twosquare:
I know what you are saying (in response to the other quote and this one). I don't just speak.... I know these beings... That Obama is one of the famous presidents in the world doesn't mean we don't have other famous presidents... Michael is an angel after the order of the 3rd heaven, same likewise Lucifer, who by the reason of treason was driven to the lowest realm. I don't just speak, I can teach you about them by the scriptures and revelation... I've had encounters with them, and I know much about their world, stratums and how it relates to the sonship of Jesus... There are many sectors in the spirit, and Michael is in charge of Warfare.... We have other cherubs who can handle satan very well, they are also princes like Lucifer. If I want to divulge some info... It can take months coz it takes might to grasp these things and understand them accurately. In Daniel, he was referred to as "one of the chief princes". In other words, this means there are other princes that are CHIEF among the angels... When discussing the world of the angels which is in three strata, know that they have tribes just like we in the earthly realm... In fact, the tribes of Israel was patterned after the heavenly. Lucifer is a son of God, Michael is a son of God, Adam is a son of God, Gabriel is a son of God, Jeremiel is a son of God, Raphael is a son of God.... They all I've mentioned are all princes of different pedigrees... Among all the trees (princes) that stood in Eden, Lucifer has an extremely colorful glory, even though he was not the highest. It takes an Adonnai to subject all things under his own feet... Michael can't do that coz he is an angel... Do you know who an Adonnai is? The controller... He who owns all things... That was the position Lucifer coveted and God said, "Who are you?" "I've never said to angels (including Michael) .. Sit at my right hand side..."

Princes are many.... But there is the Prince whom Michael himself loved and dread... It's demons that tremble... The work of Michael in the last days is to throw Lucifer from the realm which is close to the 1st heaven down to the earth and clean up that Adamic realm as the work of a commander. The reason people erred in this is because Michael was given the job to throw him and down and they thought only God (Jesus) can do that, that means he is the Lord... No, it even takes another Cherub to lock him up...When people actually know the power of the LORD JESUS, Satan will indeed be small. People don't know who the Lord is, but when they do, they will fear. A 33 year old man whose heaven will shift at His gaze.. That's Adonnai... He is not a Cherub (those who excel in strength- Michael, Uriel, Gabriel, Jeremiel et al), neither is He a Seraph, nor the stars of God who inhabits the 1st realm..... I will be back to explain some things.

You have had encounters with the Heavenly beings? Ummm...are you an alien. (joking)

Well, i dit not asked that you teach me about them anyway. Thanks for proposing. I am for the point that Jesus is not the Almighty God. Bible has proved He has always been on services to his Father right from the OT till the NT. He has a Father. And the Apostle Paul interpreted the OT for us by telling us Jesus was that Angel that Followed the Israelites. Scription interprets scripture. Jesus is the Son of God. The prince of Peace. The chief Priest among priests, Patriarch among the patriarchs, Law in the law, King among the kings, Archangel among the Angels. He is the Lord of Host. Prophet among prophets .The list is without end...With all this proves from the bible. We still call Him God. While He said there is only one true God. The Almighty God. The one that sent him to Earth. He said His God is my God. His father is my Father.

Meeeennn! My head is about to burst. Dis occurs When xtians try to justify how jesus is the holy spirit, the son of God and still the God. Does trinity implies 3 in one or one in 3? Am confused

plappville:


Now you agree He is the Angel God sent with them? Because it was thesame event Paul was illustrating when He concluded that Rock was "CHRIST "

Yes but I follow the original understanding of the term "angel " which simply means "messenger" or "one who walks for another". So when God sends his Word to his people I dnt have no problem.

plappville:


Paul knew God sent An Angel with them. And He told us He was Christ. Viewing many events of Exodus. Jesus was always sent by God As the Angel of the Lord. Even in the burning bush. It was not God whom no man can see and live that appeared to Moses but an Angel.

"And the Angel of God spake to Moses, in a flame of fire out of the bush, and said, I am that I am, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of thy fathers; go down into Egypt, and bring forth My people."

Yet moses calls this person God.

plappville:


It is important to study the bible with open mind not bias. If no man Can see God and live. How can we say Jesus who was always on mission for his Father is God.

Studying with a open mind made me believe the bible teaches jesus is divine.

Why do u say no man can see God? Isaiah, Moses, Aaron and more saw God.

Well for one I believe the bible teaches he is God or more correctly divine and eternal.

And I also believe it teaches the father is God, yet the bible is clear there is one God and one Lord.

hayzed1090:
Meeeennn! My head is about to burst. Dis occurs When xtians try to justify how jesus is the holy spirit, the son of God and still the God. Does trinity implies 3 in one or one in 3? Am confused

Ignorance

plappville:


The issue is not about the Rock. The issue is about Paul calling the Angel Christ.

I think it is very important for the Old testament clearly says there no other Rock but Yahweh.

Richirich713:


Ignorance

Xactly! And I need a professor like you to enlighten me.

plappville:


You have had encounters with the Heavenly beings? Ummm...are you an alien. (joking)

Well, i dit not asked that you teach me about them anyway. Thanks for proposing. I am for the point that Jesus is not the Almighty God. Bible has proved He has always been on services to his Father right from the OT till the NT. He has a Father. And the Apostle Paul interpreted the OT for us by telling us [s]Jesus was that Angel that Followed the Israelites.[/s] Scription interprets scripture. Jesus is the Son of God. The prince of Peace. The chief Priest among priests, Patriarch among the patriarchs, Law in the law, King among the kings, Archangel among the Angels. He is the Lord of Host. Prophet among prophets .The list is without end...With all this proves from the bible. We still call Him God. While He said there is only one true God. The Almighty God. The one that sent him to Earth. He said His God is my God. His father is my Father.

I crossed out two or more sentences in your understanding...Jesus is not an angel...the word 'angel'...aggelos....a messenger...just like the 'messenger of satan' who attacked Paul. You need the eyes of revelation to sight the tree in the scripture because therein lies the sword of that cherub meant to sway you hither and thither...he is not an archangel...if you're looking for one, go see Jeremiel, Uriel, Gabriel and co...there are many archangels sis. It is a position given by God to these spirits, and there is a position of Adonnai which Jesus now occupies....The second person who is on the throne is Almighty God who is a man. He is God-Man...the first time Angels saw (including Michael) God wearing flesh and sitting on the throne. That He is Almighty doesn't mean He doesn't have a Father who gave Him the same glory...

The error is that we still think with fallen minds and the mindset of the system of these world. Among the trinity, it's no competition among them....The Father, the GOD-Man (Son) and the Holy Spirit behave like children. Indeed, they are children because it's no competition among them...The responsibilities of saving mankind started with The Father, the Son came do His with the Apostles, now the Holy Spirit is now in our dispensation.....Angels were all involved and they're still involved because they are emissaries of the Kingdom meant to execute....An angel cannot occupy the position of Adonnai....if Jesus is an angel, He cannot be the saviour of mankind because it takes someone who is from the loins of the Father that can successfully pull it through.

I think i still need to teach you the order of Sonship. Jesus said what He said as a Son of Man (concerning your last statement), not as the Alpha and Omega...the way He talked in the gospels is different from the way He talked in Revelations (there is a reason for it). Please read Phillipians 2:6. That's why you need to understand the Epistles. The Epistles is a revelation of His Divinity. You need the spirit of might to see and sight it...That's why John took time to trace His genealogy, even past the angels who were not with God in the beginning...one of the beginnings John saw was the world of God where no angels have ever been...They don't even know they will come into existence (not even Michael, not Lucifer, not Gabriel etc.) It is the world of the Almight(ies), the world of those who have been in the beginning before He (F,S,H) even opened the portals of the sons of the morning....That was one of the questions Jehovah asked Job...Were you there when the morning sons sang their first song?......Michael was among those who sang that first song on that day, including Lucifer. Jesus wasn't created, neither is He a son of the morning. He is Almighty God who is part of the Father.....Michael is a Name, Lucifer is a Name....Gabriel is a Name and they are able to open portals/gates...but there is a Name that can close a door which no one can open and vice versa....Know your Lord.

Richirich713:


Yes but I follow the original understanding of the term "angel " which simply means "messenger" or "one who walks for another". So when God sends his Word to his people I dnt have no problem.

Good you have no problem with that. Not all Trinitarians will accept this angel Is Christ himself.

Yet moses calls this person God.

Thats my point. This Angel is not just like Other angels. He plays a Role no other Angel can play. We read that He has the power not to Forgive thier transgressions. He bears Gods name in Him. Thats why He must be Jesus. And the Apostle Paul confirmed it as we have seen previously. Jesus is not the Almighty, But the mighty. At first, the Exodus account looks difficult to understand., It further says Moses saw God. But we know an angel is not God Almighty.

Studying with a open mind made me believe the bible teaches jesus is divine.

Why do u say no man can see God? Isaiah, Moses, Aaron and more saw God.

Well for one I believe the bible teaches he is God or more correctly divine and eternal.

And I also believe it teaches the father is God, yet the bible is clear there is one God and one Lord.

I never said Jesus is not divine. Far from that. All this prophets saw Jesus. God said it that no man can See him and live. God is not an author of confusion. He cant say no man can see me and live and later be seen by men who lived long.


But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

John 5:37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(.”

Richirich713:


I think it is very important for the Old testament clearly says there no other Rock but Yahweh.

Paul said the Rock was Christ NOT Yahweh.
And you read that Yahweh was the one who sent The angel. Yahweh did not send himself. And Yahweh is not an Angel. He is the creator. The Almighty God.

twosquare:
I crossed out two or more sentences in your understanding...Jesus is not an angel...the word 'angel'...aggelos....a messenger...just like the 'messenger of satan' who attacked Paul. You need the eyes of revelation to sight the tree in the scripture because therein lies the sword of that cherub meant to sway you hither and thither...he is not an archangel...if you're looking for one, go see Jeremiel, Uriel, Gabriel and co...there are many archangels sis. It is a position given by God to these spirits, and there is a position of Adonnai which Jesus now occupies....The second person who is on the throne is Almighty God who is a man. He is God-Man...the first time Angels saw (including Michael) God wearing flesh and sitting on the throne. That He is Almighty doesn't mean He doesn't have a Father who gave Him the same glory...

The error is that we still think with fallen minds and the mindset of the system of these world. Among the trinity, it's no competition among them....The Father, the GOD-Man (Son) and the Holy Spirit behave like children. Indeed, they are children because it's no competition among them...The responsibilities of saving mankind started with The Father, the Son came do His with the Apostles, now the Holy Spirit is now in our dispensation.....Angels were all involved and they're still involved because they are emissaries of the Kingdom meant to execute....An angel cannot occupy the position of Adonnai....if Jesus is an angel, He cannot be the saviour of mankind because it takes someone who is from the loins of the Father that can successfully pull it through.

I think i still need to teach you the order of Sonship. Jesus said what He said as a Son of Man (concerning your last statement), not as the Alpha and Omega...the way He talked in the gospels is different from the way He talked in Revelations (there is a reason for it). Please read Phillipians 2:6. That's why you need to understand the Epistles. The Epistles is a revelation of His Divinity. You need the spirit of might to see and sight it...That's why John took time to trace His genealogy, even past the angels who were not with God in the beginning...one of the beginnings John saw was the world of God where no angels have ever been...They don't even know they will come into existence (not even Michael, not Lucifer, not Gabriel etc.) It is the world of the Almight(ies), the world of those who have been in the beginning before He (F,S,H) even opened the portals of the sons of the morning....That was one of the questions Jehovah asked Job...Were you there when the morning sons sang their first song?......Michael was among those who sang that first song on that day, including Lucifer. Jesus wasn't created, neither is He a son of the morning. He is Almighty God who is part of the Father.....Michael is a Name, Lucifer is a Name....Gabriel is a Name and they are able to open portals/gates...but there is a Name that can close a door which no one can open and vice versa....Know your Lord.

Take a good look at the bible and tell me who the
(Angel of the LORD) is. First example, the story of Moses and the burning bush: Exo 3:2 And the (angel of the LORD) appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Now in verses 4 and 6 who is identified as being in the bush?

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

You will agree with me that the Angel (messenger) of verse 2 is same person called God in verse 3&6. This is also confirmed in the N T:


Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an (angel of the Lord) in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him.

We know the Angel of the Lord is not God Himself. The Angel of the Lord here is Jesus. No man can see God and Live.

Lets look at the story of Hagar Sarahs slave in Genesis.

Gen 16:7 And the (angel of the LORD) found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Gen 16:9 And the ("angel of the LORD) said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. 10 And the (angel of the LORD) said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the (angel of the LORD) said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD (Yahweh ) hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Hagar was visited and spoken to by the Angel of the Lord , but look who she says this *Angel* was:

Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Again the (Angel of the Lord) is actually none other than the LORD Jesus Christ Himself. And not Yahweh. Scripture interprets scriptures.

twosquare:
....The second person who is on the throne is Almighty God who is a man. He is God-Man...

The 2rd person on Throne is the Almighty. The first person (Father )is what then? By the way the bible says:


*God is not a man*, that he should lie; neither the *son of man*, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good

Jesus didnt lie but He said He was the Son of Man.

the first time Angels saw (including Michael) God wearing flesh and sitting on the throne. That He is Almighty doesn't mean He doesn't have a Father who gave Him the same glory...

Are you suggesting TWO Almighty in Heaven? If He has a Father is this Father not more than Him? Yhe fact that the Father GAVE Him the glory shows He didnt own it at first please put things properly. Thanks.

plappville:


Good you have no problem with that. Not all Trinitarians will accept this angel Is Christ himself.

Trust me, all Trinitarians believe jesus can be send by his father as a messenger.

plappville:

Thats my point. This Angel is not just like Other angels. He plays a Role no other Angel can play. We read that He has the power not to Forgive thier transgressions. He bears Gods name in Him. Thats why He must be Jesus. And the Apostle Paul confirmed it as we have seen previously. Jesus is not the Almighty, But the mighty. At first, the Exodus account looks difficult to understand., It further says Moses saw God. But we know an angel is not God Almighty.

So jesus is a mighty god and the father is God Almighty
U know Isaiah also calls the father mighty god.

Also u should start looking at the hebrew, cuz translating "El Shadda" as God Almighty is a poor translation. In hebrew it does not say that, in fact the hebrew to us might seem like an insult as our understanding is different to the ancient hebrews culture.

Names in hebrew also are very significant, look at what Yahweh means in hebrew.

plappville:

I never said Jesus is not divine. Far from that. All this prophets saw Jesus. God said it that no man can See him and live. God is not an author of confusion. He cant say no man can see me and live and later be seen by men who lived long.



But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

John 5:37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(.”

'Woe to me!' I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.'


Here Isaiah says he saw Yahweh Almighty. But John says Isaiah saw Jesus.

Isn't this a problem to ur beliefs? And this is just one of the many verses where Yahweh is seen.

plappville:


Paul said the Rock was Christ NOT Yahweh.
And you read that Yahweh was the one who sent The angel. Yahweh did not send himself. And Yahweh is not an Angel. He is the creator. The Almighty God.

"Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one. Isaiah 44:8


"They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:4 )


Then who did isaiah see if only the father can be called Yahweh? Cuz Isaiah said he saw Yahweh Almighty.

hayzed1090:


Xactly! And I need a professor like you to enlighten me.

Are u christian?

Richirich713:


Trust me, all Trinitarians believe jesus can be send by his father as a messenger.

So why Say Jesus is Yahweh? Who send who? God send Jesus or God send Himself?

So jesus is a mighty god and the father is God Almighty
U know Isaiah also calls the father mighty god.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father , from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ , through whom all things came and through whom we

The bible always give distinction between the Father and the Son. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus a mighty God.


For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Also u should start looking at the hebrew, cuz translating "El Shadda" as God Almighty is a poor translation. In hebrew it does not say that, in fact the hebrew to us might seem like an insult as our understanding is different to the ancient hebrews culture.

Names in hebrew also are very significant, look at what Yahweh means in hebrew.



'Woe to me!' I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.'


Here Isaiah says he saw Yahweh Almighty. But John says Isaiah saw Jesus.

Isn't this a problem to ur beliefs? And this is just one of the many verses where Yahweh is seen.

How is this a problem to my belief? Should i say the same thing to you? The bible says no man can See God and live. I showed you the scripture and you qouted another scripture contradicting the one i posted. How is that my problem? If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh in scriptures has infact, Saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus.

Richirich713:




Names in hebrew also are very significant, look at what Yahweh means in hebrew.

Jesus said that he glorified his Father's name. We know his Father's name and His name Jesus. We know who they are! The personal name "Jesus," or Yahshua, is translated "Yahweh Saves." How does Yahweh save? He saves through his Son Yahshua.(Jesus ). Yahshua is not Yahweh. They are two different beings.

Psa 83: 18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

There can be only one who is the Highest!

WHEN JESUS RETURNS, GOD WILL BE WITH HIM.

There wont be two people in the one "Most High."

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD. and his name one.

JESUS WILL POINT MEN TO HIS FATHER, AS THEIR GOD!

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . .

In the book of Revelation, when we enter the Holy City, we find one God the Father and one Lamb, Jesus the Messiah :

Rev 21:3 . . .God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty (Yahweh/the Father) and the Lamb (Jesus/the son)are the temple of it.

plappville:


So why Say Jesus is Yahweh? Who send who? God send Jesus or God send Himself?

Why say he is Yahweh, u just said urself if anyone saw Yahweh they saw Jesus , when Isaiah said he saw Yahweh, he saw Jesus right?

If that's the case why dont u call jesus Yahweh like Isaiah did.

Ps the father sends his Word just like he sends his spirit.

plappville:




yet for us there is but one God, the Father , from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ , through whom all things came and through whom we

"For even if there are so called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords", yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." 1 Corinthians 8:4-6

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Deuteronomy 6:4

It is known and agreed by many scholars paul is rearranging the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 using the Septuagint. Something which I agree with so I have no problem with the above.

plappville:


The bible always give distinction between the Father and the Son. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus a mighty God.


For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Amazingly Isaiah gives all the same titles to the father except for one. But I'm sure u will not say the father is a mighty God.

plappville:


How is this a problem to my belief? Should i say the same thing to you? The bible says no man can See God and live. I showed you the scripture and you qouted another scripture contradicting the one i posted. How is that my problem? If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh in scriptures has infact, Saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus.

Exactly what Trinitarians believe , when people said they saw Yahweh they saw Jesus not the Father.

The problem with ur view is u don't call jesus Yahweh, Isaiah did.

I thought u believe only the father is Yahweh and only he can be called Yahweh.

plappville:


Jesus said that he glorified his Father's name. We know his Father's name and His name Jesus. We know who they are! The personal name "Jesus," or Yahshua, is translated "Yahweh Saves." How does Yahweh save? He saves through his Son Yahshua.(Jesus ). Yahshua is not Yahweh. They are two different beings.

plappville:


How is this a problem to my belief? Should i say the same thing to you? The bible says no man can See God and live. I showed you the scripture and you qouted another scripture contradicting the one i posted. How is that my problem? If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh [/b]in scriptures [b]has infact, Saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus.

'Woe to me!' I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.' Isaiah 6:5


So here Isaiah saw Jesus and called him Yahweh.

If u believe Isaiah saw Jesus and called him Yahweh Almighty , why don't u call jesus Yahweh like Isaiah did?

plappville:

The 2rd person on Throne is the Almighty. The first person (Father )is what then? By the way the bible says:


*God is not a man*, that he should lie; neither the *son of man*, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good

Jesus didnt lie but He said He was the Son of Man.

Are you suggesting TWO Almighty in Heaven? If He has a Father is this Father not more than Him? Yhe fact that the Father GAVE Him the glory shows He didnt own it at first please put things properly. Thanks.

The greatest power that equals the power of resurrection is turning a creator to a creature.... Did you even read the Philippians I asked you to read? Yes..... There are three, not even two... One is with us, two is in heaven.. They are subject to one another and that's the way of God. One left His world as an agreement between them (to save us). When He went back, He didn't arrive as the Word any longer but a Man who entered into divinity and was pronounced God. The sacrifice is that He won't take the form of the Word any longer but that of human (flesh). Now, He is not ashamed to call us brethren because we have someone who is God-Man (both God and Man).

Want to know if you understand the scriptures: Who are the son of men or who is a son of man?

plappville:
Psa 83: 18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

There can be only one who is the Highest!

WHEN JESUS RETURNS, GOD WILL BE WITH HIM.

There wont be two people in the one "Most High."

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD. and his name one.

JESUS WILL POINT MEN TO HIS FATHER, AS THEIR GOD!

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. . .

In the book of Revelation, when we enter the Holy City, we find one God the Father and one Lamb, Jesus the Messiah :

Rev 21:3 . . .God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty (Yahweh/the Father) and the Lamb (Jesus/the son)are the temple of it.

Again then how can u explain Isaiah seeing Yahweh Almighty. Cuz John said he saw Jesus.

@ malvisguy, hope you will reply me in ur next post on this thread. And I hope you will comment and share your view on Richirich beliefs.

dolphinheart:
@ malvisguy, hope you will reply me in ur next post on this thread.
And I hope you will comment and share your view on Richirich beliefs.

What are ur views about Isaiah seeing Yahweh Almighty, do u agree with John that Isaiah saw Jesus?

Richirich713:


What are ur views about Isaiah seeing Yahweh Almighty, do u agree with John that Isaiah saw Jesus?

Hope you dnt expect me to first read the whole book of Isaiah and john! To look for where Isaiah said he saw yaweh .!
Pls quote the verse(s)

Richirich713:


Why say he is Yahweh, u just said urself if anyone saw Yahweh they saw Jesus , when Isaiah said he saw Yahweh, he saw Jesus right?

I said the *angel of the Lord* in the OT is Jesus. Not Yahweh. The Father of Jesus for no one can see him and live.

If that's the case why dont u call jesus Yahweh like Isaiah did.

Ps the father sends his Word just like he sends his spirit.
Again no man can see God and live. You cant ignore that verse. If we agree Isaiah and other prophets saw God. Then the bible is not consistant. I still stand on the fact that no man has ever seen God. Its what the bible says not me.

[quote]



"For even if there are so called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords", yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." 1 Corinthians 8:4-6

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Deuteronomy 6:4

It is known and agreed by many scholars paul is rearranging the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 using the Septuagint. Something which I agree with so I have no problem with the above.

God is ONE, why u make him three in ONE?

Amazingly Isaiah gives all the same titles to the father except for one. But I'm sure u will not say the father is a mighty God.

Whice one? You agreed that Jesus was that Angel that was sent with the Israelites in the wilderness. Because Paul told us That Rock was Christ. If you are now claiming Jesus to be GOD then you are equally saying GOD is that Angel that Followed them. Did he now send Himself?

Exactly what Trinitarians believe , when people said they saw Yahweh they saw Jesus not the Father.

The problem with ur view is u don't call jesus Yahweh, Isaiah did.

I thought u believe only the father is Yahweh and only he can be called Yahweh.

For me The Father is the God of Jesus. There are things the name Yahweh, says about GOD:
 1. He never had a beginning. 2. God will never end.
 3. God is absolute reality. 4. God is utterly independent.
 5. Everything that is not God depends totally on God. Jesus depended on God to raised Him from the dead and God did. JESUS said by myself i can do nothing. He said all that He says are not his word but From his God. We can see Jesus depended on God.
 6. All the universe is by comparison to God as nothing.
 7. God is constant. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He cannot be improved. He is not becoming anything. He is who he is. 8. God is the absolute standard of truth and goodness and beauty.
 9. God does whatever he pleases and it is always right and always beautiful and always in accord with truth.
 10. God is the most important and most valuable reality and person in the universe. Jesus himself submitted to the Father. How can one submit to Himself?

BRB....

Richirich713:





'Woe to me!' I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.' Isaiah 6:5


So here Isaiah saw Jesus and called him Yahweh.

If u believe Isaiah saw Jesus and called him Yahweh Almighty , why don't u call jesus Yahweh like Isaiah did?

Do you know how many name Jesus was to be called but was never called those names? Jesus Himself never said He was GOD ALMIGHTY. Isaiah call Jesus Yahweh may not be that He saw "The Father of Jesus" whom no man can see and live. Except we will conclude that God later changed his mind and allowed himself to be seen by man.

plappville:

Do you know how many name Jesus was to be called but was never called those names? Jesus Himself never said He was GOD ALMIGHTY. [size=14pt]Isaiah call Jesus Yahweh[/size] may not be that He saw "The Father of Jesus" whom no man can see and live. Except we will conclude that God later changed his mind and allowed himself to be seen by man.

This is not about seeing the father, this is what u said, that any1 wu claimed to see Yahweh has in fact saw Jesus.

If Isaiah called jesus Yahweh, why don't u call him Yahweh?

plappville:

If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that [size=13pt]everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh[/size] in scriptures [size=13pt]has infact, Saw Jesus[/size]. But not the Father of Jesus.

[quote author=plappville post=40998604]

twosquare:
The greatest power that equals the power of resurrection is turning a creator to a creature.... Did you even read the Philippians I asked you to read?

Yes, i read Philippians 2. It says that Jesus humbled himself as a servant. The form of a servant is to serve. Angels are also our servants. Jesus was not the "God of our Fathers," but He is His servant and his begotten Son. Acts 3:21- 22 tell us that God has spoken by the mouth of the prophets, since the world began. Heb 1 also says this same God spoke to the fathers by the prophets, and now speaks through his Son Jesus, who is his express image and shows us his glory. Jesus inherited his title as the Word of God, because he is his Son, he spoke his Father's words.

Yes..... There are three, not even two... One is with us, two is in heaven.. They are subject to one another and that's the way of God. One left His world as an agreement between them (to save us). When He went back, He didn't arrive as the Word any longer but a Man who entered into divinity and was pronounced God. The sacrifice is that He won't take the form of the Word any longer but that of human (flesh). Now, He is not ashamed to call us brethren because we have someone who is God-Man (both God and Man).

God is not a man. He is The God of our Fathers He is also Jesus's Father .the book of Acts 3:13 said it:

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus. . .

John 20: 17 Jesus said "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God ." Jesus talking here: Rev 3:21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in HIS throne. As You can see, Jesus was ascending to his Father, who is one person, not a plural God.

Want to know if you understand the scriptures: Who are the son of men or who is a son of man?

Man, who was made in God's image, is male and female. God himself is our Father, so who is our mother? Eve is the mother of all living, except Adam, and she came from him. Mary is Jesus' mother and she is a daughter of Adam and Eve, so Jesus is the son of man. We all have physical fathers and mothers, except Jesus, whose only Father is God.

Richirich713:


This is not about seeing the father, this is what u said, that any1 wu claimed to see Yahweh has in fact saw Jesus.

If Isaiah called jesus Yahweh, why don't u call him Yahweh?

If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh in scriptures has infact, Saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus.

Since no one can see GOD. I said anyone who says i saw Yahweh/Father has infact saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus whom the bible told us He cannot be seen.

plappville:



Since no one can see GOD. I said anyone who says i saw Yahweh/Father has infact saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus whom the bible told us He cannot be seen.

That's the whole point, Isaiah saw Yahweh, u say any1 wu claimed to see Yahweh saw Jesus,

So why don't u call jesus Yahweh, if u believe Isaiah did it ?

plappville:


Yes, i read Philippians 2. It says that Jesus humbled himself as a servant. The form of a servant is to serve. Angels are also our servants. Jesus was not the "God of our Fathers," but He is His servant and his begotten Son. Acts 3:21- 22 tell us that God has spoken by the mouth of the prophets, since the world began. Heb 1 also says this same God spoke to the fathers by the prophets, and now speaks through his Son Jesus, who is his express image and shows us his glory. [s]Jesus inherited his title as the Word of God, because he is his Son, he spoke his Father's words.[/s]


[s]
God is not a man. He is The God of our Fathers He is also Jesus's Father .the book of Acts 3:13 said it:[/s]

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus. . .

John 20: 17 Jesus said "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God ." Jesus talking here: Rev 3:21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in HIS throne. As You can see, Jesus was ascending to his Father, who is one person, not a plural God.



[s]Man, who was made in God's image, is male and female.[/s] God himself is our Father, so who is our mother? Eve is the mother of all living, except Adam, and she came from him. [s]Mary is Jesus' mother and she is a daughter of Adam and Eve, so Jesus is the son of man. We all have physical fathers and mothers, except Jesus, whose only Father is God.[/s]

(1) Not just angels alone, Prophets are also servants....Amos 3:7: Surely the Lord Yahweh will do nothing, unless he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets. Therefore, going by your own method of analysis...Jesus is also a Prophet.

(2) Yeah, He is now the express image of His person, the Father leaves all judgement to the Son....The Father is the negative, Jesus is the positive.... The Father has remained darkened to men, Jesus is the only Man who can unveil Him....Do you want to see the negative of a picture? Develop it and you will see the actual....That's Jesus for you.

(3) He was the Word in the beginning, but now His title has changed to the Son of God (God in human flesh)....Another type of race that has never been...God can't give it to angels but only to the Adamic race..God is now in man and man is now in God forever..that's the essence and ultimate sacrifice that the Word paid...It's more than the forgiveness of sin...reason He is worshipped. Angel cannot worship another angel. And angels cannot worship anything less than God.

(4) The second person in trinity is a Man...the first Man was glorified by the reason of inheriting the things of God the Father....Jesus of Nazareth was lower than angels just like Adam...the Adamic person who stood in Eden is like the angels before the fall....Jesus is a Man and still have that property in Him, but not after the order of the first Adam...This man is now Christo.

(5) Again, He is a man.....Paul revealed this secret....Your quote: God is not a man (That is a revelation by Balaam who is saying He is not after the order of fallen men that practices a lie (we all know who is the father of it) and Balaam doesn't even know the plan of God about the end of days which was preached to Abraham. Even this caught Satan by surprise. He doesn't believe God can descend so low even unto the point of Adam, and downwards into hell. Listen to Paul: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)
...................................First time you can hold God and catch Him, if He wasn't reduced to a man, they will not be able to nail Him to a cross.

(6) Please change your thoughts. it is evident that you're still thinking after the order of the first Adam, the second Adam who is on the throne doesn't need a mother...He was not even born of a woman (I hope you know what that means). Adams are not born of women. Perhaps you've forgotten: There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

(7) That will still bring me to the question you haven't answered: Who are the sons of men?

Among those born of woman, none is greater than John......