TheGoodJoe:


There is a reason why Stones played for a coach who liked the highline and ball holding game. Martinez and now Guardiola.

His quality on the ball is what makes him better than others.

goldfish80:


Clearly you have bought into the hype surrounding John stones, which as an adult you are free to believe what you wish to belive.
But making bold statements that Stones is better than other defenders therefore he deserves to be sold for 50m is is quite ludicrous.

For starters John stones is not a finished product, he is still a learner. The premium Man city payed for him should be for a seasoned defender like a segrio Ramos, Godin, Pepe, Koscielny, etc...

This same transfer window, Barcelona bought Umtiti a French international for €25m, Arsenal bought a world cup winning defender Mustafi £30m. Both of these guys can play out of the defence and pass better than John stones.
But their total prize combined is just about the amount Man city got John stones. Except you're saying John is twice the player Umtiti and Mustafi is combined,which would be laughable.

Leon Balogoun and Troost definitely should be playing at a higher level in one for the champions league clubs. Their talents deserves to be appreciated by a greater audience.

goldfish80:


Clearly you have bought into the hype surrounding John stones, which as an adult you are free to believe what you wish to belive.
But making bold statements that Stones is better than other defenders therefore he deserves to be sold for 50m is is quite ludicrous.

For starters John stones is not a finished product, he is still a learner. The premium Man city payed for him should be for a seasoned defender like a segrio Ramos, Godin, Pepe, Koscielny, etc...

This same transfer window, Barcelona bought Umtiti a French international for €25m, Arsenal bought a world cup winning defender Mustafi £30m. Both of these guys can play out of the defence and pass better than John stones.
But their total prize combined is just about the amount Man city got John stones. Except you're saying John is twice the player Umtiti and Mustafi is combined,which would be laughable.

Leon Balogoun and Troost definitely should be playing at a higher level in one for the champions league clubs. Their talents deserves to be appreciated by a greater audience.

TheGoodJoe:


I find it very funny when people create assumptions for people's thoughts.

Where did you get the opinion that I bought into Stones hype? Shocking you say that.

I watch Stones closely. I am actually obsessed with Guardiola's philosophy and I watch the way Stones fit in.

I was among those who criticised the signing of Stones, just like I criticised Sterling.

Watching Stones play in Guardiola's system men makes me understand how good he is.

His overindulgence when he is with the ball is now his strength. That overpaying people criticise is encouraged.

This helped Mould Stones into a classy player.

TheGoodJoe:


I find it very funny when people create assumptions for people's thoughts.

Where did you get the opinion that I bought into Stones hype? Shocking you say that.

I watch Stones closely. I am actually obsessed with Guardiola's philosophy and I watch the way Stones fit in.

I was among those who criticised the signing of Stones, just like I criticised Sterling.

Watching Stones play in Guardiola's system men makes me understand how good he is.

His overindulgence when he is with the ball is now his strength. That overpaying people criticise is encouraged.

This helped Mould Stones into a classy player.

TheGoodJoe:


I guess you know football more than Guardiola.

Stones Won a man of the match recently in a star studded Manchester City team without scoring a goal.

Do the maths and tell me Stones is not class.

BascoVanVeli:


It was one match. Stones is one of the best English defenders available but that doesn't say a whole lot. The price for English players is double even tripple what they might be really worth, clubs need to meet their quota especially since they don't know how brexit will affect international players.

goldfish80:

The English media went into an overdrive to project Jon stones as a world class defender worth £50m and judging from your argument thus far, you whole heartedly believe he's is worth every penny of that £50m.

You're wowed about his pass statistics but I can tell you, Umtiti and Mustafi have even better pass statistics than him.
At the Euros Umtiti averaged 95.5% pass accuracy.
Mustafi pulled in 88% pass accuracy.....

But passing is not the only tool you judge a CB with. Find out what John stones numbers are, like ariel duels won,clearances, interseption, how many tackels he average per game,.. Etc
Mustafi for example, leads the entire European defenders last season on interseption....

My point is John stones is overpriced because he is not twice the player Umtiti and Mustafi are as his transfer fee suggests.

Even Guardiola's opinion about him should not be held as Bible. Pep at Barcelona bought Dmitry Chigrisnky for €25m, clearly had a strong opinion about him. But Chigrisnky's stint at Barcelona was quite laughable making only 12 appearances.
Mind you, €25m in 2007 for a CB is Kings prize... Lol

Troost and Balogun deserves to play at a higher level than they are playing currently. Their talent deserves to be showcased at a bigger stage.

goldfish80:

The English media went into an overdrive to project Jon stones as a world class defender worth £50m and judging from your argument thus far, you whole heartedly believe he's is worth every penny of that £50m.

You're wowed about his pass statistics but I can tell you, Umtiti and Mustafi have even better pass statistics than him.
At the Euros Umtiti averaged 95.5% pass accuracy.
Mustafi pulled in 88% pass accuracy.....

But passing is not the only tool you judge a CB with. Find out what John stones numbers are, like ariel duels won,clearances, interseption, how many tackels he average per game,.. Etc
Mustafi for example, leads the entire European defenders last season on interseption....

My point is John stones is overpriced because he is not twice the player Umtiti and Mustafi are as his transfer fee suggests.

Even Guardiola's opinion about him should not be held as Bible. Pep at Barcelona bought Dmitry Chigrisnky for €25m, clearly had a strong opinion about him. But Chigrisnky's stint at Barcelona was quite laughable making only 12 appearances.
Mind you, €25m in 2007 for a CB is Kings prize... Lol

Troost and Balogun deserves to play at a higher level than they are playing currently. Their talent deserves to be showcased at a bigger stage.

goldfish80:

The English media went into an overdrive to project Jon stones as a world class defender worth £50m and judging from your argument thus far, you whole heartedly believe he's is worth every penny of that £50m.

You're wowed about his pass statistics but I can tell you, Umtiti and Mustafi have even better pass statistics than him.
At the Euros Umtiti averaged 95.5% pass accuracy.
Mustafi pulled in 88% pass accuracy.....

But passing is not the only tool you judge a CB with. Find out what John stones numbers are, like ariel duels won,clearances, interseption, how many tackels he average per game,.. Etc
Mustafi for example, leads the entire European defenders last season on interseption....

My point is John stones is overpriced because he is not twice the player Umtiti and Mustafi are as his transfer fee suggests.

Even Guardiola's opinion about him should not be held as Bible. Pep at Barcelona bought Dmitry Chigrisnky for €25m, clearly had a strong opinion about him. But Chigrisnky's stint at Barcelona was quite laughable making only 12 appearances.
Mind you, €25m in 2007 for a CB is Kings prize... Lol

Troost and Balogun deserves to play at a higher level than they are playing currently. Their talent deserves to be showcased at a bigger stage.

TheGoodJoe:


Missed the point. Guardiola's philosophy is all about keeping the ball. Holding possession. Possession-heavy Style.

There was a report of Guardiola holding his head when Caballero clear out the ball. Guardiola wants the team to try their best to build from the back.

This is where a player like Stones who, despite criticism, kept on playing from the back. Kept on trying to dribbles (Cruyff turns) Under Pressure.

In Guardiola's system, he looks brilliant and ideal. This is what justifies his price tag. It is difficult to find defenders like Stones. It is in him. Unlike most English players since Ferdinand, we have a defender who likes to hold the ball and involve in play.

As for Troost-Ekong and Balogun, I have also repeated it that they are top quality. Better than many we find in big clubs. Especially, their ball playing abilities. I hope the World gets to see them at the World Cup.

tbaba1234:


Chief, you can argue for Africa... Stones can pass the ball, fine. A defender who can pass the pass but is deficient in tackles, aerial duels, marks etc is a bad defender.

Stones is definitely overpriced like a lot of other English boys. It does not mean he is not a quality player but he is not $20 Million better than Mustafi

TheGoodJoe:


Keep the Price tag aside. I am not judging Stones based on his price tag.

His ball distribution, his composure, his moving into the midfield when we are pressing, is close to excellent since he joined us.

His decision making, off the ball movement. In the game he won man of the match, I think Nolito hit a brace. Iheanacho had a good game in few minutes and an assist. Sterling was impressive.

But, Stones a defender was man of the match. That tells a whole lot o how good he is.

BascoVanVeli:

Again, it was one match.

TheGoodJoe:


Missed the point. Guardiola's philosophy is all about keeping the ball. Holding possession. Possession-heavy Style.

There was a report of Guardiola holding his head when Caballero clear out the ball. Guardiola wants the team to try their best to build from the back.

This is where a player like Stones who, despite criticism, kept on playing from the back. Kept on trying to dribble (Cruyff turns) Under Pressure.

In Guardiola's system, he looks brilliant and ideal. This is what justifies his price tag. It is difficult to find defenders like Stones. It is in him. Unlike most English players since Ferdinand, we have a defender who likes to hold the ball and involve in play.

As for Troost-Ekong and Balogun, I have also repeated it that they are top quality. Better than many we find in big clubs. Especially, their ball playing abilities. I hope the World gets to see them at the World Cup.

quote]" Guardiola is blinded by his meticulousness. He always looks to come up with a special thing, and that's not always what you need in order to win.
"Pep thinks he's better than everyone else, so he has to do the better thing. In reality, he has no Plan B. It sums him up perfectly."Oliver Khan

TheGoodJoe:


Paul Le Guen had a problem with Rangers FC defenders because he wanted them to stop tackling.

Guardiola scolded Otamendi for tackling in the box.

Philosophy of the coaches matters.

To you Stones is poor because he is not an exceptional tackler. That is what you like. To Guardiola, this is gold. He wants team work and interceptions. He wants to see tidy nick off the ball.

So to you one of the reasons he is overpriced because he is not a hard tackler. To Guardiola, that is one of the reasons he is a special defender.

TheGoodJoe:


Missed the point. Guardiola's philosophy is all about keeping the ball. Holding possession. Possession-heavy Style.

There was a report of Guardiola holding his head when Caballero clear out the ball. Guardiola wants the team to try their best to build from the back.

This is where a player like Stones who, despite criticism, kept on playing from the back. Kept on trying to dribble (Cruyff turns) Under Pressure.

In Guardiola's system, he looks brilliant and ideal. This is what justifies his price tag. It is difficult to find defenders like Stones. It is in him. Unlike most English players since Ferdinand, we have a defender who likes to hold the ball and involve in play.

As for Troost-Ekong and Balogun, I have also repeated it that they are top quality. Better than many we find in big clubs. Especially, their ball playing abilities. I hope the World gets to see them at the World Cup.

goldfish80:

Paul Le guen tried to install a new passing ideology to a Rangers who previously thrived on playing defensive football. Hence he banned tackling on training not durring match day.
I can't imagine Rohr or any coach scolding Leon Balogun for those last ditch tackles to preserve his sides clean sheet.

Tackling itself is an art. I applauded Leon for almost 5mins at the crips execution of those tackles.

joseph1013:


You really must believe this hype. Look at the bolded. Do you mean Stone would command that price if he was not English? Look, I believe Balogun is a better defender. I have watched the two of them, and Leon is a more rounded player. Good right back. Fantastic full back.

joseph1013:


You really must believe this hype. Look at the bolded. Do you mean Stone would command that price if he was not English? Look, I believe Balogun is a better defender. I have watched the two of them, and Leon is a more rounded player. Good right back. Fantastic full back.

Guardiola only bought him because he is an English player. If he was still in Germany or Spain, Guardiola would never buy him. In any other league, he would struggle to be bought for 25million. FACT!

TheGoodJoe:


Why don't we talk of Guardiola's opinion on Gérard Pique. A player who was not regular for Manchester United. A player who was young and did not get a medal in the Champions League.

Guardiola took him and polished him. He became one of the most decorated defenders in the game today.

Guardiola is tight. I have confirmed him. His knowledge is astonishing. I do not see you complementing him on Sterling's Improvement or Boateng saying Guardiola improved him.

We should not pay much attention to Guardiola who transformed a Barcelona team that went two seasons without a trophy into one of the best clubs in the history of Club Football.

Chygrinski had Puyol and Pique ahead of him.

goldfish80:
[/b]
Chigrisnki was one of the worst players Barcelona ever bought. It was an error getting him at such an expensive prize. Also, Hleb, kerrison, Zlatan and Fabregas were huge transfer errors Guardiola made at Barca.

Imagine if he had got Thiago Silva to fortify the Barcelona defence with the £35m spent on Fabregas. I tell you, Barcelona would won champions league back to back. Maybe I have the benefit of hindsight but it's still a dent on Guardiola's CV.

goldfish80:


How can you say Guardiola asks his defenders not to tackle? Its like saying Guardiola asks his defenders not to defend. I wonder why Guardiola didn't play Xavi and Iniesta as centre backs so they can start building from the back.

Yes Guardiola is a good coach but he's a very bad man to man manager. Most players who played under him can't stand the sight of him.
Ask Eto, Zlatan, Hleb, Yaya Toure,, the list is endless. His treatment and ultimately dismissal of Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt the Bayern club doctor who is adjudged the best sports doctor in Europe also gives a clue to kind of person he is.
Hans-Wilhelm Muller-Wohlfahrt is a very well respected medical doctor who has worked with top athletes like Ronaldo, Paula Radcliffe and currently working with Usain bolt if I may add.

Recently, in an interview Muller made a stunning remark about Pep. Insinuating that Guardiola was not close to the players as he was on a different world on his own.

Oliver Khan is quoted below ;


Even as you hype Guardiola, at Bayern, he couldn't match Hupp Heychins achievement throughout his reign.

It appears like am attacking Guardiola but am not. Am trying to bring him down to a level to show you he is human after all who makes mistakes and doesn't get his decisions 100% spot on everytime just like the rest of us.

Whatever his opinion is about a player shouldn't be held as Bible.

TheGoodJoe:


Kerrison was never going to walk into the team. It is just another Araujo buy. Did you think Araujo will make Barca?

As for Fabregas, I think he bore too deep into the English style and lost the ideal Tiki Taka mentality. Remember that Del Bosque left him out in some games.

One interesting thing about Zlatan. Something I have come to notice, I feel Guardiola had a plan for Zlatan. Something that would make Zlatan better. Unfortunately, Zlatan did not want to learn.

When Guardiola arrived, he had Fernando and Delph training with the defence. That is how Guardiola thinks. He has these brilliant ways of training players and they improve. Sometimes something so simple like just keep passing the ball forward during training.

Zlatan did not want to learn, he called it "Ruining him."

Just as we are discussing Stones, Guardiola saw something golden in Zlatan, an Eto'o plus €40 million gold but Zlatan refused to learn.

I do not class that as Guardiola failing.

TheGoodJoe:


A lot of you just stick to the Champions League as matching Heynckes achievement. Never talk of the other achievements of Heynckes Guardiola smashed.

Yes, Muller is right, Guardiola is in a world of his own. His ideas are out of this World.

We hear terms that makes us raise our eyelids. Like the False Full backs, lone pivot, Free 8 etc. The man is amazing.

As for the doctor, if Guardiola says go, I would not argue. He won three League titles and two Pokal Cups in three seasons with Bayern. This is beyond Moi Moi.

goldfish80:


Guardiola got away with those errors because Barcelona was a rich club who could afford loosing such amount of monies in failed transfers.
Had he spent that kind of money in a club like Napoli, the fans would have murdered him in the streets because their club will be in recession and probably playing in the Italian 5th division.

goldfish80:

Why didn't he win the treble like Hup hychens did?

TheGoodJoe:


Kerrison was never going to walk into the team. It is just another Araujo buy. Did you think Araujo will make Barca?

As for Fabregas, I think he bore too deep into the English style and lost the ideal Tiki Taka mentality. Remember that Del Bosque left him out in some games.

One interesting thing about Zlatan. Something I have come to notice, I feel Guardiola had a plan for Zlatan. Something that would make Zlatan better. Unfortunately, Zlatan did not want to learn.

When Guardiola arrived, he had Fernando and Delph training with the defence. That is how Guardiola thinks. He has these brilliant ways of training players and they improve. Sometimes something so simple like just keep passing the ball forward during training.

Zlatan did not want to learn, he called it "Ruining him."

Just as we are discussing Stones, Guardiola saw something golden in Zlatan, an Eto'o plus €40 million gold but Zlatan refused to learn.

I do not class that as Guardiola failing.

TheGoodJoe:


How many clubs have lost millions with nothing to show? How many millions did Mourinho spend to battle relegation?

Fans will give a lot to win what Guardiola Won with Barcelona. Six titles in one calender year. Then multiple League, Cups and two Champions League titles.

Not Akara.