CryptDarpick:


Again it's my duty to defend islam, if you blindly reject the truth claiming rubbish like Taqiya, then you have yourself a problem.

Back then there were different tribes in Arabia and they all had their affiliations to a deity. Under Islamic rule, since those tribesmen don't pay zakat, they are required to pay Jizya, which is a sort of tax. Failing this condition intentionally means they're intentionally going against the Islamic government and muslims and have therefore dis validated the treaty which allows them to live in peace with muslims, making them hostile.

iliyande:

No wonder Boko Haram boys are executing tax collection in Nigeria. Taqqiya

iliyande:

Your duty to defend dumb Muhammad hahaha

CryptDarpick:


Sahih International: Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment. 33:57

iliyande:

Is defending allah like Boko Haram an allah world? Islamic religion is very funny religion. Haha

CryptDarpick:


It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him.On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: every time it shows abatement, We shall increase from them the fierceness of the Fire. (Surah Al-Isra’, 97)

iliyande:

For your information, I serve the living God in Jesus, no matter what Taqiya you use. No sensible human being will follow islam after all the crime they are perpetrating. Beheading, child abuse, slaughtering etc is Muslim second name. Sorry brother for this is the end of the matter. Muhammed is not in the same Bible because he is not a prophet neither is he anything to be included in the bible. Sorry but a bitter truth

CryptDarpick:


Quran 4:159

Muhammad Sarwar: There will be no one among the People of the Book who will not believe (a belief of no value) in him (Jesus) before their deaths. On the Day of Judgment, (Jesus) will testify against them.

Quran 5:116

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

alakaman:
This is clearly a Muslim vs. Christian debate. I believe it is quite different from Truth vs. Falshood debate. To my mind, the theological abstractions of our muslim brothers seem illusive and far-fetched. But there are, in fact , some contradictions and inaccuracies in our Bible. 1. Gal. 3:16 says the 'seed' that was promised to Abraham was in the singular, so that the 'seed' can be Jesus Christ. But in Genesis, all promises made to Abraham was to his DESCENDANTS , not DESCENDANTS. 2 . In Mk. 2:25, 26, Jesus is quoted as saying it was Abiathar who was the high priest when David took the shewbread. But according to 1 Sam. 21:1-6; 22:11-23, it was Ahimelech that was the high priest. 3. In Acts 7:15, 16, Stephen is quoted as saying Abraham bought a cave in Shechem. But according to Gen. 33:18, 19, it was Jacob that bought a place in Shechem, not Abraham. According to Gen. 23:9-20; 25:9; 49:30 and 50:23, it was in Machpelah, not Shechem, that Abraham bought land. Truth is truth, we do not need to accept it for it to be what it is.

CryptDarpick:


Some people prefer to ignore your blind persistence.


Useless to our discussion.


Useless to our discussion.


What error? What discrepancy? First of all if taqiya is what you speak of taqiya is a Shia word. Secondly istidrar is a principle that allows one to renounce God outwardly when he fears for his life I.e compelled. Using lies to turn someone into your faith is actually what Paul did, nothing like that in Islam.



That's because Muhsin khan likes to interpret verses in his translations.


You do know there's a difference between translation and interpretation right? You should read the footnote comment by the writers. Where progeny and prophet hood is involved obviously based on our understanding of the Quran we know Ishmael is involved.


. 
Is there any muslim who interprets it differently? The book means the book of law, there's only one valid one in the eyes of God at a time, like the Torah during the time of Moses was the book or scripture (I don't think this has a plural) and now the Quran is the book.


Refer to the explanation above. The three books weren't sent at once, each sent at the time where it's the only valid law. Like the Torah was the book during Moses time and now the Quran is the book.


Why does he need to be specifically mentioned when what was implied to every muslim reader is quite obvious?



Joke?


[b
Lol! Really? Do you really believe that?

Okay, interpret this verse for me using your logic.

Noble Verse 35:24 "Verily We (Allah) have sent thee in truth, as a bearer of glad tiding, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past).

"Why does he need to be specifically mentioned when what was implied to every muslim reader is quite obvious?"

plainbibletruth:
[size=5pt][/size]

I believe that those reading this thread with objectivity and a little common sense will understand the issue before us better. 
 
Let me take you up on this: What is 'blind persistence'?

Apparently you would prefer me to say you're right even when it is clear that your arguments are lopsided. 

The Quran states that it is CLEAR for all to understand. So where is your own "understanding" from? Is it the understanding that wants to tell people that you can 'fix' the name of Ishmael into a portion of the Quran where it does not appear? That to me is not understanding: It is being mischievous. 

Anyone who in the name of interpretation ignores the immediate context and then interpolated a matter, or in case the name of Ishmael, is not interpreting. Such a person is being dubious.  

An "understanding" that disregards the directly stated progeny of Abraham in a verse, refuses to attach prophethood to that lineage and then decides to put the tags on another person not stated in that verse is, to say the least, a warped understanding. 

If you claim that

you have not shown us clearly what should make a 'Muslim reader' IMPLY something from a verse that is not there but still turns out to be "quite obvious". If something is 'quite obvious' should it be implied?

Another truth is this: the Quran to a large extent cannot be understood without all these additions to verses here and there. As result many Muslims are unable, on their own, to understand the Quran. They then have to rely on their imams for interpretations and have to accept whatever is presented. Maybe you swallowed that kind of bait here. 

So another question for you guys is this: If the Quran puts out itself to be clear to all, how come it still requires all these additions and interpolations and 'implied' words for it to be understood?

Your last quote is: 
Useless to our discussion.
You are yet to fully understand one verse and now bringing in another. Understand one first before another. 

You have simply not succeeded in showing that Mohammed is in the Bible because you need to IMPLY it for him to be there. You have also not been able to prove that Ishmael is in the verse we have been looking at because it takes your kind of 'understanding' to get it; that's why you stated that "Where progeny and prophet hood is involved obviously based on our understanding of the Quran we know Ishmael is involved."

CryptDarpick:


I brought the last verse so you can interpret using your logic and see what youll have!

Again that verse is quite obvious, anyone familiar with the quran or its teachings arrives at that simple conclusion. Progeny prophethood book! Its quite simple from where im standing!

alakaman:
This is clearly a Muslim vs. Christian debate. I believe it is quite different from Truth vs. Falshood debate. To my mind, the theological abstractions of our muslim brothers seem illusive and far-fetched. But there are, in fact , some contradictions and inaccuracies in our Bible. 1. Gal. 3:16 says the 'seed' that was promised to Abraham was in the singular, so that the 'seed' can be Jesus Christ. But in Genesis, all promises made to Abraham was to his DESCENDANTS , not DESCENDANTS.

2 . In Mk. 2:25, 26, Jesus is quoted as saying it was Abiathar who was the high priest when David took the shewbread. But according to 1 Sam. 21:1-6; 22:11-23, it was Ahimelech that was the high priest.

3. In Acts 7:15, 16, Stephen is quoted as saying Abraham bought a cave in Shechem. But according to Gen. 33:18, 19, it was Jacob that bought a place in Shechem, not Abraham. According to Gen. 23:9-20; 25:9; 49:30 and 50:23, it was in Machpelah, not Shechem, that Abraham bought land. Truth is truth, we do not need to accept it for it to be what it is.

CryptDarpick:


And We bestowed on him [Ibrahim (Abraham)], Ishaque (Isaac) and Ya'qub (Jacob), and ordained among his offspring Prophethood and the Book [i.e. the Taurat (Torah) (to Musa - Moses), the Injeel (Gospel) (to 'Iesa - Jesus), the Quran (to Muhammad SAW), all from the offspring of Ibrahim (Abraham)], and We granted him his reward in this world, and verily, in the Hereafter he is indeed among the righteous..

malvisguy212:
you are a great twister and soo many deception in your post.

Surah 29:27: And (as for Abraham),
We bestowed upon him Isaac and
(Isaac’s son) Jacob, and caused
prophethood and revelation to
continue among his offspring.


This is the covenant of prophethood, two brother cannot shere the same blessing, if you include ishmael then you must include ESAU, esau even stand the chance than ishmael because ishmael was the half brother of Isaac BUT esau was the brother of Jacob(same mother) BUT Isaac did not give the blessing to esau because Jacob had already received the blessing. Now compared it with ishmael who was not even the full brother of Isaac. The truth is that two brother cannot shere the same blessing.

If Allah intends to include Ishmael, his name would be placed before Isaac, as he was older than Isaac by fourteen years. But as it can be noted, Surah 29:27 completely omits any reference to Ishmael, raising the question as to why he was totally ignored if he was as important as Muslims claim him to be.

If Muhammad is a descendant of
Ishmael, then he cannot be a descendant of Isaac at the same time,
given the fact that Ishmael and Isaac are half-brothers. Thus, it is evident that
Muhammad is not a descendant of Isaac. As Muhammad was neither a Jew nor a descendent of Isaac and Jacob,this
automatically disqualifies him as a
prophet of God.

Further evidence proof muhammed is a false prophet:

Surah 19:49: So, when he had
withdrawn from them and that which
they were worshipping beside Allah.
We gave him Isaac and Jacob. Each
of them We made a Prophet.
(Pickthall)

Surah 21:72-73: And We bestowed
upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a
grandson. Each of them We made
righteous. And We made them chiefs
who guide by Our command, and We
inspired in them the doing of good
deeds and the right establishment of
worship and the giving of alms and
they were worshippers of Us (alone).
(Pickthall)

Once again, we can note that Ishmael is
not mention in the above Qur’anic
verses, whereas recognition is given to
both Isaac and Jacob. Why did not Allah
include Ishmael in these verses since
Muslims claim that he is also a prophet
of Allah?

CryptDarpick:


Again it's my duty to defend islam, if you blindly reject the truth claiming rubbish like Taqiya, then you have yourself a problem.

Back then there were different tribes in Arabia and they all had their affiliations to a deity. Under Islamic rule, since those tribesmen don't pay zakat, they are required to pay Jizya, which is a sort of tax. Failing this condition intentionally means they're intentionally going against the Islamic government and muslims and have therefore dis validated the treaty which allows them to live in peace with muslims, making them hostile.

plainbibletruth:

I trust that I have been able, with those few words of mine, to give you beyond reasonable doubt, a clearer understanding of that portion of your Quran. 

malvisguy212:
you are a great twister and soo many deception in your post.

Surah 29:27: And (as for Abraham),
We bestowed upon him Isaac and
(Isaac’s son) Jacob, and caused
prophethood and revelation to
continue among his offspring.


This is the covenant of prophethood, two brother cannot shere the same blessing, if you include ishmael then you must include ESAU, esau even stand the chance than ishmael because ishmael was the half brother of Isaac BUT esau was the brother of Jacob(same mother) BUT Isaac did not give the blessing to esau because Jacob had already received the blessing. Now compared it with ishmael who was not even the full brother of Isaac. The truth is that two brother cannot shere the same blessing.

If Allah intends to include Ishmael, his name would be placed before Isaac, as he was older than Isaac by fourteen years. But as it can be noted, Surah 29:27 completely omits any reference to Ishmael, raising the question as to why he was totally ignored if he was as important as Muslims claim him to be.

If Muhammad is a descendant of
Ishmael, then he cannot be a descendant of Isaac at the same time,
given the fact that Ishmael and Isaac are half-brothers. Thus, it is evident that
Muhammad is not a descendant of Isaac. As Muhammad was neither a Jew nor a descendent of Isaac and Jacob,this
automatically disqualifies him as a
prophet of God.

Further evidence proof muhammed is a false prophet:

Surah 19:49: So, when he had
withdrawn from them and that which
they were worshipping beside Allah.
We gave him Isaac and Jacob. Each
of them We made a Prophet.
(Pickthall)

Surah 21:72-73: And We bestowed
upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a
grandson. Each of them We made
righteous. And We made them chiefs
who guide by Our command, and We
inspired in them the doing of good
deeds and the right establishment of
worship and the giving of alms and
they were worshippers of Us (alone).
(Pickthall)

Once again, we can note that Ishmael is
not mention in the above Qur’anic
verses, whereas recognition is given to
both Isaac and Jacob. Why did not Allah
include Ishmael in these verses since
Muslims claim that he is also a prophet
of Allah?

malvisguy212:
what do you have to say in here? https://www.nairaland.com/2381817/contradictions-analyzed-bible-quran
And
https://www.nairaland.com/2386060/deutoronumy-18-18-analyst

malvisguy212:
you are a great twister and soo many deception in your post.

Surah 29:27: And (as for Abraham),
We bestowed upon him Isaac and
(Isaac’s son) Jacob, and caused
prophethood and revelation to
continue among his offspring.

This is the covenant of prophethood, two brother cannot shere the same blessing, if you include ishmael then you must include ESAU, esau even stand the chance than ishmael because ishmael was the half brother of Isaac BUT esau was the brother of Jacob(same mother) BUT Isaac did not give the blessing to esau because Jacob had already received the blessing. Now compared it with ishmael who was not even the full brother of Isaac. The truth is that two brother cannot shere the same blessing.

If Allah intends to include Ishmael, his name would be placed before Isaac, as he was older than Isaac by fourteen years. But as it can be noted, Surah 29:27 completely omits any reference to Ishmael, raising the question as to why he was totally ignored if he was as important as Muslims claim him to be.

If Muhammad is a descendant of
Ishmael, then he cannot be a descendant of Isaac at the same time,
given the fact that Ishmael and Isaac are half-brothers. Thus, it is evident that
Muhammad is not a descendant of Isaac. As Muhammad was neither a Jew nor a descendent of Isaac and Jacob,this
automatically disqualifies him as a
prophet of God.

Further evidence proof muhammed is a false prophet:

Surah 19:49: So, when he had
withdrawn from them and that which
they were worshipping beside Allah.
We gave him Isaac and Jacob. Each
of them We made a Prophet.
(Pickthall)

Surah 21:72-73: And We bestowed
upon him Isaac, and Jacob as a
grandson. Each of them We made
righteous. And We made them chiefs
who guide by Our command, and We
inspired in them the doing of good
deeds and the right establishment of
worship and the giving of alms and
they were worshippers of Us (alone).
(Pickthall)

Once again, we can note that Ishmael is
not mention in the above Qur’anic
verses, whereas recognition is given to
both Isaac and Jacob. Why did not Allah
include Ishmael in these verses since
Muslims claim that he is also a prophet
of Allah?

CryptDarpick:


Its been a long time malvis, mr i saw the devil and rebuked aka mr jesus told me he loves me! The usual recycling, nothing more. I think the idfference you noted between ishmael and his other siblings to isaac is a good point to consider. Thats if malvis has the ability to consider, but i bid you farewelll, for now.

iliyande:


Don't mind him. For better understanding of the guy just read taqiyya in islam

malvisguy212:
have we debate before? Is this your defence? Ability to consider what ?

CryptDarpick:

I dont know why you christians dwell on this! Even if ishmael wasnt mentioned here you have no point, prophet hood and books were indeed given to the bloodline of isaac. There are verses that speak solely about ishmael as a progeny and some that concentrate on isaac and his descendants And i didnt twist anything, thats muhsin khans translation.

Says the bible.. Why should i include esau, its a quranic verse, i dont think esau is even mentioned in the quran. Ishmael on the other hand is a prophet.



Just asserts isaac was a prophet as well, and so was his son. Probably because of the curiosity about whether or not isaac was a prophet since ishmael was the child who almost got sacrificed.



You see malvis your thinking has always been diminished, whose progeny was the verse speaking of, that of isaac or Abraham?



This speaks of the jews dumbo, ishmael wasnt sent to the jews, it speaks of the jews after the calf misdemeanor.



So he gave isaac and his grandson prophet and gave them chiefs? So? We believe that? Does the verse say it was exclusive to them? It speaks of isaac and his grandson!



Malvis youve never been a very smart person, ive always seen you as a clown really. The verses either speak of the jews, or just assert that isaac and his grandson were indeed prophets. Nothing useful here, just your usual recyclings.

[2.132] And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.

[2.133] Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit.

"And (remember) Ishmael, Idris, and Zulkifl, all (men) of constancy and patience". 2:85

37
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to themselves.

Sahih International: Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him." 3-84

Sahih International
And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], "Worship Allah and avoid Taghut." And among them were those whom Allah guided, and among them were those upon whom error was [deservedly] decreed. So proceed through the earth and observe how was the end of the deniers. 16:36

Stop slaving yourselves to jewish propaganda. A whole religion based on a jewish farce.

iliyande:


From where are you quoting? Quran

malvisguy212:
did you say ishmael was a prophet? Including Isaac? What was ishmael message? The quran indicate every prophet was given a message, highlight ishmael message. All what you wrote is wrong, very wrong. I am busy now, I will still come back to this post.

CryptDarpick:



Sahih International: They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.
5:17

iliyande:

You this guy, must you involve Muhammad in the bible?

Emusan:


Are you for real?

Which one did your brother use in his quotation the real one locked away somewhere or the revised one I'm using and where did he see this original one that Christians don't have?

In case you forget NOTE : All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

So you mean King James Version is the real one.

alansary0064:
PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh) IN THE BIBLE
by Dr. Zakir Naik
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is
like Moses (pbuh):
i) Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus
(pbuh) was born miraculously without any male
intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an
3:42-47]
ii) Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh)
according to the Bible did not marry nor had
children.
iii) Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been
raised up alive. (4:157-158)
Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of
Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews.
Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac
(pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail
(pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac
(pbuh).
NOTE : All quotations of the Bible are taken from
the King James Version.