₦airaland Forum

dolphinheart:
1. answer the question brocab, and stop giving excuses
2. stop lying brocab, on several occasions I've explained divine nature to you, posts in which you refuse to reply to , only to make the allegations several pages later.
3. stop making false analogy brocab, tell us where the holy has same divine nature with jesus ?


1. The questions have been asked months ago, there is no flash here!
2. I'm not pestering "us christians ," I'm asking you brocab!, the questions are directed to you brocab and not "us christians".
3. Who is "we" that you have been mentioning since sef?, I did not ask "we " anything, I asked brocab, and brocab has refused to answer.
not only had you refused to answer, you have also refused to quote and explain certain scriptures posted to you.


I did not ask anything from "us"

the questions are mostly numbered and spaced.
The scriptures verses you where asked to quote and explain has not changed.


it as been explicit from the beginning: " pls brocab, answer the questions and pls brocab , quote and explain this scriptures!

do I refuse any scripture you have provided to me ? no , most times I quote and explain them!


in ya mind!
you dnt believe any of our doctrines? ok , one of the doctrines of jehovahs witnesses doctrine is that followers of jesus are not supposed to participate in warfare , do you accept this doctrine or you believe that Jesus followers are supposed to participate in warfare, by warfare, I mean war among countries, nationalities, and tribes, e.g the nigerian civil war!

Another teaching is that fornicators, people who deliberately and continuously commit fornication after being found out, are not allowed to be part of the congregation. do you agree with these or not?



Nop, I'm not pushing for you to agree with me, that is far from my aim.

brocab, there are still isues at hand:

1. WRITTEN WHAAAT? pls point to what I've written and post it, anytime I say you said something, I endeavor to direct you to wheee and when you said it, so pls direct me and others to where I said " God and the Word is a two headed god"?
bunch of liars!

2. Brought what back to my attention, I know you desperately want him to bring those words he accused me of saying out, it pains you that he could not, hence you have to find alternatives!
..............................

And yet no response from you on the issue you yourself raised?
also up till now , you have not answered these questions
(ill find that post and point it to you)

......................................

you have also refused to respond to these questions and scripture:
[b]Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

Examine this questions brocab
1. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
2. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
3. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
4. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
5. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
6. You asked a question, the answer is yes, but ill like to ask you, what about the soul, why did you remove the soul when fomulating your question.

brocab , readers will note(again) that you have NOT quoted and explained ANY of the following scriptures :
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9,11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
17. 2 cor 1:3
18. Eph 1:3
19. 1 pet 1:3
20: 2Cor 8:6
21. 1 cor 15: 27,28

And a host of others
.............................................

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty!
................................................


YOU HAVE AGAIN ADDED LIES TO YOUR VIEWS.
Lets see if Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him:
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus!
King James Version

Joh 20:15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? SHE SUPPOSING HIM TO BE THE GARGENER, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

I dnt think the disciples would have been able to recognize Jesus more than Mary, she probably would have known Jesus from birth, and the picture of Jesus in her memory would have been sharper than a 100 mega pixel camera!
but here you are , lying again that Jesus was recognizable to those who knew him!
dnt you think Mary should have been able to recognise Jesus instantly if he had been raise in the same body he died in?
* this is a question ill hope you can give us answer to .
Do you notice how Jesus appeared to his disciples who had locked the doors, his actions transcends the physical realm, he appeared to them gram!, in a locked rooM!. yet until he showed them death dealing wound marks, that was when they believed they where swing the Lord.

brocab pls tell us
1. DOES SOME ONE FACE CHANGE WHEN HE OR SHE IS RESSURRECTED WITH THE SAME BODY HE OR SHE DIED IN?
2.DOES SOME ONE GETS RESSURRECTED WITH THE WOUND'S OR INJURIES THAT KILLED HIM?
If your assumptions are true, I bet during the ressurection, we will know those whose throut where slit, cus there will still be a gapping hole in there necks. and those whose brains where blown out will have a hole in their head, cus they will be resurrected with that same body!
before, I digress, let's further examine ya lie.
King James Version
Joh 21:4But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: BUT THE DISCIPLES KNEW NOT THAT IT WAS Jesus.
john 21: 12 New International Version
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
even after seing Jesus after his resurrecting, after being with Jesus for years, they still do not recognize Jesus at first glance. If Jesus had been resurrected with the same body he had died in, the disciples will have no doubt, they wunt need to even bother to ask the question that dared not to ask, "who are you".
Jesus had just showed them who he is, it is left for us to understand that they still had issues with Jesus physical features, despite knowing that the person inviting theM to a meal is actually Jesus.

I for one believe that only spirits do appear and dissappear at will!
spirits can manifest physical bodies of any liking for any particular purpose, the scriptures is awash with such occurrences, they can even use it to have sex sef!
sir do you ever read the scriptures at all.
It says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
human body is flesh and blood!
how then do you espect the king of gods kingdom to have flesh and blood while his Co rulers do not!
how do you expect the physical to rule in the spiritual realm.
brocab, Jesus was a spirit before he came to earth, was he not?
how come , you refuse him his spirit nature when he had accomplished the work he was sent to do here on earth?

dolphinheart:
backing down from where and what?

CAPTIVATOR:
baseless accusation

Barristter07:
johnw74






You didn't say "did captivator said he worshipped angels ?"
,

I asked brocab ' did HE said he worshipped angels?

, despite the fact that its clear I represent captivator with the PRONOUN " he " . grow up.

johnw74:
To start with you need to know that the Word is Spirit, and Jesus is flesh and blood, I haven't even mentioned Jesus here, but that doesn't matter to you who misquotes all over the place, liars do that.





false jw cannot ever admit to a wrong

the truth is as I said and according to the verse, that the Lord and His Spirit sent Isaiah


jozzy said the Lord Jehovah sent Isaiah through His Spirit
but the Lord Jehovah is Spirit
so jozz is saying the lord Jehovah sent Isaiah through the lord Jehovah


I was going to say Just believe the bible, but he won't do that, he need to change it all over the place to suit his false doctrines.


"the Lord and His Spirit in isaiah 48:16 is God and the Word"




In (brackets) is mine
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit (God and the Word), hath sent me.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me (God and the Word) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (God and the Word), and the Word was God.



Lie Lie jozzy

brocab:
You asked brocab nothing, you are such a lair, JW's worship angels, you do believe Michael is Jesus who came to earth, and after His death He returned the same way becoming Michael once more.
You JW's don't even believe their is a Christ who walked among men in the flesh. Your God is a angel.

brocab:
From the truth

Jozzy4:
he asked you that question, stop been a liar

Jozzy4:
this man go and sleep

alexis:
Of what things? - you have to be specific. Please be definite and specific so that your question can be addressed

Jozzy4:
phony lie lie , lol The Word is now different from Jesus ?

johnw74:
To start with you need to know that the Word is Spirit, and Jesus is flesh and blood, I haven't even mentioned Jesus here, but that doesn't matter to you who misquotes all over the place, liars do that.





false jw cannot ever admit to a wrong

the truth is as I said and according to the verse, that the Lord and His Spirit sent Isaiah


jozzy said the Lord Jehovah sent Isaiah through His Spirit
but the Lord Jehovah is Spirit
so jozz is saying the lord Jehovah sent Isaiah through the lord Jehovah


I was going to say Just believe the bible, but he won't do that, he need to change it all over the place to suit his false doctrines.


"the Lord and His Spirit in isaiah 48:16 is God and the Word"




In (brackets) is mine
Isa 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit (God and the Word), hath sent me.

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me (God and the Word) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (God and the Word), and the Word was God.



Lie Lie jozzy

alexis:
Then you not only having a reading but also a comprehension problem. The author categorically stated that Wisdom is used in a figurative manner. Did you or did you not read that?

johnw74:
Like I said you have no understanding at all, and cannot have without the Holy Spirit.

Lie Lie jozzy

alexis:
Stop being shallow minded. The link is claiming God's eternal attribute of Wisdom

alexis:
Then you don't know what textual interpretation is. I honestly think JW and muslims are more closely related in theology than even Christians. Read Proverbs 8 starting with verse 1 - the speaker is identified; it says:

Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice?

If that is not clear, read verse 12:

I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion.

You can continue reading Proverbs 8 and you will see that Solomon is taking an impersonal attribute of God and personifying it, a common literary feature of Wisdom literature. The reason why Solomon personified Wisdom as a woman is because the Hebrew word for it, hokmah, is feminine in gender.

The text is obviously speaking figuratively on how Yahweh acquired Wisdom, i.e. Yahweh got it by begetting or birthing it in order to use it to create everything. We know that it is figurative since Yahweh doesn't literally give birth in labor pains.

Another typical example in Proverbs is here:

Proverbs 3:13-20 = "Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gets understanding, for the gain from it is better than gain from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. The LORD BY WISDOM founded the earth; BY UNDERSTANDING he established the heavens; BY HIS KNOWLEDGE the deeps broke forth, and the clouds drop down the dew"

David, in the Psalms, wrote that God created everything that has been made in Wisdom:

Psalm 104:1-24 = "He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved. You covered it with the deep as with a garment; the waters stood above the mountains. At your rebuke they fled; at the sound of your thunder they took to flight. The mountains rose, the valleys sank down to the place that you appointed for them. You set a boundary that they may not pass, so that they might not again cover the earth. You make springs gush forth in the valleys; they flow between the hills; they give drink to every beast of the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. Beside them the birds of the heavens dwell; they sing among the branches. From your lofty abode you water the mountains; the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work. You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man's heart. The trees of the LORD are watered abundantly, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted. In them the birds build their nests; the stork has her home in the fir trees. The high mountains are for the wild goats; the rocks are a refuge for the rock badgers. He made the moon to mark the seasons; the sun knows its time for setting. You make darkness, and it is night, when all the beasts of the forest creep about. The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God. When the sun rises, they steal away and lie down in their dens. Man goes out to his work and to his labor until the evening. O LORD, how manifold are your works! IN WISDOM HAVE YOU MADE THEM ALL; the earth is full of your creatures."

The fact that Wisdom was used by God to create every created thing shows that Wisdom itself is not created since it existed before creation. That is what Proverbs 8:22 was talking about. Please read the Bible for yourself without depending on Watch tower magazines to interpret it.

God bless you

alexis:
Let us try and educate you a bit. Indoctrination can be a hard thing to shake off. The phrase, "firstborn of all creation," is not dealing with time but status and position. It does not mean that Jesus is the first created thing. It means that Jesus is the one who is preeminent, the most important. Read Hebrews 1:15-17 closely especially verse 16.

Jesus cannot be the first created thing because the Bible says in verse 16 that He created all things. Of course, God is not created, so when it is referring to all things being created by Jesus, we must conclude that He is divine, God manifested in the flesh when He was on earth. Naturally, this would mean that He is the preeminent one. This is the teaching that JW has issue with even though it is stated in the Bible, both yours and ours.

JW also claim that it was Jehovah that gave Jesus the power to create all things. Such doctrine can easily be refuted. In (Isaiah 44:24), it says: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the[b] maker of all things[/b], stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.

Here we see Jehovah stating clearly that He is the maker of all things. Basically, everything was created by Him. In Hebrews 1:16 = it says that it was Jesus that created all things; basically saying Jesus Christ is the maker of all things. As if that wasn't enough - In John 1:3 = It says it was Jesus that made/created everything and there was nothing that was made without Him.

The question then is: How can Jesus be created if He created all things. Please remember that ALL encompasses EVERYTHING and there is no exclusion. If the Bible wanted to be clear that Jesus created only certain things and not ALL things, it would have stated it. We use scripture that speaks authoritatively to interpret scripture that is not very clear. Can you please explain why Jesus is the creator and maker of ALL things that exist yet at the same time He was created. Also, the Bible never mentions Jesus as the master builder - it clearly said that through them NOTHING existed without him.

Regarding Proverbs 8:22, can you please show us where it stated that it was Jesus. Thanks

johnw74

the Word is the Spirit of God

johnw74

the Word-Jesus Christ

Jozzy4:
the Word is spirit , Jesus is flesh and blood. see how this liar twists a simple statement. lol, who is the Word ?

johnw74:
Like I said you have no understanding at all, and cannot have without the Holy Spirit.

Lie Lie jozzy

johnw74:
Lie Lie jozzy



The word is the Spirit of God as shown in scriptures earlier
The Word (Spirit) was made (flesh and blood) Jesus Christ

Like I said you have no understanding at all

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jozzy4:
This thread is making me love the Jehovahs Witnesses the more... see how they are unite in their teachings, but there opponents are scattered in their teaching.


solite3, nd brocab ... do u agree with johnw74 that Jesus is Gods spirit ?

Jozzy4:
confused johnw74



with that statement, johnw74 claim the Word is the holyspirit .

who is the Word ?



https://www.nairaland.com/2010346/jesus-really-god/13 .


confession . on top all your denial

Jozzy4:
the Word- Jesus Christ , abi ?

solite3:
Jesus and God is one Spirit. Oga why are you running away from my question it won't bite you. There is only one true God which is the supreme God. All other gods are false whether angel or man Now is Jesus a TRUE GOD OR NOT. YES OR NO

johnw74:
Truly, He is



Lie Lie jozzy

johnw74

To start with you need to know that the Word is Spirit, and Jesus is flesh and blood, I haven't even mentioned Jesus here,

johnw74:
Jesus Christ is the Word , duh
like I said you don't understand anything


Lie Lie jozzy

Jozzy4:
nobody is dribbling you man, you are the confuse person . the issue of true God or false God only applies to the sovereignty of the universe which doesnt belong to Jesus.


for example, the bible call humans Gods ... it will be foolish to ask if humans are true or false Gods because we don't fit into any of that category . our being God is due to having some authority not that we are the supreme being.

so also Jesus is not the supreme being , thus that question is invalid.

you can only ask if Yahweh is a true God or false God because he is the supreme being.

Jozzy4:
for where , where did u read that ? kikikikikj



very good , read John 17:3 where Jesus identified his Father as the only true God




Jesus is neither a true God nor false God. the same way he is not a good person or bad person. he said only is Father is good person , does it mean he is a bad person ?

apply the same logic and all my previous points will be clear to you

solite3:

Jozzy4:
go back and read my response to you.

johnw74:
I never said "Jesus is God's Spirit"

and I never said "Jesus is the Holy Spirit"
Even though the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit,

johnw74:
I never said "Jesus is God's Spirit"

johnw74

He is God's spirit

and I never said "Jesus is the Holy Spirit"

Even though the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit,

" The Word is the Spirit of God " - johnw74

Explained below :

" Jesus Christ is the Word " - johnw74

" the Spirit of God is the Holy spirit" - johnw74