Scholar8200:
Here Christ speaks to His church:

Revalation 2:14-16
But I have a few things against thee,... 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

[size=14pt]He commanded the peddlers of false doctrine in the church (yes they were part of the church) to repent else they will suffer the same judgement as would be meted on the antichrist and false prophet!
[/size]
Revelation 2:20-23

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And[b] I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not[/b]. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, [size=16pt]except they repent of their deeds[/size]. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

1. Just like Simon the sorcerer who believed and was baptized but had issues needing cleansing, there was a woman who was part of the church and had even began to express the teaching gift but was, before the Judge, a jezebel who was guilty of fornication and causing others to commit same (perhaps her dressing caused men to lust after her remember Matthew 5: 28) and she taught other false doctrines.

2. The Lord gave her space to repent. Exactly what happens when a believer sins- he/she is given space to repent and amend his/her ways at whatever cost. If such refuses to then it means he/she is a reprobate.

3. Recalcitrance and failure to repent brings us under God's judgment. I believe God uses the same measure with us as HE expects of us. How do I mean? If your brother trespass against you tell him and if he repents forgive him. Likewise when we trespass against Him He , by His Spirit/Word shows us, our response would be to repent. If we refuse to repent we are no different from a heathen and will be judged as such Matthew 18:17.

4. If our Advocate is here commanding certain believers to repent, how then do some say we dont need same IF we trespass or sin?

Now consider :
7 Little children, [size=13pt]let no man deceive you:[/size] he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:7,8

Let's not be deceived, we are saved by faith. If we sin against Him and refuse to make our way right, anyone who tells us all is well is a deceiver!

In addition, you quoted 1john 3:7-8. This is one of the verses preachers of righteousness by works quote to make themselves look ignorant to matured grace christians and to inject fear to baby christian. But, as I said, it ain't gon' happen here! Never!

7 Little children, let no man deceive you:he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

So many frustrated false preachers use the above verses to fight against righteousness by faith alone, but they will always fall.

To understand what john was saying, we have to question that verse in line with the scriptures!!

Question 1: was John saying that standing right with God comes through doing good works?

Question 2: how do we receive the free gift of righteousness?

Question 3: was john saying that good christians are sinless perfect and otherwise shows they are born of the devil?

The above question should be strictly answered with the scriptures so as not to create contradictions while trying to please our emotions.


Answer to Question 1: was John saying that standing right with God comes through doing good works?

To answer this, we have to know what righteousness is, how we are righteous before God, the basis on which it works on.

Firstly, being righteous before God means having right standing with God and it is a FREE GIFT given by grace(finished work of christ) and we receive by faith and not by doing good works.

Rom 5:17-19;"17. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18. Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the FREE GIFT(of righteousness/eternal life) came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
19. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by ONE MAN'S OBEDIENCE MANY WILL BE MADE RIGHTEOUS(by the gift of righteousness).

In the above verses, it is VERY CLEAR that standing right with God is A FREE GIFT that has been FREELY given BECAUSE OF JESUS' OBEDIENCE TO TAKE OUR WHOLE LIFE SIN PUNISHMENT ON HIMSELF BY DYING AT THE CROSS ON OUR BEHALF.

And that free gift of righteousness has been made unto AS A PERSON, who? Jesus!

1cor 1:30;"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God IS MADE UNTO US wisdom, and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and HOLINESS, and redemption:"

In conclusion, right standing with God EVIDENTLY does NOT come by doing righteous works, rather it is a FREE GIFT given through grace, which is IMPUTED and ACCOUNTED TO US by the faith we have in the finished works of christ. If not, then people like atheists who do righteous(good) works are seen righteous before God, but that's not so. If righteousness comes by living 100% according to the law of righteousness then christ death is USELESS. Why? Because if we can really live a life of 100% sinlessness, then he didn't have to die for anybody's sin, because we will have no sin to be paid for because we are all 100% right!

Gal 2:21;"I do not frustrate the grace of God: FOR IF righteousness(before God) come by the law of righteousness, THEN Christ IS DEAD IN VAIN(so useless)."


Answer to question 2: how do we receive the free gift of righteousness? We will answer that biblically!

Rom 4:2-9;"2. For if Abraham were justified by works(no more of grace), he hath whereof to glory; but NOT BEFORE GOD.
3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham
BELIEVED God, and it was COUNTED UNTO HIM for righteousness.
4. Now to him that worketh is the reward NOT RECONKED OF FREE GIFT(grace), but of debt.
5. But to him that WORKETH NOT , BUT BELIEVETH on him that JUSTIFIES the ungodly, HIS FAITH(not good works) IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
6. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God IMPUTETH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT GOOD WORKS,
7. Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are FORGIVEN, and whose sins are COVERED
8. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will NOT IMPUT HIS SINS".

To understand more let's read the same rom 4:20-25

Rom 4:20-25;"20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong IN FAITH, giving glory to God;
21 And being FULLY PERSUADED(faith) that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
23 Now it WAS NOT WRITTEN FOR HIS SAKE ALONE, that it was imputed to him;
24 BUT FOR US ALSO, TO WHOM IT SHALL BE IMPUTED, if we BELIEVE on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for OUR OFFENCES, and was raised again for OUR justification.

LET'S SEE MORE!!!!

Phil 3:9;"and may be found in Him [BELIEVING AND RELYING ON HIM], NOT HAVING any righteousness OF MY OWN derived from [my obedience to] the Law and its rituals, but [possessing] that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST, the righteousness which is comes(GIVEN FREELY) from God on the BASIS OF FAITH(not good works)"

Let's see more!!!!

Rom 3:21-28;"But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW(works of the law- good works) is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST(not good works) unto all and upon ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE(faith): for there is no difference:
23 For ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being MADE RIGHTEOUS FREELY BY HIS GRACE(jesus' death on our behalf) through the redemption that is in Christ
Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be an ATONEMENT FOR SIN(propitiation) THROUGH FAITH(not good works) IN HIS BLOOD(that was shed to atone our sins), to declare HIS righteousness for the remission of sins that are
past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS: that he might be just, and the JUSTIFIER OF HIM WHICH BELIEVETH IN HIM.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? OF GOOD WORKS? Nay: but by the law of FAITH(not works of righteousness).
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITH OUT THE DEED OF THE LAW."


So, it is very clear in the above verses!

We don't do good works to look righteous before God, other wise it is no more a free gift as says rom 4:4. In rom 4:5-6, we discovered that righteousness is IMPUTED FREELY on a man REGARDLESS of the state of his works. In rom 4:7; we discovered that we are blessed with the free gift of righteousness because OUR WHOLE LIFE SINS ARE FORGIVEN AND COVERED, because jesus has taken the punishment that we deserve for our whole sins ON OUR BEHALF! And by that, God shall NOT IMPUT our sins on us, because he imputed it on jesus, judge him for it ON OUR BEHALF, convicted him of being guilty of our sins ON OUR BEHALF, condemned and punished him for our sins ON OUR BEHALF.

That's how deep and broad the love of God is!! But the devil will always use "grace + works" false preachers to make people to be blind of this and make them to think that God wants us to be 100% right in actions before we MUST be right with him. But, the plans of the devil MUST fall, just the way he fail when he tried to attack the gospel with the gospel of nicolaitans.

In rom 4:20-22, we discovered again that Abraham receive righteousness by faith. And in rom 4:22-24, we discovered that we shall be imputed God's righteousness, just like abraham, IF ONLY WE BELIEVE ON JESUS, who was delivered for offences.

In phil 3:9, we discovered that GENUINE righteousness does not come from good works(obedience to law of righteousness), but from the faith we have in Jesus. And we were told at the same time, that God's personal righteousness comes from GOD, HIMSELF, ON BASIS OF FAITH and not on the basis of good works.

In rom 3:21-28; we can see that we are made righteous by faith even with out the deed of the law.

We are made righteous by faith in jesus and not of good works.

In conclusion of my explanation over 1john 3:7, it is evident that john was NOT talking about righteousness before God which is a GIFT on the basis of FAITH(alone), but was talking about righteousness before MEN, which works on the basis of "right living/good works".


Question 3: was john saying that good christians are sinless perfect and otherwise shows they are born of the devil?


To do justice to this question, I will answer it on a separate answer.

Stay in grace!

Gombs:
Image123, I disagree with you.

You wrote and implied that a Christian looses his salvation anytime he sins, and if he asks for forgiveness, he receives it back, and if he does sin again, the cycle continues.


My question is, was it forgiveness of sin or remission remission of sin that gave us salvation?


If your answer is the latter, how many times is one entitled to remission of Sin?

Thank you.

Bible references will be greatly appreciated.

Petra1, while Image123 is trying to get time for the questions, do you mind answering them?

Scholar8200:
Here Christ speaks to His church:

Revalation 2:14-16
But I have a few things against thee,... 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

[size=14pt]He commanded the peddlers of false doctrine in the church (yes they were part of the church) to repent else they will suffer the same judgement as would be meted on the antichrist and false prophet!
[/size]
Revelation 2:20-23

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And[b] I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not[/b]. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, [size=16pt]except they repent of their deeds[/size]. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

1. Just like Simon the sorcerer who believed and was baptized but had issues needing cleansing, there was a woman who was part of the church and had even began to express the teaching gift but was, before the Judge, a jezebel who was guilty of fornication and causing others to commit same (perhaps her dressing caused men to lust after her remember Matthew 5: 28) and she taught other false doctrines.

2. The Lord gave her space to repent. Exactly what happens when a believer sins- he/she is given space to repent and amend his/her ways at whatever cost. If such refuses to then it means he/she is a reprobate.

3. Recalcitrance and failure to repent brings us under God's judgment. I believe God uses the same measure with us as HE expects of us. How do I mean? If your brother trespass against you tell him and if he repents forgive him. Likewise when we trespass against Him He , by His Spirit/Word shows us, our response would be to repent. If we refuse to repent we are no different from a heathen and will be judged as such Matthew 18:17.

4. If our Advocate is here commanding certain believers to repent, how then do some say we dont need same IF we trespass or sin?

Now consider :
7 Little children, [size=13pt]let no man deceive you:[/size] he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:7,8

Let's not be deceived, we are saved by faith. If we sin against Him and refuse to make our way right, anyone who tells us all is well is a deceiver!

was john saying that good christians are
sinless perfect and otherwise shows they are born of the devil in 1john 3:8? NEVER!!!!


1st John 5:13 tells us the sole purpose why the Epistle of 1st John was written...
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye HAVE(already) eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

A changed life is most times FRUIT of genuine repentance(change of mind); NOT a part of the ROOT of saving-faith. If a person is genuinely saved, the Holy Spirit of God comes to live in that person's soul (Romans 8:9). The
EVIDENCE of one's saving faith is a changed life. And that changed life is not an evidence to show God that you are standing right, but an evidence to show people that you have been transformed which will make them to believe the testimony of your salvation.


Please understand that self-righteous
works have NOTHING to do with salvation.

Titus 3:5;"NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

We are saved by FAITH ALONE, PERIOD (Romans 4:5-6).

Rom 4:5-6;"5 And to the one WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES(faith) in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness APART FROM WORKS:"

God takes care of EVERYTHING ELSE once we are saved(1peter 1:5), including working in our heart and teaching us the truth through His Word(titus 2:11-12.

1peter 1:5;"GOD'S POWER PROTECTS YOU THROUGH YOUR FAITH(alone, no good works required), and it keeps you safe until your salvation comes. That salvation is ready to be given to you at the end of time(judgement day)."

Titus 2:11-12;"11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath APPEARED(already by faith alone; past tense) to all men,
12 (what's the next thing the grace of God does after saving us freely by faith?) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;"

Living righteously in vs12 means, living in a way that makes you look righteous BEFORE MEN(not before God) by doing good works and at the same time having a STEADFAST FAITH IN JESUS to look righteous BEFORE GOD(not before men).


Now, we must be saved ALREADY before the grace of God can teach us. The grave mistake the works + grace preachers are making over this verse is that; they say that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness, worldly lusts, live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, SO THAT WE CAN HAVE ETERNAL LIFE(make heaven). But, the capitalised makes that statement a heresy.

It is evident that the grace teaches us to deny worldly things because WE ARE ALREADY SAVED FREE BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. And when we go contrary to what it teaches us, we are still saved at the same time. Because salvation, which comes alone by faith in jesus' death on our behalf, is NOT DEPENDENT on good works rather, good works are dependent on salvation.

So, we must have ALREADY received eternal life, before we can heed to what grace is teaching us. The grace does not teaching us this things so that we WILL have eternal life. NO!!! Because we ALREADY HAVE eternal life, so the grace is teaching us that, to keep us perfect so we can receive our reward, the incorruptible crown of righteousness, on the judgement day. I have talked about "reward" on my past answers. You can go back to know more!


Let's analyse!

1st John 3:8-9 states: "8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."


1. "...He that committeth sin is of the devil..."

Anybody who commits sin is of the devil, really? Okay, we are gon' analyse that.

So, Abraham was of the devil at the time he committed sin through haggai, David was of the devil at the time he fornicated, Samson was of the devil at the time he committed fornication and died of suicide, Paul was of the devil at the time he committed sin, when he wills to do what is right, peter was of the devil when he cut someone's ear out of anger, peter was of the devil when he betrayed Jesus, peter was of the devil when he committed sin of hypocrisy in Gal 2?

If so, then it means that anybody who is not sinless perfect as jesus was on earth is of the devil! There comes to the question; WHO ON EARTH IS SINLESS PERFECT If "no one" is the answer, then it means that ALL is of the devil!!! Okay so interesting, we are still analysing!

In the above examples with the saints, don't tell me; "....but they asked for forgiveness" because the forgiveness of the new testament generation took place when jesus took the punishment of our sins at the cross ON OUR BEHALF. And by his blood, our whole life sins were purged out and forgiven, as it has been punished on christ on our behalf.

Let's now see the next verse to get all right!

2. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. FOR THIS PURPOSE the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Firstly, we are not to forget that we are sinners before God(if without faith in jesus' death), even when we do good works, just as the bible declared us.

Rom 3:23; "FOR ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God;"

So, John by the first sentence was trying to tell us that because we commit sin, we are of the devil!

Now, because we commit sin, we were of the devil for committing sin, FOR THIS PURPOSE the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Because we were of the devil(for that purpose), God sent Jesus to come and destroy the works of the devil. So that we can be free.

3. WHAT ARE THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL? AND HOW DID JESUS DESTROY IT?

Jesus revealed to us the works of the devil which Jesus came to destroy and he also revealed how he will destroy the devil's works, in john 10:10.

John 10:10;"10 The thief(DEVIL) cometh not, but for to STEAL, and to KILL, and to DESTROY: I AM COME that they might have LIFE(eternal), and that they might have IT(eternal life) more ABUDANTLY."

In the above verse, the devil's work is to KILL US, STEAL FROM US and DESTROY US, thereby ending up in hell. How does he carry his work out? By taking advantage of our FAILED flesh through us not living 100% according to the law of righteousness and as such heading us all to hell. But notwithstanding, Jesus came to scatter his works which he has done, is doing and is PLANNING to do. ALL SCATTERED!!!

How did Jesus destroy all the devil's work? By supplying THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE. He said that he has come to give us ABUNDANT LIFE. What life is abundant? THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE WHICH IS GIVEN BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH ALONE!

So, when we receive the free gift of eternal life, the devil can no more steal, kill and destroy us because of the sins we committed. Because God allowed satan to steal from Jesus, kill and destroyed Jesus at the cross ON OUR BEHALF.

So, whosoever that has eternal life is SECURED from the works of the devil, notwithstanding his failures to stay 100% righteous in good works, HE IS SAVED!

I have explained 1john 3:9 on one of my previous answers.

Stay in grace!

Millerz:
There is a certain someone who has been spamming this beautiful thread with all manner of false doctrines. But pls, do not be carried away.

I stand with scholar8200.

In this thread https://www.nairaland.com/2809808/renouncing-christian-faith/6, I read about your short terrific story about your faith in God. It was so terrific that I felt like crying, but I told myself that crying can never solve your problem, but to just write this reply to you.


Now, what made it look so terrific to me is that, despite the terrible conditions you are having with your faith in God, you still come into this thread to refer the gospel of FREE grace which I am preaching as SPAMMING. I am sorry for you, but God says that he loves to change people like you, just like the way he changed me by the power of this gospel of grace.


This gospel of grace wherein I am saved and healed is what can only make you know the true nature of God, give you peace and give you the free gift of righteousness and eternal life. But, you called it spamming.


God is in control, he will help you, keep you and change your life from bitter to a sweet life in Jesus' name, AMEN!!!


Stay in grace!

petra1:


Thank you for your response. I will appreciate if you can throw light on this issue.

Is salvation a one time experince ? Or does a Christian lose salvation each time he sins, and has to get saved again.

We are saved in different times and contexts, i am sure you know that and teach it. We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. If you have any issues with that, inform me. Salvation is simply deliverance, semantics really though people like to get technical with greek and other such definitions explaining atonement, propitiation, remission, justification, salvation, regeneration and other such process that accompany being born again. The jollyride doesn't interest me, i like to keep things simple. If someone falls into a well, another time, he needs to be saved again. He is not saved in the well.

Gombs:


You can take as much time as you'd like... Whenever you are ready, kindly explain how BOTH forgiveness of sins and remission of sin ushered us into salvation.


Or better still, What's the difference between forgiveness of sins and remission of sins. Thanks

Thank you. Here was the scripture i mentioned.
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Not hoping to be too technical or long BTW, remission of sins is the payment for sins, done by Jesus Christ. Jesus has remitted or paid for the sins of the whole world on Calvary more than 2000years ago. However, that alone does not bring salvation, else every sinner would be saved already since their sins have been paid for on the Cross. It is repentance that brings in forgiveness of sins. Once you repent, you are forgiven your sins. So, Jesus does/did the remitting, the individual does the repenting and is forgiven. It is these that lead to salvation.

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance by man, and remission already done by Jesus both play significant part in salvation.

Image123:


We are saved in different times and contexts, i am sure you know that and teach it.

Not so. I teach one salvation . But there is process . For spirit soul and body

We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved

That is for the total man . The spirit of man get recreated at receiving christ . The soul or mind is continuously saved by renewal of the word of God . This result in the perfection of the outward man also .

Gombs:



My question is, was it forgiveness of sin or remission remission of sin that gave us salvation?

If your answer is the latter, how many times is one entitled to remission of Sin?

Thank you.

Bible references will be greatly appreciated.

A man is saved only once . The Adamic sin nature is replaced with the nature of righteousness . This experience is a once and for all experience . Which Goshen360 calls OSAS. there is difference between sin and sins. Sin (nature) is remitted but sins are forgiven . The new nature of righteousness which was imputed at salvation does not get taken away when a christian commit a sin. He didn't get saved by his perfection and he can't lose it by his imperfections. If he commits a sin , he still retain his nature of righteousness and it's by that nature he receives forguvesnes . None of us is perfect after the flesh . We do err by omission or commission . Judgementalisim is sin , malice is sin , wrong assumption is sin. Gossip is sin .

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But none of this will take away the nature of God which came as a gift through faith . When a christian admits his sin he recieves forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

petra1:
Is there such thing as eternal security

Yes, there is such thing as eternal security.
It is also known as eternal life

petra1:
What is eternal security

It a crowning moment, and happens at the end or completion of the following:
#1 saved,
#2 being saved and
#3 hope to be saved


#1 saved as in:
For God says,
"At just the right time, I heard you. On the day of salvation, I helped you."
Indeed, the "right time" is now. Today is the day of salvation
- 2 Corinthians 6:2 NLT

We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don't need to hope for it.
- Romans 8:24 NLT

that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God's grace that you have been saved!)
- Ephesians 2:5 NLT

#2 being saved as in:
Our lives are a Christ-like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing.
- 2 Corinthians 2:15 NLT

and
#3 hope to be saved as in:
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life
- Romans 5:9-10

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
- 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
- Philippians 2:12 KJV

petra1:
Can a christian sin

Sin means missing the mark. Everyone, believers inclusive, now and/or then do miss the mark hence can and/or do sin

petra1:
Can a christian lose salvation

Yes, though saved, if such, without safely reaching the shore or harbor, due to sea sickness etcetera, jumps off a ship whilst being saved, then such would lose salvation, lose being saved and dash away any hope to be saved once reaching the shore or harbor

petra1:
Can a christian lose salvation by committing a sin

Yes particularly when it comes to missing the mark with the Holy Spirit
(i.e. sinning against the Holy Spirit)
28“Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin''
- Mark 3:28-29

31Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
- Matthew 12:31-32

petra1:
How many times can a man be born again

This depends on how born again is used in this question.
If used, as a verb, then possibly and potentially more than one time
If it is used, as an adjective, in a similar way as Jesus did, then all it takes is one time only

Image123:



Thank you. Here was the scripture i mentioned.
Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Not hoping to be too technical or long BTW, remission of sins is the payment for sins, done by Jesus Christ. Jesus has remitted or paid for the sins of the whole world on Calvary more than 2000years ago. However, that alone does not bring salvation, else every sinner would be saved already since their sins have been paid for on the Cross. It is repentance that brings in forgiveness of sins. Once you repent, you are forgiven your sins. So, Jesus does/did the remitting, the individual does the repenting and is forgiven. It is these that lead to salvation.

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance by man, and remission already done by Jesus both play significant part in salvation.

Image123, welcome.

Image123, I disagree with you.

You wrote and implied that a Christian looses his salvation anytime he sins, and if he asks for forgiveness, he receives it back, and if he does sin again, the cycle continues.


My question is, was it forgiveness of sin or remission of sin that gave us salvation?


If your answer is the latter, how many times is one entitled to remission of Sin?

Thank you.

Bible references will be greatly appreciated.

Image123:


We are saved in different times and contexts, i am sure you know that and teach it. We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. If you have any issues with that, inform me. Salvation is simply deliverance, semantics really though people like to get technical with greek and other such definitions explaining atonement, propitiation, remission, justification, salvation, regeneration and other such process that accompany being born again. The jollyride doesn't interest me, i like to keep things simple. If someone falls into a well, another time, he needs to be saved again. He is not saved in the well.

I hope that what you meant by the word "..being saved...and will be saved" is not that we are not saved once and for all?

@Image123, we were saved once at the cross for the reason of christ's sacrifice, which took place ONCE and for ALL.

And our STEADFAST FAITH in what gave us our first salvation, is what KEEPS US SAVED! So, when you say "being saved", that should mean BEING KEPT saved which ONLY happens through FAITH ALONE.

Now, what "..WILL be saved" should mean is that WE WERE saved, WE ARE BEING KEPT saved, so that shall NOT PARTAKE(shall) OF the judgment of hell fire AT THE JUDGEMENT DAY.

And that "..WILL BE saved" is NOT what happens in our life time but what happens on the JUDGEMENT DAY.

Rom 5:9;"9 Much more then, BEING NOW SAVED(justified) by his blood, we shall be SHALL BE SAVED from WRATH through him."

The wrath of God in that context is NOT what happens today, but the wrath of God is on the judgement day that's why we SHALL BE saved from it BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED NOW BY HIS BLOOD.

Today, the wrath of God is NOT now, but shall come on the judgement day. So, if today is not the day of wrath, what is today? 2cor 6:2 answers that!

2cor 6:2;"2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, NOW is the accepted time; BEHOLD, NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION.).

Today is not the day of wrath, but the DAY OF SALVATION. God cannot be saving and destroying at the same time. No way!

Millerz:
There is a certain someone who has been spamming this beautiful thread with all manner of false doctrines. But pls, do not be carried away.

I stand with scholar8200.

Oh yes, and that someone has been 'marked' long before now. It is only babies that are in danger of these false doctrines. SMH

Splinz:

Oh yes, and that someone has been 'marked' long before now. It is only babies that are in danger of these false doctrines. SMH

You may be right!

But, with no biblical evidence you are IGNORED!

petra1:



A man is saved only once . The Adamic sin nature is replaced with the nature of righteousness . This experience is a once and for all experience . Which Goshen360 calls OSAS. there is difference between sin and sins. Sin (nature) is remitted but sins are forgiven . The new nature of righteousness which was imputed at salvation does not get taken away when a christian commit a sin. He didn't get saved by his perfection and he can't lose it by his imperfections. If he commits a sin , he still retain his nature of righteousness and it's by that nature he receives forguvesnes . None of us is perfect after the flesh . We do err by omission or commission . Judgementalisim is sin , malice is sin , wrong assumption is sin. Gossip is sin .

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But none of this will take away the nature of God which came as a gift through faith . When a christian admits his sin he recieves forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Exactly my thoughts. You simply simplified it.


Now, can you understand how/why Image123 claims one looses his salvation each time he sins and consequently regains it back after forgiveness?

petra1:



A man is saved only once . The Adamic sin nature is replaced with the nature of righteousness . This experience is a once and for all experience . Which Goshen360 calls OSAS. there is difference between sin and sins. Sin (nature) is remitted but sins are forgiven . The new nature of righteousness which was imputed at salvation does not get taken away when a christian commit a sin. He didn't get saved by his perfection and he can't lose it by his imperfections. If he commits a sin , he still retain his nature of righteousness and it's by that nature he receives forguvesnes . None of us is perfect after the flesh . We do err by omission or commission . Judgementalisim is sin , malice is sin , wrong assumption is sin. Gossip is sin .

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But none of this will take away the nature of God which came as a gift through faith . When a christian admits his sin he recieves forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But what if the 'christian refuses to admit his sin or does so with no purpose of heart to avoid same (2 Corinth 7: 11,10)? Does he remain saved?

Scholar8200:
But what if the 'christian refuses to admit his sin or does so with no purpose of heart to avoid same (2 Corinth 7: 11,10)? Does he remain saved?

Yes! He or she remain saved. The GIFTS and CALLING of God are irreversible/irrevocable.

2. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with being saved now, because the same corinthians ARE ALREADY SAVED but was wallowing in sin because of their background and environment.

3. The only thing that can make a christian loose his or her salvation is by denouncing the one he or she is in, that is THE LORD.

4. Sins doesn't UNBORN AGAIN a Christian. Sin and sacrifice for sins had been dealt with and paid once and for all times. When Christ returns, he's not returning to come deal with sins or sacrifice for sins no more....SAYS THE WORD OF GOD.

5. Ask yourself, does every sin or sins you committed but didn't even know it was a sin UNBORN AGAIN you?

6. Paul, didn't pamper the sins of the corinthians and we are not supposed to pamper sins in the church of Christ but Paul NEVER implied the Corinthians loose their salvation because of sin and later regained it back, rather he was hard on them and they REPENTED....that's what the verse you quoted is talking about.

7. The word "save, salvation, saved" are used to mean different meaning within its context. You cannot just lift bible verse from its context just because it mentioned save, saved or salvation, you have to follow the contextual meaning. That's one of the damages or error Image123 committed in his first response.

Goshen360:


Yes! He or she remain saved. The GIFTS and CALLING of God are irreversible/irrevocable.

That passage where you got that from was not about Salvation as it concerns the gentiles. Would you mind quoting something more applicable?

2. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with being saved now, because the same corinthians ARE ALREADY SAVED but was wallowing in sin because of their background and environment.

and Paul told them in 1 Corinth 6 that those who continued in sin would not inherit the kingdom. He further told them in 2 Corinth 11 that he was labouring to protect them from deception so as to be presentable to Christ.

3. The only thing that can make a christian loose his or her salvation is by denouncing the one he or she is in, that is THE LORD.

bro, by this claim Demas, Ananias, Sapphira died in the Lord, is that correct? ettc

4. Sins doesn't UNBORN AGAIN a Christian. Sin and sacrifice for sins had been dealt with and paid once and for all times. When Christ returns, he's not returning to come deal with sins or sacrifice for sins no more....SAYS THE WORD OF GOD.

5. Ask yourself, does every sin or sins you committed but didn't even know it was a sin UNBORN AGAIN you?

6. Paul, didn't pamper the sins of the corinthians and we are not supposed to pamper sins in the church of Christ but Paul NEVER implied the Corinthians loose their salvation because of sin and later regained it back, rather he was hard on them and they REPENTED....that's what the verse you quoted is talking about.

Now bro, how would you reconcile your response with:

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death,he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it
1 John 5:16


He was a brother and had life, he sinned (not the unpardonable sin) and needs someone's intercession that he may have LIFE again.(meaning he lost it else why ask for him to have what he had already?).


Also see:
19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
James 5:19,20



A brother erred and needed to be converted again! In fact vs 20 calls him a sinner headed to perdition!
In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses this fact has been established

petra1:


Not so. I teach one salvation . But there is process . For spirit soul and body




That is for the total man . The spirit of man get recreated at receiving christ . The soul or mind is continuously saved by renewal of the word of God . This result in the perfection of the outward man also .

Okay, you teach it for the total man, whatever that means. What were we discussing again, the partial man?

Scholar8200:


That passage where you got that from was not about Salvation as it concerns the gentiles. Would you mind quoting something more applicable?

In one place, he said, it is by Grace you are saved through faith and not of your own self, it is the GIFT of God.

In another place, he said, the GIFT and calling of God are without repentance.

Perhaps you are thinking GIFT is only used as regards ministry gift or spiritual gifts. He said the GIFT AND CALLING of God, telling you the nature of the Gift and calling of God.

Perhaps, the above doesn't suit the discussion, let's see what he said here:

Berean Study Bible
"Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
Romans 4:7-8

In the verse above, there's 2 kinds of men therein if you can spot the difference and what is what.

2. Why will the Lord do this or give this blessedness to these 2 kinds of men?

promise10:


I hope that what you meant by the word "..being saved...and will be saved" is not that we are not saved once and for all?

@Image123, we were saved once at the cross for the reason of christ's sacrifice, which took place ONCE and for ALL.

What is the meaning of "once and for all"? Where does this appear in the Bible, is it just a nice sounding phrase or cliche? Were the Israelites saved once and for all from Egypt? Did they perish in the wilderness?

And our STEADFAST FAITH in what gave us our first salvation, is what KEEPS US SAVED! So, when you say "being saved", that should mean BEING KEPT saved which ONLY happens through FAITH ALONE.

Very true, and the Bible warns us to continue in that faith because it is POSSIBLE to discontinue.
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Now, what "..WILL be saved" should mean is that WE WERE saved, WE ARE BEING KEPT saved, so that shall NOT PARTAKE(shall) OF the judgment of hell fire AT THE JUDGEMENT DAY.

And that "..WILL BE saved" is NOT what happens in our life time but what happens on the JUDGEMENT DAY.

Rom 5:9;"9 Much more then, BEING NOW SAVED(justified) by his blood, we shall be SHALL BE SAVED from WRATH through him."

The wrath of God in that context is NOT what happens today, but the wrath of God is on the judgement day that's why we SHALL BE saved from it BECAUSE WE ARE SAVED NOW BY HIS BLOOD.

Today, the wrath of God is NOT now, but shall come on the judgement day. So, if today is not the day of wrath, what is today? 2cor 6:2 answers that!

2cor 6:2;"2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the DAY OF SALVATION have I succoured thee: behold, NOW is the accepted time; BEHOLD, NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION.).

Today is not the day of wrath, but the DAY OF SALVATION. God cannot be saving and destroying at the same time. No way!

i believe we are in perfect agreement concerning this, and that is what i referred Jo to, and said that he probably teaches.

Scholar8200:


and Paul told them in 1 Corinth 6 that those who continued in sin would not inherit the kingdom. He further told them in 2 Corinth 11 that he was labouring to protect them from deception so as to be presentable to Christ.

There's absolutely no reason for a christian to "continue or live a lifestyle" of sin. That's not what we're talking about. You can mention so called big and deadly sins but sin is sin. You don't commit murder but you lie, doubt and some very little sins, does that make you less a sinner?

So, we're not promoting a continuous lifestyle of sin here but as long as we live in this body, sin abound but where sin abound, Grace abound much more. Is Paul therefore promoting sin because grace abound much more? Certainly not!

Any baby Christian such as the corinthians will definitely fall into sins but the mature ones like Paul will correct them but not condemn them to hell.

Goshen360:


In one place, he said, it is by Grace you are saved through faith and not of your own self, it is the GIFT of God.

In another place, he said, the GIFT and calling of God are without repentance.

Perhaps you are thinking GIFT is only used as regards ministry gift or spiritual gifts. He said the GIFT AND CALLING of God, telling you the nature of the Gift and calling of God.

Perhaps, the above doesn't suit the discussion, let's see what he said here:

Berean Study Bible
"Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
Romans 4:7-8

In the verse above, there's 2 kinds of men therein if you can spot the difference and what is what.

2. Why will the Lord do this or give this blessedness to these 2 kinds of men?

Why? Because of their receiving the Gift He offers by faith!

Let's see this:

3 according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:3,4


It says HE has given us not just forgiveness. However, see the below:



For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:8,9

Yes the Gift is given, and we access same by faith however there are evidences of the manifestation of that we received. The absence of these fruit/continual wallowing in sins after 'believing' attracts the rebuke in 9b.


Finally:

For if [b]after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2 Peter 2:20
[/b]

They had escaped, they partook of the Divine Nature, but they fell - not by openly or covertly renouncing Jesus - but by yielding to the pollutions of the world. It says this of them:

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."2 Peter 2:21,22

Bro, Christ is coming for a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle (Ephesians 5:26-27). A forum like this should be used to promote that Divine goal!!! Saying 'Christians' can wallow in sin, sear conscience with a hot iron (the more you stiffle it , the quieter it becomes) and make Heaven is shocking!

In summary:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 of how much [size=15pt]sorer punishment[/size], suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 12:26-29

P.S.: he that continue sinning wilfully is actually fulfilling the blue highlighted!

Goshen360:


There's absolutely no reason for a christian to "continue or live a lifestyle" of sin. That's not what we're talking about. You can mention so called big and deadly sins but sin is sin. You don't commit murder but you lie, doubt and some very little sins, does that make you less a sinner?

you assume I hold a position and give a rhetoric thereon! I did not hint at these you have written.

So, we're not promoting a continuous lifestyle of sin here but as long as we live in this body, sin abound but where sin abound, Grace abound much more. Is Paul therefore promoting sin because grace abound much more? Certainly not!

Is your definition of Grace the same as Titus 2:11-12?

For the grace of God (His unmerited favor and blessing) has come forward (appeared) for the deliverance from sin and the eternal salvation for all mankind.
12 It has trained us to reject and renounce all ungodliness (irreligion) and worldly (passionate) desires, to live discreet (temperate, self-controlled), upright, devout (spiritually whole) lives in this present world,


IT GOES BEYOND FORGIVENESS BUT INCLUDES POWER FOR A LIFE OF VICTORY

Any baby Christian such as the corinthians will definitely fall into sins but the mature ones like Paul will correct them but not condemn them to hell.

Bro, if our converts are not manifesting newness of life, let's not allow them to die on our hands. It will be wrong to measure the effect of the new life using the Corinthians. How about the Thessalonians (whose light shone even to far places?) or Saul of Tarsus? or Zaccheus?

They are to receive a New Life, not a gradual proselytizing after yielding a mental assent to the Gospel!

Scholar8200,

Na wha for you o...somethings you said I completely agree with and some, we'll disagree but you're throwing too much out of context scriptures in the discussion. If I was to respond, we'll derail this thread. I guess I'll respond when I have time.

Goshen360:
Scholar8200,

Na wha for you o...somethings you said I completely agree with and some, we'll disagree but you're throwing too much out of context scriptures in the discussion. If I was to respond, we'll derail this thread. I guess I'll respond when I have time.

Looking forward to your response and do highlight the passages thrown out of context and their proper meanings.

Goshen360:


Yes! He or she remain saved. The GIFTS and CALLING of God are irreversible/irrevocable.

2. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with being saved now, because the same corinthians ARE ALREADY SAVED but was wallowing in sin because of their background and environment.

3. The only thing that can make a christian loose his or her salvation is by denouncing the one he or she is in, that is THE LORD.

4. Sins doesn't UNBORN AGAIN a Christian. Sin and sacrifice for sins had been dealt with and paid once and for all times. When Christ returns, he's not returning to come deal with sins or sacrifice for sins no more....SAYS THE WORD OF GOD.

5. Ask yourself, does every sin or sins you committed but didn't even know it was a sin UNBORN AGAIN you?

6. Paul, didn't pamper the sins of the corinthians and we are not supposed to pamper sins in the church of Christ but Paul NEVER implied the Corinthians loose their salvation because of sin and later regained it back, rather he was hard on them and they REPENTED....that's what the verse you quoted is talking about.

7. The word "save, salvation, saved" are used to mean different meaning within its context. You cannot just lift bible verse from its context just because it mentioned save, saved or salvation, you have to follow the contextual meaning. That's one of the damages or error Image123 committed in his first response.

Standing ovation.


Wonderful piece!

I'm thinking, what kind of father will disown his child because he stole sweets, and then reclaim him after the child has apologized, and keeps doing so, for how long?

Knowing fully well that the Bible said foolishness abounds in the heart of a child.

The Corinthians and galatians were never said to have lost their salvation despite their shortfalls, for the ONLY WAY one can loose their salvation is the same way he got it - with his confession of mouth, denouncing the lordship of Christ.

Some folks here are sounding like God's waiting to catch us do wrong, then he'd keep record of it, waiting for pay back time.

Brethren, God has settled the issue of sin in Jesus, since... And He has no issue with fixing it. Why He doesn't want us to sin is because we'd expose ourselves to the working of devils. He so loves us and wouldn't want the devil to have party time with us (kill, steal and destroy) , but we regardless sometimes fall off. That never means he revokes our SONSHIP, meaning we'd loose our very righteous nature given us by Jesus, pending when we ask for forgiveness. That doesn't make sense at all.

The issue of sin is between the one who commits the sin, his conscience and the devil. God isn't bothered about sin, His laws and justice will however not be compromised.

Gombs:
Standing ovation.

Wonderful piece!

I'm thinking, what kind of father will disown his child because he stole sweets, and then reclaim him after the child has apologized, and keeps doing so, for how long?

Knowing fully well that the Bible said foolishness abounds in the heart of a child

The Bible is very clear of what sin(s) will bring forsaking about

Gombs:
The Corinthians and galatians were never said to have lost their salvation despite their shortfalls, for the ONLY WAY one can loose their salvation is the same way he got it - with his confession of mouth, denouncing the lordship of Christ.

Yep, add sin against the Holy Spirit too to this

Gombs:
Some folks here are sounding like God's waiting to catch us do wrong, then he'd keep record of it, waiting for pay back time.

Let's not be deceived, God's isnt waiting to catch us do wrong, then be keeping record of it, waiting for pay back time
God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap (i.e. cause and effect)

Gombs:
Brethren, God has settled the issue of sin in Jesus, since... And He has no issue with fixing it. Why He doesn't want us to sin is because we'd expose ourselves to the working of devils. He so loves us and wouldn't want the devil to have party time with us (kill, steal and destroy) , but we regardless sometimes fall off. That never means he revokes our SONSHIP, meaning we'd loose our very righteous nature given us by Jesus, pending when we ask for forgiveness. That doesn't make sense at all

You dont want to know who kill, steal and destroy is really all about?
That snippet from John 10:10 and the verse's context certainly wasnt talking about the devil?

Gombs:
The issue of sin is between the one who commits the sin, his conscience and the devil. God isn't bothered about sin, His laws and justice will however not be compromised.

ROTBL, I guess you means this in a generalised manner that ''God isn't bothered about sin''

God is big time bothered about sin. This whole sin issue existed before Adam.
Sin is a necessary evil allowed in Man's world for a greater good to come about.
God has promised that in the fullness of time, sin will be no more



OP, petra1 asked:
Can a christian lose salvation by committing a sin

Reply to question was:
Yes according to Mark 3:28-29 and Matthew 12:31-32 particularly when it comes to missing the mark with the Holy Spirit
(i.e. sinning against the Holy Spirit)

28“Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;
29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin''
- Mark 3:28-29

31Wherefore I say unto you,
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:
but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
- Matthew 12:31-32

Lets sizzle this thread up a bit, and with one or two conundrums, make it a little bit more exciting
It is on record that Judas and Peter, both, committed a sin of betrayal or denial
Would any of both be found guilty of an eternal sin?
Would any of them not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Gombs:


Standing ovation.


Wonderful piece!

I'm thinking, what kind of father will disown his child because he stole sweets, and then reclaim him after the child has apologized, and keeps doing so, for how long?

Knowing fully well that the Bible said foolishness abounds in the heart of a child.

The Corinthians and galatians were never said to have lost their salvation despite their shortfalls, for the ONLY WAY one can loose their salvation is the same way he got it - with his confession of mouth, denouncing the lordship of Christ.

Some folks here are sounding like God's waiting to catch us do wrong, then he'd keep record of it, waiting for pay back time.

Brethren, God has settled the issue of sin in Jesus, since... And He has no issue with fixing it. Why He doesn't want us to sin is because we'd expose ourselves to the working of devils. He so loves us and wouldn't want the devil to have party time with us (kill, steal and destroy) , but we regardless sometimes fall off. That never means he revokes our SONSHIP, meaning we'd loose our very righteous nature given us by Jesus, pending when we ask for forgiveness. That doesn't make sense at all.

The issue of sin is between the one who commits the sin, his conscience and the devil. God isn't bothered about sin, His laws and justice will however not be compromised.

Thinking hardly helps progress in spiritual matters. thinking makes many an atheist. When your understanding of God is based MORE on thinking, you will not get it. fact.

Goshen360:


Yes! He or she remain saved. The GIFTS and CALLING of God are irreversible/irrevocable.

This post is not addressed to me and i believe my good brother has taken care of it in response, but its gotten about two or more of my mentions so lemme comment briefly. Refer to this for this portion.

2. The verse you quoted has nothing to do with being saved now, because the same corinthians ARE ALREADY SAVED but was wallowing in sin because of their background and environment.

Salvation is not for groups, the individual is saved. Paul rebuked the fornicator referred to, he was not saved.

3. The only thing that can make a christian loose his or her salvation is by denouncing the one he or she is in, that is THE LORD.

You say ONLY like you are the one in charge of the gates of Heaven. Or is the book of life inside your phone? On what basis do you speak?

4. Sins doesn't UNBORN AGAIN a Christian. Sin and sacrifice for sins had been dealt with and paid once and for all times. When Christ returns, he's not returning to come deal with sins or sacrifice for sins no more....SAYS THE WORD OF GOD.

Where?

5. Ask yourself, does every sin or sins you committed but didn't even know it was a sin UNBORN AGAIN you?

Ask the Bible instead, you could be wrong, you know?

6. Paul, didn't pamper the sins of the corinthians and we are not supposed to pamper sins in the church of Christ but Paul NEVER implied the Corinthians loose their salvation because of sin and later regained it back, rather he was hard on them and they REPENTED....that's what the verse you quoted is talking about.

What was their sin?

7. The word "save, salvation, saved" are used to mean different meaning within its context. You cannot just lift bible verse from its context just because it mentioned save, saved or salvation, you have to follow the contextual meaning. That's one of the damages or error Image123 committed in his first response.

Okay, for instance?

Image123:


Thinking hardly helps progress in spiritual matters. thinking makes many an atheist. When your understanding of God is based MORE on thinking, you will not get it. fact.

Thanks for your time. I never thought you'd want to face your theological blunder head on.


Have a great day sir!

Image123:
Thinking hardly helps progress in spiritual matters. thinking makes many an atheist. When your understanding of God is based MORE on thinking, you will not get it. fact

I cannot believe reading you too making another generalised remark in this manner and especially an unguarded one in regards to thinking
What were you thinking or werent thinking, pun not intended
Maybe you meant doing thinking a wrong way or going about thinking the wrong way, hardly helps progress in spiritual matters

An unthinking person believes everything, but the prudent one thinks before acting
- Proverbs 14:15 ISV

Apart from Proverbs 14:15 above, God in Joshua 1:8, advises Joshua to mediate (i.e. think deeply) on ''spiritual matters''
King David in Psalm 119:15, said he mediates (i.e. reflects or thinks) on God's guiding principles and studies His ways
In Psalm 119:97, King David says, he so much love God's instructions he thinks about them all day long.

Does anyone discuss, argue or reason without thinking?
Thinking is acceptable, allowable, permitted or tolerable.
God in Isaiah 1:18, throws down the gauntlet with an invitation to THINK

The bible in Proverbs 4:5, says, get wisdom (i.e. get skillful at making good and right decisions), get understanding (i.e know the why, the how, the when etc)
Further on the bible persist in talking about wisdom, again, in Proverbs 4:7 that, wisdom is the principal thing (i.e. the summit); therefore get wisdom: and with all your getting get understanding

What can wisdom be if not something borne out from sensible or wise thinking
How does one make considered decisions over matters or come to sensible conclusions over issues, if not by, after or from thinking
Dead or alive, (i.e. dead in a parable or alive on earth) thinking of some or any sort is done

Now Image, if what you were on about is that, foolish thinking hardly helps progress in spiritual matters, then I am 120% gidigba-no-shaking with and behind you

If the bible in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says, prove all things and hold fast that which is good
then how you'll going to prove things without critical thoughts about them

Am sure Image123, you arent one of those who associate enquiring minds' investigative and/or critical thinking with skepticism and criticism

Gombs:
Thanks for your time. I never thought you'd want to face your theological blunder head on.

Have a great day sir!

You simply just caught Image123 going through one of his indifference moments, that's all
and so shouldnt have had to form humble on him with this post nor waste away the ''Have a great day sir'' nicety on him