goldfish80:

At Bayern Munich, he had all the resources but he couldn't replicate his Barca achievement.
Even Christian Chukwu would have won bags of trophies with that Barcelona team and Messi.

The man he replaced at Bayern handed over to him after winning a treble, he couldn't even manage to to get to a champions league final in 3 attempts.
Look at the mess he made of a mercurial talent like Gotze...

goldfish80:

Almost $100m lost in that Zlatan transfer while Eto had a better season at Inter Milan is a failure. No matter how much you want to paper crack it.

Buying Fabregas when you have the best midfielders already is a huge waste because Fabregas playing as a false 9 is not sustainable over a season.
Why buy a midfielder when you lack in defence as puyol was close to retirement?

I doubt you saw Fabregas play for Arsenal. That Arsenal team played ticki taka as good as anyone else with Cesc - Rosiscky - Hleb - Nasri.
Arsenal has zero English influence on their game.

$10m for Kierrison is laughable.

Why buy Hleb when you don't even know the position he plays? There is a lot of Hleb influence on the way Iwobi plays by the way....

goldfish80:

Almost $100m lost in that Zlatan transfer while Eto had a better season at Inter Milan is a failure. No matter how much you want to paper crack it.

Buying Fabregas when you have the best midfielders already is a huge waste because Fabregas playing as a false 9 is not sustainable over a season.
Why buy a midfielder when you lack in defence as puyol was close to retirement?

I doubt you saw Fabregas play for Arsenal. That Arsenal team played ticki taka as good as anyone else with Cesc - Rosiscky - Hleb - Nasri.
Arsenal has zero English influence on their game.

$10m for Kierrison is laughable.

Why buy Hleb when you don't even know the position he plays? There is a lot of Hleb influence on the way Iwobi plays by the way....

tiedee:
Goodjoe, should stop arguing blindly. Meet the other people half way. In this argument, goldfish won hands down. Goodjoe,we don't win everyday. Take this as a bad day in office. Gracias.

quickly:
The same Tanzania wey una struggle to beat na im algeria give 7-0

TheGoodJoe:


So if someone calls you and tells you I did not watch Fabregas at Arsenal, you will believe. Seriously.

I watched Francis Jeffers at Arsenal. I watched Song as a skinny kid at Arsenal. I watched Anelka make his debut at Arsenal.

I watched Arsenal go three nil down to Middlesbrough with Steve McClaren as Middlesbrough coach. With Cameroonian Job as their striker. Then Arsenal turned the game around and won the game 5-3.

I watched Mellor of Liverpool end the Invincibles run.

Say what you know.

goldfish80:

I doubt you watched arsenal durring that period enough. If you did, you won't make statements like you did about Fabregas loosing his ticki taka mojo because of English influence.
Every man and his wife know Arsenal as a team don't play like an English side.

The Fabregas you talked about loosing his ticki taka touch over ran teams on daily basis, averaging more key passes per game and touching the ball more than any player.
It was infact Fabregas emergence that caused Wenger to change his style of robust counter attacking style with Vieira, Pires, Wiltord, Henry to ticki taka style with smallish players like Fabregas, Hleb, Nasri,Denilson and Rosisky.

You will know this and not even try to argue it out had you watched arsenal like you claim to.

TheGoodJoe:


Criticise and mock Guardiola as you like, he is one of the greatest coaches in modern football.

Talking you doubt I watched Fabregas. Hilarious.

Even now, most Arsenal blogs were arguing few weeks ago that Sanchez can not play upfront. I shook my head. Many of them did not watch Sanchez at Udinesse when Di Natale injured. They did not watch Sanchez score four goals as a striker at Udinesse in one match. They do not even know that Barcelona bought Sanchez after he played as a striker.

As in, not watch Fabregas? Doubt.

Is it from the Ian Wright days? I was watching Arsenal before Kanu joined them.

Manager

Barcelona B
Tercera División: 2007–08

Barcelona
La Liga: 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2009, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011

Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

Individual
Don Balon Award: 2009, 2010
Miguel Muñoz Trophy: 2008–09, 2009–10
Onze d'Or Coach of the Year: 2009, 2011, 2012
World Soccer Magazine World Manager of the Year: 2009, 2011
IFFHS World's Best Club Coach: 2009, 2011
UEFA Team of the Year Best Coach: 2008–09, 2010–11
La Liga Coach of the Year: 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012
FIFA World Coach of the Year: 2011
Globe Soccer Awards Coach Career Award: 2013

Decorations
Gold Medal of the Royal Order of Sporting Merit: 2010[161]
Catalan of the year Award: 2009

Guardiola's honors.

goldfish80:

I doubt you watched arsenal durring that period enough. If you did, you won't make statements like you did about Fabregas loosing his ticki taka mojo because of English influence.
Every man and his wife know Arsenal as a team don't play like an English side.

The Fabregas you talked about loosing his ticki taka touch over ran teams on daily basis, averaging more key passes per game and touching the ball more than any player.
It was infact Fabregas emergence that caused Wenger to change his style of robust counter attacking style with Vieira, Pires, Wiltord, Henry to ticki taka style with smallish players like Fabregas, Hleb, Nasri,Denilson and Rosisky.

You will know this and not even try to argue it out had you watched arsenal like you claim to.

TheGoodJoe:


When Arsene Wenger coaches Arsenal, there is a lot of forward passes. Arsenal plays with a lot of pacy players. Who runs directly at goal. Chamberlain is an example of these. He also look at Nasri who can go with the ball.

So when I talk of Fabregas losing it, his style of play is not similar to the kind played like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

There are times Barcelona players stand in a position without moving and spray passes with themselves.

Fabregas was from the La Masia academy. He was Barcelona thorough, Like Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Busquets, Pedro, Valdes, Puyol etc.

When Fabregas came back, he was not the same player that left to Arsenal.

The way Pellegrini plays his possession football is not the way Wenger plays. There is difference between Tito's possessive play and Guardiola but they are quite similar.

Arsene Wenger played possessively when Fabregas was at Arsenal. There was a time he was among the highest passers in the league with Mikel Obi and Alonso.

That does not mean his style suited Barcelona. When he arrived, he was not the same player. That was why sometimes he played the false 9 position go depend less on his build up play.

goldfish80:

Good for him, he has won a lot of trophies. But when closely scrutinized, one will simply grade him as a check book manager.
I doubt he can achieve what Ranieri did with Leicester City with the budget he had. I doubt he could replicate the feat Simione has achieved with a relatively tight budget. I doubt if he managed that Porto team mourinho won the champions league, he would have achieved a better result.

Bayern Munich has first refusal of players on almost all the clubs in the bundesliga including their direct rivals Dortmond.
It's an abbaration and a bit abnormal if Bayern fail to win the bundesliga because it's just a one horse race there.

I mean, Bayerns wage bill placed side by side with Dortmond's is almost like day and night. So definitely, they should win! Even

Guardiola bought Dortmond 's best striker Lewandoski and best player Mario Gotze. Why would they not win the championship when you bought your rivals best players?!

At bayern, success is judged and rightly so with Champions league.
Jupp Hychens before handing over to Guardiola won the champions league beating Barcelona 7:0....

It's a very bad argument trying to dig up pass statistics as a yardstick to measure jupp hychens and Guardiola's reign at Bayern

TheGoodJoe:


If anyone is arguing blindly, it is you. Is there a competition here to win?

A statement he made that you class winning said Fabregas, Hleb and Rosicky played Tiki Taka as good as anyone.

Is that not a lie? Yet you say winning, arguing blindly.

He is yet to bring the stats that shows his Mustafi is a better passer than Stones. I showed him Jones passing stats last season and until now, he can not back it up.

Apart from Arsenal, who went ten years without a league title, which club will not take $100 million loss to win six titles in one season.

I mean, point out what is blind about my points. When you do call me and give him the winning title.

I do this to understand the game more. I value each others knowledge here. Not to win.

TheGoodJoe:


When Arsene Wenger coaches Arsenal, there is a lot of forward passes. Arsenal plays with a lot of pacy players. Who runs directly at goal. Chamberlain is an example of these. He also look at Nasri who can go with the ball.

So when I talk of Fabregas losing it, his style of play is not similar to the kind played like Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.

There are times Barcelona players stand in a position without moving and spray passes with themselves.

Fabregas was from the La Masia academy. He was Barcelona thorough, Like Iniesta, Xavi, Pique, Busquets, Pedro, Valdes, Puyol etc.

When Fabregas came back, he was not the same player that left to Arsenal.

The way Pellegrini plays his possession football is not the way Wenger plays. There is difference between Tito's possessive play and Guardiola but they are quite similar.

Arsene Wenger played possessively when Fabregas was at Arsenal. There was a time he was among the highest passers in the league with Mikel Obi and Alonso.

That does not mean his style suited Barcelona. When he arrived, he was not the same player. That was why sometimes he played the false 9 position go depend less on his build up play.

goldfish80:

Guardiola made a bad error in judgment bringing Fabregas because his midfield was already over loaded.
Mascherano had to be played in defence. For Fabregas to flourish, Xavi or iniesta had to make way and we nothing know that would not be possible. So why buy Fabregas?

goldfish80:

At Arsenal, Fabregas was already a world class player and captain. The youngest captain in the clubs history.
How do you mean he came back to Barcelona a worse player? When he left them when he was a juvenile.

These sort of statements you drop makes me sick.

goldfish80:

At Arsenal, Fabregas was already a world class player and captain. The youngest captain in the clubs history.
How do you mean he came back to Barcelona a worse player? When he left them when he was a juvenile.

These sort of statements you drop makes me sick.

TheGoodJoe:


Biting Thierry Henry. Although I agree with him. Arsene Wenger tried modelling the team to suit Fabregas but it did not mean Arsene Wenger built a team that plays the same style of Barca under Guardiola.

TheGoodJoe:


Barcelona, has every player from the Academy playing almost identical system.

You keep missing the point.

What your English media tags World Class is not compulsory that it is World class at Barcelona.

Ferguson did not have confidence in Pique and dropped him. To Barcelona he is World class.

Telling me Fabregas is world class does not mean those things that made him world class will make him World class at Barcelona.

Apart from Fabregas, Song, Hleb went to Barca and flopped. They were top class at Arsenal.

TheGoodJoe:


You doubt he can achieve what Ranieri did. How do you know? It just an assumption off your head.

Go and watch Manchester City preseason games this season. Watch the level of development of Angelino, Adarabioyo, Maffeo etc. There was a big difference in their games since Guardiola joined the team. Holding their own against Bayern Munich.

Go and check on Guardiola's Barca B team. He worked with young Stars like Busquets and Pedro and thy played amazing Tiki Taka football.

As I said, say what you know. You do not know if Guardiola can do it. You can not say Wage structure. Look at the youngsters that have come out through him. He is a great coach.

Gael Clichy who worked with Arsene Wenger for years, after his first training with Guardiola saidsad he I the best manager he ever worked with.

goldfish80:

You believe only Barcelona played ticki taka football because of your coach Guardiola?

Do you know Guardiola did part of his internship at Arsenal under wenger before getting his Uefa Pro licence?

Do you know Guardiola spent 1yr in Argentina to under study Marcelo Bielsa's football principles and pressing style?

Your pep Guardiola learnt from other things he knows from other great football minds. Its a bad argument saying his style of was unseen before.

I read when you mentioned some fancy things from Guardiola's vocabulary like floating 8,single pivot, false 9 etc....

All those fancy words when broken down had been played by other coaches before Guardiola.
Totti for example has been playing as a false 9 for Roma for donkey years before Guardiola started coaching....

People like Arigo Sacchi, Tele Santana, Cryuf had brought to life so many of these principles. Its only kids who know little about football would be intimidated by those vocabs not me.

goldfish80:

Why didn't Barcelona sell him for less than $5m to Chelsea if he wasn't world class?
The same Fabregas who Real Madrid fans applauded when he ran the show in Bernabue when Arsenal played there at the champions league.
How many opposing players have Madrid fans applauded before? Name just 3 please.

goldfish80:

That's clichés opinion. Henry played under the two managers but he will always say wenger was his best coach.
Hleb would say the same. Fabregas till date still says wenger was his best coach.

TheGoodJoe:


You are funny. So you are basing your argument from an article.

When you said Chgrynski, I shook my heard. It was years I head that name.

It is this article you are jumping with. Gunners.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10274082/pep-guardiola-has-wasted-millions-on-transfers-says-sunday-supplement

TheGoodJoe:


You are accurate at Missing the point.

A lot of Fans, Pundits, criticised Mikel as a terrible player. Why was he on the pitch. Mohrinho came and dumped him on the bench.

Guus Hiddink came and said, Mikel plays beautifully.

Opta statistics show that only Chelsea's Mikel John Obi has a better pass percentage rate. Of Scholes's 1,497 passes this season, 89.58% have reached their target.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2010/apr/30/paul-scholes-manchester-united-england

I see Fabregas as World Class. Honestly. But he was not a perfect fit for the system. No matter the drills, he was not the same Captain of the Barcelona academy team that left to Arsenal.

It does not mean he was a bad player.

Joe Hart is a fantastic keeper. He does not fit Guardiola's system. That does not make Joe Hart a bad goalkeeper.

goldfish80:

Funny enough, I don't even rate Joe Hart as a good goal keeper. I even rate frazer Forster more than him.
Joe Hart is prone to making atleast a blunder every 26 mins.. Lol

TheGoodJoe:


You want to tell me that Guardiola Interned at Emirates? I know. Or Arrigo Sacchi's AC Milan.

I can tell you Sacchi boys that Coach. Gullit, Rijkaard, Donadoni, Ancelotti.

Still, Rijkaard's philosophy is different from Gullit. Ancelotti is different from Donadoni.

Guardiola interning at Arsenal doesn't mean he coaches the same way.

Guardiola and Tito Almost have the same philosophy but there are still differences.

Fabregas was not a good fit. He did not blend seamlessly.

Under Spaletti at Roma, they mostly played with Montella, current AC Milan coach as the top man.

TheGoodJoe:


Do not tell me you are forgiveness. Seriously. Only forgiveness makes me this way.

I will not continue the discussion because I believe you are forgiveness.

If you say you are not, it will be hard for me.

I also believe the person who wrote stop arguing blindly that you won is you.

Forgiveness just vanished.

I also think you are adrainuche and the person who quoted you and said that you are the only person talking sense that Coach Siasia should not carry Mikel.

I sign out. It seems you just derail arguments to call yourself winner.

The similarities are too much to ignore.

goldfish80:

Am sorry, I don't have any other account on nairaland. This my handle is atleast 4years old.
The names you are mentioning are alien to me.

I don't even know the guy who talked about winning an argument.