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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Is Nature Exactly? (29817 Views)
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Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Joshthefirst(m): 6:13pm On Mar 18, 2016 |
Weah96: Weah96: You sound pained and angered by something(God?) with all your mockery. I recommend you see a therapist. Pouring vex on nairaland will do you no good. 5 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Weah96: 8:26pm On Mar 18, 2016 |
Kay17: Wonder how IT did it, I mean the magic is too profound to imagine! How fortunate are we to know Nairalanders who talk to this thing? 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Weah96: 8:29pm On Mar 18, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: It was always going to end like this. You've essentially run out of arguments and can no longer continue the discussion. That's what happens when you talk to divine google spirit people in your heart. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Joshthefirst(m): 9:22pm On Mar 18, 2016 |
Weah96:I have run out of arguments? seriously? Weah96: Joshthefirst: Weah96: Weah96: Joshthefirst: Weah96: Joshthefirst: Weah96: Weah96: Joshthefirst: There's our history. Anyone who reads it can see where argument turned to puerile wailing on your part. I do not carry out discussions with childish wailers and mockers. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by johnydon22(m): 9:06am On Mar 19, 2016 |
KingEbukaNaija: Improvisation from what? Nothingness?? I am not sure at all you understood kay17's argument as usual 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 2:30pm On Mar 19, 2016 |
johnydon22: Well not nothingness per se . If you read through pages 5 and 6 you'd understand that nothingness meant no material realm But : KingEbukaNaija: 3 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 12:10pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
PastorAIO: I'll accept that answer but still I must ask: How did you arrive at the conclusion that natural processes are teleological? What evidence convinces you of this? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 12:37pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
plaetton:Good to see you again Plaetton. If as you claim, nature itself is a complex functional system and it is NOT a product of intelligence, what evidence convinces you of this? Are there other examples of complex functional systems that have come to be by random chance whose origin was observed? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 12:49pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
CoolUsername:Ok so you admit that no observation has occurred only inferences have been made. How do you know that you have made the right inferences? If complex functional systems have never been observed to begin to exist without intelligent design, then upon what basis do you infer that intelligence was not involved in the origination of any given complex functional system? Ah, but cells are just products of molecular self-assembly. Self-assembly of lipids and proteins form the cell membrane and DNA material, respectively. No outside interference is necessary.Molecular self-assembly you say. How can anything that lacks agency possibly assemble itself in a specifically ordered mannaer? Or are you suggesting that molecules have conscious agency? A scientific theory is pure not speculation, DNA sampling, radioisotope dating, and therefore the entire atomic theory all have to be wrong for the evidence that they bring to be discredited.I don't have a problem with evolution neither am I arguing against it here. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 12:52pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
Scholar8200:I think I agree with what I think is the spirit of what you are saying. Thanks for replying. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 12:55pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Yes. Plenty. Cloud formations, movement and dissipations. Mountain ranges and Rifft valleys. Rivers and their Tributaries. Forestations. Continental drift. These are all complex functional systems whose origins are underpinned by random chaotic events. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 1:06pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
Kay17: Erhm...what word would you rather have me use in place of "accident"? 2 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 1:20pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
plaetton:I see, 1. How exactly are Mountain ranges and Rift valleys complex, functional and a system? 2. How exactly are a rivers and their tributaries complex, functional and a system? 3. How exactly is forestation complex, functional and a system? 4. How exactly is Continental drift complex, functional and a system? 5. How exactly are Cloud formations, movement and dissipations. complex, functional and a system? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 1:59pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Maybe "natural" |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 2:04pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
I will attempt to assist Plaetton with his thoughts. His use of the word "random chaos" is contrasted with intelligent agency. Intelligent agency has a central organizing factor whilst random chaos has numerous factors determining causality. Random chaos doesn't mean a total disobedience to physical laws or causality as most theists think it is. So Plaetton uses that word for this special meaning. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 2:06pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
Kay17: Thank you. I had earlier used the phenomena of Brownian Motion to illustrate and emphasize this fine point. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 2:16pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
Kay17: "Natural" doesn't work as well as "accident" when trying to contrast against "intelligent design". especially when the question is whether Natural processes suggest intelligence. To use the word "natural" as in Whether goats originate naturally as opposed to by intelligent design begs the question as it assumes one of the positions that it is required to prove. Thanks for your suggestion anyway, but I'll stick with the original phrasing. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 2:17pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Wikipedia. A system is a set of interacting or interdependent component parts forming a complex/intricate whole. Dictionary.com an assemblage or combination of things or parts forming a complex or unitary whole Complex means composed of interconnected parts. So system covers both complex and functional. Now mountains and the watery cycle can be identified not just as a whole but divided into parts which work together. A river feeds the ocean which in turn feeds the river and its source via evaporation. A mountain similarly is naturally forged from multiple bits, it stands on a foundation etc 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 2:24pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Your inquiry seeks for an alternative to intelligent agency. For goats, is there an alternative to why they are here? In the absence of an intelligent agency, there is the default position. For the theists we debated on this thread, the default is nothingness to which I disagree. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by orisa37: 2:27pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
You are bullying for answers. This means that you're not natural but artificial. Nature has same Code, same number as Mother. That's why all philosophies make references to "Mother/Nature". Nature is Spirit, good and bad. It's the Big Bang that the Supreme Spirit exploded to reveal His Master Piece, the Creations and the creatures. God created Nature in sIx days and rested on the seventh to appreciate the nature of His Works, Nature. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by MrAnony1(m): 2:31pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
Kay17: No sir, complex systems are not necessarily functional. A goat for instance is a complex system with specific interconnected parts such as legs, ears, eyes, a brain e.t.c. each of these parts are distinct and specifically work together in such a way that they are functional. e.g. the goat's eye's function is sight, and it is specifically located and connected in such a way that it performs this function quite well. i.e. it is not located inside the intestine for instance where it wouldn't be able to function properly. Similarly, the goat's legs are for specifically connected and located so that they can perform the function of movement. The same can be said for all the other parts of the goat. A goat is not merely a complex system, it is a complex FUNCTIONAL system. Now please can you tell me... 1. How exactly are Mountain ranges and Rift valleys complex, functional and a system? 2. How exactly are a rivers and their tributaries complex, functional and a system? 3. How exactly is forestation complex, functional and a system? 4. How exactly is Continental drift complex, functional and a system? 5. How exactly are Cloud formations, movement and dissipations. complex, functional and a system? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 2:43pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: For me, the purpose of interacting subcomponents is functionality (pragmatic value). It is hardly conceivable to find a system that is nonfunctional because all the parts unite to form an integrated whole. To me that is functionality. In the absence of functionality, the system breaks down. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by CoolUsername: 4:33pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Molecular self-assembly is not speculation. It has been observed time and time again by chemists, it is just a type of chemical reaction where base organic compounds organize themselves into ordered structures. There's no debating that. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 6:03pm On Mar 20, 2016 |
MrAnony1: Mountain ranges and Rift valleys share the same interconnectedness with their ecological environment that a goat has with it's eyes and limbs. The Mountain range, the Rift valley, the climate, the vegetation, the animal habitats, the preys and the predators all become intertwined by an endless series of random events. So, going by Kay17's definition of a functional system, the Mountain Range and Rift Valley are functional systems underpinned by a series of random events. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 11:19am On Mar 21, 2016 |
Joshthefirst: Well, it would be advisable. Don't you think so? 2 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 12:16pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
KingEbukaNaija: You make excellent marketing pro for the Toothfairy. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 2:22pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
plaetton: You do realise that all your claims are easily refutable (without exegesis) . This thread have shown that we theists have stronger arguments with the preponderance of evidences . Kay.17 in her little mind felt that no intelligence was required to bring forth complexity from nothingness . Seriously ? And your kind resort to ridicule in their furtile attempts to refute our arguments . Now sir , disprove my "claim" : God's foreknowledge of his creation as an all knowing entity gave him the intelligence to create from nothingness off course you won't ... cos you can't 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 2:25pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
MrAnony1: I think an example is a contraption |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 2:27pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
plaetton: For the umpteenth time , order from randomness and chaos can be a design concept . You need to bring tenable arguments that are cogent enough to preclude a creator . Na wa oo |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 2:34pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
Weah96: Just like the magic of nothingness bringing forth intelligence , consciousness , emotions and even complex systems . Magic without a magician - how irrational is that |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 2:46pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
KingEbukaNaija: magic without a Magician? How about a Magician without Magic? Even though I'm avoiding contributing much here because I don't see anyone defining what they mean by intelligence, or consciousness, or emotions……. I would like to ask, If 'intelligence, consciousness, emotions' (whatever they may actually be) are attributes of God and God has always existed, then can we say that Intelligence, Consciousness, and emotions have always existed? 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukaNaija: 3:03pm On Mar 21, 2016 |
PastorAIO: Yup And Christians will live eternally with these attributes . Mind births mind . These attributes were passed onto us . For everything to exist an ALL has to be eternal . Atheists believe nature unconsciously and vacuously (randomness and chaos) produced consciousness and intelligence |
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