if i may ask . . .whatever became of desola? years back she was a real enigma on nairaland and despite my many years of being on ghost mode, i found her to be a real class act anytime.
just to let the guys that gave birth to this thread celebrating all things yoruba know . . . . as events unfolds positvely out here, more and more yoruba folks will be incline to log off their ghost mode and contribute meaningfully to discussion in here, some threads back then was a tard too dirty to even come on board and every one and everything had something so bad to say to one another, but safe zone to be here for me and hopefully i speak on behalf of many ghost members too.
again i commend the progenitors of this thread to continue to keep it clean/tidy and we all be good, am sure we will get the occasional wolves wanting to create drama on some fast moving threads, best we continue to isolate em and continue to enjoy the well thought of opinions and ideas the yoruba are notoriously famous for in a good way . . . . . thoughts
A certain Ilare quarter in Ife has an Ijesa warriors ancestory and the reason is Ijesa warriors were invited to help kill a certain ekun that was a threat at that period - tiger.
But you do have a point sha.
On the side, if you're Ilaje then I hope you're aware of your folks being Osangangan Obamakin's (Obatala's brother) sujects at Mokuro till y'all emigrated out of Ife in protest to Oduduwa's kingship usurpation of power at Ife?
Well, it could never have been a tiger. Tigers are found only in Asia (Siberia, Indian subcontinent, China, South and Southeast Asia).
Regarding the history of the Ilajes, I can not say I am conversant with it so much apart from what I learnt while mingling with the old men. We left Abe-Alala my village for Lagos in around 1974 to join my father in Ogudu. And my father died in 1984, so the elders meeting was no longer held. And I have been out of Nigeria more than 20 years. The last time I was in Igbokoda was 2012, so I cannot claim to be an authority in Ilaje history.
A lot has changed, and still changing in Ondo South senatorial district. However, successive Ondo state governments have been lacking in foresight regarding the strategic importance of the town of Ore. Ore should be a cash cow for Ondo state if the state could develop that town and encourage leisure business there.
As for Okitipupa, I couldn't recognize Okitipupa again. Agagu tried in that regard. Okitipupa has grown big, and almost every street tarred. Okitipupa was barely a town when I went there in 1990, but has surpassed Ore in a matter of 22 years. Igbokoda is ok, but could do better.
A lot of these chics are just shy. Don't worry one of them is going to ask you out soon.
There are just too many fugly chics on this forum and a lot of nutjobs. Then you've guys pretending to be females. So you gotta be careful when prowling so as not to get entangled in madness.
This right here is a pet peeve of mine..... It is like an epidemic on this forum..
On normal crazy threads, break a leg but on preggy & babies threads, pretending to be female, then later PM to start "hawking" some BS stuff!!!
Well, it could never have been a tiger. Tigers are found only in Asia (Siberia, Indian subcontinent, China, South and Southeast Asia).
Regarding the history of the Ilajes, I can not say I am conversant with it so much apart from what I learnt while mingling with the old men. We left Abe-Alala my village for Lagos in around 1974 to join my father in Ogudu. And my father died in 1984, so the elders meeting was no longer held. And I have been out of Nigeria more than 20 years. The last time I was in Igbokoda was 2012, so I cannot claim to be an authority in Ilaje history.
A lot of these chics are just shy. Don't worry one of them is going to ask you out soon.
There are just too many fugly chics on this forum and a lot of nutjobs. Then you've guys pretending to be females. So you gotta be careful when prowling so as not to get entangled in madness.
I heard that it's going to take Nigeria 58+ years to get adequate number of doctors for Nigerians [population], 50+ years to clean ogoniland, 50 years before oil runs out.
Even if it takes Yorubaland 60+ years to attain its glory, it's better late than never.
Katsumoto, I disagree with your opinion that regionalism isn't the key. It may not be the key, but it is the holy grail.
I am not sure where you got that from. I have always advocated for Regionalism/confederationism rather than outright secession.
Sir, I saw a question you asked Katsumoto yesterday about what started Kiriji wars. And I know Katsumoto also highlighted his fears on this thread about folks re-igniting old rivalries in a Yoruba country.
So, I think folks who know a lot on the background story about the Kiriji wars need to educate us on what started the wars and highlight what made the war a war of rivalry - and not a war caused by the power vacuum created by the collapse of Oyo.
Personally, based on my scholarship thus far: I think the wars had more to do with power vacuum and if Oyo hadn't collapsed, there would've never been Kiriji wars. And that's not synonymous with Yorubas alone - it happened in all ancient cultures and folks moved on after power was restored. When the Roman empire collapsed - it also created a power vacuum everywhere the Roman ruled. Internecine wars became the order of the day. England is a classic example and all the wars fought by the different invaders, albeit from the same ethnic group/stock, exemplifies that. Heck, even the Saxons fought amongst themselves. However, once they were able to formulate one general language and fall under one control system - everyone got along perfectly.
Not all wars are fought over poussy, as you called it. This was a war over power, nothing more nothing less. Latosa wanted to subjugate other groups mainly the Egbas and Ijebus and bit more than he could chew. Once he attacked the Egbas, the Ijebus aligned with Egba and the Ilorins and Ekiti saw the opportunity to take Ibadan. The Ibadan chiefs, who were initially reluctant to fight, had no option to fight or face destruction.
It's nothing new, similar to how Napoleon wanted to conquer Europe.
But perhaps others such as TerraCotta can shed more light on this 'poussy' angle if one exists.
...never tasted the black Hennessy. How's the taste different from the "conventional Hennessy"? Any difference?
Shymmex, do you know I fell in love with that drink 'cos 'Pac was always mentioning it?
Remember these lines:
...and in the end, drinking Hennessy made all my enemies envy me. (Until the end of time)
They wanna know who's my role model. It's in a brown bottle...(Hennessy)
...and a lot of lines I can't remember now.
You need to try the black henny.
It smells a tad different and the taste is also somewhat different. Black henny has a little bit of cocktails to it and it's lighter/smoother than the traditional henny.
Darn! Henny owes 2pac billions of dollars for making the drink popular. He probably cited henny at least once on every tune he ever made. That nyggah made everyone jump on the henny train.
My favourite 2pac reference of henny's on the "krazy" tune:
Feeling fvcked up in this biitch/ Smoke half a ounce to the head/ Drop the top, Indo, Hawaiian, Lansbread, Buddha, all that shiit/ I'm fvcked up in this muthaphucka/ And Hennessy don't help, and Hennessy don't help/ Thug passion in this muthaphucka
Anyone interested in watching the rapper, Wale Folarin's emotional visit to Nigeria and his grandad in Ondo state can lock into this beautiful documentary.
Ritchiee: We have been watching a long time and the Super Eagles have continued going down the ladder. We must insist through the media that Yoruba want up to at least 8 players in the SUPER EAGLES sothatwecanwintheWC.. .
But do you think that'll be the case in modern Yorubaland?
I don't think anyone would want to play the Ibadan role and if Oyo hadn't collapsed, Ibadan wouldn't have existed as a powerhouse.
My concern isn't that there will be war, far from it. My concern is that the old feuds and rivalries would lead to friction which would be antithetic to development and peaceful existence. Similar to what you have in Nigeria today. Whilst I believe that inter-marriage amongst the various groups has helped to reduce the significance of these feuds, I still believe it will be an issue.
A certain Ilare quarter in Ife has an Ijesa warriors ancestory and the reason is Ijesa warriors were invited to help kill a certain ekun that was a threat at that period - tiger.
But you do have a point sha.
On the side, if you're Ilaje then I hope you're aware of your folks being Osangangan Obamakin's (Obatala's brother) sujects at Mokuro till y'all emigrated out of Ife in protest to Oduduwa's kingship usurpation of power at Ife?
I doubt very much that what Yorubas call Ekun is a tiger, possibly a big cat maybe a panther like Ilaje said. Cheetah is amotekun and fox is kolokolo while wolf is actually akata as far as I know.
Someone referred to the 'Akata' in Sango's oriki, in the oriki, akata has the sound do do do which means domain, while akata the animal's sound is re mi mi.
My concern isn't that there will be war, far from it. My concern is that the old feuds and rivalries would lead to friction which would be antithetic to development and peaceful existence. Similar to what you have in Nigeria today. Whilst I believe that inter-marriage amongst the various groups has helped to reduce the significance of these feuds, I still believe it will be an issue.
Interesting observation.
But I don't think it will ever be as profound as Nigeria's. And even that can be negated under a well defined provincial structure, with true fiscal federalism. We can use the Canadian, German, or Chinese model - those three models are fantastic.
The most important thing is the common language, culture, tradition, heritage, and people. The aftermath of Kiriji wars gave us a unique language and one identity under the Yoruba umbrella - similar to the ethnic English who were all splinter Germanic groups but never had a common language and identity till the English language and identity were formulated/created. That's the common goal we need - something Nigeria will always lack.
I didnt live in his time but if i did i would have joined in his resistance army to fight Beecroft assault and invasion. He was feared and even though he repeatedly violated the accord of ceasefire and attacked Lagos many times from exile the ego and bragging rights of the British Navy was deeply dented on account.of their losses in battleships and sailors, as well as decorated officers when they bombarded Lagos in 1851. There were accounts also of portuguese traders who had sailed from Lagos with human cargoes to Brazil and suffered loss and ended up indebted to Kosoko. They were so scared of returning without his full money that they got injunction from the courts for protection against his anger. John Beecroft, who had served as the Queen's Consul in foreign lands and used to being received with respect and parade, was taken aback at the reception he received from Oba of Lagos.
There is lots in his history. Yoruba kings of that time had white slaves...they did not see white man as a superior race. I dont know that this Oba kept white slaves or not but as bad as the Ijebus were and completely protective of their waters and access rights i would not be surprised the Awujale kept some white slaves. British navy had more resistance and headache with the Ijebus than they did with anyone else. I know Egbas threw criminals in prison, white or black, they could care less.
If those were the leaders we have today, minus slavery, wed be in good hands.
@bold is true but nigbati awon British soldiers bere si ni da'no lu'gbo pelu Cannon won, Ijebu su're surrender ni kia. Idi ti wo'n fi'n pe ogun na ni. Ogun da'no lu'gbo.
The history of a people determines their desires, expectations, and group behaviour as a people. The Yoruba people have had a great history in the world. About 500 years before the earliest European exploration of the coast of West Africa in about 1500 AD, or about 1000 years before the coming of British imperialism in about 1900 AD, the Yoruba had built a rich and sophisticated urban civilization – the most advanced urban civilization in the history of Black Africa.
Upholding this urban civilization was a great economic culture – sophisticated and highly productive agriculture, rich manufactures and crafts, and great commerce with tentacles reaching into most parts of tropical Africa. Yoruba trading colonies existed in the lands of the Upper Niger (modern Mauritania, Gambia, Senegal and Mali), in all coastal lands of West Africa, in the towns of the Hausa, Nupe and Kanuri, all the way to parts of the Upper Nile and the headwaters of the Congo. In a large part of West Africa, the Yoruba language was the language of commerce. A senior French missionary who visited much of the West African coast between 1634 and 1640 wrote that the Yoruba language “is universally used in these parts, just like Latin in Europe”.
Inside Yorubaland itself, large towns flourished. The first Europeans to enter into the Yoruba interior (a group of explorers in 1825-6), wrote that “large towns at the distance of only a few miles from each other” characterized the whole of Yorubaland, and that most of the towns were “densely inhabited” and were “clean habitations”. The approach to almost every town was “through an avenue of noble trees”, and in each town, public places were abundantly decorated with works of art, especially sculptures. These explorers added that the Yoruba people “have a genius for the art of sculpture…and some of their productions rival, in point of delicacy, any of a similar kind…in Europe”.
The whole country was connected by a cobweb of well-kept and safe roads, protected by the governments of the kings. Where necessary, armed guards sent by the kings accompanied caravans of traders. On these roads, large numbers of traders and their porters were on the move at all times, day and night, usually in caravans numbering hundreds of people. A European missionary wrote that, near Ibadan in 1854, he travelled with a caravan that numbered over 4000 persons. An American missionary who travelled extensively in Yorubaland about the same time, wrote that if caravans happened to merge, “imposing numbers” of people stretched “over several miles in length” across the countryside. Along roads throughout the country, there were, wrote the 1825-6 explorers, “rich plantations of yams”, “extensive plantations of corn and plantains”, “plantations of cotton”, many “acres of indigo”, etc. In their summary, they wrote that the Yoruba people were “an industrious race”.
Every town had large marketplaces, each heavily crowded when in session. A Dutch trader who visited some of the marketplaces between 1702 and 1712 recorded that there were, “without exaggeration more than six thousand” people in one marketplace. In one large town, the 1825-6 explorers counted seven marketplaces. In parts of the country, some marketplaces specialized in night-time trading. One American explorer wrote that the goods produced in “the Mediterranean and Western European coast…and the productions of the four quarters of the globe” could be found in every Yoruba marketplace.
Over all this order and prosperity, kings (or Obas) of the many Yoruba kingdoms reigned. The Yoruba founded their first kingdom (the Ife kingdom) in about 900AD; and between that date and 1600AD, they founded over 70 kingdoms more. In about 1600, one of their kingdoms, the kingdom of Oyo-Ile, expanded its territories, conquered many non-Yoruba peoples, and established the largest empire in West Africa.
The political system of the Yoruba was considerably democratic. An Oba’s government was government by a council of chiefs – the chiefs being representatives of the extended family groups (or lineages) of the royal city. Apart from the lineages, society in each town was organized into many associations. The whole system made each town a home of peace and order, of enterprise, of commerce, of entertainments, of large and colourful festivals. The 1825-6 explorers wrote that the Yoruba people were a peaceful people who loved order, who had great respect for the law, who had a lot of self-respect, and who were generally clean in their clothing and in their personal appearances. They recorded that, unlike in other parts of Africa, they could not persuade any Yoruba young men to carry their older explorers for them in a hammock, for any amount of pay whatsoever. When approached for this, Yoruba boys always answered that that was “a task fit only for horses”.
Living in these systems and conditions made the average Yoruba person a freedom-loving – and a fashion-loving – individual. In meetings at every level in the system, the guiding principle was that everybody had full freedom to speak – that everybody, young or old, “has some wisdom to contribute”. All the world over, kings are succeeded by their offspring – usually their first child – and the citizens have no voice in the matter. In contrast, the Yoruba select their Obas from the pool of princes. All the people of the lineage compounds, in open lineage meetings, selected the chiefs.
All these made the Yoruba person a very confident person – confident in his person, confident in society, accustomed to being respected by those who ruled over him. Yoruba women enjoyed more respect than women in most other cultures. The fact that Yoruba women controlled most of the enormous trade of their country contributed to making them free and enterprising, and made them control much more of their country’s wealth than women in most cultures in the world.
The above, briefly, is a sketch of where the Yoruba have come from. To understand Yoruba behaviour in the affairs of Nigeria, one must understand these things. In the politics of Nigeria, the Yoruba may look “disunited”, but in reality, they are solidly united in their ideals and purposes.
So, what do the Yoruba want for themselves and for Nigeria? First, the Yoruba want governments that are dedicated to the welfare and prosperity of their people. That is why the Western Regional government of the Awolowo era – 1952-62, is revered among Yoruba people today – and will probably be revered forever.
Secondly, the Yoruba individual wants to be free in society, and to be able to make political choices and express himself freely. That is why Yoruba people usually look as if they are divided in the political life of Nigeria. But they are not divided; they are only more democratic than most other peoples.
Thirdly, the Yoruba person desires that the rulers of his society should respect him. That is why Yoruba people always feel insulted and very angry when powerful politicians come and rig their votes at elections. It is why Yoruba people have put up most of the violent responses to the rigging of elections in the history of Nigeria.
Fourthly, the Yoruba person wants to feel free to practice any religion of his own choice without molestation by anybody. That is why Yoruba people of all religions are very nervous about the perpetual Islamic radicalism from the Northern Region.
Fifthly, Yoruba people strongly desire an orderly country. They therefore want the various nations of Nigeria, large or small, to be given due recognition and respect, and they want that the constitution of Nigeria should enshrine such recognition and respect. This is why the Yoruba elite have always advocated a rational federal structure for Nigeria – a federation based, as much as possible, on ethnically compact states, and in which the states will have the resources and constitutional powers to promote the development of their people. It is also why, though the Yoruba enjoy population strength and many other kinds of strength in Nigeria, they have never desired to dominate any other nation or to dominate the whole of Nigeria. Their rich civilization teaches them to despise any notion of ethnic domination, or any claim of ethnic dominance, as uttermost folly, a kind of destructive folly that endangers any nation that holds it, and that will ultimately make Nigeria unworkable and impossible to keep together.
Finally, the Yoruba desire that individual Nigerians should be free and safe to live and do business anywhere in Nigeria. That is why they smoothly welcome very many non-Yoruba immigrants in their homeland. The Yoruba always give careful respect to other people in whose land they go to trade or do business, and they expect other people who come to trade or do business in their land to respect them also.
The Yoruba are strongly united around these principles. Leaders may come and go, but the generality of Yoruba people remain united over what they love and desire.
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Nothing do us
