₦airaland Forum

Oluwagreat:
I couldn't but notice dat dis verses are missing frm ur write-up:..
Proverbs 23:29-35English Standard Version (ESV)

29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow?
Who has strife? Who has complaining?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who tarry long over wine;
those who go to try mixed wine.
31 Do not look at wine when it is red,
when it sparkles in the cup
and goes down smoothly.
32 In the end it bites like a serpent
and stings like an adder.
33 Your eyes will see strange things,
and your heart utter perverse things.
34 You will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
like one who lies on the top of a mast.[a]
35 “They struck me,” you will say,[b] “but I was not hurt;
they beat me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake?
I must have another drink.”

AND THIS

Ephesians 5:18New International Version (NIV)

18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,

LEGALAide:
my brother, I cited biblical authorities, you now want to counter the argument just like that.
No authorities?
Argue like a learned person nah.
Smh for some people.

saintkel:
Give wine to him who wants to perish

LEGALAide:
...and money to the fool.

saintkel:
I am quoting scriptures for ya

totoakins:
why would they call Jesus a drunkard if he only took water.

Stylaay:
My brother chop knuckle God gave us alcohol to serve as a social lubricant. Alcohol is a stabilizing factor for me if I don't drink my beer na psychiatric get me. One bottle for you ma guy I dey use some bottles of ace roots now

LEGALAide:
Which kin scripture be that?

saintkel:
proverbs 31 vs 6

Image123:
For those who are too inebriated to see clearly that taking gulder,33 and alomo is not a fruit of the Spirit or a revelation of rhema, please find time to go through the well detailed study in this book.
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/1.html

LEGALAide:
SORRY...MR. Now how did the Bible call other sins sins?
By saying: "it's not good for kings to fornicate"?, or "it's not good for kings to kill"? Or "it's not right for kings to steal"?
Some persons could be really funny.
The Bible calls a sin a sin.
Like thou shall not kill.
Thou shall not commit adultery.
Ever heard of "thou shall not drink wine/alcohol?"
Reason Please my brother!

GRACEGLORY:
I used to "reason" like you do and advised, but it only got me confused like it's doing you now. I was doing dope, and local gin-alcohol, dope wrapped up in psalm 23 soaked in gin, while reading, studying Scriptures, and I thought I knew what the Scriptures were saying. I'd argue the Scriptures with the saints thinking they were blind to the truth, not knowing I was the blind one to have been reasoning the word of God. Op, the word of God is beyond our reasoning faculty, but within our spirit faculty. We can't reason God, when we try to do that, the letters (the scriptural alphabets) slay us, but the spiritual insight into the word of God, gives us life.
Stop reasoning what the word says, seek insight into what the word says, then you shall know the truth, you shall be free...

Why not see LEVITICUS 10:9 which says ... Thou shalt not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, and thy sons with thee ...
Bless.

LEGALAide:
WINE: GOOD OR EVIL?

(What does the Bible teach?)

answers from the Bible



The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic "winam", an early borrowing from the Latin "vinum".

Wine is an alcoholic beverage made from fermented grapes or other fruits. Fermentation in wine making turns grape juice (or other fruits) into an alcoholic beverage. During fermentation, yeasts transform sugars present in the juice into ethanol and carbon dioxide (as a by-product). The natural chemical balance of grapes lets them ferment without the addition of sugars, acids, enzymes, water, or other nutrients. Yeast consumes the sugars in the grapes and converts them into alcohol and carbon dioxide. Different varieties of grapes and strains of yeasts produce different styles of wine. The well-known variations result from the very complex interactions between the biochemical development of the fruit, reactions involved in fermentation, terroir and subsequent appellation, along with human intervention in the overall process.
Wines made from produce besides grapes are usually named after the product from which they are produced (for example, rice wine, pomegranate wine, apple wine and elderberry wine) and are generically called fruit wine.

One of the first mentions of wine in Scripture is by Melchizedek, priest of the Most High God at Salem (Jerusalem) during the time of Abram, whose name was later changed to Abraham. Melchizedek “brought forth bread and wine”for Abram and his companions - Genesis 14:18. The Hebrew word translated wine in Genesis 14:18 is yayin. This word is used over 130 times in the Hebrew Bible to mean fermented wine, not grape juice.

Genesis 9:21 says that Noah drank too much yayin and became drunk. Lot also became drunk on this beverage - Genesis 19:30-36, and so did Nabal - 1 Samuel 25:36.
Nevertheless, God told his people to enjoy yayin at the yearly festivals - Deuteronomy 14:26. In addition to using wine as a beverage, God also commanded the Levitical priests to include in the sacrifices a portion of wine(yayin) as a drink offering - Exodus 29:40. A blessing of wine was prophesied as a heritage to the chosen people in Genesis 27:28: “May God give you heaven’s dew and earth’s richness — an abundance of grain and new wine[tirosh].”
The Hebrew word tirosh,meaning “new wine,” is used in 38 places in the Old Testament. People sometimes conclude that this word means grape juice, or fresh-pressed juice of the vine. However, Hosea 4:11 states: “Old wine [yayin] and new wine [tirosh] take away their understanding.” Grape juice could not have this effect.
These scriptures make it clear that there can be a right and a wrong use of wine.

Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol. Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3;Deuteronomy 29:6 ; ...encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
The Bible says that God gave wine to make men glad - Psalm 104:15.
What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness - Ephesians 5:18. The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects - Proverbs 23:29-35. Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything - 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19. Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience - 1 Corinthians 8:9-13. In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God - 1 Corinthians 10:31.

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion - John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29.
John the Baptist did not drink wine (oinos in the Greek) or any other form of alcohol because it was prophesied that he wouldn’t (being a Nazarite) - Luke 1:15. However, Jesus Christ did drink oinos (wine) - Matthew 11:19: "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”; Luke 7:34. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day. He drank wine in moderation.
In ancient times it was normally diluted with water for drinking, and was one of the principal beverages at that time — as it is today.

Jesus gave a parable involving the fermenting process of oinos in Matthew 9:17. At that time, instead of having metal or glass bottles to enclose wine, the skins of animals were used. The fermentation of the wine could burst an old skin, but it would not break a new stretchable skin.

In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today.

THE QUESTION PEOPLE KEEP ASKING IS: "DID JESUS TURN WATER INTO WINE OR GRAPE JUICE"?

John chapter 2 records Jesus performing a miracle at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. The point of the account is summarized in John 2:11, "He thus revealed His glory, and His disciples put their faith in Him." Usually, though, when this passage is studied, a side issue becomes the main issue. Did Jesus transform the water into wine (fermented, alcoholic) or into grape juice (non-alcoholic)?

Throughout the passage, the Greek word translated "wine" is oinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used in Ephesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage of oinos in 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.

Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs, “Drink your wine with a merry heart.”
Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.”
Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing.
Isaiah 55:1 encourages, “Yes, come buy wine and milk…”
From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful - Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19. Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

A second related argument is that by creating alcoholic wine, Jesus would have been promoting drunkenness, which the Bible clearly identifies as sinful. This is not a valid argument. Was Jesus promoting gluttony when He multiplied the fishes and loaves far beyond what the people needed? Of course not. Creating a substance that can be abused does not make one responsible when another person foolishly chooses to abuse it. Jesus creating alcoholic wine was in no sense encouraging drunkenness.

The belief that Jesus created alcoholic wine is definitely more in agreement with the context and the definition/usage of oinos. The primary reasons for interpreting it as grape juice, that alcohol is inherently sinful or that the creation of alcohol would have been encouraging drunkenness, are unbiblical and invalid. There is simply no good biblical reason to understand John:2 as anything other than Jesus performing an amazing miracle by turning water into real wine.

Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness an addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from - Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12.
Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sinful. However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others, it is often best for a Christian to abstain from drinking alcohol.

There is only one group of people who are explicitly told in the Bible to never drink wine/alcohol, and that is the Nazirites - Numbers 6:1–4. Jesus was not a Nazirite; He was a “Nazarene,” a native of the town of Nazareth - Luke 18:37. Jesus never took the Nazirite vow.

Christ’s first miracle of turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana almost certainly involved a fermented beverage. According to Jewish wedding tradition, fermented wine was always served at weddings; if Jesus had provided only grape juice, the master of the feast would have complained. Instead, he said the wine was better than what was previously served; it was apparently a “fine” wine - John 2:10–11.

The Greek word for “drunk” in John 2:10 is methuo, which means “to be drunken” or intoxicated. It is the same word used in Acts 2:15 where Peter is defending the apostles against accusations of drunkenness. The testimony of the master of the feast is that the wine Christ produced was able to intoxicate.

Of course, just because Jesus turned water into wine doesn’t prove that He drank the wine at the wedding, but it would have been normal for Him to do so. What it does prove is that Jesus doesn’t condemn drinking wine any more than He condemns eating bread. Sinful people abuse what is not inherently sinful. Bread and wine are not sinful, but gluttony and drunkenness are - Proverbs 23:2; Ephesians 5:18.


In Luke 7:33–44, Jesus said, “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!". In verse 33 Jesus is making a contrast between John the Baptist’s “drinking no wine” and His own practice. Jesus goes on to say the religious leaders accused Him (falsely) of being a drunkard. Jesus was never a drunkard, any more than He was a glutton. He lived a completely sinless life - 1 Peter 2:22; however Luke 7 strongly suggests that Jesus did indeed partake of alcoholic wine.

The Passover celebration would also have commonly included fermented wine. The Scriptures use the term “fruit of the vine” - Matthew 26:27–29; Mark 14:23–25; Luke 22:17–18. Of course, Christ participated in drinking from the Passover cup - Mark 14:23).

All Christians would agree drunkenness is sinful, and Christ Himself warns against it - Luke 12:45. However, a biblical view of wine is that it is given as something to delight in - Psalm 104:14–15. There are plenty of warnings against alcohol abuse, in texts like Proverbs 20:1, because sinful men are more likely to abuse wine than to use it in moderation. Those who try to use Jesus’ probable use of wine to excuse their drunkenness should heed the warning in Luke 12:45. Christians who want to keep a biblical view of drinking wine should either drink in moderation, never to drunkenness, or abstain totally.
The Lord be with you.

- O.S. Emejulu

CC Lalasticlala

GRACEGLORY:
I used to "reason" like you do and advised, but it only got me confused like it's doing you now. I was doing dope, and local gin-alcohol, dope wrapped up in psalm 23 soaked in gin, while reading, studying Scriptures, and I thought I knew what the Scriptures were saying. I'd argue the Scriptures with the saints thinking they were blind to the truth, not knowing I was the blind one to have been reasoning the word of God. Op, the word of God is beyond our reasoning faculty, but within our spirit faculty. We can't reason God, when we try to do that, the letters (the scriptural alphabets) slay us, but the spiritual insight into the word of God, gives us life.
Stop reasoning what the word says, seek insight into what the word says, then you shall know the truth, you shall be free...

Why not see LEVITICUS 10:9 which says ... Thou shalt not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, and thy sons with thee ...
Bless.

Image123:
Don't mind that fellow. No real evangelist or believer delivered from the power of alcohol will take him seriously.

Dentux:
Op just stick with what u belive.
The word of God is clearly beyond human understanding

California30:
What did Jesus turn water into ??
Malt ??

What wine is used in holy Communion ??
Fanta ??

Alcohol is used in holy Communion.
Jesus told Timothy to drink alcohol.
Read 1 Timothy 5:23
Ignorant people all over the world be claiming they know everything.

ihedioramma:
Ok let me get my bible

LEGALAide:
it is clear that a "little" wine is good for you.
Anything done in moderation ( I mean any good thing, because wine is good) ain't bad.
Take little food, good.
Take a spoon too many, gluttony!

LEGALAide:
it is clear that a "little" wine is good for you.
Anything done in moderation ( I mean any good thing, because wine is good) ain't bad.
Take little food, good.
Take a spoon too many, gluttony!

LEGALAide:
stick to what I believe?
Then I guess I wrote those verses of the Bible I cited.
You can't even controvert a single point there?
Baffled!
Bless.

LEGALAide:
stick to what I believe?
Then I guess I wrote those verses of the Bible I cited.
You can't even controvert a single point there?
Baffled!
Bless.

900warriorz:


some people fire for hell ehn!!! E gallant die...

...never you judge the bible without the holyspirit...if you interprete the bible with human literal knowledge, you will only mislead people to your own detriment! !
Be careful the way you quote the bible ooo coz i would have gone violent with you if we were together....stop using your personal intuition to speak about the bible els, you face the wrath of GOD!

900warriorz:
you be bastard ni Walahi, you don dey vex me for cotonoy wey i dey so oo! God wan purnish you? Why are you trying to mislead even the few that stand their groundz? The fact that those bible quotes aiint written by you doexnt mean you inyerpreted them well...am sure you are an endtime idiot prophecying against GOD! Else, of all the numerous areaz of discussion in the bible, you are talking of drinking! Where did you put the talk on salvation? Am not a christian ooo...though, so i am called...but i know i dont live it. But i wouldnt watch a bastard like you, mislead people. Ignorant fool better ask God for forgiveness coz Jesus iz shedding tearz for your soul already! Never you in your life quite and interprete the bible again if God did not send you else, if i curse you here ehn, e go follow you till grave....

How can one just come online and start taking jabz at the bible just because itz now available to all...if na back then ehn, you dont even have an access to it coz it gives life...but it couldnt have been available to them then coz of manz sinful nature....if not for JESUS, GOD would have striked you now for misinterpreting hiz wordz! People be taking hiz awesomeness for something i dont even know coz hez been too kind!

LEGALAide:
Smh. And you failed to read verse 6, “Do not let the hair of your heads hang loose, and do not tear your clothes, lest you die..."
You won't stop being funny.
Just like the passage telling John the Baptiser not to take strong wine.
With due respect, that passage is addressing a particular set of persons my guy.
If you don't agree with me, then I guess it's a sin for you to "Let your hair hang loose" as seen in verse 6. And if you "tear your clothes" as seen in the same verse 6, you've sinned too.
You see, I understood you when you said: "I was doing dope, and local gin-alcohol, dope wrapped up in psalm 23 soaked in gin, while reading, studying Scriptures, and I thought I knew what the Scriptures were saying", brother I guess you haven't stopped.
You said the word of God cannot be argued, what are you doing right now my friend?
You expect me to read that verse you brought up (hiding the whole chapter though). Funny.
Calm your self down brother.
Go back and read the whole Leviticus 10 in it's entirety and tell me what you understand.
Bless.

LEGALAide:
well, you said you ain't no Christian.
Next!

900warriorz:
God!!! Ayee bobo legalaide yii fe baje shaaa! Just going through your commentz and i feel like killing you! It will not be better for you ooo! Whick kind human you be sef? Iz God your mate? Or chaaaai!!!! 5:15am and you just raised my temper! If you were here i would have killed you sincerely...not with mouth ooo! I mean real death! See, be watchful of what you say outside oo coz if you approach someone like me and say this shitz, i would just take you to a corner and kill you! 'one spanner lost' na him your case go be be that. Why are you doing this for Christ sake? Am sad and angry, realy angry at you for all the shitz you've been saying! To me, you've not made a single point out of your arguement! If you love wine, go ahead and drink it and let those who see it as a sin flee from it....why trying to persuade to peoplez better nature indirectly to do thingz they consider as sin? Itz not fair ooo! If in your life you open such a thread again and itz not about salvation or something that can make youthz think about their heavenly race, GOD will ptrnish your household for your own sin! Dont use your wordz to bring the wrath of God upon your household ooo! Like i said earlier, am not the religious type, i only go to church when my spirit tellz me to and thatz once in a while....but from what i know, what i have been taught and what the bible realy sayz, i fear the word of God! Just dont say shitz because God iz SILENT on our misdeedz and he wantz us reconciled to him! Be careful ooo! Be careful ooo! God and ask your ancestorz in the bible that once tried it...

God doexnt know jokes neither does he overlook certain thingz just like what you are trying to do here!

To my brotherz and sisterz in the christian faith! Though, am not fit to be called one, do not mind legalaide ooo! Probably he iz looking for cheap popularity on nairaland! Believe in what the bible sayz and do not loose hold of your faith! Heaven iz real, so iz hell....a little sin like drinking wine might be the onlu thing that can stain your garment and stop you from entering heaven ooo! God cannot behold the slightest form of iniquity! Please and please, if you are already on God, do not backslide....still looking for my own personal encounter with HIM and if i get it, i wouldnt let people like Legalaide say shitz about God again! Will face them violently, not with insultz but with the cripture they are quoting wrongly! I kust had to use vulgar languages coz he got me to the height of my anger! Stay blessed in christ! Thank you...