analice107:

She has the right to say WHAT SHE THINKS, about the morality of the punishment?
Really? Who sets the boundaries for that morality? Her?
Yahweh created his earth. Decided to create animals differently. It was his prerogative to create man differently from other animals. He created him in his image.
God is not mortal, He is immortal, He is a spirit, invisible. In that same way he created man.
But if man remains in that state, how can he be visible in a visible, material earth? hence; the body which houses the spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For while we are still in this tent, (body) we groan under the burden and sigh deeply (weighed down, depressed, oppressed)—not that we want to put off the body (the clothing of the spirit), but rather that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal (our dying body) may be swallowed up by life [after the resurrection].

He decides to set his rules over his creation as it pleased Him. she wasn't there, her opinion wasn't sort. Now she has the right to think about the morality of the punishment?
Does God answer to her?

@ bolded, man is a spirit in a body? and you got that by your added explanation(in brackets) of 2 cor 5:4 ?
when will you guys stay on to one thing!
pls tell us, what does man go these Hellfire with sef, his spirit, his body or his soul?,
some one said body and soul can be destroyed in hell, another person Said Jesus preached to the spirits in hell. abeg, does the whole 3 supposed components of man go to hell when he dies.

as to the justification thing, will you suscribe putting pepper in the anus of your child for 10 years cus he stole ones? at least you are created in God's image too.

kennycanny:


How ll you see it if your mum judgement is to continue punishing you like you described above for the next 10 years?

I think what the op want you to justify is the fairness of punishing someone for eternity for a finite crime.

No, she didn't have to punish me for that long, that's because I changed.

What do you call a finite crime?

Guy, hold up. My mother is not God. I just told that story in responds to the illustration dorox used.
There's no way you can go about justifying eternal punishment.

God is not going to judge the sin or crimes of killing, stealing or raping, per say. What God will judge is a NATURE. There's the nature of God and there's the nature of Satan which keeps man prisoner and propels man to sin.

When Man fell, he changed sides. He adopted Satan as his master and dropped God's nature.
But God didn't leave him completely in the hands of Satan, that's why there's a way out, JESUS.

Apst Paul found himself possessing that nature of sin once, when he cried out, Christ heard him and gave him the new nature.
It's that New nature we need to access the kingdom of God and his Christ. Without that nature, even God can't help you. He can't go back on his words.

If you read Romans 7:16-21,23-25
Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh.

I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]

For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.

Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts]

but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul].

So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.

But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].

O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am!

Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?

O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

theres a nature of sin in man which needs dropping and a new nature in Christ taken up, without that, no hope for anyone who stands here wailing.
Before we justify hellfire, let's justify man's continuous rebellion against God.

There is no way we will be able to morally justify eternal punishment.

analice107:

No, she didn't have to punish me for that long, that's because I changed.

What do you call a finite crime?

Guy, hold up. My mother is not God. I just told that story in responds to the illustration dorox used.
There's no way you can go about justifying eternal punishment.

God is not going to judge the sin or crimes of killing, stealing or raping, per say. What God will judge is a NATURE. There's the nature of God and there's the nature of Satan which keeps man prisoner and propels man to sin.

When Man fell, he changed sides. He adopted Satan as his master and dropped God's nature.
But God didn't leave him completely in the hands of Satan, that's why there's a way out, JESUS.

Apst Paul found himself possessing that nature of sin once, when he cried out, Christ heard him and gave him the new nature.
It's that New nature we need to access the kingdom of God and his Christ. Without that nature, even God can't help you. He can't go back on his words.

If you read Romans 7:16-21,23-25
Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh.

I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]

For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.

Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts]

but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul].

So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.

But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].

O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am!

Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?

O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

theres a nature of sin in man which needs dropping and a new nature in Christ taken up, without that, no hope for anyone who stands here wailing.
Before we justify hellfire, let's justify man's continuous rebellion against God.

Man is created with this our sinful nature. God can decide not to use Adam sin to punish billions of humans after him.

I guess you ll not like to use the sin of your first born to permanently punish the other siblings.

analice107:

No, she didn't have to punish me for that long, that's because I changed.

What do you call a finite crime?

Guy, hold up. My mother is not God. I just told that story in responds to the illustration dorox used.
There's no way you can go about justifying eternal punishment.

God is not going to judge the sin or crimes of killing, stealing or raping, per say. What God will judge is a NATURE. There's the nature of God and there's the nature of Satan which keeps man prisoner and propels man to sin.

When Man fell, he changed sides. He adopted Satan as his master and dropped God's nature.
But God didn't leave him completely in the hands of Satan, that's why there's a way out, JESUS.

Apst Paul found himself possessing that nature of sin once, when he cried out, Christ heard him and gave him the new nature.
It's that New nature we need to access the kingdom of God and his Christ. Without that nature, even God can't help you. He can't go back on his words.

If you read Romans 7:16-21,23-25
Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh.

I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]

For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.

Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts]

but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul].

So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.

But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].

O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am!

Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?

O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

theres a nature of sin in man which needs dropping and a new nature in Christ taken up, without that, no hope for anyone who stands here wailing.
Before we justify hellfire, let's justify man's continuous rebellion against God.

In your case the objective of the punishment was to help modify your behaviour, but in the case of hellfire there seem to be no other objective apart from torture just for the sake of torture. Can you not see this important difference? It is what makes the concept of hell evil to me, just keeping people alive forever in order to subject them to the most unimaginable pain with no intention of letting them get redemption from their suffering.
Is your sense of compassion so dead that you can't see that only the devil can dream of this kind of lie against the Most Holy Person of God?

Hellfire—Is It Part of Divine Justice?
Have you ever seen someone tortured? We hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.

Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!

Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!

Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there.

Can you accept that? The Bible* says: “God is love.” (1 John 4 vs eight ) Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!

An Unreasonable Teaching
Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.

Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible, referred to above. Here is what the Bible says: “As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.” (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.

In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience the agonies of hellfire.

A Harmful Doctrine
Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god.

In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it. Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, “he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”—Psalm 146:4.

What's Punishment for Sin?
To read more, visit www.jw.org and you find satisfactory answers.

dorox:


In your case the objective of the punishment was to help modify your behaviour, in the case of hellfire there seem to be no other objective apart from torture just for the sake of torture. Can you not see this important difference? It is what makes the concept of hell evil to me, just keeping people alive forever in order to subject them to the most unimaginable pain with no intention of letting them get redemption from their suffering.
Is your sense of compassion so dead that you can't see that only the devil can dream of this kind of lie against the Most Holy Person of God?

Hahahahahahahaha. I can't believe this. So with all the scriptures a posted, am the one who is dreaming this hellfire schemes? On whose side are you this JW?
Which part of the "HELLFIRE WAS NOT MADE FOR MAN DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?" ANY MAN WHO ENDS THERE CHOSE IT

why are you so hooked on the punishment but nothing on the rebellion or the way out that man has refused to take? What is wrong with you?

Since we started this discussion, I have been asking you to pls let's talk about man's responsibility for once, but you will never hear of it. All you are interested in is hellfire. Hellfire is the end product not the process. Let's talk about the process for once, but no, you won't. Imaooooo.

kennycanny:


Man is created with this our sinful nature. God can decide not to use Adam sin to punish billions of humans after him.

I guess you ll not like to use the sin of your first born to permanently punish the other siblings.

Ohhhhhh Jesus. This people no go kill me Ooo.
Oga, u dey follow this discussion at all? Yes Adam sin, Him sin bring ANOTHER NATURE ALLIAN FROM THE ONE WEY MAN BEEN COLLECT FROM GOD HIM PAPA BEFORE HIM DECIDE TO CHANGE PAPA. WHEN HIM SIN, HIM CHANGE PAPA, SO DROP THE FIRST PAPA, COLLECT THE SECOND PAPA. AND THAT SECOND PAPA ALSO GET HIM OWN NATURE. Na that second PAPA nature be the issue now. JESUS COME SAKE OF SAY, MAKE MAN receive back that nature wey him by himself trowey Ooo. But man no gree receive the new nature wey Jesus bring.
And if you still get that Satan nature, take am die, Omo, na hellfire Ooo. No be weytin you do, Na the nature you get, wey dey make you do the things wey u dey do, God go judge.

Jesus' free gift of salvation is still free. pls accept it and toss hellfire away.
I don't understand people. Na waoo.

analice107:

Hahahahahahahaha. I can't believe this. So with all the scriptures a posted, am the one who is dreaming this hellfire schemes? On whose side are you this JW?
Which part of the "HELLFIRE WAS NOT MADE FOR MAN DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?" ANY MAN WHO ENDS THERE CHOSE IT

why are you so hooked on the punishment but nothing on the rebellion or the way out that man has refused to take? What is wrong with you?

Since we started this discussion, I have been asking you to pls let's talk about man's responsibility for once, but you will never hear of it. All you are interested in is hellfire. Hellfire is the end product not the process. Let's talk about the process for once, but no, you won't. Imaooooo.

We are both in agreement that the bible speaks of divine judgement on all who rebel against God. I think their punishment will be an everlasting death, while you think they will be tortured in hell forever. This is where we have a difference of opinion and what my op is about. Is death not enough for sin? What does everlasting torture achieve? Please address these issues.

dorox:


We are both in agreement that the bible speaks of divine judgement on all who rebel against God. I think their punishment will be an everlasting death, while you think they will be tortured in hell forever. This is where we have a difference of opinion and what my op is about. Is death not enough for sin? What does everlasting torture achieve? Please address these issues.

I don't think, the Bible said so. Jesus Christ of Nazareth said so.

Here is the parable in his very words, so that you won't say it's just a parable.

Matthew 13:24-27,37-44 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?


Here is the interpretation of the above parable.

He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom;

the darnel is the children of the evil one,

And the enemy who sowed it is the devil.


The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels.


Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age.


The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly,


And will cast them into the furnace of fire;

there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth.

Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.

The kingdom of heaven is like something precious buried in a field, which a man found and hid again; then in his joy he goes and sells all he has and buys that field

Could this be my thought?

There are any more scriptures like this. Keep running away eh.
Am done with you.

Scholar8200:
Or what could one do in one lifetime to deserve an eternity in Heaven?

Very good question. Why they won't talk about eternity with God is what baffles me. Satan hold these people no be small oo?

dolphinheart:
Some do believe in Hellfire due to experience. A man comes into your home, kills your husband , your children and takes your 3 month old baby away, only to find the mutilated corpse of that baby few weeks later. The woman will not be blamed if she wishes that man who committed those atrocities a lifetime of pain. but if God has promised you he will take away your pain, why do you still wish that the man continues to suffer after your pain has been taking away and joy added to your gift of evalasting life. If God told you that the man that brought you such pain no longer exists, he is not in pain, not feeling anything, would such knowledge make you less happy?

The God that created man, told us in his book to man, what man is, he also had recorded what he told that man about where he is going when he dies, what will happen to him when he dies. how will such man feel when he finds out that he is not where God said he will be when he died, nor in a condition God said he will be when he died.

man was created, man was nothing before creation. if such creation( man) does not serve the purpose or reason of being created, the best thing to do is to uncreate him and return him to nothing. abi no be so ?

So very human reasoning.
Where then is the Justice you talk about? If God takes away the woman's pain and let the criminal go, what kind of God will that be? Then He has denied himself.
It's not even about the woman. It wasn't the woman who said thou shall not kill. It was God. So if a criminal does that, he, although hurt that woman, but his case is mainly with God who put that law.

He will recompense accordingly. He said his eyes are moving all over the earth watching the sons of men, that may reward them according to their deeds.
There's reward for very labor.

goodnews201668:


Your mum actually rub pepper on your anus?
That's a bit harsh, she may have thought she's doing you good after all.
But a considerate mum doesn't have to go that far to purnish a child.

Though she set you free at the end.

But then we are talking about eternal torment or burning someone in hell.

Is it morally justified for Almighty God to create a permanent place to burn people for a sin committed within few years spent on earth?

What will God gain by burning people? Nothing!
What will he gain if he simply destroys them? Absolutely nothing!
Again God frown at the idea of burning people, he even condemned people that did and said it never was in his plans or never planned to do so!

Why resurrect sinners judge them and throw them into hell?
God isn't a sadist.

If refuse life or refuse to live by rejecting Jesus and God's provisions for life, will it be fair and morally right for God to insist I must be giving life only to be tormented?

How will I veiw a God who make effort to turn me into spirit and set spiritual fire to burn me forever? Cruel?

We are created in the image of God, meaning we can reflect his qualities or act like him.
If we can't go to the extreme just to punish our disobedient children, How much more God who is a perfection of love?

Why not accept the new nature in Christ and put this hellfire matter to rest?

kennycanny:


There is no way we will be able to morally justify eternal punishment.

Who needs your justification? Was your opinion sort after, before the world or hell was created? Lekwa.

goodnews201668:
Hellfire—Is It Part of Divine Justice?
Have you ever seen someone tortured? We hope not. Deliberate torture is sickening and abhorrent. What, though, of torture inflicted by God? Can you imagine such a thing? Yet, this is exactly what is implied by the teaching of hellfire, an official doctrine in many religions.

Imagine, for a moment, the following horrific scene: A person is being roasted on a hot iron plate. In his agony he screams for mercy, but nobody listens. The torture goes on and on, hour after hour, day after day—without pause!

Whatever crime the victim may have committed, would not your heart go out to him? What of the one who ordered the torture? Could he be a loving person? In no way! Love is merciful and shows pity. A loving father may punish his children, but he would never torture them!

Nevertheless, many religions teach that God tortures sinners in an eternal hellfire. This, it is claimed, is divine justice. If that is true, who created that terrible place of eternal torment? And who is responsible for the excruciating agonies inflicted there? The answers would seem obvious. If such a place really exists, then God would have to be the creator of it, and he would be responsible for what happens there.

Can you accept that? The Bible* says: “God is love.” (1 John 4 vs eight ) Would a God of love inflict torture that even humans with any measure of decency find revolting? Surely not!

An Unreasonable Teaching
Still, many believe that the wicked will go to a fiery hell and be tormented forever. Is this teaching logical? The human life span is limited to 70 or 80 years. Even if someone perpetrated extreme wickedness for his whole lifetime, would everlasting torment be a just punishment? No. It would be grossly unjust to torment a man forever for the limited number of sins that he can commit in a lifetime.

Who knows the truth about what happens after we die? Only God can reveal this information, and he has done so in his written Word, the Bible, referred to above. Here is what the Bible says: “As the [beast] dies, so the [man] dies; and they all have but one spirit . . . All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.” (Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) There is no mention here of a fiery hell. Humans return to dust—to nonexistence—when they die.

In order to be tormented, an individual has to be conscious. Are the dead conscious? No. “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) It is impossible for the dead, “conscious of nothing at all,” to experience the agonies of hellfire.

A Harmful Doctrine
Some maintain that the teaching of hellfire is useful, true or not. Why? They say it serves as a deterrent to wrongdoing. Is that true? Well, is the crime rate in regions where people believe in hellfire lower than in other places? Hardly! In fact, the doctrine of hellfire is very harmful. Will a person who believes that God torments people view torture as something abhorrent? Why should he? Those believing in a cruel god often become cruel like their god.

In whatever way a reasonable person may look at the matter, he cannot accept the existence of a hell of torment. Logic rebels against it. Human nature is repelled by it. More important, God’s Word does not say that such a place exists. When a person dies, “he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”—Psalm 146:4.

What's Punishment for Sin?
To read more, visit www.jw.org and you find satisfactory answers.

You actually went to JW website to copy and paste? JW have a form of godliness but totally deny the power of the gospel which is supernatural. They are ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth. Chikina

analice107:

You actually went to JW website to copy and paste? JW have a form of godliness but totally deny the power of the gospel which is supernatural. They are ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth. Chikina

Refugee of lies, go back to the other thread and support ur criminal assumptions with the Bible.

i expect ur response to post tagged B1 - B5

Uu

analice107:

You actually went to JW website to copy and paste? JW have a form of godliness but totally deny the power of the gospel which is supernatural. They are ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of truth. Chikina

Yes it's from jw's website, and it's satisfactory.

analice107:

Why not accept the new nature in Christ and put this hellfire matter to rest?

That's not the issue, if hellfire exists there's nothing me and you can do to extinguish it. Nobody is denying Christ here what we are saying is that it's not morally right for the type God or the personality we read in the Bible to burn his own creatures forever for a few years sin.
Maybe you don't that he himself condemned burning people and said he had no such intentions. Jeremiah 7:31.

goodnews201668:


That's not the issue, if hellfire exists there's nothing me and you can do to extinguish it. Nobody is denying Christ here what we are saying is that it's not morally right for the type God or the personality we read in the Bible to burn his own creatures forever for a few years sin.
Maybe you don't that he himself condemned burning people and said he had no such intentions. Jeremiah 7:31.

Don't mind him/ her.

Instead to logically treat d question asked , he was busy saying why can't people use heaven and not hell.

But she ignore the fact that the bible clearly says that majority of people will go to destruction. I find it extremely difficult to sink it to my brain that a loving and merciful God ll burn majority of his creations in everlasting hell.

goodnews201668:


That's not the issue, if hellfire exists there's nothing me and you can do to extinguish it. Nobody is denying Christ here what we are saying is that it's not morally right for the type God or the personality we read in the Bible to burn his own creatures forever for a few years sin.
Maybe you don't that he himself condemned burning people and said he had no such intentions. Jeremiah 7:31.

Stop droping unquote scriptures, if you want us to treat a scripture, quoted it out.
Jeremiah 7:31
And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom [son of Hinnom], to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire [in honor of Molech, the fire god]—which I did not command, nor did it come into My mind or heart.

You are getting desperate and are beginning to grab straws. Does the above scripture have any bearing with eternity in hellfire? You now assume anywhere you see fire, it means it's fire of hell?

Pls my friend, don't make a mess of yourself.
Can't you see the above scripture is talking abt Idol worship? Sacrificing children to Satan?
Ah. @goodnews you have ran out of scriptures.
It would have made more sense if you picked those numerous scriptures Jesus Himself talked about hellfire and try like before to twist their meaning than this lame attempt.

Out of the numerous scriptures Christ taught hellfire

I chose to keep bringing this one, but like a plague, you have avoided it.

Here Christ used what is known to teach what is unknown. He used a parable, after which he explained the parable in plain language. Should I believe you don't see this scripture I keep posting?

Matthew 13:24-27,37-44 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?




STOP RUNNING AROUND, SETTLE DOWN AND TREAT THIS SCRIPTURE.

He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.

analice107:

So very human reasoning.
Where then is the Justice you talk about? If God takes away the woman's pain and let the criminal go, what kind of God will that be? Then He has denied himself.
It's not even about the woman. It wasn't the woman who said thou shall not kill. It was God. So if a criminal does that, he, although hurt that woman, but his case is mainly with God who put that law.

I dnt know if it's deliberate, but it seems that you sometimes say things not implied by the person you are quoting. nowhere in my statement have I ever said that God will let the criminal go, that your idea of justice is different from mine does not mean the wicked are not punished.

let me give you another scenario about this man that killed a woman's husband and children and slathered her baby in a cruel manner. 20 years later, this woman sees the man, he is now a pastor in her church. He met her and told her that he had now changed his ways and repented. will the woman still insist that the man should burn for eternity cus of the pain he inflicted on her? will the pain now go away or still remain cus the man had repented.? must vengeance be the end result of your pain?

these are questions you need to consider and answer and it will help you to understand the neccessity of hell. If you can forgive this man for a reason while alive in this world, why will you not forget about him when you are full of joy in God's new world. If then you can forget about him, how much more will it be easier for God to forget about him by un creating him and deleting him from existence. is that not better than for God to keep reminding you that a man is being tutured for the crime he committed in which caused you pain you are no longer feeling?

live a thousand years in full joy and bliss, and you will realise that anyone who had missed such opportunity is under some form of evalasting punishment, he does not have to be Tutured in other to be punished . nor will his Tuture add of remove from your the joy that awaits you.

He will recompense accordingly. He said his eyes are moving all over the earth watching the sons of men, that may reward them according to their deeds.
There's reward for very labor.

yes, reward them according to their deeds? no deed of man is equal to evalasting roasting. If you had ever really seen a real person being burnt alive, you will probably understand.
part of my last post: The God that created man, told us in his book to man, what man is, he also had recorded what he told that man about where he is going when he dies, what will happen to him when he dies. how will such man feel when he finds out that he is not where God said he will be when he died, nor in a condition God said he will be when he died.
man was created, man was nothing before creation. if such creation( man) does not serve the purpose or reason of being created, the best thing to do is to uncreate him and return him to nothing. abi no be so ?

dolphinheart:


I dnt know if it's deliberate, but it seems that you sometimes say things not implied by the person you are quoting. nowhere in my statement have I ever said that God will let the criminal go, that your idea of justice is different from mine does not mean the wicked are not punished.

let me give you another scenario about this man that killed a woman's husband and children and slathered her baby in a cruel manner. 20 years later, this woman sees the man, he is now a pastor in her church. He met her and told her that he had now changed his ways and repented. will the woman still insist that the man should burn for eternity cus of the pain he inflicted on her? will the pain now go away or still remain cus the man had repented.? must vengeance be the end result of your pain?

these are questions you need to consider and answer and it will help you to understand the neccessity of hell. If you can forgive this man for a reason while alive in this world, why will you not forget about him when you are full of joy in God's new world. If then you can forget about him, how much more will it be easier for God to forget about him by un creating him and deleting him from existence. is that not better than for God to keep reminding you that a man is being tutured for the crime he committed in which caused you pain you are no longer feeling?

live a thousand years in full joy and bliss, and you will realise that anyone who had missed such opportunity is under some form of evalasting punishment, he does not have to be Tutured in other to be punished . nor will his Tuture add of remove from your the joy that awaits you.



yes, reward them according to their deeds? no deed of man is equal to evalasting roasting. If you had ever really seen a real person being burnt alive, you will probably understand.
part of my last post: The God that created man, told us in his book to man, what man is, he also had recorded what he told that man about where he is going when he dies, what will happen to him when he dies. how will such man feel when he finds out that he is not where God said he will be when he died, nor in a condition God said he will be when he died.
man was created, man was nothing before creation. if such creation( man) does not serve the purpose or reason of being created, the best thing to do is to uncreate him and return him to nothing. abi no be so ?

Maybe it's me as you said, but you said if God will take the pain away from the woman, why should she worry? You didn't make any mention of what God should to the criminal. Or did you and I missed it?

You dolphinheart are clever or you think you are. Now you have added the angle of repentance. Why didn't you include it in your first post so that we could treat it together?
Listen, just like it doesn't take a criminal to kill twice before he is termed as a killer, so also it doesn't take him a lifetime to repent of his crimes.

My forgiving the criminal is something I must do, because he who says to a criminal "Thou shall not kill", also said to me "If you forgive not men their trespasses, your father who is in heaven will not forgive you your own trespasses". But this matter is not about me. Whether I forgive him or not, if he doesn't repent and dies in that state, he will stand judgement if found guilty by reason of his resisting the free gift of Christ' nature which would have empowered him to live right. Every guilty person gets sentenced.
Wait... What do you consider to be fair punishment justifiable enough for a man who is found without the nature of Christ?

You Know What? If we will not treat man's responsibility in this whole matter, then am done talking to you. All you see is hellfire, you refuse to see its a choice they make.
I don't get it at all. It's wrong for men to burn, but you don't see anything wrong with man's rebellion.
You don't see anything wrong with the fact that they reject the road that leads away from hellfire.
And I keep saying, it's not basically the theft or murder on themselves that leads men there but the satanic nature in them which propels them to commit those cries. So long as that nature is in them they are enemies to God, and God made hell for his enemies.
Why have you people not mention that nature even for once? Are you people advocating for Satan?
Am done with you sir.

analice107:

Stop droping unquote scriptures, if you want us to treat a scripture, quoted it out.
Jeremiah 7:31
And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of Ben-hinnom [son of Hinnom], to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire [in honor of Molech, the fire god]— which I did not command, [size=26] nor did it come into My mind or heart. [/size]


You are getting desperate and are beginning to grab straws. Does the above scripture have any bearing with eternity in hellfire? You now assume anywhere you see fire, it means it's fire of hell?

Pls my friend, don't make a mess of yourself.
Can't you see the above scripture is talking abt Idol worship? Sacrificing children to Satan?
Ah. @goodnews you have ran out of scriptures.
It would have made more sense if you picked those numerous scriptures Jesus Himself talked about hellfire and try like before to twist their meaning than this lame attempt.

see your life , instead of u to address the scripture he gave you, u are here attacking his personalty . see you

Now raise ur eyes to the bold , what do u see ? people burning their own sons and daughter in fire , same thing u accuse God of doing.

the vital point in that scripture is that God see that act as criminal , he said @ color Such as never come into my heart , if such idea never come into his heart, u begin to realize that the hellfire doctrine is of the devil. only the devil and his demons could come up with such a wicked and sadistic idea of torture.

Out of the numerous scriptures Christ taught hellfire

I chose to keep bringing this one, but like a plague, you have avoided it.

Here Christ used what is known to teach what is unknown. He used a parable, after which he explained the parable in plain language. Should I believe you don't see this scripture I keep posting?

Matthew 13:24-27,37-44 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?




STOP RUNNING AROUND, SETTLE DOWN AND TREAT THIS SCRIPTURE.

He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age,


and the reapers are angels. Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and [size=23] grinding of teeth. [/size]

Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.

Christ knew Jer 7:31 so well, so his teaching here never ever support the hellfire teaching

1. @ bold ... teachers of hellfire said its when people die tht they arw immediately sent to hell , BUT can you see how Jesus destroy that notion ? the harvest is the close , not when a man die.

2.see the color @ green ... Can u see Just as the weeds are burnes with fire ? hey , do weeds burn forever in fire ? thts a serious case for hellfire teaching , weeds are destroyed once and for all , and they die out of existence . Christ said the end of the wicked will be JUST AS weeds, analice eternal destruction perfetly illustrated not eternal hellfire . EXPOSED


3. this is funny,check the highlighted italics .. many think Jesua ia talkin about a pagan greek soul , but pls DO This SOUL HAVE TEETHS too ?

Now dorox, you talk of moral justification. By what ethics or standards or reference are you seeking a moral justification of or condemnation of Hell fire. In other words what acceptable ethos will God be violating by sending men to hell?

Scholar8200:
Now dorox, you talk of moral justification. By what ethics or standards or reference are you seeking a moral justification of or condemnation of Hell fire.

noise.

is the righteousness of 80 years enough to make a man deserve heaven ? answer this , then we will ask why a sin of the same 80 years is now enough to make a man deserver hellfire ?

Jozzy4:


noise.

is the righteousness of 80 years enough to make a man deserve heaven ? answer this , then we will ask why a sin of the same 80 years is now enough to make a man deserver hellfire ?

are you dorox? If no, then your post,I'm afraid, is the real noise (unwanted sound or post)

Scholar8200:
Now dorox, you talk of moral justification. By what ethics or standards or reference are you seeking a moral justification of or condemnation of Hell fire.

I am using the fact that God said that He is love, that is why I am finding it difficult to reconcile the act of torturing souls for eternity with one who is love.
Now, don't get me wrong, love does not deny responsibility nor does it condone wrongdoing or let the guilty walk free. What is does is to give us a path to salvation as long as we are alive. Since there is no pathway to redemption for the souls in hell, can you tell me the purpose of keeping those souls there in never ending torment?

dorox:

I am using the fact that God said that He is love, that is why I am finding it difficult to reconcile the act of torturing souls for eternity with one who is love.

But we cannot define love for God can we? Besides, God is a God of Justice! And the penitentiary prepared for the rebellious one is the Eternal torment in Fire, if we choose to be rebellious, toeing the part of the one who hell was made for, what justice will there be in mitigating the judgement (for one) for a crime for which two criminals are guilty of?

Now, don't get me wrong, love does not deny responsibility nor does it condone wrongdoing or let the guilty walk free. What is does is to give us a path to salvation as long as we are alive.

Indeed! Now if I turn away the neck from that, who is to blame?

Since there is no pathway to redemption for the souls in hell, can you tell me the purpose of keeping those souls there in never ending torment?

There was a pathway which they shunned when they could have being saved! Being in hell is more then like a consequence of the choice they made; and since God is Eternal an He has said both sides are Eternal, it is just Who He is and how He has made us!

analice107:

Hahahahahahahaha. This guy. Why won't you talk about people enjoying in heaven for once? After all, they were all given the same opportunity to choose. One chose hellfire so he will burn. Why is that God's fault? See us here right now talking about this issue, why do you refuse to Accept Jesus and choose heaven? Why are you holding so tightly on hellfire? Do you think anything about it will change?
What business do you have with hellfire? Was it created for you? Are you Satan or a demon? Well, if you yoke yourself with them, where ever they go, you will go. Lekwa

The problem here is, you as an individual hw would you feel if you see ur "unrepented" parent or sibling crying, suffering and languishing in hell. You will feel cool uuuhh. Hw many times have u offended your parents growing up despite repeated scolding, guess ur hands or ur eyes have been plucked out right?

For me as a human, it is not morally upright goddamit. I love my family to make them go thru pains.

Much for a "all caring and loving god"

Rubbish poem.

......dada01

analice107:


When you began your commentary, I was looking forward to something out of this world, but you disappointed me in that you ended up speaking like a child.

Talking Divine Justice. Who sets the standards here? If God says thou shall not Steal how many times do you need to steal to become a thief?
How many times you need to disobey for it to be termed as disobedience?

God is indeed a lover of Justice, What then is Justice?
Let me tell you a little story.
Some years back, I was in an accident an was admitted in an hospital in the east, The medical Director of the orthopedic hospital I was, was also a consultant in Federal Medical Center. While he was there one morning, some armed men entered the maternity ward, taking the whole place hostage, they picked new born babies into the Ghana must go bags they came with and left.
Rumour has it that, money ritualists need this babies for money making.
How should God judge this case now?
If God sets the ritualists free because he is such a loving and merciful God , what about the families of this kids? What about this kids? Don't they have a right to life?

Why is your application of love only on one side?
God loves, why shouldn't man also love like his God?

If a man commits a crime, he is convicted by the court of law and be sent to prison. What is the divine court of law? In that court of law where is the prison?
Why are you not running wild blaming Judges for sentencing men to death as capital punishment? Is that not cruel? Why don't you call the Judges wicked? It's just a crime, the criminal should be set free.
Here is immediately a criminal is caught, straight to court, if found guilty straight sentencing. But God gives a criminal a long robe of 70 to 100 years. Yet that doesn't suffice.

If a man steals 2 cubes of Maggi, is he a thief? How many cubes of Maggi do you think he should steal before you will agree he is a thief?

Listen up professor, it's not about what he stole. God is not going to judge us by what we did basically. He will judge the NATURE which puts that criminal to that theft. The motive behind why you did it is what God will judge.
Bringing up a child who steals 2cubes of Maggi hoping you'd draw sympathy is lame. For a child who is not yet to the age of accountability will not be held accountable. You seem not to even know the God you are talking about.

Regardless of how much sin they commit, punish in hellfire is unjust according to who? You? So which is fair?
Boo, beyond this realm, there are just two options. It's either this or that.
The fairness is the long robe of 70 to a 100 years you are given here while still alive.

I find your thoughts about this whole matter very disturbing to say the least. You never seem to acknowledge that Man is a responsible being with a will to make his choices. You never seem to realise or be truthful enough to admit that man has not been left without an option. The world hasn't ended you know? The door is still open, why are you not pointing towards the way out of this hellfire to man now that we are still here?
This Luciferean gospel you people preach won't help you or anyone around you. Salvation is still free, why aren't you up shouting about it. No one is pushed to hellfire. We decide to go there or not, why is that so hard to grasp?
You talk only about the cruelty of God, have you met Christ? Am not saying believe in Him, am saying pick your Bible and read about him, just read, don't let what you read sink. Face value reading. Imaoooo.

You didn't address my point.

Our sense of justice enables us to know what punishment to give to the different crimes committed in the society. Not all criminals will bag the death sentence, some may be given a 12 months sentence or just probation. Our sense of justice enables us to give punishment in proportion to the wrongdoing.

We are not very different from God, infact we are smaller gods ourselves because we are created in Gods image. We can be sure that God has a higher sense of justice.

If we can feel disturbed to see criminals get burned, if we feel that burning a thief, for example can never be balanced on a scale, then God feels the same way too. Eternal torment is just too much of a punishment for a 70/80 life span.

Don't get it twisted because wicked people deserve to be punished. God does not and cannot condone wickedness. Infact he has promised to end wickedness.

How?

When God created Adam, he said if Adam disobeyed him he would "certainly die." - Gen 2:16, 17.
Death is the penalty for sin.

God said nothing about being punished in hellfire. If Adam and eve were in danger of being tormented forever, would it not have been fair to warn them of that?

God pronounced their sentence after their sin:

"in the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return." - Gen 3:19

Again, would it have been fair to tell Adam that he would be going back to the ground if he was really going to a fiery hell? Think about this.

Romans 6: 23 say " the wages sin pays is death(opp of life, not torture).."

God will completely destroy wicked people forever because they are not fit to have life, which is a blessing for meek ones. Psalm 37:9 say God will do away with wicked men.

This doctrine of hellfire was used to justify violence in the middle ages: Mary 1, the queen of England(1553 - 1558), known as "bloody mary" burned nearly 300 protestants at the stake, and reportedly said: "as the souls of heretics are hereafter to be eternally burning in hell, there can be nothing more proper than for me to imitate the divine vengance by burning them on earth."

Hellfire paints God as a monster. A person who could carry out the act of eternal torment as a punishment for any act of wickedness would be the most wicked and cruel person ever.

Satan is responsible for propagating this teaching. He's been a liar and he loves to malign Gods name.

BIBLESPEAKS:




You didn't address my point.

Our sense of justice enables us to know what punishment to give to the different crimes committed in the society. Not all criminals will bag the death sentence, some may be given a 12 months sentence or just probation.

We are not very different from God, infact we are smaller gods ourself because we are created in Gods image. We can be sure that God has a higher sense of justice.

If we can feel disturbed to see criminals get burned, then God feels even more disturbed too.

Don't get it twisted because wicked people deserve to be punished. God does not and cannot condone wickedness. Infact he has promised to end wickedness.

How?

When God created Adam, he said if Adam disobeyed him he would "certainly die." - Gen 2:16, 17.
Death is the penalty for sin.

God said nothing about being punished in hellfire. If Adam and eve were in danger of being tormented forever, would it not have been fair to warn them of that?

God pronounced their sentence after their sin:

"in the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return." - Gen 3:19

Again, would it have been fair to tell Adam that he would be going back to the ground if he was really going to a fiery hell? Think about this.

Romans 6: 23 say " the wages sin pays is death(opp of life, not torture).."

God will completely destroy wicked people forever because they are not fit to have life, which is a blessing for meek ones. Psalm 37:9 say God will do away with wicked men.

This doctrine of hellfire was used to justify violence in the middle ages: Mary 1, the queen of England(1553 - 1558), known as "bloody mary" burned nearly 300 protestants at the stake, and reportedly said: "as the souls of heretics are hereafter to be eternally burning in hell, there can be nothing more proper than for me to imitate the divine vengance by burning them on earth."

Hellfire paints God as a monster. A person who could carry out the act of eternal torment as a punishment for any act of wickedness would be the most wicked and cruel person ever.

Satan is responsible for propagating this teaching. He's been a liar and he loves to malign Gods name.

Okay, explain this scripture to me. And if you refuse to treat this scriptures then stay off my mention. I detest pretenders.

Matthew 13:24-27,37-44 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?



He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.

You are preaching a Luciferean gospel of God being too loving to judge sin.

analice107:


Okay, explain this scripture to me. And if you refuse to treat this scriptures then stay off my mention. I detest pretenders.

Matthew 13:24-27,37-44 Another parable He set forth before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel (weeds resembling wheat) among the wheat, and went on his way. So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also. And the servants of the owner came to him and said, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?



He answered, He Who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed means the children of the kingdom; the darnel is the children of the evil one, And the enemy who sowed it is the devil. The harvest is the close and consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the darnel (weeds resembling wheat) is gathered and burned with fire, so it will be at the close of the age. The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of offense [persons by whom others are drawn into error or sin] and all who do iniquity and act wickedly, And will cast them into the furnace of fire; there will be weeping and wailing and grinding of teeth. Then will the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God) shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let him who has ears [to hear] be listening, and let him consider and perceive and understand by hearing.

You are preaching a Luciferean gospel of God being too loving to judge sin.

Replay! haha
jozzy4 already did that .