[quote author=diegwu01 post=44899487] Iberia is nowhere near the top fliers.[/quote

Bros am not gonna argue with you. Am a frequent flyer ok. I know what is air travel. Am not sitting somewhere in Lagos analyzing what I red in books. Am writing from Amsterdam now. Am not an office boy, maybe not with multiple university degrees.

omonnakoda:
You are empty

And you are very full. Argument should be back and forth, not sticking to a single spot.

Bros am not gonna argue with you. Am a frequent flyer ok. I know what is air travel. Am not sitting somewhere in Lagos analyzing what I red in books. Am writing from Amsterdam now. Am not an office boy, maybe not with multiple university degrees

Imagine ! they quit because they could not repatriate their money...better. Why would they want to repatriate their money ? Can't they invest certain percentage in the country? We must teach some of this people real sense

NavierStokes:


Hehehe at this point I will refuse to speak further if you deliberately feign ignorance about Maduro or the outcry within our economy in terms of approaches or policies to be enacted.

Its a simple question really. I have actually been following this discussion to get ur reasoning as well. I for one, dont know about maduro or the venezuelian economy and would have liked an explanation.

It seems u are of the opinion, along with the IMf, that buhari shouldnt have tried to stop the freefall of the naira due to the crash in oil prices. Is that ur submission? Would dt have been a wise decision in the interest of nigeria or in the interest of other countries trading wt us? How would things have eventually stabilized, without an increase in oil price in sight? Should we have continued till N2000=$1 and then just see wht happens.

Im not sure dt is also a good pill to swallow. My opinion is dt its a balancing act & quite complicated. Theres no easy solution dt wont pinch us all. The problem is dt i also dont see how this buharis policy wont have an adverse effect on the economy.

Ive still not seen a perfect solution from anywhere though, cos none of the plans are perfect and problem free. Maybe its just a price we have to pay for our past foolishness. Or maybe someone brilliant can see an outside-the-box choice apart from naira devaluation vs currency protectionism.

janellemonae:


Its a simple question really. I have actually been following this discussion to get ur reasoning as well. I for one, dont know about maduro or the venezuelian economy and would have liked an explanation.

It seems u are of the opinion, along with the IMf, that buhari shouldnt have tried to stop the freefall of the naira due to the crash in oil prices. Is that ur submission? Would dt have been a wise decision in the interest of nigeria or in the interest of other countries trading wt us? How would things have eventually stabilized, without an increase in oil price in sight? Should we have continued till N2000=$1 and then just see wht happens.

Im not sure dt is also a good pill to swallow. My opinion is dt its a balancing act and quite complicated. Theres no easy solution dt wont pinch us all. The problem is dt i also dont see how this buhari policy doesnt have an adverse effect on the economy.

Ive still not seen a perfect solution from anywhere though, cos none of the plans are perfect and problem free. Maybe its just a price we have to pay for our past foolishness. Or maybe someone brilliant can see an outside-the-box choice apart from naira devaluation vs currency protectionism.

There is no explanation.He heard someone on CNN criticize Maduro so it has to be true but ultimately he cannot proffer any alternative course

I really wish someone like nkonjo iweala could give her thoughts on this currency situation we're having, based on her experience and what choice she would have made. I respect that woman a lot. I just think a lot of politicians & nigerians are playing politics, bigotry and passing the blame with this issue.

janellemonae:


Its a simple question really. I have actually been following this discussion to get ur reasoning as well. I for one, dont know about maduro or the venezuelian economy and would have liked an explanation.

It seems u are of the opinion, along with the IMf, that buhari shouldnt have tried to stop the freefall of the naira due to the crash in oil prices. Is that ur submission? Would dt have been a wise decision in the interest of nigeria or in the interest of other countries trading wt us? How would things have eventually stabilized, without an increase in oil price in sight? Should we have continued till N2000=$1 and then just see wht happens.

Im not sure dt is also a good pill to swallow. My opinion is dt its a balancing act & quite complicated. Theres no easy solution dt wont pinch us all. The problem is dt i also dont see how this buharis policy wont have an adverse effect on the economy.

Ive still not seen a perfect solution from anywhere though, cos none of the plans are perfect and problem free. Maybe its just a price we have to pay for our past foolishness. Or maybe someone brilliant can see an outside-the-box choice apart from naira devaluation vs currency protectionism.

Maduro represents everything that shouldn't be in governance, literally bringing a country down to get knees. Venezuela's problems a not tied to this period of oil prices, their problems had begun way before that but the oil prices further worsened things for them. A corrupt bus conductor that was out forth as Chavez's replacement against the havard trained economist leopoldo lopez. Well the country did everything Buhari is doing right now currency controls. Fixing the value of the bolivares and letting its value depreciate greatly in the black market, like in Nigeria, with that happening the economy began to fall apart, airlines couldn't repatriate their funds like In Nigeria now, they had to leave manufacturers had no ready access to forex this companies began to close down jobs became lost, the bolivares became devalued in the hands of the citzens while the government was maintaining a hard stance, salaries became meaningless, good and house hold items disappear from stores, You spend hours queuing up to buy simple things like tissues and have to visit several stores to get all the items in your shopping list, government introduced a means of using your unique numbers to go shopping on particular days that's if your id ends with a particular digit you can stop on a particular day and stores ration the product to buyers, not like you finally see what you want and buy as much as you want. Then to top it all the man is squaring off with the west at the same time and looking eastwards.

Well a pointer to one thing as they say, currency controls in a period such as this is the second fastest way to destroy an economy after the atomic bomb.


Coming down to Nigeria, the IMF plus investors plus experts warned severally that we do a devaluation, instead the government stubbornly held on to a false value (which you erroneously term, halting the slide) while the naira dropped rapidly to #320 at the parallel or real market. A marked devaluation.

I see you referring to okonjo iweala, she already gave us answers in the past by doing quick and timely Devaluations. Our currency was twice devalued under Jonathan in a period of falling oil prices, Even selling below budget benchmark And no body noticed it, inflation was single digit pure water sold for its normal price almost every thing sold for their normal prices, a marked pointer that someone was managing our economy well. Now Buhari refuses to devalue a decision backed by politics and emotions and not by any economic fundamentals And we see increases in prices everywhere we see double digit inflations.

This administration as in every other thing, stayed and watched the Naira depreciate so much in the parallel market before they could step in, (if it means nothing to them why did they try to stem the tide, they should have pretended its not their business and allow the currency to exchange at 1000). Rather they pretend Naira is 199 to a dollar, when only Dangote, Garba Shehu and Aisha have access to it at that price.

Coming now to devaluations proper as advised, a timely devaluation would have closed the gap between the parallel and the official markets, a huge chunk of the $20 billion dollars claimed to be held by Nigerian citizens would have found itself in the market, Foreign investors would have been able to come in (at this point I ask a question, will you as a business man pay full price for something you have already been informed or you know is worth less?) These foreign investors moneys would have still been circulating within the system, flowing into the hands of manufacturers etc plus everything else will proceed as it should be. to be arguing inflation, when the greater majority of businesses satisfy their demand for forex from the parallel market is a false argument, the prices at which we buy things today already reflects the value of the Naira at the parallel market, thus the anticipated inflation is already here with us.

I could go on but let me pause here...

tuniski:


The value of the naira by purchasing power parity is determine by a simple Concept thus; if the cost ccommoditiy A in USA is 3$ and same commodity A in nigeria cost 1000naira, the naira to dollar value is 1$/333naira. QED

Any official control/pegging only ensure poor economic performance and rent seeking. The premium of the naira via control is what is driving inflation.

It is not poor economy if 400naira goes for 1$, no it is not! What is wrong is creating incentives for black-market via subsidy on Forex thereby impeding economic activities.

By this false valuation of naira, we officially are losing about 35% in naira what it should be. If we earn 1bn$ and value it at 197bn naira instead of 320bn, the 123bn subsidy is reflected in cost to manufacturers, inflation to consumers and rent to round trippers. It helps only the round trippers who gain only currency transaction value without economic value backing!

Buhari simply doesn't get! Let himm continue to romance the Yuan thinking two peggers of their currency (China n nigeria) live in isolation of global economy.


Bottom line, the naira is already devalued with the sustained depreciation and the continue insistence by buhari not to yield to reality has created reality in job losses, inflation and overall recession. A govt that mouths diversification on one breath and stifle it On the other promoting dumping and importation!


May God help us.

omonnakoda:
There is no explanation.He heard someone on CNN criticize Maduro so it has to be true but ultimately he cannot proffer any alternative course

Sorry mister, you really believe Maduro is the best thing to happen to Venezuela, well I have gone on a protest match with Venezuelan friends and have Venezuelans that are very dear to me, just like I do have friends in almost every country of the world. You can keep ranting while the former bus conductor (Maduro) has stubbornly driven the country aground.

Sad thing is we have another one without certificates here in Nigeria threading the same path.

TPAND:


Gala really missed it with that size reduction. I be professional hold-up gala consumer. That new gala size is a no no... The dough is now stronger, the beef looks compromised in texture and less tastier than the usual Gala we use to know.

GBAM

#TeamGalaEaters
#BBOG (Bring Back our Gala)

NavierStokes:


Maduro represents everything that shouldn't be in governance, literally bringing a country down to get knees. Venezuela's problems a not tied to this period of oil prices, their problems had begun way before that but the oil prices further worsened things for them. A corrupt bus conductor that was out forth as Chavez's replacement against the havard trained economist leopoldo lopez. Well the country did everything Buhari is doing right now currency controls. Fixing the value of the bolivares and letting its value depreciate greatly in the black market, like in Nigeria, with that happening the economy began to fall apart, airlines couldn't repatriate their funds like In Nigeria now, they had to leave manufacturers had no ready access to forex this companies began to close down jobs became lost, the bolivares became devalued in the hands of the citzens while the government was maintaining a hard stance, salaries became meaningless, good and house hold items disappear from stores, You spend hours queuing up to buy simple things like tissues and have to visit several stores to get all the items in your shopping list, government introduced a means of using your unique numbers to go shopping on particular days that's if your id ends with a particular digit you can stop on a particular day and stores ration the product to buyers, not like you finally see what you want and buy as much as you want. Then to top it all the man is squaring off with the west at the same time and looking eastwards.

Well a pointer to one thing as they say, currency controls in a period such as this is the second fastest way to destroy an economy after the atomic bomb.


Coming down to Nigeria, the IMF plus investors plus experts warned severally that we do a devaluation, instead the government stubbornly held on to a false value (which you erroneously term, halting the slide) while the naira dropped rapidly to #320 at the parallel or real market. A marked devaluation.

I see you referring to okonjo iweala, she already gave us answers in the past by doing quick and timely Devaluations. Our currency was twice devalued under Jonathan in a period of falling oil prices, Even selling below budget benchmark And no body noticed it, inflation was single digit pure water sold for its normal price almost every thing sold for their normal prices, a marked pointer that someone was managing our economy well. Now Buhari refuses to devalue a decision backed by politics and emotions and not by any economic fundamentals And we see increases in prices everywhere we see double digit inflations.

This administration as in every other thing, stayed and watched the Naira depreciate so much in the parallel market before they could step in, (if it means nothing to them why did they try to stem the tide, they should have pretended its not their business and allow the currency to exchange at 1000). Rather they pretend Naira is 199 to a dollar, when only Dangote, Garba Shehu and Aisha have access to it at that price.

Coming now to devaluations proper as advised, a timely devaluation would have closed the gap between the parallel and the official markets, a huge chunk of the $20 billion dollars claimed to be held by Nigerian citizens would have found itself in the market, Foreign investors would have been able to come in (at this point I ask a question, will you as a business man pay full price for something you have already been informed or you know is worth less?) These foreign investors moneys would have still been circulating within the system, flowing into the hands of manufacturers etc plus everything else will proceed as it should be. to be arguing inflation, when the greater majority of businesses satisfy their demand for forex from the parallel market is a false argument, the prices at which we buy things today already reflects the value of the Naira at the parallel market, thus the anticipated inflation is already here with us.

I could go on but let me pause here...

Mhmm. I understand what ur saying now and i can see how nigeria can go down that road wt these protectionist measures. I know that nkonjo iweala dealt with this issue in the past and devalued but i think she could do that because we had adequate forex savings to cushion the shock.

She explained it last year in this discussion at the council on foreign relations: http://www.cfr.org/nigeria/assessing-nigerias-economy/p36427
Abt this artificial pegging, i think its somewhat reducing the freefall in the parallel market cos i can see it easily getting to N1000-$1 within a week, if some companies werent getting dollars for a cheaper price .eg. for oil imports. Do u think u could devalue now though without other problems occuring? One that comes to mind easily is inflation since we import everything and our manufacturers import everything and we still wont have sufficient revenues for any wage increases, pples wages are already being halved in some states.

Anywayz whatever way we go, nigerians will still suffer.

NavierStokes:


Sorry mister, you really believe Maduro is the best thing to happen to Venezuela, well I have gone on a protest match with Venezuelan friends and have Venezuelans that are very dear to me, just like I do have friends in almost every country of the world. You can keep ranting while the former bus conductor (Maduro) has stubbornly driven the country aground.

Sad thing is we have another one without certificates here in Nigeria threading the same path.

Please explain how devaluation would have kept Iberia back in Nigeria. Right now nothing stops them from buying in the black market.
Your offering is emotional twaddle totally bereft of logic or analysis. What significance is it that Maduro is or was a conductor and why are you so fixated on that.
Devaluation is not an event it is a process and once you start you do not stop as Babangida found out still it solves nothing.
The problem is our economy is not diversified and we rely too much on imports. We also have serious power deficit issues
Solving those are long term issues and would have been fixed by now if devaluation was the solution. It is not. Why have the Chinese who are the most significant investors in Nigeria outside OIL not insisted on devaluation? they keep coming to invest
Going on a protest march with Venezeluans makes you an economist? Don't be ridiculous.

omonnakoda:
Please explain how devaluation would have kept Iberia back in Nigeria. Right now nothing stops them from buying in the black market.
Your offering is emotional twaddle totally bereft of logic or analysis. What significance is it that Maduro is or was a conductor and why are you so fixated on that.
Devaluation is not an event it is a process and once you start you do not stop as Babangida found out still it solves nothing.
The problem is our economy is not diversified and we rely too much on imports. We also have serious power deficit issues
Solving those are long term issues and would have been fixed by now if devaluation was the solution. It is not. Why have the Chinese who are the most significant investors in Nigeria outside OIL not insisted on devaluation? they keep coming to invest
Going on a protest march with Venezeluans makes you an economist? Don't be ridiculous.

Now your mind strikes me as warped. I'll leave here now for a meeting and hopefully can talk afterwards. Don't keep changing the goalpost or making somethings out of nothings. You said I watch Venezuelan events on CNN, and I have told you how I have strong relationships to the point of also marching with them. About SAP and I have already stated that IBB didn't follow through on what was required of him. You pick faults about me saying Maduro was a conductor, as though a conductor you pick on the streets today is capable of making sound economic decisions.
If you are interested for a civil discuss, I will be at my computer later tonight, or can chat you in between meetings.

Thank You SIR

On the bright side, If Nigerians want to continue to travel abroad from Nigeria, they will have to patronize Nigerian operated airlines which will boost local patronage.
But still Nigerian operated airlines may face restrictions to their destinations if they do not at least make the foriegn airline funds available for use in countries that can service the aircraft or countries where the aircraft are produced and purchased.
How will Nigerian operated airlines get funds into countries that can service and provide aircraft for Nigeria?

This is what results when Nigeria manipulates international currency flow before first making sure Nigeria has productivity to feed its own needs and export destinations. Currency is just paper and needs productivity to put value behind it. Even Gold is a product that has to be mined and worked.

Unless this is all just a wise decison making process in the high a mighty cause of living with less in order to preserve the planet earth. Maybe the plan is to have all Nigerians become humble cow herders At least that will be productive and also smell like cow feces.

You can't fix Nigeria currency by holding back the flow of other currencies especially when the economy is very dependent on import of goods and services such as airlines. It will only strain the economy and force the currency into a fall of desperation.
Productivity needs to be the first and major thing to focus on, and productivity must be seriously bolstered before currency manipulation can be relatively safe. But as far as fuel scarcity and no electricity supply go, there is no sign that Nigeria's productivity has a stable promise any time soon. In fact, stability of what is on hand should come first, then followed by enhanced productivity and then currency issues follow last. The root of all of this is Corruption. It all started as measures to stop Corruption money from being able to easily move. Now it is affecting every sector.
And if the currency policy is reversed today, coruption will find it's way in again. Its a very precarious place with damage waiting on all sides.
I think the corruption cases and repatriation of looted funds will continue for a while more and then the currency policy will be changed to relieve international businesses. Some times people have to incur damage to fight off a terrible monster that would otherwise kill. Some damage is better than total loss or hopelessness.
The only insulation for an economy is it's own viable productivity even if only for self sustenance. Nigeria is not self sustaining and insists on a lifestyle that it cannot sustain without greatly enhanced productivity. And it must be very diverse productivity.

ifenes:
Change is not easy. It goes through a painful process. If you want change,be ready to suffer a bit. Nigeria is undergoing the right process and at some point,her citizens will realize it.

JUST one word for u: GERARAHIAMEN

NavierStokes:


Maduro represents everything that shouldn't be in governance, literally bringing a country down to get knees. Venezuela's problems a not tied to this period of oil prices, their problems had begun way before that but the oil prices further worsened things for them. A corrupt bus conductor that was out forth as Chavez's replacement against the havard trained economist leopoldo lopez. Well the country did everything Buhari is doing right now currency controls. Fixing the value of the bolivares and letting its value depreciate greatly in the black market, like in Nigeria, with that happening the economy began to fall apart, airlines couldn't repatriate their funds like In Nigeria now, they had to leave manufacturers had no ready access to forex this companies began to close down jobs became lost, the bolivares became devalued in the hands of the citzens while the government was maintaining a hard stance, salaries became meaningless, good and house hold items disappear from stores, You spend hours queuing up to buy simple things like tissues and have to visit several stores to get all the items in your shopping list, government introduced a means of using your unique numbers to go shopping on particular days that's if your id ends with a particular digit you can stop on a particular day and stores ration the product to buyers, not like you finally see what you want and buy as much as you want. Then to top it all the man is squaring off with the west at the same time and looking eastwards.

Well a pointer to one thing as they say, currency controls in a period such as this is the second fastest way to destroy an economy after the atomic bomb.


Coming down to Nigeria, the IMF plus investors plus experts warned severally that we do a devaluation, instead the government stubbornly held on to a false value (which you erroneously term, halting the slide) while the naira dropped rapidly to #320 at the parallel or real market. A marked devaluation.

I see you referring to okonjo iweala, she already gave us answers in the past by doing quick and timely Devaluations. Our currency was twice devalued under Jonathan in a period of falling oil prices, Even selling below budget benchmark And no body noticed it, inflation was single digit pure water sold for its normal price almost every thing sold for their normal prices, a marked pointer that someone was managing our economy well. Now Buhari refuses to devalue a decision backed by politics and emotions and not by any economic fundamentals And we see increases in prices everywhere we see double digit inflations.

This administration as in every other thing, stayed and watched the Naira depreciate so much in the parallel market before they could step in, (if it means nothing to them why did they try to stem the tide, they should have pretended its not their business and allow the currency to exchange at 1000). Rather they pretend Naira is 199 to a dollar, when only Dangote, Garba Shehu and Aisha have access to it at that price.

Coming now to devaluations proper as advised, a timely devaluation would have closed the gap between the parallel and the official markets, a huge chunk of the $20 billion dollars claimed to be held by Nigerian citizens would have found itself in the market, Foreign investors would have been able to come in (at this point I ask a question, will you as a business man pay full price for something you have already been informed or you know is worth less?) These foreign investors moneys would have still been circulating within the system, flowing into the hands of manufacturers etc plus everything else will proceed as it should be. to be arguing inflation, when the greater majority of businesses satisfy their demand for forex from the parallel market is a false argument, the prices at which we buy things today already reflects the value of the Naira at the parallel market, thus the anticipated inflation is already here with us.

I could go on but let me pause here...

This is the comparison to make and thanks for it.
The real issue is productivity of a nation, Japan is very productive and prefers it's currency stay low value so that the entire world can afford it's very viable products.
Venezuela is not a very productive country in the same way Nigeria is not very productive. Sure in terms of oil, they produce a lot. But it is not a good economy when it rests mostly on one product while not being in control of that product market internationally. Nigeria even takes lack of productivity to another level by not even being able to supply petrol to fuel vehicles or generators already compensating from lack of productivity in electricity supply. And let me not even mention piped potable water supply.
USA also relies on Oil and is a huge producer of oil. USA economy did not suffer so bad. Why? USA is a very productive nation so much so that china owes its immense productivity to productivity sent from USA to reside in China for the advantage of cheap labor. And even china seeks to keep it's currency devalued to make it's productivity accesible to all foreign markets.

Venezuela is so bad that even the productivity to make enough toilet paper for the country has been very low. And they think manipulating the paper currency will improve the economy? Nigeria is making the same mistake and flushing down the same toilet. It will be harder for the Naira to recover from the damage caused to the economy under the current currency policies than it would be to recover from allowing naira devaluation and more international currency flow(The natural devaluation would likely meet somewhere between 199 and 320). Because the restirction of currency flow stops all that flows with it, investments into productivity.
Local productivity is growing but in the same hand ,other previous productivities are falling out such as the airliners.
Leave currency alone and focus on productivity, coruption and recovering loot of past longer throats who started naira into trouble.

shamecurls:
Innoson should tap into this opportunity and start building passenger aircraft's for local and international route

bros u funny die....innoson wey never make motor finish

19naia:

This is the comparison to make and thanks for it.
The real issue is productivity of a nation, Japan is very productive and prefers it's currency stay low value so that the entire world can afford it's very viable products.
Venezuela is not a very productive country in the same way Nigeria is not very productive. Sure in terms of oil, they produce a lot. But it is not a good economy when it rests mostly on one product while not being in control of that product market internationally. Nigeria even takes lack of productivity to another level by not even being able to supply petrol to fuel vehicles or generators already compensating from lack of productivity in electricity supply. And let me not even mention piped potable water supply.
USA also relies on Oil and is a huge producer of oil. USA economy did not suffer so bad. Why? USA is a very productive nation so much so that china owes its immense productivity to productivity sent from USA to reside in China for the advantage of cheap labor. And even china seeks to keep it's currency devalued to make it's productivity accesible to all foreign markets.

Venezuela is so bad that even the productivity to make enough toilet paper for the country has been very low. And they think manipulating the paper currency will improve the economy? Nigeria is making the same mistake and flushing down the same toilet. It will be harder for the Naira to recover from the damage caused to the economy under the current currency policies than it would be to recover from allowing naira devaluation and more international currency flow(The natural devaluation would likely meet somewhere between 199 and 320). Because the restirction of currency flow stops all that flows with it, investments into productivity.
Local productivity is growing but in the same hand ,other previous productivities are falling out such as the airliners.
Leave currency alone and focus on productivity, coruption and recovering loot of past longer throats who started naira into trouble.

I notice how most citizens look at this whole issue from a very small lens. It's better to look at the big picture but through a larger lens. Sorry for my typos, using my phone on the go.

Anyone can say "let us be wise" assuming of course,that he is wise but what is the test and validation of that? That an idea seems good to you does not make it good

babyfaceafrica:
Nothing they happen....who iberia help?......

They help export ashawos to Spain.