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
@bold-What is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was? God exalted His own WORD(Jesus) through creations.

John 16:27 "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God."
After Jesus made this statement His desciples then know that "...He came forth from God-John 16:29"
Jesus was part of God himself which can not be seperated 'The WORD of GOD'.

Severally in account books of Jesus, He said before His death that "I go to my Father..." inwhich no prophet has ever claimed, but why? Just because He's the WORD of God and He's retuning back to God.

Finally, God is non-contingence being He can do as He likes.....He change His own word to human's nature....and created the universe by His word(Jesus Christ).

We need the Help of the Holyghost to understand Bible because "This is the mystery which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and prophets by [Holy] spirit; Ephe 3:5 this mystery also has been hid in God from the beginning of the world Ephe 3:9. No wonder why, people of ages was so confuse about God...David said "the Lord said to my Lord..."Lol.

Shalom!

I love this, God bless you brother.

Emusan:




I know this is what you will resort to but any open minded person reading John 1 would see that the writer has something more than that in mind before he called the WORD God, as he continue in verse 3 without Him (Jesus) NOTHING WAS MADE, that has been made you believe Jesus was created which means Jesus WAS MADE, now this verse said NOTHING WAS MADE without Jesus, can we then say it's Jesus who created Himself?

Jesus did not create himself- The scripture saids HE WAS GRANTED LIFE, he simply was used to create everything else.

Emusan:

I know either through/by
Good, you agree that Jesus did create heaven itself which means God created Jesus before Jesus now created heaven, now tell me where was Jesus dwelling after He was created (according to you) since every living creations need a place to dwell? remember only God dwells in ETERNITY.

Jesus did NOT create the literal Heavens (abode of
The Father), he help create things in it eg Angels. I made a typographical error which I modified in my previous post. Jesus is not Eternal- Eternal beings don't die- EVER.

Emusan:

am I the one saying it or what is in the scripture? Do you know why NWT has to remove the word "of Christ"?
Please what do you understand from that scripture?

Why do you conclude I only use NWT. I have said it before, I use different translations. Even in this forum I make quotes from KJV and NKJV mostly. Scritpures don't contradict itself.

Emusan:

When you failed to read your Bible, "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD(Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Yahweh)." Who fulfilled this prophecy? John the Baptist & Jesus! Did God send Himself?

The "Lord" in that account is not Yahweh. Its not everwhere in the bible we have Lord/God to mean Yahweh. You can't superimpose that into the original text ( See what KJV did by removing God's true name from the bible because of superstition? Some can't identify where refer to God and where refer to Jesus eg My Lord said to My Lord). Jesus bears the title Lord does not make him Yahweh, Abraham was called Lord too.

Nowhere in the scriptures was it said that Jehovah sent Yahweh sent himself, but he sent a son.

Emusan:

No I didn't! Are you denying Jesus as God? when Genesis told us that it is Yahweh who breath His Spirit of life into Adam and the NT said it is Jesus who created everything including Adam?

Twisting the argument. I have said it before, Jesus is a God (No argument there), but he himself has a God (that is the ball of contention because an Almighty should not have a personal God he answers to).

Emusan:

I do! but everyone can see that you didn't address my question why will the Father called the Son God when He is the only God? and another question we can ask is, [b]why would the writer apply the verses that meant for Yahweh in the OT to the Son without blasphemy?

The Father called the son God because Jesus is a God just like The Father called humans Gods too (Jesus said so). The Father is not the ONLY GOD, he is however the ONLY TRUE GOD- THE ALMIGHTY

A lot of beings are also called God whether we like it all not. What is important his, after calling Jesus God, he differential himself from Jesus by calling himself Jesus 'personal God'- who will aniont Jesus more than jesus' Fellows ( Who are Jesus Fellows).

RikoduoSennin:



Twisting the argument. I have said it before, Jesus is a God (No argument there), but he himself has a God (that is the ball of contention because an Almighty should not have a personal God he answers to).

This is just the issue we've been trying to get straight.

Jesus is GOD, just as the Father is also God -no one is arguing that. But that the Father is also the God of Jesus. Meaning Jesus is not the MOST HIGH GOD

Jesus kept calling the Father His God; and this was not just when He took on the form of a man or only in the days of His humanity. Even after His resurrection, He said in

John 20v17 -...I ascend unto my Father , and your Father; and to MY GOD, and YOUR GOD.

So the Father is GOD to Jesus as Jesus is GOD to us.

Also in the book of revelation, which was well after His ascension, glorification and enthronement in heaven; He still called the Father His GOD.

The Psalmist shows explicitly one God anointing another God; and the God anointing, is the God of the one being anointed.

"The Father is greater than I" is not just a statement in humility, it is a statement in truth. Humility is agreement with the truth.

The Father is the God of Jesus; the Father is the MostHigh God.


Jesus even said it is the Father that gave Him the authority to be self-existent like Him (The Father) unlike the rest of us that live off of God

John 5v26 -For as the Father hath life in Himself; SO HATH HE GIVEN TO THE SON to have life in Himself.

No one is saying Jesus is not God or that He's not creator. But He's not equal to the Father. Their oneness is not equality in authority.

ayoku777:


This is just the issue we've been trying to get straight.

Jesus is GOD, just as the Father is also God -no one is arguing that. But that the Father is also the God of Jesus. Meaning Jesus is not the MOST HIGH GOD

Jesus kept calling the Father His God; and this was not just when He took on the form of a man or only in the days of His humanity. Even after His resurrection, He said in

John 20v17 -...I ascend unto my Father , and your Father; and to MY GOD, and YOUR GOD.

So the Father is GOD to Jesus as Jesus is GOD to us.

Also in the book of revelation, which was well after His ascension, glorification and enthronement in heaven; He still called the Father His GOD.

The Psalmist shows explicitly one God anointing another God; and the God anointing, is the God of the one being anointed.

"The Father is greater than I" is not just a statement in humility, it is a statement in truth. Humility is agreement with the truth.

The Father is the God of Jesus; the Father is the MostHigh God.


Jesus even said it is the Father that gave Him the authority to be self-existent like Him (The Father) unlike the rest of us that live off of God

John 5v26 -For as the Father hath life in Himself; SO HATH HE GIVEN TO THE SON to have life in Himself.

No one is saying Jesus is not God or that He's not creator. But He's not equal to the Father. Their oneness is not equality in authority.

We are in complete agreement.....yet you sound as if we aren't. Please read my previous posts very well....in between the lines.

RikoduoSennin:

Jesus did not create himself- The scripture saids HE WAS GRANTED LIFE, he simply was used to create everything else.

You said EVERYTHING but the key point you neglected in that verse is NOT EVEN ONE THING CAME INTO BEING WITHOUT JESUS is English your problem? If God created Jesus it means IS NOT EVERYTHING CAME INTO BEING THROUGH JESUS.

What John 1:3 is saying is this, ALL CREATIONS came into existence through Jesus Christ OR put it in another way NO SINGLE CREATION WITHOUT JESUS. Now is Jesus Christ a created being/brought into EXISTENCE? YES (according to you), then this made Jesus part of creation BUT John 1:3 never grouped Jesus among creation WHICH MEANS the God John 1:1 is talking about is much more than what you want us to believe.

Jesus did NOT create the literal Heavens (abode of The Father),

Then did this abode of the Father come before Jesus or Jesus comes before this abode?

he help create things in it eg Angels. I made a typographical error which I modified in my previous post. Jesus is not Eternal- Eternal beings don't die- EVER.

Because you lack scriptural knowledge or just for your perverted doctrine you can spew this trash.
Jesus Himself is EVERLASTING LIFE, so how can EVERLASTING LIFE die?

Why do you conclude I only use NWT.

I did conclude but asking a sincere question.

I have said it before, I use different translations. Even in this forum I make quotes from KJV and NKJV mostly. Scritpures don't contradict itself.

Then what do you understand from that verse 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time [size=14pt]the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,[/size] when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The "Lord" in that account is not Yahweh. Its not everwhere in the bible we have Lord/God to mean Yahweh. You can't superimpose that into the original text ( See what KJV did by removing God's true name from the bible because of superstition? Some can't identify where refer to God and where refer to Jesus eg My Lord said to My Lord). Jesus bears the title Lord does not make him Yahweh, Abraham was called Lord too.

Thank God you're a Jehovah Witness I don't need to argue with you here "A voice of one calling out in the wilderness: “Clear up* [size=14pt]the way of Jehovah![/size] Make a straight highway through the desert for our God Isa 40:3 NWT

So who is lying here?

Nowhere in the scriptures was it said that Jehovah sent Yahweh sent himself, but he sent a son

Read Isaiah 40:3 again and again.

Twisting the argument. I have said it before, Jesus is a God (No argument there), but he himself has a God (that is the ball bone of contention because an Almighty should not have a personal God he answers to).

I have also addressed this.

The Father called the son God because Jesus is a God just like The Father called humans Gods too (Jesus said so). The Father is not the ONLY GOD, he is however the ONLY TRUE GOD- THE ALMIGHTY

Next time if you can't address my question stop quoting me.

I asked why will the writer of Hebrew apply the OT verses that meant for Jehovah to Jesus the Son without committing blasphemy? do you still believe Jesus is in the same category of God that those human belong to?

A lot of beings are also called God whether we like it all not. What is important his, after calling Jesus God, he differential himself from Jesus by calling himself Jesus 'personal God'- who will aniont Jesus more than jesus' Fellows ( Who are Jesus Fellows).

Had it been you read the whole book of Hebrew you would've known Jesus' Fellows for quick understanding quickly read Heb 2:7-17

RikoduoSennin:


We are in complete agreement..... yet you sound as if we aren't. Please read my previous posts very well....in between the lines.

No, on the contrary, I fully agree with you; especially the part I quoted. That's why I quoted you. I'm with you on that.

@Rikoduosennin ....... You have spoken well , but you didnt realise what Emusan is up to, he is tryin to tell you that Jehovah of old testament is the Jesus of new testament THEREBY Destroyin is own trinity that said Father and Son are distinct persons AND UNKNOWN TO HIM HE has adopted Modalism, an error Which states that Jehovah of old testament is d same Jesus of new testament !

Emusan went ahead to display his hypocrisy and inconsistency when he said : " He agreed that Jesus has a superior God " but went ahead to Say, Jesus is that same superior God !!!

THE REAL TRUTH

Why is Isaiah 40:3 that refers to clearing the way for The Father, Jehovah APPLIED to his son Jesus in John 1:23 ? ...... Simply Because Jesus is a " REPRESENTATIVE from the Father, and the Father sent Jesus" John 7:29

CAPTIVATOR:
@Rikoduosennin ....... You have spoken well , but you didnt realise what Emusan is up to, he is tryin to tell you that Jehovah of old testament is the Jesus of new testament THEREBY Destroyin is own trinity that said Father and Son are distinct persons AND UNKNOWN TO HIM HE has adopted Modalism, an error Which states that Jehovah of old testament is d same Jesus of new testament!

Are you OK?
If my post is too comprehensive for you to decipher, why can't you ask a simple question? So that someone who knows the road can lead you?

Emusan went ahead to display his hypocrisy and inconsistency when he said : " He agreed that Jesus has a superior God " but went ahead towards Sayin Jesus is that same superior God!!!

Is it ahead/towards? You can't use both.
I'm very sure you don't even understand yourself

THE REAL TRUTH
Why is Isaiah 40:3 that refers to clearing the way for The Father, Jehovah APPLIED to his son Jesus in John 1:23 ? ...... Simply Because Jesus is a " REPRESENTATIVE from the Father, and the Father sent Jesus" John 7:29

It's even good as you quickly twisted that verse by agreeing that Jehovah only applied it to his Son, remember what your man said was that he never seen where Jehovah sent Himself and that the Lord in Isaiah 40:3 is not Jehovah but ordinary Lord YET you can dance to the tune of someone who lacks scriptural knowledge.

Emusan:


Are you OK?
If my post is too comprehensive for you to decipher, why can't you ask a simple question? So that someone who knows the road can lead you?

.... # smiles# am very okay bro

Is it ahead/towards? You can't use both.
I'm very sure you don't even understand yourself

Eeyah ... so your problem is with ahead/towards .Let me write in a language dat u will understand

Emusan went ahead to display his hypocrisy and inconsistency when he said: " I agreed that Jesus has a superior God" but YET went ahead to say Jesus is that same superior God

.......
........

It's even good as you quickly twisted that verse by agreeing that Jehovah only applied it to his Son,

ONCE AGAIN:Why is Isaiah 40:3 that refers to clearing the way for the Father,APPLIED to his son Jesus in Joh 1:23 ?, Simply Bcoz Jesus "is a REPRESENTATIVE from the Father,and the Father {Jehovah} sent Jesus"Joh 7:29

ayoku777:
Personally I think its unfortunate that we are debating IF Jesus Christ is GOD, when EVEN the Church is GOD. And yes, you read me right. I believe that the root of the problem is because we don't understand the meaning of the word GOD or ELOHIM. God or Elohim is not a person, it is a title and a nature, under the Law, the old covenant, it was a title owned by and/or conferred by the LORD (YHWH or Yahovah) on people he sent with His word or He gave the right of judgment, then under the new covenant it became a nature imputed to those born of His WORD.

In Exodus 7v1, the Lord said to Moses 'See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh'. 'God' there is the hebrew 'elohim' and the LORD conferred it on Moses after He sent him with His word. Then Exodus 21v5-6 'And if the servant shall say I love my master, my wife, and my children, I will not go out free. Then his master shall bring him unto the judges... The word 'judges' is also the hebrew 'elohim'. And it was conferred on people given the right of judgment by God, eg Priests and Elders in Israel. Also check Exodus 22v8-9.

Then Psalm 82v1-2 'God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, He judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly...'. 'God and gods' is the same 'elohim' in that verse. And then the very popular verse 6, 'I have said Ye are gods'. Same 'elohim' there. Some christians might say it is small letter 'g' god in all these verses. But let me blow your mind wider. Small or big letter 'g' is purely english, in hebrew, 'elohim' is 'elohim', no small or big letter. So when the scriptures call people elohim, it uses the same letter it uses when it calls 'elohim' in other verses, even for big letter 'G' GOD. All these shows the way elohim was used under the law as a title conferred; before it now became a nature imputed under grace, we will go there shortly. Then this is a verse that best shows this difference between YHWH as a person and elohim as a title, 1Sam 2v25 'If one man sin against another, the judge (Elohim) shall judge him. But if a man sin against the LORD (Yahovah), who shall intreat for him'. This shows the difference between the person of the Father and the title elohim, which is used by the LORD and also conferred by Him.

Then when Jesus came He said 'I and My Father are one' John 10v30. I've heard some christians say he was talking about oneness in terms of purpose and mission. Emphatically NO! He was talking to jews who knew the scriptures in Deut 6v4 'Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD (YHWH)'. So when Jesus said I and my Father are ONE, he meant I and my Father are JEHOVAH (The Self-Existent One). So Jesus didn't even call himself elohim, He called himself YHWH. Calling himself elohim would have even been bearable to the jews 'coz there were people who God conferred the title on under the law, but to the Jews calling yourself YHWH was going too far. That was why the Jews wanted to stone him. So God is even a title too little for Jesus, that's a title for the Church (those born of the Word), Jesus is Jehovah, just like the Father.

Moving on, the Jews reply Jesus in John 10v33 For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God'. Jesus replied them and said in v34-35 Is it not written in your law, I said Ye are Gods? If He called them Gods unto whom the word of God came, and the scriptures cannot be broken. In other words, if those sent with the word of God are called Gods, how much more those BORN OF THE WORD (the church)? And how much much much more THE WORD HIMSELF (Jesus). So hear this, The Father, The Word, The Church (through the Spirit) are Elohim. But only the Father and the Word are Jehovah or YHWH (Self-Existent) as stated by Christ in John 5v26 For as the Father hath life in himself (Self-existent), so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself (self-existent).

Some might argue that if Jesus is God, how come he still prays to the father. Simple! If God is a title then it will definitly be in heirachy. The authority and Godhood of the one who begat (Father) will definitely be above that of the one begotten (Jesus). And the authority of the first begotten will also be above the others begotten (Church). Even though all of them are Elohim. Its like a pride, in a pride all the males are lions, but there are daddy lion, Sons lion and baby lion. Maybe even grandpa lion, they are all lions but authority-wise they differ. Christ is elohim, and even, Jehovah like the Father but he's still subject to the Father, just like the church is elohim (by being born of the word) but also subject to Christ. That's why Jesus said in John 14v28 'For my Father is greater than I'. The Father prays to no one, Jesus prays to the Father, and the Church, through the Spirit, prays to the Father in the name of Jesus. All elohim, but different authority levels.

So let's rest this debate of whether Jesus is elohim or not. Jesus is more than elohim, he is Jehovah, like the Father. What we should be debating is whether the church is elohim or not. And we are by the way, so let's even rest that as well.

Your exegesis of the word as seen here is infallibly flawless and I rejoice at your mastery but you must note the dangers that abound if this exegesis is taught to babies and toddlers in Christ!

1. Many christians are yet to place a dividing line between God as a title and YHVH as the person. The two are believed to be strictly the same so telling them Jesus is greater than God will DESTABILIZE their mental faculties and the result would be endless arguments.

2. Your exegesis would also leave many with the question: if Yeshua and YHVH are one and hence Yeshua is YHVH then what is the distinctive name of the FATHER!? Because if Yeshua is begotten of YHVH then, though Yeshua is one in nature with YHVH, Yeshua is not YHVH as both Yeshua and YHVH are two different personalities with different names.

Is Jesus God?
Have you ever met a man who is the centre of attention wherever he goes? Some mysterious, indefinable characteristic sets him apart from all other men. Well, that’s the way it was two thousand years ago with Jesus Christ. But it wasn’t merely Jesus’ personality that captivated those who heard him. Those who witnessed his words and life tell us that something about Jesus of Nazareth was different from all other men.

Jesus’ only credentials were himself. He never wrote a book, commanded an army, held a political office, or owned property. He mostly travelled within a hundred miles of his village, attracting crowds who were amazed at his provocative words and stunning deeds.

Yet Jesus’ greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. And while most great people eventually fade into history books, Jesus is still the focus of thousands of books and unparalleled media controversy. And much of that controversy revolves around the radical claims Jesus made about himself---claims that astounded both his followers and his adversaries.

It was primarily Jesus’ unique claims that caused him to be viewed as a threat by both the Roman authorities and the Jewish hierarchy. Although he was an outsider with no credentials or political powerbase, within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact---but nothing like that unknown carpenter’s son from Nazareth.

What was it about Jesus Christ that made the difference? Was he merely a great man, or something more?
These questions get to the heart of who Jesus really was. Some believe he was merely a great moral teacher; others believe he was simply the leader of the world’s greatest religion. But many believe something far more. Christians believe that God has actually visited us in human form. And they believe the evidence backs that up.

After carefully examining Jesus’ life and words, former Cambridge professor and sceptic, C. S. Lewis, came to a startling conclusion about him that altered the course of his life. So who is the real Jesus? Many will answer that Jesus was a great moral teacher. As we take a deeper look at the world’s most controversial person, we begin by asking: could Jesus have been merely a great moral teacher

Great Moral Teacher?
Even those from other religions acknowledge that Jesus was a great moral teacher. Indian leader, Mahatma Gandhi, spoke highly of Jesus’ righteous life and profound words. Likewise, Jewish scholar Joseph Klausner wrote, “It is universally admitted … that Christ taught the purest and sublimes ethics … which throws the moral precepts and maxims of the wisest men of antiquity far into the shade.

Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount has been called the most superlative teaching of human ethics ever uttered by an individual. In fact, much of what we know today as “equal rights” actually is the result of Jesus’ teaching. Historian Will Durant, a non-Christian, said of Jesus that “he lived and struggled unremittingly for ‘equal rights’; in modern times he would have been sent to Siberia. ‘He that is greatest among you, let him be your servant’—this is the inversion of all political wisdom, of all sanity.

Many, like Gandhi, have tried to separate Jesus’ teaching on ethics from his claims about himself, believing that he was simply a great man who taught lofty moral principles. This was the approach of one of America’s Founding Fathers, President Thomas Jefferson, who cut and pasted a copy of the New Testament, removing sections he thought referred to Jesus’ deity, while leaving in other passages regarding Jesus’ ethical and moral teaching.

Jefferson carried around his cut and pasted New Testament with him, revering Jesus as perhaps the greatest moral teacher of all time.
In fact, Jefferson’s memorable words in the Declaration of Independence were rooted in Jesus’ teaching that each person is of immense and equal importance to God, regardless of sex, race, or social status. The famous document sets forth, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights …”

But one thing Jefferson didn’t answer: If Jesus falsely claimed to be God he couldn’t have been a good moral teacher. But did Jesus really claim deity? Before we look at what Jesus claimed, we need to examine the possibility that he was simply a great religious leader?

Great Religious Leader?

Surprisingly, Jesus never claimed to be a religious leader. He never got into religious politics or pushed an ambitious agenda, and he ministered almost entirely outside the established religious framework.

When one compares Jesus with the other great religious leaders, a remarkable distinction emerges. Ravi Zacharias, who grew up in a Hindu culture, has studied world religions and observed a fundamental distinction between Jesus Christ and the founders of other major religions.

"In all of these, there emerges an instruction, a way of living. It is not Zoroaster to whom you turn; it is Zoroaster to whom you listen. It is not Buddha who delivers you; it is his Noble Truths that instruct you. It is not Mohammad who transforms you; it is the beauty of the Koran that woos you. By contrast, Jesus did not only teach or expound His message. He was identical with His message.

The truth of Zacharias’ point is underscored by the number of times in the Gospels that Jesus’ teaching message was simply “Come to me” or “Follow me” or “Obey me.” Also, Jesus made it clear that his primary mission was to forgive sins, something only God could do.
In The World’s Great Religions, Huston Smith observed, “Only two people ever astounded their contemporaries so much that the question they evoked was not ‘Who is he?’ but ‘What is he?’ They were Jesus and Buddha. The answers these two gave were exactly the opposite. Buddha said unequivocally that he was a mere man, not a god—almost as if he foresaw later attempts to worship him. Jesus, on the other hand, claimed … to be divine.

And that leads us to the question of what Jesus really did claim for himself; specifically, did Jesus claim to be divine? Did Jesus Claim to be God?
So what is it that convinces many scholars that Jesus claimed to be God? Author, John Piper explains that Jesus claimed power which uniquely belonged to God.
“…Jesus’ friends and enemies were staggered again and again by what he said and did. He would be walking down the road, seemingly like any other man, and then turn and say something like, ‘Before Abraham was, I am.’ Or, ‘If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.’ Or, very calmly, after being accused of blasphemy, he would say, ‘The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.’ To the dead he might simply say, ‘Come forth,’ or, ‘Rise up.’ And they would obey. To the storms on the sea he would say, ‘Be still.’ And to a loaf of bread he would say, ‘Become a thousand meals.’ And it was done immediately.

But what did Jesus really mean by such statements? Is it possible Jesus was merely a prophet like Moses or Elijah, or Daniel? Even a superficial reading of the Gospels reveals that Jesus claimed to be someone more than a prophet. No other prophet had made such claims about himself; in fact, no other prophet ever put himself in God’s place.

Some argue that Jesus never explicitly said, “I am God.” It is true that he never stated the exact words, “I am God.” However, Jesus also never explicitly said, “I am a man,” or “I am a prophet.” Yet Jesus was undoubtedly human, and his followers considered him a prophet like Moses and Elijah. So we cannot rule out Jesus being divine just because he didn’t say those exact words, anymore than we can say he wasn’t a prophet.
In fact, Jesus’ statements about himself contradict the notion that he was simply a great man or a prophet. On more than one occasion, Jesus referred to himself as God’s Son. When asked whether he thought it far-fetched for Jesus to be the Son of God, lead singer of U2, Bono, answered:
“No, it’s not far-fetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: He was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off the hook. Christ says, no. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me a teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet….I’m saying I’m God incarnate.” And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet we can take.

Before we examine Jesus’ claims, it is important to understand that he made them in the context of the Jewish belief in one God (monotheism). No faithful Jew would ever believe in more than one God. And Jesus believed in the one God, praying to his Father as, “the only true God.
But in that same prayer, Jesus spoke of having always existed with his Father. And when Philip asked Jesus to show them the Father, Jesus said, “Philip, have I been with you so long and you don’t know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.”10 So the question is: “Was Jesus claiming to be the Hebrew God who created the world?