ZoranderGraeme:


Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.

—Deuteronomy 18:18-20
Samau'al al-Maghribi, a Jewish mathematician who converted to Islam, pointed to Deuteronomy 18:18 in his book Convincing the Jews as a prophecy fulfilled by Muhammad. Samau'al argued in his book that since the children of Esau are described in Deuteronomy 2:4-6 [and in Numbers 20:14 as well] as the brethren of the children of Israel, the children of Ishmael can also be described the same way.

The comparison between Moses and Muhammad is quite common in the Qur'an and the Islamic tradition. Ka'ab al-Ahbar said: "Verily God Most High divided His vision and His conversation between Muhammad and Moses. He spoke to Moses twice, and Muhammad saw Him twice.

It is also reported in the books of hadiths that Muhammad declared before his companions that he and Ali are like Moses and Aaron.

Some Muslim writers, like Muhammad Ali, interpreted Qur'an 46:10 as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. The witness from among the Children of Israel is thought to be Moses, and the one like him is believed to be Muhammad:

Qur'an 73:15 was also interpreted by some Muslim writers, like Fethullah Gülen, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. Similarly, Qur'an 53:3-4, where it has been stated that "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]", was further interpreted by Muslim writers, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18

I can remember you admitting that Jesus was not like moses. Consider the lives of Moses and Jesus in the bible, then consider that of Moses and Muhammad.

If John 1:45 confirms that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is indeed the prophet MOSES and the prophets wrote about  (with Jesus' own in Luke 24:44) where and how does Mohammed fit in?

2. Between Moses and Mohammed several prophets came and went, so what in particular (what special thing) should make anyone think Moses was referring to Mohammed and not any of the other ones?

3. If Muslims don't want to accept the Bible, why pick out some portions of it to want to enhance the image of their prophet or their book?

plainbibletruth:
[size=6pt][/size]

If John 1:45 confirms that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is indeed the prophet MOSES and the prophets wrote about  (with Jesus' own in Luke 24:44) where and how does Mohammed fit in?

2. Between Moses and Mohammed several prophets came and went, so what in particular (what special thing) should make anyone think Moses was referring to Mohammed and not any of the other ones?

3. If Muslims don't want to accept the Bible, why pick out some portions of it to want to enhance the image of their prophet or their book?

I think the verse you're talking about speaks of how jesus said Moses spoke about him. Maybe he did, but some of these prophecies can only be attributed to Muhammad, I will give you a few examples below, now you ask why muslims don't to accept the bible but point to parts that we rightfully say speaks of Muhammad, that's because, read:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it.  (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"

Whatever in the bible agrees with the principles and teachings of Muhammad, that's what is right.

Now about these prophecies, how can you tell me this speaks of Jesus and not Muhammad?

He said,

“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us;

he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousand of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand."
—Deuteronomy 33:2
Samau'al al-Maghribi referred to this verse also in his book as a prophecy of Muhammad. He said that Mount Sinai refers to Moses, Mount Seir "the Mount of Esau" refers to Jesus, and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael" refers to Muhammad.

some contemporary Muslim scholars have also pointed to the similarity between Deuteronomy 33:2 and Qur'an 95:1-3 where "the Fig and the Olive" refers to Jesus, "Mount Sinai" refers to Moses, and "Mecca" refers to Muhammad.

"the ten thousand of holy ones" are thought to be the ten thousand Companions of Muhammad.

Or this?

"Behold! My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect One, in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry out, nor raise His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench. In truth He shall bring forth justice. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth; and the islands shall wait for His law."

—Isaiah 42:1

This is even more obvious, you do accept that Muhammad like Moses brought new laws?

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is therein, the islands, and the inhabitants thereof! 11 Let the wilderness and its cities lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar inhabits. Let the inhabitants of Sela sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory to the Lord, and declare His praise in the islands. 13 The Lord shall go forth like a mighty man; He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies.

—Isaiah 42:10
The mention of Mount Sela (Arabic: جبل سلع, Hebrew: הר סלע) "the mountain of Medina" and the mention of Kedar "the forefather of Muhammad", in verse 11, is proof that this verse was indeed speaking of Muhammad.

Does Muhammad not fit the bill?

"He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies."

ZoranderGraeme:


I think the verse you're talking about speaks of how jesus said Moses spoke about him. Maybe he did, but some of these prophecies can only be attributed to Muhammad, I will give you a few examples below, now you ask why muslims don't to accept the bible but point to parts that we rightfully say speaks of Muhammad, that's because, read:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it.  (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"

Whatever in the bible agrees with the principles and teachings of Muhammad, that's what is right.

Now about these prophecies, how can you tell me this speaks of Jesus and not Muhammad?

He said,

“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us;

he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousand of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand."
—Deuteronomy 33:2
Samau'al al-Maghribi referred to this verse also in his book as a prophecy of Muhammad. He said that Mount Sinai refers to Moses, Mount Seir "the Mount of Esau" refers to Jesus, and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael" refers to Muhammad.

some contemporary Muslim scholars have also pointed to the similarity between Deuteronomy 33:2 and Qur'an 95:1-3 where "the Fig and the Olive" refers to Jesus, "Mount Sinai" refers to Moses, and "Mecca" refers to Muhammad.

This was not a prophecy! This was Moses recounting his encounter when he went to receive the law in Exodus hence it is written in the past tense.
Exodus 19:18
18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Exodus 24:12
12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

Or this?

"Behold! My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect One, in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry out, nor raise His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench. In truth He shall bring forth justice. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth; and the islands shall wait for His law."

—Isaiah 42:1

This refers to Jesus Christ. Vs 1-3 pertain to His first coming, Vs 4-5 to His Reign during the millenium:
Now let's break it down:
1. "I have put My Spirit upon Him
Jesus said
Luke 4:18

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 3:34
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

2) Vs 2-3 was clearly fulfilled as attested to by Matthew 12:15-20

15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is therein, the islands, and the inhabitants thereof! 11 Let the wilderness and its cities lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar inhabits. Let the inhabitants of Sela sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory to the Lord, and declare His praise in the islands. 13 The Lord shall go forth like a mighty man; He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies.

—Isaiah 42:10
The mention of Mount Sela (Arabic: جبل سلع, Hebrew: הר סלע) "the mountain of Medina" and the mention of Kedar "the forefather of Muhammad", in verse 11, is proof that this verse was indeed speaking of Muhammad.

Does Muhammad not fit the bill?

"He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies."

This continues to describe the events that will precede the Millenial reign as shown in Revelations 19:11-21. The pronoun, 'He' is referring to He Whom God as highly exalted as Lord, as the context/verse shows.

Scholar8200:
This was not a prophecy! This was Moses recounting his encounter when he went to receive the law in Exodus hence it is written in the past tense.
Exodus 19:18
18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Exodus 24:12
12 And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

This refers to Jesus Christ. Vs 1-3 pertain to His first coming, Vs 4-5 to His Reign during the millenium:
Now let's break it down:
1. "I have put My Spirit upon Him
Jesus said
Luke 4:18

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 3:34
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

2) Vs 2-3 was clearly fulfilled as attested to by Matthew 12:15-20

15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

16 And charged them that they should not make him known:

17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.

20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.


This continues to describe the events that will precede the Millenial reign as shown in Revelations 19:11-21. The pronoun, 'He' is referring to He Whom God as highly exalted as Lord, as the context/verse shows.

As always scholar you forget its quality and not quantity that matters. Now deurotomy 33:31 the verse before that says




Bible > Deuteronomy > Chapter 33 > Verse 1

◄ Deuteronomy 33:1 ►
New International Version
This is the blessing that Moses the man of God pronounced on the Israelites before his death.

Now the fact that he said it in past tense can obviously mean he's narrating what he foresaw the future as, obviously the verse before that explains it all.

Then you went on to quote exodus? Really? Verses that are not even relateable to this situation, maybe you're being willingly ignorant or you're willingly concealing the truth.

The as to the events you mentioned in matthew, it speaks of what a man saw Jesus action meaning, Jesus didn't say acknowledge or confirm that. That was just his opinion.

Then you convieniently skipped the part about law, Jesus brought no laws. Whose laws are/were they awaiting?

Pfftttt!

Then as to your claims about isaiah, let me just save myself the trouble of too much talk as you did and say, NO IT Doesn't! That verse is in perfect agreement with the life of Muhammad.

Ovacoma:

only Bible can interprete it! So, no point going to any other source as Bible came before, and may have been plagiarised, therefore, leave any other sources out. Sceptre has to do with royalty, and Judah is a tribe in Israel. I know king David is from the tribe and Israel assembled in shiloh many time. Anything pointing to muhammed here? Absolutely no. Or are u saying muhammed is Judah, or shiloh? I wouldn't read any other thing outside the Bible since we are not comparing the two books. I just want verses pointing to a man outside Israel, with another religion or new idea of God, 99 names, new way of worship, such as facing kaaba, bowing towards it, the black stone, etc, these are well known thing brought by muhammed. Just point to them in the Bible. Sorry for disturb.

You should read my recent posts here as well. Here are a few more for you to consider.

Habakkuk 3:3Edit
God will come from the south, and the holy one from mount Pharan: His glory covered the heavens, and the earth is full of his praise.

—Habakkuk 3:3[53]
This prophecy is also commonly cited by Muslims as a prophecy of Muhammad. Since there is no connection between Jesus and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael", Muslims argue that the "holy one" in this verse is Muhammad.[54] They often interpret the Coming of God from the south of Palestine as a reference to the cradle of Islam in the western coast of Arabia.

Dead Sea ScrollsEdit
These scrolls predict the coming of two messiahs. These two messiahs are referred to as a priestly messiah from the lineage of Aaron and a kingly messiah from the lineage of David.[55] The priestly messiah of Aaron is identified as Jesus son of Mary in the light of Qur'an 19:28 which says that Mary "the mother of Jesus" came from the lineage of Aaron. The kingly messiah is identified as Muhammad in the light of the gospel of Barnabas, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44 and Matthew 22:42-46 which all assert that the coming messiah "the kingly messiah" is not going to be from the lineage of David. Margaret S. King argues, in Chapter 12 of her book "Unveiling The Messiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls", that the Jews were informed by the son of Mary that the kingly messiah whom they were expecting would come from the lineage of Ishmael.

The dead sea scrolls are jewsih scrolls found in the dead sea, there are strong claims that the name Ahmad, the exact name the Quran foretold are in these scrolls. You should also read my article in the islam section about Muhammad in hindu scriptures, you should also read my article on the concept of God in islam.

I bid you farewell for now, I really hope you find the truth you seek. Salam.

ZoranderGraeme:
And muslims weren't brutally tortured and forced to renounce their faith and when they refuse brutally murdered?

You mean Muhammad and his Caliph?

Surprise surprise, you still don't get it.

Or you don't?

And it can be used as physical superiority, what makes you think you're better qualified to interpret that than all the muslim scholars I. The world? And how will them accept spiritual superiority when they don't believe in the one true God.

How did I interpret it? I can see that you've totally missed the point here.

You see this just sums up your confusion, Jizya is a pillar of islam? Lmao! Please, who is the imb*cile that told you this? News flash, muslims don't pay Jizya, dweeb, only non muslims do? Lol! This just proves how ignorant you are.

My point is that you don't know anything about islam.

And when you read this, you clearly saw, that if they refuse to accept islam they should pay, Jizya, a tax paid by non Muslim, you have epically failed in this post,

Yeah I actually confused it with Zaakat, I admitted my error on that part!

where is the forceful conversion? Did he say convert them by force? He said if they refuse islam, they should pay Jizya. It's not a pillar of Islam like you hilariously posted above. [size=14pt]Please, if you have any evidence of where the Quran or the prophet approved forceful conversion, feel free.[/size] Lol! But this post really cracked me up.

I can't stop laughing sha...you're still trying hard to defend your Allah. Like I said I don't want to post another verse and I can see how you boycott the word of Muhammad in that hadith.

But let me just give you these from both Quran and the Hadith:

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone." S. 2:192 (Which means the fight will stop UNTIL everybody worships Allah)

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" S 8:12
(Unbelievers' head and fingertip should be strike off, what does Allah mean here?)

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: [size=14pt]'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'.[/size] And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally." (Please who ORDERED Muhammad here to FIGHT?)

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah." http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/001-smt.php#001.0030

You need further schooling by your fellow zealots.

You need more than I do...

Again after all this Allah can still say "let there be no compulsion in religion" after he has commanded Muhammad to forcefully convert people.

The more you tried hard to prove Allah right the more Muhammad and his caliph's life disprove you.

Deuteronomy 18:18
18 I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.

—Deuteronomy 18:18-20
Samau'al al-Maghribi, a Jewish mathematician who converted to Islam, pointed to Deuteronomy 18:18 in his book Convincing the Jews as a prophecy fulfilled by Muhammad. Samau'al argued in his book that since the children of Esau are described in Deuteronomy 2:4-6 [and in Numbers 20:14 as well] as the brethren of the children of Israel, the children of Ishmael can also be described the same way.

The comparison between Moses and Muhammad is quite common in the Qur'an and the Islamic tradition. Ka'ab al-Ahbar said: "Verily God Most High divided His vision and His conversation between Muhammad and Moses. He spoke to Moses twice, and Muhammad saw Him twice.

It is also reported in the books of hadiths that Muhammad declared before his companions that he and Ali are like Moses and Aaron.

Some Muslim writers, like Muhammad Ali, interpreted Qur'an 46:10 as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. The witness from among the Children of Israel is thought to be Moses, and the one like him is believed to be Muhammad:

Qur'an 73:15 was also interpreted by some Muslim writers, like Fethullah Gülen, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18. Similarly, Qur'an 53:3-4, where it has been stated that "Nor does he (Muhammad) speak of his own desire. It is but an Inspiration that is inspired [unto him]", was further interpreted by Muslim writers, as a reference to Deuteronomy 18:18

I can remember you admitting that Jesus was not like moses. Consider the lives of Moses and Jesus in the bible, then consider that of Moses and Muhammad.

This is clearly Jesus, not muhammed! Did Jesus reject being called prophet? Was muhammed from among Israelites? Was muhammed like Moses? Was muhammed prophet to the Israelites? Is allah the same as I AM THAT I AM? As long as all these and many other question like these are negative, muha doesn't fit in. Jesus is the Prophet, Son of man, Son of God, Rabbi, Teacher, Christ... . How would you explain muhammed eternal hatred for Jews, even cursing them on his death bed?

You should read my recent posts here as well. Here are a few more for you to consider.

Habakkuk 3:3Edit
God will come from the south, and the holy one from mount Pharan: His glory covered the heavens, and the earth is full of his praise.

—Habakkuk 3:3[53]
This prophecy is also commonly cited by Muslims as a prophecy of Muhammad. Since there is no connection between Jesus and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael", Muslims argue that the "holy one" in this verse is Muhammad.[54] They often interpret the Coming of God from the south of Palestine as a reference to the cradle of Islam in the western coast of Arabia.

Dead Sea ScrollsEdit
These scrolls predict the coming of two messiahs. These two messiahs are referred to as a priestly messiah from the lineage of Aaron and a kingly messiah from the lineage of David.[55] The priestly messiah of Aaron is identified as Jesus son of Mary in the light of Qur'an 19:28 which says that Mary "the mother of Jesus" came from the lineage of Aaron. The kingly messiah is identified as Muhammad in the light of the gospel of Barnabas, Mark 12:35-37, Luke 20:41-44 and Matthew 22:42-46 which all assert that the coming messiah "the kingly messiah" is not going to be from the lineage of David. Margaret S. King argues, in Chapter 12 of her book "Unveiling The Messiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls", that the Jews were informed by the son of Mary that the kingly messiah whom they were expecting would come from the lineage of Ishmael.

The dead sea scrolls are jewsih scrolls found in the dead sea, there are strong claims that the name Ahmad, the exact name the Quran foretold are in these scrolls. You should also read my article in the islam section about Muhammad in hindu scriptures, you should also read my article on the concept of God in islam.

I bid you farewell for now, I really hope you find the truth you seek. Salam.

despite all the twisted and turning the Bible upside down to make muha fit in, all still refuse to stand. Dead scroll, gospel of barnabas, etc further makes all your claims Fraud.

.

Emusan:


You mean Muhammad and his Caliph?

Yes and no, There was a time Muhammad got stoned while preaching, he lost a few of his teeth. Early muslims, especially slaves that accepted islam got flogged and even killed, if they don't renounce their faith in the One True God. that is what resulted to muslims migrating to Abyssinia and then medina.

Or you don't?



How did I interpret it? I can see that you've totally missed the point here.



Yeah I actually confused it with Zaakat, I admitted my error on that part!

Let's skip the banter and get down to business....

I can't stop laughing sha...you're still trying hard to defend your Allah. Like I said I don't want to post another verse and I can see how you boycott the word of Muhammad in that hadith.

But let me just give you these from both Quran and the Hadith:

Thank you, all I asked for.

"And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone." S. 2:192 (Which means the fight will stop UNTIL everybody worships Allah)

Here you exhibit one of two things, hypocrisy or ignorance, you quoted Surat Al Baqarah verse 192, hmmm, let's see what the passage says.
2:190
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2:190
Sahih International
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
2:191
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2:191
Sahih International
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192
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2:192
Sahih International
[color=#990000]And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193
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2:193
Sahih International
Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
2:194
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2:194
Sahih International
[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
2:195
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2:195
Sahih International
And spend in the way of Allah and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

Here we see you not only misquoted (the verse you speak of is 193) but you took the verse out of context and twisted it. Heck you even removed the part of that same verse 193 that says if they cease, one must not fight but only against oppressors. Can you now see how ignorant and or hypocritical you are? Why? Just to spread hate and lies? Or just to pass a false god to the gullible? It's a shame really. It also speaks about not fighting during Ramadan, do these so called muslims not attack the innocent during the sacred month? So whose teachings are they following?

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" S 8:12
(Unbelievers' head and fingertip should be strike off, what does Allah mean here?)

Again either ignorance of hypocrisy. Let's read the passage shall we?

8:8
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8:8
Sahih International
That He should establish the truth and abolish falsehood, even if the criminals disliked it.
8:9
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8:9
Sahih International
[Remember] when you asked help of your Lord, and He answered you, "Indeed, I will reinforce you with a thousand from the angels, following one another."
8:10
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8:10
Sahih International
And Allah made it not but good tidings and so that your hearts would be assured thereby. And victory is not but from Allah . Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
8:11
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8:11
Sahih International
[Remember] when He overwhelmed you with drowsiness [giving] security from Him and sent down upon you from the sky, rain by which to purify you and remove from you the evil [suggestions] of Satan and to make steadfast your hearts and plant firmly thereby your feet.
8:12
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8:12
Sahih International
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
8:13
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8:13
Sahih International
That is because they opposed Allah and His Messenger. And whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

Can you see? Why do you lie? This speaks of the battle of Badr, when after the muslims feared for their lives and fled to medina, the pagans came after them to end them. It was 1000 pagans against a measly 313 muslims, but Allah assured him of victory. Some Muslims actually saw the Angels fighting, another miracle is that before the battle Muhammad predicted the death of a few pagans and even where their bodies would be found and after Allah gave them victory, those pagans were found dead exactly where Muhammad predicted.

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: [size=14pt]'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'.[/size] And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally." (Please who ORDERED Muhammad here to FIGHT?)

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah." http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/001-smt.php#001.0030[/color]

The authority of the Quran outweighs that of the Hadith, And you are yet to bring up a single verse that preaches forceful conversion, so obviously these Hadiths speak of Muhammad talking about the oppressors those verses speak about. It's like the Quran says:

“The way of blame is only against those who treat the people unjustly, and resort to aggression without provocation. These have incurred a painful retribution”–Q. 42:42

“We willed to show favor to those who were oppressed on earth, and to turn them into leaders, and make them the inheritors.”–Q. 28:5

And the hadiths:

“I shall take revenge on the oppressor in this world and the next. I shall take revenge on someone who saw the person being oppressed and was able to help him but did not”–Hadith Qudsi.

Narrated Abu Bakrah: The Prophet (SAW) said: There is no sin more fitted to have punishment meted out by Allah to its perpetrator in advance in this world along with what He stores up for him in the next world than oppression and severing ties of relationship. Sahih Muslim: Book 41, Number 4884

“The best Jihad is to speak a word of truth to a tyrannical ruler”–Prophet Muhammad(SAW)

“Whoever assists an oppressor against an oppressed one always remains under Divine anger until he stops aiding the tyrant”–Ja’far al-Sadiq (RAA)
Just to quote a few of them.


No! As proven above, you are a hypocritical ignoramus who needs to stop drinkIng the haterade.

You need more than I do...

Again after all this Allah can still say "let there be no compulsion in religion" after he has commanded Muhammad to forcefully convert people.

Yes, I reiterate "there is no compulsion in Religion"

The more you tried hard to prove Allah right the more Muhammad and his caliph's life disprove you.

And yet you have failed to prove a damn thing that supports your claim.

Ovacoma, can you see the ignorance I spoke to you of?

Ovacoma:
This is clearly Jesus, not muhammed! Did Jesus reject being called prophet? Was muhammed from among Israelites? Was muhammed like Moses? Was muhammed prophet to the Israelites? Is allah the same as I AM THAT I AM? As long as all these and many other question like these are negative, muha doesn't fit in. Jesus is the Prophet, Son of man, Son of God, Rabbi, Teacher, Christ... . How would you explain muhammed eternal hatred for Jews, even cursing them on his death bed?

Lol! How? He didn't reject being called a prophet because that's what he was and that's what he is and that's what he ever will be. Muhammad was an Arab, read your bible, verse didn't say from amongst you or from your people, it says brethren, by tradition Isaac is the father of the Jews and Ishmael his brother is the traditional father of the Arabs, obviously this qualifies the Jews and Arabs as brothers.

I am that I am? Well.. Depends

Are these questions really negative or do you just choose to ignore the truth?

Jesus the son of Mary was a prophet, and one of the most exalted prophets of Allah the almighty, he (Allah) didn't beget and nor was he begotten, for far he is above having a son, the master of the day of Judgement.

Lol! Like the Quran says, not all JEWS are the same, but they as a people will always be against muslims, not Israelis, followers of Judaism. going by that logic you're trying to say muslims don't regard Isaac, Jesus etc... Who were JEWS but that's far from the truth. I think it's about the Jews, in this context it means the adherents of Judaism, who poisoned him during his time. And I curse those JEWS as well.

Ovacoma:

despite all the twisted and turning the Bible upside down to make muha fit in, all still refuse to stand. Dead scroll, gospel of barnabas, etc further makes all your claims Fraud.

What did I twist, please... Or is there anything here that isn't in your bible. How does it refuse to stand? The Dead Sea scrolls are neutral, it's just further proof for those who seek it,

I think the verse you're talking about speaks of how jesus said Moses spoke about him. Maybe he did, but some of these prophecies can only be attributed to Muhammad, I will give you a few examples below, now you ask why muslims don't to accept the bible but point to parts that we rightfully say speaks of Muhammad, that's because, read:

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Whatever the people of the Book [Jews and Christians] tell you, do not verify them, nor falsify them, but say: We believe in Allah and His Apostle. If it is false, do not confirm it, and if it is right, do not falsify it.  (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3637)"

Whatever in the bible agrees with the principles and teachings of Muhammad, that's what is right.

Now about these prophecies, how can you tell me this speaks of Jesus and not Muhammad?

He said,

“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us;

he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousand of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand."
—Deuteronomy 33:2
Samau'al al-Maghribi referred to this verse also in his book as a prophecy of Muhammad. He said that Mount Sinai refers to Moses, Mount Seir "the Mount of Esau" refers to Jesus, and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael" refers to Muhammad.

some contemporary Muslim scholars have also pointed to the similarity between Deuteronomy 33:2 and Qur'an 95:1-3 where "the Fig and the Olive" refers to Jesus, "Mount Sinai" refers to Moses, and "Mecca" refers to Muhammad.

"the ten thousand of holy ones" are thought to be the ten thousand Companions of Muhammad.

Or this?

"Behold! My Servant, whom I uphold; My Elect One, in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry out, nor raise His voice, nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench. In truth He shall bring forth justice. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till He has established justice in the earth; and the islands shall wait for His law."

—Isaiah 42:1

This is even more obvious, you do accept that Muhammad like Moses brought new laws?

Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise from the ends of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and all that is therein, the islands, and the inhabitants thereof! 11 Let the wilderness and its cities lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar inhabits. Let the inhabitants of Sela sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory to the Lord, and declare His praise in the islands. 13 The Lord shall go forth like a mighty man; He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies.

—Isaiah 42:10
The mention of Mount Sela (Arabic: جبل سلع, Hebrew: הר סלע) "the mountain of Medina" and the mention of Kedar "the forefather of Muhammad", in verse 11, is proof that this verse was indeed speaking of Muhammad.

Does Muhammad not fit the bill?

"He shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: He shall cry, yea, roar; He shall prevail against His enemies."

So you quote from the Bible to say there is a prophecy about Mohammed but when the same Bible says who that very prophecy refers to – Jesus Christ – you reject that and claim that it is Mohammed. What kind of deduction do you call that?

To you ‘some contemporary Muslim scholars’ claim is more important than clear statements of the Bible. How convenient!

Suppose I tell you that the word ‘Ijebu’ is derived from the biblical word ‘Jebusite’ and therefore the Ijebus are descended from the Jebusites, how about that for “good” argument like you have attempted in your post. So you can see how childish your ‘similarity’ and ‘proof’ sound.

The first issue you need to look at is this – the portions in the Bible usually quoted by Muslims to support Mohammed being prophesied is ADDRESSED to the Israelites. How then do you explain why God’s promise to and for Israel and their future will suddenly mysteriously turn out to be about a completely irrelevant person to the people of Israel – Mohammed who has nothing to do with them whatsoever?

The second is this: You are yet to clarify this: In what way was Mohammed distinctively like Moses in his Prophethood? After all that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.

ScreledrusMortm:


Lol! How? He didn't reject being called a prophet because that's what he was and that's what he is and that's what he ever will be. Muhammad was an Arab, read your bible, verse didn't say from amongst you or from your people, it says brethren, by tradition Isaac is the father of the Jews and Ishmael his brother is the traditional father of the Arabs, obviously this qualifies the Jews and Arabs as brothers.

I am that I am? Well.. Depends

Are these questions really negative or do you just choose to ignore the truth?

Jesus the son of Mary was a prophet, and one of the most exalted prophets of Allah the almighty, he (Allah) didn't beget and nor was he begotten, for far he is above having a son, the master of the day of Judgement.

Lol! Like the Quran says, not all JEWS are the same, but they as a people will always be against muslims, not Israelis, followers of Judaism. going by that logic you're trying to say muslims don't regard Isaac, Jesus etc... Who were JEWS but that's far from the truth. I think it's about the Jews, in this context it means the adherents of Judaism, who poisoned him during his time. And I curse those JEWS as well.

you twist things to suite your muhammed. Anyway, God didn't promise Israelites muhammed. Many people have claimed to find themselves prophesied in the Bible. There is one acid test, if others fail, to know a prophet of God. Moses told Israel never to follow any prophet that asks them to follow another god they don't Know. Deuteronomy 13: 1 to 11. How can an Arab introduce a new god to them and they will follow him? We never read anywhere in the Bible that ArabIans are brothers to Israelites. Jesus gave another warning, that by the fruits of that prophet we will know if he is true or false (Matthew 7:15 to 27). Muhammed life fell short of the scriptures standard of a prophet. The raid, rape, robbery, slavery, adultery, lies, deceit, etc disqualify him, apart from the fact that he never existed in the Bible. Eg, Jesus says whoever marries a woman that has been divorced commit adultery, and 600 yrs after, one Arab man disobeying this with impunity still considers himself a prophet of the Most High. Many Muslims say muhammed is d Holy Ghost, some say he is d prince of this world that Christ mentioned, some say he is a descendant of esau, some say he is from ishmael, etc. No single man can have two of these quality at the same timer, this shows how desperate Muslims are to get this man fix somewhere in the Bible. You don't need all these, face ur flawless quran, since no verse like it. Bible, is a complete book for Chris followers. Is the quran not complete?

ScreledrusMortm:


Lol! How? He didn't reject being called a prophet because that's what he was and that's what he is and that's what he ever will be. Muhammad was an Arab, read your bible, verse didn't say from amongst you or from your people, it says brethren, by tradition Isaac is the father of the Jews and Ishmael his brother is the traditional father of the Arabs, obviously this qualifies the Jews and Arabs as brothers.

I am that I am? Well.. Depends

Are these questions really negative or do you just choose to ignore the truth?

Jesus the son of Mary was a prophet, and one of the most exalted prophets of Allah the almighty, he (Allah) didn't beget and nor was he begotten, for far he is above having a son, the master of the day of Judgement.

Lol! Like the Quran says, not all JEWS are the same, but they as a people will always be against muslims, not Israelis, followers of Judaism. going by that logic you're trying to say muslims don't regard Isaac, Jesus etc... Who were JEWS but that's far from the truth. I think it's about the Jews, in this context it means the adherents of Judaism, who poisoned him during his time. And I curse those JEWS as well.

Jesus never cursed any man, even on the cross, while in agony.
Where was Arabs or Ishmaelites ever referred to as Israel brothers, A Bible verse please? Among your brethren? So, this can't be from among Israel as they have 12 tribes? Jesus came through the line tribe of Judah, not levi, where Moses came. Its among them. Not among the Arab, gentliles, ishmaelite, etc. What are the similarities between Moses and muhammed?

plainbibletruth:
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So you quote from the Bible to say there is a prophecy about Mohammed but when the same Bible says who that very prophecy refers to – Jesus Christ – you reject that and claim that it is Mohammed. What kind of deduction do you call that?

To you ‘some contemporary Muslim scholars’ claim is more important than clear statements of the Bible. How convenient!

Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Lol! That's what you claim claim explains this? The verse says the one Moses wrote about in the law, I am not denying Moses wrote about Jesus, infact there are some prophecies I speak of above that speak of both Jesus and Muhammad. The Dead Sea scrolls also speak of two holy men, now, that doesn't mean this is the exact prophesy the commentators were talking about. It can be any of the other prophecies I mentioned. Now to prove that Muhammad is indeed who this verse speaks of, well that's easy, it says a prophet like Moses did it not?

Lol!

Suppose I tell you that the word ‘Ijebu’ is derived from the biblical word ‘Jebusite’ and therefore the Ijebus are descended from the Jebusites, how about that for “good” argument like you have attempted in your post. So you can see how childish your ‘similarity’ and ‘proof’ sound.

The first issue you need to look at is this – the portions in the Bible usually quoted by Muslims to support Mohammed being prophesied is ADDRESSED to the Israelites. How then do you explain why God’s promise to and for Israel and their future will suddenly mysteriously turn out to be about a completely irrelevant person to the people of Israel – Mohammed who has nothing to do with them whatsoever?

Muhammad is not irrelevant, Muhammad was sent to all of mankind unlike jesus who was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, there are Israeli muslims, if others choose to reject him that's their fault, if you read the bible you'll see the Jews are indeed rebellious people.

The second is this: You are yet to clarify this: In what way was Mohammed distinctively like Moses in his Prophethood? After all that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.

Most of the time when I quote the Old Testament you christians admit Jesus is not Moses and he wasn't like Moses, so you don't follow him you follow Christ. If Jesus was like Moses, why so many differences in their actions? Okay, let's play it like this, what does jesus have in common with Moses apart from the fact that they're both Jewish? Who is more similar to Moses, Jesus or Muhammad?

Ovacoma:
you twist things to suite your Muhammad.

Do I really?

I think we both know that's not true. Of the many people, who is as glorious as Muhammad? Who better fits the bill? You should read his life story, he was an illiterate orphan but everyone knew him as the most honest person, that's why his first wife proposed to him. That's why Abu Bakr didn't need further explanation, once he heard of Muhammad call, he followed him.

Anyway, God didn't promise Israelites muhammed. Many people have claimed to find themselves prophesied in the Bible.

Should this not tell you that's Jesus is not God, don't evn give me that they are the same crap because many biblical verses prove that they are not. No wonder the Jews refused to fall for Paul's lies, well most of them.

There is one acid test, if others fail, to know a prophet of God. Moses told Israel never to follow any prophet that asks them to follow another god they don't Know.

Muhammad did not introduce any new god, Muhammads call was to go back to true monotheistic worship of the God of Isaac, the God abraham and Ishmael taught the ARAbS how to worship. Infact, if you knew Arabian history, you'd know that indeed their worship just like that of the Jews was monotheistic, until a man named Ama BN Luhai went to Syria and saw idol worship, so he brought idol worship to ARAbS, this is how the Arabs started to see Allah as a greater gods but one of many when indeed he is the only.

How can an Arab introduce a new god to them and they will follow him?

Isn't that too obvious? Do you need to be told?

We never read anywhere in the Bible that ArabIans are brothers to Israelites.

I beg to differ

Jesus gave another warning, that by the fruits of that prophet we will know if he is true or false (Matthew 7:15 to 27). Muhammed life fell short of the scriptures standard of a prophet.

The raid, rape, robbery, slavery, adultery, lies, deceit, etc disqualify him, apart from the fact that he never existed in the Bible. E

1 what raid?
2 rape? Seriously? Where did you get that from? Please I need a reason or a source or how on earth you got to this. How about you go to any Islamic country and see what happens to rapists.
3 The robberies were not for personal gain but to cripple the pagans who were gaining ground back then, planning to destroy th muslims.
4 lol! This is funny. Jesus saw slavery did he not? What did he say against it? Infact he condoned it. The laws of christian slavering are worse than that of islam, in fact we don't keep slaves for the sake of it, there was a reason, and the prophet said to treat them as if they were our brothers and to give them freedom whenever the required it. But the bible... That's just inhumanity! No wonder the hire men took no pity on your ancestors.


I don't think this is the but if it is, I'm sorry to say it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard, this alone should tell you how twisted your bible is, but I doubt anything like this exists.
g,

Jesus says whoever marries a woman that has been divorced commit adultery, and 600 yrs after

,

The reason for this is not desperation, it's because we are sure he's in the bible some where and since this bible of yours is soo.....there's sometimes speculation.

one Arab man disobeying this with impunity still considers himself a prophet of the Most High. Many Muslims say muhammed is d Holy Ghost, some say he is d prince of this world that Christ mentioned, some say he is a descendant of esau, some say he is from ishmael, etc. No single man can have two of these quality at the same timer, this shows how desperate Muslims are to get this man fix somewhere in the Bible. You don't need all these, face ur flawless quran, since no verse like it. Bible, is a complete book for Chris followers. Is the quran not complete?

The Quran is flawless, I quoted the bible because you said it's the only source you want.

Ovacoma:

Jesus never cursed any man, even on the cross, while in agony.
Where was Arabs or Ishmaelites ever referred to as Israel brothers, A Bible verse please? Among your brethren? So, this can't be from among Israel as they have 12 tribes? Jesus came through the line tribe of Judah, not levi, where Moses came. Its among them. Not among the Arab, gentliles, ishmaelite, etc. What are the similarities between Moses and muhammed?

Still arguing about whether the Arabs and Jews are brothers? Lol! Again, the verse did not say amongst your people, or amongst you or amongst the Israelites, it says brethren.

Now the similarities between Muhammad and Moses, simple.

Both Muhammad and Moses had a genetic natural birth, ie they both had two parents, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses grew up without both their parents, Jesus grew up with his mother.

Both Muhammad and Moses brought new laws, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses married and had children, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses fought wars, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses died natural deaths, Jesus is not dead yet, nor did he die back then. Although he will return, live a natural life and then die as well.

Both Muhammad and Moses were accepted by their people, Jesus was not fully accepted by his people.

Both Muhammad and Moses are buried in the ground, Jesus is not.

Both Muhammad and Moses were victorious over their enemies, according to you Jesus was not.

Both Muhammad and Moses led their people to a secret mass exodus with the enemies in pursuit, Jesus did not.

Is there any doubt that indeed Muhammad is the prophet like Moses this verse speaks of?

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ScreledrusMortm:


Still arguing about whether the Arabs and Jews are brothers? Lol! Again, the verse did not say amongst your people, or amongst you or amongst the Israelites, it says brethren.

Now the similarities between Muhammad and Moses, simple.

Both Muhammad and Moses had a genetic natural birth, ie they both had two parents, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses grew up without both their parents, Jesus grew up with his mother.

Both Muhammad and Moses brought new laws, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses married and had children, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses fought wars, Jesus did not.

Both Muhammad and Moses died natural deaths, Jesus is not dead yet, nor did he die back then. Although he will return, live a natural life and then die as well.

Both Muhammad and Moses were accepted by their people, Jesus was not fully accepted by his people.

Both Muhammad and Moses are buried in the ground, Jesus is not.

Both Muhammad and Moses were victorious over their enemies, according to you Jesus was not.

Both Muhammad and Moses led their people to a secret mass exodus with the enemies in pursuit, Jesus did not.

Is there any doubt that indeed Muhammad is the prophet like Moses this verse speaks of?

[/size]

ScreledrusMortm:


Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

Lol! That's what you claim claim explains this? The verse says the one Moses wrote about in the law, I am not denying Moses wrote about Jesus, infact there are some prophecies I speak of above that speak of both Jesus and Muhammad. The Dead Sea scrolls also speak of two holy men, now, that doesn't mean this is the exact prophesy the commentators were talking about. It can be any of the other prophecies I mentioned. Now to prove that Muhammad is indeed who this verse speaks of, well that's easy, it says a prophet like Moses did it not?

Lol!


Muhammad is not irrelevant, Muhammad was sent to all of mankind unlike jesus who was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, there are Israeli muslims, if others choose to reject him that's their fault, if you read the bible you'll see the Jews are indeed rebellious people.


Most of the time when I quote the Old Testament you christians admit Jesus is not Moses and he wasn't like Moses, so you don't follow him you follow Christ. If Jesus was like Moses, why so many differences in their actions? Okay, let's play it like this, what does jesus have in common with Moses apart from the fact that they're both Jewish? Who is more similar to Moses, Jesus or Muhammad?

Muslim always try to find whatever differences they can between Moses and Jesus so as to make it appear that it was not Jesus who was prophesied here. On the other hand, like you have done, Muslims ‘create’ likenesses between Moses and Mohammed so as to claim that Mohammed is the one referred to.
But note the following;
1. Deuteronomy 17:15 states in a similar way what Deut. 18:18 states: It says “…appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers.” (or ‘…from among your own brethren’). Notice it says “your own brethren” or “your own brothers”. Now, will you claim then that the Israelites could choose a king from outside Israel? So in the same way how will the coming prophet referred to now be from outside Israel? What sense does that make?
2. You can find probably hundreds of men who can fit into all the points you listed. So in what SPECIAL way was Mohammed outstandingly similar to Moses in his Prophethood? Since that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.
3. God's covenant with Israel NEVER extended to Ishmael or his descendants.

plainbibletruth:
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Muslim always try to find whatever differences they can between Moses and Jesus so as to make it appear that it was not Jesus who was prophesied here. On the other hand, like you have done, Muslims ‘create’ likenesses between Moses and Mohammed so as to claim that Mohammed is the one referred to.

Try? Lol! We hardly need to, it's quite obvious. Create? Is there any thing I mentioned here which you deem an innovation?

And again, I reiterate, Isaac is to Ishmael as the Jews are to the Arabs. Infact the term 'brethren' is used throughout the Old Testament. In general means 'a brother' used in the widest sense of literal relationships, and metaphorically, having an affinity or resemblance. Like how it was used to relate the Israelites to the Edomites. "me FROM AMONG YOUR OWN BROTHERS” (from Deuteronomy 18:15), icould very well refer to their cousins (why do you have terms like cousin brother, some even refer to their cousins simply as their brothers) also, AND, it could very well refer to the Israelites themselves. It is the other criteria in Deuteronomy 18:18 that will determine the identity of this prophet.
me FROM AMONG YOUR OWN BROTHERS” (from Deuteronomy 18:15), it could very well refer to their cousins also, AND, it could very well refer to the Israelites themselves. It is the other criteria in Deuteronomy 18:18 that will determine the identity of this prophet.

Simple test, go to Israel, see if you can separate the Jews from the Palestinians.
P

But note the following;
1. Deuteronomy 17:15 states in a similar way what Deut. 18:18 states: It says “…appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers.” (or ‘…from among your own brethren’). Notice it says “your own brethren” or “your own brothers”.

Did it say he will becoming from inside of Israel? Lol! Read the verse again.

Now, will you claim then that the Israelites could choose a king from outside Israel? So in the same way how will the coming prophet referred to now be from outside Israel? What sense does that make?

Please, who are these dozens of men? All the reasons I gave you aren't enough? Lol! Then at least accept Moses is not similar to Jesus.

2. You can find probably hundreds of men who can fit into all the points you listed. So in what SPECIAL way was Mohammed outstandingly similar to Moses in his Prophethood? Since that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.

Lmao! This is why Jews laugh at christians, you believe in a religion that supports Jewish superiority, lol! We do not believe the convenant of God belongs to the Jews alone, every nation was sent a prophet. Heck no wonder the Jews add rubbish like jesus callings Caanite woman a dog because she wasn't an Israelite. Yes indeed Jesus was sent as a prophet to the Jews. Like many other prophets before him, like he himself confirmed "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. So God was sent only to the Jews? It's simple, Jesus is not God, he is a prophet who was sent to the Israelites. Easy as that.

3. God's covenant with Israel NEVER extended to Ishmael or his descendants.

ScreledrusMortm:



Did it say he will becoming from inside of Israel?

So in what SPECIAL way was Mohammed outstandingly similar to Moses in his Prophethood? Since that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.

plainbibletruth:


So in what SPECIAL way was Mohammed outstandingly similar to Moses in his Prophethood? Since that is the claim of Muslims – that another PROPHET like Moses will come.

In what way is Muhammad not similar to Moses?

ScreledrusMortm:


In what way is Muhammad not similar to Moses?

There you go again like most of your other Muslim guys. Instead of providing direct answer to a simple question you run away. You cannot get the truth that way; never.

Let me just start with one areas where Moses as a PROPHET was way above and far different from Mohammed:
As a PROPHET Moses heard DIRECTLY from God; Mohammed never did. Rather he claimed to be dealing with angels. So in this regard Mohammed cannot be said to be a prophet LIKE Moses. There's no similarity here. Moses was in a class here that Mohammed never came near not to talk of equalling.

only Bible can answer Bible. Deuteronomy 18: 18. read john 1 :45, Acts 3: 22, Acts 7:37. you can introduce another interpretation to your own peril. consider this REVELATION 22:18 and 19.

plainbibletruth:

There you go again like most of your other Muslim guys. Instead of providing direct answer to a simple question you run away. You cannot get the truth that way; never.

No! I gave you answers, but apparently you weren't satisfied, I asked you that to see what sort of answer you wanted.

Let me just start with one areas where Moses as a PROPHET was way above and far different from Mohammed:
As a PROPHET Moses heard DIRECTLY from God; Mohammed never did. Rather he claimed to be dealing with angels. So in this regard Mohammed cannot be said to be a prophet LIKE Moses. There's no similarity here. Moses was in a class here that Mohammed never came near not to talk of equalling.

Lol! So? We muslims are aware and acknowledge that Moses spoke to God. Moses is given the title Kalimullah (Arabic: كليم الله, translit.: Kalīmullāh, Meaning: The one who talked to Allah) in Islam. But then, did Jesus ever talk to God? Remember your argument here is that Jesus is the prophet like Moses, so whatever you refute must agree with your claims.

Ovacoma:
only Bible can answer Bible. Deuteronomy 18: 18. read john 1 :45, Acts 3: 22, Acts 7:37. you can introduce another interpretation to your own peril. consider this REVELATION 22:18 and 19.

John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." Yes, Moses did speak of Jesus, this is probably the prophesy this verse speaks of.


Deuteronomy

"He said,

“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us;

he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousand of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand."
—Deuteronomy 33:2
Samau'al al-Maghribi referred to this verse also in his book as a prophecy of Muhammad. He said that Mount Sinai refers to Moses, Mount Seir "the Mount of Esau" refers to Jesus, and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael" refers to Muhammad.

Every Jewish prophesy predicted two prophets to come.

Acts 3:22

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Obviously speaks of Muhammad.

Acts 7:37


This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

More Muhammad.


Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Wow! Strong words, you christians are in trouble.

Muslims! They claim the Bible is corrupt and still claim their false prophet is in the same corrupt book. The answer to your question can still be found in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 34: 10-12).10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

11 In all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land,

12 And in all that mighty hand, and in all the great terror which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel. God never knew your false prophet face to face. Secondly, your false prophet never perfomed signs and wonders, he could not even heal ordinary headache( He died like a rat from food poisoning) and thirdly, He had no mighty power and could not perform one single miracle. So stop being delusional!!! The prophet like unto moses must have all these characteristics, and is no other than Jesus christ

ScreledrusMortm:


John 1:45
Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph." Yes, Moses did speak of Jesus, this is probably the prophesy this verse speaks of.


Deuteronomy

"He said,

“The Lord came from Sinai and dawned from Seir upon us;

he shone forth from Mount Paran; he came from the ten thousand of holy ones, with flaming fire at his right hand."
—Deuteronomy 33:2
Samau'al al-Maghribi referred to this verse also in his book as a prophecy of Muhammad. He said that Mount Sinai refers to Moses, Mount Seir "the Mount of Esau" refers to Jesus, and Mount Paran "the Mount of Ishmael" refers to Muhammad.

Every Jewish prophesy predicted two prophets to come.

Acts 3:22

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Obviously speaks of Muhammad.

Acts 7:37


This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

More Muhammad.


Revelation 22:18-19King James Version (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Wow! Strong words, you christians are in trouble.

you just took the bait without considering what it is! So this is the way you have been takin a verse from the Bible and say it is muhammed it refers to. This reminds me of hot debate by some Muslims while they were quoting Jesus saying 'the prince of this world cometh' as prophecy of muhammed. Not knowing that the prince of this world is d devil. Later, they all went into shameful silence, when (i guess) they understood. They are not interested in the study of the Bible, just a verse and they begin to yell out muhammed as this one just did. He even say 'two prophets'. Anyway, u need to go back and read the chapters where the verses i quoted come from, may be you can get senses before talking. Imagine a sane man reads john 1:45; Acts 3: 22, and Acts 7: 37, and the next word is muhammed. Read all the chapters, the previous and the next, if necessary, to know who is speaking, to whom , and about who. Somebody just dashed the all the hopes of those who claim Deuteronomy 18:18 refers to someone outside Israel as they interprete 'among their brethren' as just any body, even an anti-jewish Arab prophet that came from God knows where. The verse reads 'I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren...' . Compare that verse with chapter 17:15 'Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee:..' my question now is, has Israel ever chosen/set an Arab, ishmaelite, or any one not from their tribe over them as king? You can still go ahead to continue the twisting/ wrest the scriptures as 2Peter 3: 16 says.
When will all these lies to put a bandit in the Bible as Prophet stop? REVELATION 22: 18 !!!
@plainbibletruth, i acknowledge you, thanks.

Ovacoma:
you just took the bait without considering what it is! So this is the way you have been takin a verse from the Bible and say it is muhammed it refers to. This reminds me of hot debate by some Muslims while they were quoting Jesus saying 'the prince of this world cometh' as prophecy of muhammed. Not knowing that the prince of this world is d devil. Later, they all went into shameful silence, when (i guess) they understood. They are not interested in the study of the Bible, just a verse and they begin to yell out muhammed as this one just did. He even say 'two prophets'. Anyway, u need to go back and read the chapters where the verses i quoted come from, may be you can get senses before talking. Imagine a sane man reads john 1:45; Acts 3: 22, and Acts 7: 37, and the next word is muhammed. Read all the chapters, the previous and the next, if necessary, to know who is speaking, to whom , and about who. Somebody just dashed the all the hopes of those who claim Deuteronomy 18:18 refers to someone outside Israel as they interprete 'among their brethren' as just any body, even an anti-jewish Arab prophet that came from God knows where. The verse reads 'I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren...' . Compare that verse with chapter 17:15 'Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee:..' my question now is, has Israel ever chosen/set an Arab, ishmaelite, or any one not from their tribe over them as king? You can still go ahead to continue the twisting/ wrest the scriptures as 2Peter 3: 16 says.
When will all these lies to put a bandit in the Bible as Prophet stop? REVELATION 22: 18 !!!
@plainbibletruth, i acknowledge you, thanks.

Thank you! I appreciate it.

ScreledrusMortm:


Lol! So? We muslims are aware and acknowledge that Moses spoke to God. Moses is given the title Kalimullah (Arabic: كليم الله, translit.: Kalīmullāh, Meaning: The one who talked to Allah) in Islam. But then, did Jesus ever talk to God? Remember your argument here is that Jesus is the prophet like Moses, so whatever you refute must agree with your claims.

Stop going round in circles!!

Your question was:

'In what way is Muhammad not similar to Moses?'

And I showed you clearly one major way but instead of admitting that AS PROPHET Moses was in a greater class than Mohammed you are now bringing in Jesus. 

Leave Jesus out for now. Face your own question. If you don't focus on one issue at a time how can you get it? I have NOT even mentioned Jesus yet in my response to you on this issue; if I do you'll be lost. So leave him out for now. 

Do you see the fallacy here of Muslims equating Mohammed with Moses? They don't even come close. From your own admission even your Quran acknowledges that he spoke with God. And Mohammed NEVER spoke with God. 

Can you equate someone who speaks directly with a President and one who hears about him from third parties or reads about him in the newspaper? Not to talk of a person having a direct access to God?

Use simple logic my friend and you will see your error. And this only just one way I've pointed out. 

So I say again that there is no similarity in this regard between Moses as a PROPHET and Mohammed. None. Yes or no?

plainbibletruth:


Stop going round in circles!!

Lol! Looks who's talking.

Your question was:


And I showed you clearly one major way but instead of admitting that AS PROPHET Moses was in a greater class than Mohammed you are now bringing in Jesus. 

Leave Jesus out for now. Face your own question. If you don't focus on one issue at a time how can you get it? I have NOT even mentioned Jesus yet in my response to you on this issue; if I do you'll be lost. So leave him out for now. 

Do you see the fallacy here of Muslims equating Mohammed with Moses? They don't even come close. From your own admission even your Quran acknowledges that he spoke with God. And Mohammed NEVER spoke with God. 


Can you equate someone who speaks directly with a President and one who hears about him from third parties or reads about him in the newspaper? Not to talk of a person having a direct access to God?

Use simple logic my friend and you will see your error. And this only just one way I've pointed out. 

So I say again that there is no similarity in this regard between Moses as a PROPHET and Mohammed. None. Yes or no?

Lol! Then I acknowledged to you that Moses indeed had a unique gift. But it doesn't suit your point here, the question we've been asking is who is the prophet similar to Moses, or are you saying Moses is greater than Jesus as well? Because which ever point you make has to be a similarity that both jesus and Moses share and so far you have none, so who's going around in circles here? Lol, your jokes are quite refreshing though. You see part of your naivety is how you see your god in a presidents light or a mans light which is honestly quite funny. So yes, no similarity between Kallimullah and Muhammad, nor is there between he and Jesus in this regard.

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ScreledrusMortm:

Lol! Looks who's talking.

Lol! Then I acknowledged to you that Moses indeed had a unique gift. But it doesn't suit your point here, the question we've been asking is who is the prophet similar to Moses, or are you saying Moses is greater than Jesus as well? Because which ever point you make has to be a similarity that both jesus and Moses share and so far you have none, so who's going around in circles here? Lol, your jokes are quite refreshing though. You see part of your naivety is how you see your god in a presidents light or a mans light which is honestly quite funny. So yes, no similarity between Kallimullah and Muhammad, nor is there between he and Jesus in this regard.

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Obviously you like to amuse yourself. That's good. But that should not make you misplace the seriousness of the matter. 

Look at the title of the thread: 
"Its Obvious That Mohammed Exists In Bible"

From that title the OP and the rest of you are trying lamely to prove that the 'Prophet' whom Moses predicted will come after him is Mohammed. You then went on to use so called 'similarities' that can fit between Moses and a thousand people to justify your pitiable position. 

This was when you started your list with:

Now the similarities between Muhammad and Moses, simple.

Both Muhammad and Moses had a genetic natural birth, ie they both had two parents, Jesus did not.

And after the list you said:

"Is there any doubt that indeed Muhammad is the prophet like Moses this verse speaks of?"

For goodness sake don't millions of people have natural birth and both parents? How does that and the other listed points then become UNIQUENESS that will make you come to the conclusion you arrived at?

In all these you all ignored the issue of PROPHETHOOD. That should be the focus. 

In his office as a 'prophet' what would make you say that Mohammed qualified as the person Moses spoke about? What did he do AS A PROPHET that qualifies him to fit that position? Like I said earlier, there is NOTHING. 

The plain truth is this: Mohammed Does Not Exist In The Bible.