gaelllic:




Your problem is that you have no good notion of the majesty of God.

Your problem is scale.

Your inability to comprehend eternal punishment reflects your failure to grasp infinite majesty, and the consequences of offense towards that.

Think well.

Think of all the suya (and other beef products) you've consumed all your life. Each meal, each bite was made possible by the death

of a creature which had no say in the matter. How many tears have you shed over them?

Every time you've used anti-insect aerosols, or even disinfectant, you have acted to take life you will never be able to create. Casually and

thoughtlessly. This is your right, men have dominion over animals.

But understand that the 'gap' in 'status' between you and the smallest bacterium is infinitely incomparable to the 'gap' between you

and God.

i.e. You could nurse a sick mosquito back to health, adopt it as a pet, feed it with your own blood, and still not have descended as low

as He does to have a relationship with you.

You are overestimating yourself in the grand scheme of things. And so you are unable to properly scale the gravity of sin,

and its just punishment.

I mentioned you in a post above so as to deal with this post as well.

mank1234:


Lol. To demonstrate gravity purely due to the two objects in the test, you need to do it in a vacuum, otherwise other forces will act on it (eg gravity due to earth, earth's magnetic field, etc).

Yes gravity keeps us on earth but what you wanted to proof is the gravity between the two objects in test and not that due to earth. So to do that you need to eliminate gravity due to external environment - the earth. And hence the need for a vacuum.

true though lol
.but my aim was to show ''how gravity works''...
Be it space or earth...it ''attracts the bodies''...
The vacuum and the inertia causes the orbit...
Catch my drift?

mank1234:
Leave the young man. A thousand year is like a day in God's eye. Eternity looks long to us but not to the creator. Scientist whom donnffd has so much faith have since come up with the notion that time is relative. Time runs faster here on earth than it does at international space station (ISS) which is extremely very close to us compared to the expanse of the universe. It is believed by some scientists that at the 'black hole' time might be almost at a standstill. If indeed that's true, then his view of eternity being too long is flawed because he's only looking at it from the perspective of the earth.

More so, it seems donnffd would be a very good judge since he has super knowledge of the universe, and what is moral and fair. May be he should just make himself God!

God is awesome, fear him. Seek to know him and worship him alone.

First of all, i dont think you know me well enough to know what and who i have faith in.

Second, Time is relative, doesnt mean its different, I think your understanding of Special Relativity is very elementary.

Time runs at the same rate in every frame of reference(@ the speed of causality C, which consequentially is the speed of light), the magic begins to happen when you move at enormous speeds or in a vicinity of enormous gravity, your time seems to slow down relative to an outside observer, in the otherwords, if you were moving at 99.5% the speed of light, one minute would still be one minute for you, but for a stationary observer who is looking at your clock, that one minute would seem like 1year to him/her.

Now that in no way answers the problem of infinite time, no matter how time dilates, as long as you have an event that would never end, it is still regarded as Eternity. So your idea of "A thousand year is like a day in God's eye", and your limited understand of special relativity still doesn't shy away from an Eternity in Hell.

Like i said in an earlier post, just because you have infinite real numbers between 0 and 1 doesn't mean there are no infinite whole numbers!

mank1234:


Go back and read again. I referred to atheist and you not scientist; not all atheist are scientist.
Here's the original text: How come it's easy for an atheist to believe that it takes light from a star more than a year to reach earth but difficult to believe that there's a creator?

Most atheist don't have the luxury of looking through a telescope nor any means to verify what cosmologist/astronomers postulate. Likewise you and I. For you to accept what you can't proof, that's faith.

Again, even if you're a scientist, you can't be all knowing in all field. Science is a very broad subject. So you still have to depend on some form of believe which I call faith to accept what scientists in other field postulate.

Cosmology/astronomy as a field in science is full of so many divergent and conflicting views.

wrong...thats ''fact'' to those working there...and ''trust'' for us..
Not ''faith''
you dont believe your parents by ''faith''...but by ''trust''

and mind you...individuals have telescopes...also private space companies are plenttiful..
Also quest for world dominance...
I see no reasn why ''russia'' etc would participate in a lie...when they have intentions of usurping usa...

raphieMontella:

what is the third dimension sir?....time... So??
Its an analogy bruh..you're mixing it up

because you just dont want to know about gravity...
The Third d is time bruh...

the vacuum causes the orbit...
The curvature/dip of gravity causes the attraction sire...
The mass of an object causes a ''dip'' in space..


ignorance is not a right to folly bruh...


like you said...the earth is heavier than the moon..
The moon is closer to the earth than it is to the sun...and so it is in the earth's hill sphere ..
arth's pull on the moon is greater than the sun's ''pull'' on the moon...
The law of universal gravitation gives the answer bruh...[f=(Gm1m2)/r2]

Distance and mass..matters in gravity


the answer is ''above''...
Now imagine a lot of balls...with different strings to that ''post''..
The uneven distribution of the ''masses'' causes ''dips'' at uneven locations


no bruh..you should look up ''emperical''...not me...
U asked for emperical evidence...
I told you ''gravity keeps you to the ground''...thats the observation you need....


If youre expecting emperical evidence of space from me...then disbelieve the speed of light and the speed of sound in air...

The third dimension is height. Time is posited (wrongly) as the fourth.

Everything else is similarly wrong.

Brief remedial, I hope it helps. Try to grasp this, please.

I will teach you the difference between observation, inference and empirical evidence.

Observation - One sees something.

Inference - One theorises concerning the cause.

Empirical evidence - One designs a falsifiable experiment to test, and hopefully, prove the theory.

E.g.

Observation - light bulb comes on.

Inference - perhaps its magic... or perhaps its a tiny sun.. .or perhaps its electricity...

Evidence - the flow of electrons can be measured, it can be induced, it can be stored. So we have evidence of the physical
phenomenon (electric current), and its medium (copper wire).


Observation - plants die in darkness

Inference - perhaps they were lonely...perhaps plants need light...or perhaps its magic

Evidence - The activity of photosynthesis can be observed in the lab. Along with the medium in which it occurs (chlorophyll). Its
rate may be measured, and its dependence on chlorophyll proven.


Observation - metal attracts metal

Inference - perhaps metal is friendly...perhaps magic again...perhaps there is a force which exists in/around the metal

Evidence - this force can be detected, it can be induced in metal, it's direction can be measured (compass) as well as its
magnitude (magnetometer).

So let's take this from the top.

Observation - objects seek horizontal rest.

Inference - magic?...invisible companions holding us all down, or perhaps there is a force which exists in/around all objects (gravity).

Evidence - ??

raphieMontella:
I told you ''gravity keeps you to the ground''...thats the observation you need...

You've taken the observation and called it the evidence. You could have just chosen magic.

Now you go find me something that fits in that third row.

donnffd:

Third, You seem to acknowledge that God is tyrannical in his rule over us and noone should question him, but when i say the same thing point black, i am reprimanded by you and others like gaelllic. What is the difference between "God being so great that if you offended him,you would burn for all of eternity" and "God is a tyrant"?

Alright, man.

Look at it another way.

Every soul will exist eternally. Death is separation, not cessation.

Given this, any finite period of suffering must ultimately pass away.

Any finite period of suffering is insignificant with regard to Eternity. Even if it were a million million etc. years, relative to 'infinite time' its worth

would be less than that of a second's relative to your mortal life.

Thus, any finite suffering, is equivalent to an infinitesimal span of one's eternal existence. It would be like (in mortal terms) condemning a vile

murderer to an instant of pain (a quick jab with an empty needle, say).

Our eternal existence renders any finite punishment less than a mere slap on the wrist.

Besides, suppose the exonerated damned were to rebel again? What then? Endless cycles of finite pain and repentance ad infinitum?

So the unjust can then challenge Infinite Majesty without any real fear of real regret?

God's Justice must be Eternal and Final. QED.

donnffd:
I dont see humans giving a bat's eye what a bateria does or does not do, infact we dont care and even if those bateria worships us, they would be wasting their time and energy because we would not notice it even a single bit!

Your local chairman probably doesn't notice you.

You wouldn't notice a sentient bacterium.

But He notices you. And your best act of gratitude is to challenge him.

gaelllic:


Alright, man.

Look at it another way.

Every soul will exist eternally. Death is separation, not cessation.

Given this, any finite period of suffering must ultimately pass away.

Any finite period of suffering is insignificant with regard to Eternity. Even if it were a million million etc. years, relative to 'infinite time' its worth

would be less than that of a second's relative to your mortal life.

Thus, any finite suffering, is equivalent to an infinitesimal span of one's eternal existence. It would be like (in mortal terms) condemning a vile

murderer to an instant of pain (a quick jab with an empty needle, say).

Our eternal existence renders any finite punishment less than a mere slap on the wrist.

Besides, suppose the exonerated damned were to rebel again? What then? Endless cycles of finite pain and repentance ad infinitum?

So the unjust can then challenge Infinite Majesty without any real fear of real regret?

God's Justice must be Eternal and Final. QED.



Your local chairman probably doesn't notice you.

You wouldn't notice a sentient bacterium.

But He notices you. And your best act of gratitude is to challenge him.

So instead of total destruction and be done with it, it is more humane to punish for all of eternity?

I thought God was all powerful?, why cant he just destroy the soul and be done with it?

donnffd:


So instead of total destruction and be done with it, it is more humane to punish for all of eternity?

I thought God was all powerful?, why cant he just destroy the soul and be done with it?

Why should He?

Them that killed Christ, why did they not just poison Him?

Why the grievous torture?

Do you know that all sinners are complicit in this torture?

Do you know that, for punishment to fit crime, the sufferer must be made truly sorry for what he has done?
(Not stubbornly insisting, 'Just wait till I'm out...!' like many career criminals do?)

Judgement must, at some stage, be Final.

As per 'humane'...

Do you know who Jimmy Saville was?

Do you think that merely 'undoing his existence' would be adequate punishment for him?

Why jail a rapist for decades? Pain, danger, loneliness, idleness, regret for what might have been...

Why not just give him a sound beating and 'be done with it'?


Evil men think not on
judgment: but they that seek after the Lord, take notice of all things

Proverbs 28:5

May I ask what kind of life you live? Broadly?

There is a level of clarity that will avoid you as long as sin rules in your life.

Indeed, it is often secret attachment to such sins that spur this obstinate disbelief, this fervent and fruitless wish that the doer

will 'one day get away with it'.

donnffd:


First of all, i dont think you know me well enough to know what and who i have faith in.

Second, Time is relative, doesnt mean its different, I think your understanding of Special Relativity is very elementary.

Time runs at the same rate in every frame of reference(@ the speed of causality C, which consequentially is the speed of light), the magic begins to happen when you move at enormous speeds or in a vicinity of enormous gravity, your time seems to slow down relative to an outside observer, in the otherwords, if you were moving at 99.5% the speed of light, one minute would still be one minute for you, but for a stationary observer who is looking at your clock, that one minute would seem like 1year to him/her.

Now that in no way answers the problem of infinite time, no matter how time dilates, as long as you have an event that would never end, it is still regarded as Eternity. So your idea of "A thousand year is like a day in God's eye", and your limited understand of special relativity still doesn't shy away from an Eternity in Hell.

Like i said in an earlier post, just because you have infinite real numbers between 0 and 1 doesn't mean there are no infinite whole numbers!

I don't need to know you to disagree with you on social media if you publicly state your view and show disdain too others view with respect to mattersmnof religion.

donnffd:


First of all, i dont think you know me well enough to know what and who i have faith in.

Second, Time is relative, doesnt mean its different, I think your understanding of Special Relativity is very elementary.

Time runs at the same rate in every frame of reference(@ the speed of causality C, which consequentially is the speed of light), the magic begins to happen when you move at enormous speeds or in a vicinity of enormous gravity, your time seems to slow down relative to an outside observer, in the otherwords, if you were moving at 99.5% the speed of light, one minute would still be one minute for you, but for a stationary observer who is looking at your clock, that one minute would seem like 1year to him/her.

Now that in no way answers the problem of infinite time, no matter how time dilates, as long as you have an event that would never end, it is still regarded as Eternity. So your idea of "A thousand year is like a day in God's eye", and your limited understand of special relativity still doesn't shy away from an Eternity in Hell.

Like i said in an earlier post, just because you have infinite real numbers between 0 and 1 doesn't mean there are no infinite whole numbers!

Firstly, I don't need to know you to disagree with you on social media if you publicly state your view and show disdain too others view with respect to mattersmnof religion.

Secondly, my statement centered on general relativity and not special relativity. Consequently, I'll disregard your second paragraph for straying off the point I raised.

Does our instrument of measuring time, actually show different time at differing distance from the earth's core? Is time a function of gravity. Yes, you alluded to this. Closer to the core it is slower, away from it it is faster. What will be the effect if the gravity was so great as it is in black hole? Will it be at standstill? Are you aware that even light is unable to escape the gravitational pull of the black hole?

Yes time is relative. A day on earth is not same as in Pluto. A year on earth is not same as in Pluto. Eternity is culmination of passage of time. If this is so, then eternity on earth cannot be same as eternity on Pluto and cannot be same everywhere else in the universe.

For the first time raphieMontella I appreciate the way you presented facts and reasons in defence of your position. I hope this can continue and I tell you, you are on the way of becoming a friend.

You have some very strong point here to which I may not have adequate answer; but I will try my best.

raphieMontella:

like when asked to let the israelites go...he refused...but how does he know he is willingly refusing their freedom? It may seem so..bt a ''destiny'' is a destiny...
Read romans 9:17

I read the whole of Rom9:1-33 and I must confess, you have a point. How can Pharaoh know that he was following a script destined for him? Rom9 seems to say that God reserves the right to do with anyone whatever He chooses. Using the illustration of the Potter and the Clay, God is sovereign and thus justified. If this is the case, then the whole episode falls on Gods Responsibility to punish or not to punish a mans action. To this end, no one knows how God will decide/judge the case.

However, can anyone say that his misbehaviour on earth was caused by God? No!
For God could say "I didn't make you do evil..you chose to do evil by your own volition". In that case, the responsibility falls on man to do his utmost at being righteous. If indeed God designed him for evil and he did evil despite the fact that he strove to do good, then since God is righteous, he might have a case.


However, in the case of Judas, there is no evidence that he was destined to betray Jesus

raphieMontella:

read psalm 41:9
john 13:10,18(mark 14:18,20)
matthew 26:23,25
john 13:26,27
link all these bible passages...and explain judas wasnt destined to bleep jesus...
P.s would have posted the verses mentioned above here..but am afraid of a ban from those bots

---

The above is just a case of Foreknowledge and Devine Timing in action. If Jesus was born in Nigeria, one of his friends would have betrayed him. Foreknowledge is different from Predestination!

An example: I have a foreknowledge that the sun will be up in the afternoon tomorrow, therefore, I wash my clothes tonight to be dried tomorrow afternoon. This statement is valid even though I have no power to to predestine whether the sun will be up or not.

The prophecy of Judas betrayal was just a report of Foreknowledge!

raphieMontella:
also...i have bible verses which signify that god predestines some persons to heaven...''elect'' or sommething..

The scripture is:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Step 1: Foreknowledge
Step2: Predestination for those who were Foreknown to conform to the image of Christ.

If you where NOT foreknown, you are not predestined!

raphieMontella:

wrong...thats ''fact'' to those working there...and ''trust'' for us..
Not ''faith''
you dont believe your parents by ''faith''...but by ''trust''

and mind you...individuals have telescopes...also private space companies are plenttiful..
Also quest for world dominance...
I see no reasn why ''russia'' etc would participate in a lie...when they have intentions of usurping usa...

True..."facts" for those who have encountered God and "trust" for those who listen to them.
That's "faith"
Same way the adherents of the respective religions, also have trust in their God!
I see no reason also, why US, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia etc would recognise religion to the point of enshrining it in their constitution if they were a lie.

raphieMontella:

wrong...thats ''fact'' to those working there...and ''trust'' for us..
Not ''faith''
you dont believe your parents by ''faith''...but by ''trust''

and mind you...individuals have telescopes...also private space companies are plenttiful..
Also quest for world dominance...
I see no reasn why ''russia'' etc would participate in a lie...when they have intentions of usurping usa...

True..."facts" for those who have encountered God and "trust" for those who listen to them.
That's "faith"
(Same way the adherents of the respective religions, also have trust in their God!)
I see no reason also, why US, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia etc would recognise religion to the point of enshrining it in their constitution if they were a lie.

gaelllic:


Why should He?

Them that killed Christ, why did they not just poison Him?

Why the grievous torture?

Do you know that all sinners are complicit in this torture?

Do you know that, for punishment to fit crime, the sufferer must be made truly sorry for what he has done?
(Not stubbornly insisting, 'Just wait till I'm out...!' like many career criminals do?)

Judgement must, at some stage, be Final.

As per 'humane'...

Do you know who Jimmy Saville was?

Do you think that merely 'undoing his existence' would be adequate punishment for him?

Why jail a rapist for decades? Pain, danger, loneliness, idleness, regret for what might have been...

Why not just give him a sound beating and 'be done with it'?


Evil men think not on
judgment: but they that seek after the Lord, take notice of all things

Proverbs 28:5

May I ask what kind of life you live? Broadly?

There is a level of clarity that will avoid you as long as sin rules in your life.

Indeed, it is often secret attachment to such sins that spur this obstinate disbelief, this fervent and fruitless wish that the doer

will 'one day get away with it'.

First of all, I said it before and would say it again, Noone who commited a crime in a finite amount of time deserves a punishment that would last for eternity. The idea is primitive and barbaric.

Secondly, So because i call out the barbaric nature of the punishment of hell automatically means i am a sinner and i want to continue in my sinful ways...lol

Well i guess since i stand for gay rights and dignity, i also want to be a gay, and since i am pro-choice, i guess my gf is pregnant and i want to do abortion.

I dont need to be a bad person to realize that the punishment for being bad is inhumane and barbaric.

gaelllic:


The third dimension is height. Time is posited (wrongly) as the fourth.

ye time the fourth...
Space is 3d...we live in space-time 4d...

Observation - light bulb comes on.

Inference - perhaps its magic... or perhaps its a tiny sun.. .or perhaps its electricity...

Evidence - the flow of electrons can be measured, it can be induced, it can be stored. So we have evidence of the physical
phenomenon (electric current), and its medium (copper wire).


Observation - plants die in darkness

Inference - perhaps they were lonely...perhaps plants need light...or perhaps its magic

Evidence - The activity of photosynthesis can be observed in the lab. Along with the medium in which it occurs (chlorophyll). Its
may be measured, and its dependence on chlorophyll proven.


Observation - metal attracts metal

Inference - perhaps metal is friendly...perhaps magic again...perhaps there is a force which exists in/around the metal

Evidence - this force can be detected, it can be induced in metal, it's direction can be measured (compass) as well as its
magnitude (magnetometer).

So let's take this from the top.

Observation - objects seek horizontal rest.

Inference - magic?...invisible companions holding us all down, or perhaps there is a force which exists in/around all objects (gravity).

Evidence - ??




You've taken the observation and called it evidence. You could have just chosen magic.

Now you go find me something that fits in that third row.

evidence i gave you?


Gravity has been measured...
Laws governing gravity made and constant with calculations
artificial gravity has been induced...
We have been able to conduct gravity assisted flights...

Wetin again?

gaelllic:


If that was an off-topic response then you simply cannot read.



Or write for that matter. (This one just replies itself.)



People probably laugh at your Americanisms in real life.

And why should they? Do they laugh also laugh at all Americans?
Oh well, Probably your ignoramus envious types.
FYI your thick accent is chuckled at worldwide.
Folks can hardly understand when you 'talk' not speak english.

Bomboclauud!!!

mank1234:


Firstly, I don't need to know you to disagree with you on social media if you publicly state your view and show disdain too others view with respect to mattersmnof religion.

So stating a view thats different from yours is now disdain for your view and religion...smh, xtians always playing the victims when they are challenged...

Secondly, my statement centered on general relativity and not special relativity. Consequently, I'll disregard your second paragraph for straying off the point I raised.

Does our instrument of measuring time, actually show different time at differing distance from the earth's core? Is time a function of gravity. Yes, you alluded to this. Closer to the core it is slower, away from it it is faster. What will be the effect if the gravity was so great as it is in black hole? Will it be at standstill? Are you aware that even light is unable to escape the gravitational pull of the black hole?

Yes time is relative. A day on earth is not same as in Pluto. A year on earth is not same as in Pluto. Eternity is culmination of passage of time. If this is so, then eternity on earth cannot be same as eternity on Pluto and cannot be same everywhere else in the universe.

Dude, Special relativity is the relative nature of Distance and Time in different reference points, General relativity is talking about Gravity.

Please know the difference before coming to talk about it...

Then you dont even understand how this time relativity works, what do you mean by time stands still, i just explained to you, from a distant reference point, the person close to a black hole clock would appear to slow down but to the person on the black hole, he wud be killed in a matter of seconds and would experience time the same way we experience time.

Look, its obvious you just heard about relativity and want to feel intelligent and coming to blow grammar but sincerely, dont do that with me, i know Special relativity and general relativity like the back of my hand.

So i can specifically tell you that what is said about time being different on pluto is "BULLSCRAP".

Go and learn about it before coming to argue, and if you still want to argue, i wont answer you...

NB: where and when does infinity feels shorter than infinity?, are you listening to yourself?, do you know what infinity is? Even if you are correct(which you are not), Eternity on pluto would still be eternity because it is life without END, jeez, where is your logic?

shadeyinka:
For the first time raphieMontella I appreciate the way you presented facts and reasons in defence of your position. I hope this can continue and I tell you, you are on the way of becoming a friend.

no problem brother

You have some very strong point here to which I may not have adequate answer; but I will try my best.



I read the whole of Rom9:1-33 and I must confess, you have a point. How can Pharaoh know that he was following a script destined for him? Rom9 seems to say that God reserves the right to do with anyone whatever He chooses. Using the illustration of the Potter and the Clay, God is sovereign and thus justified. If this is the case, then the whole episode falls on Gods Responsibility to punish or not to punish a mans action. To this end, no one knows how God will decide/judge the case.

However, can anyone say that his misbehaviour on earth was caused by God? No!
For God could say "I didn't make you do evil..you chose to do evil by your own volition". In that case, the responsibility falls on man to do his utmost at being righteous. If indeed God designed him for evil and he did evil despite the fact that he strove to do good, then since God is righteous, he might have a case.

aiit..so he does predestinate at times

However, in the case of Judas, there is no evidence that he was destined to betray Jesus



The above is just a case of Foreknowledge and Devine Timing in action. If Jesus was born in Nigeria, one of his friends would have betrayed him. Foreknowledge is different from Predestination!

okay...
But when you are the creator and all knowing...
Why then ''go-ahead'' to still create the person?

The scripture is:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Step 1: Foreknowledge
Step2: Predestination for those who were Foreknown to conform to the image of Christ.

If you where NOT foreknown, you are not predestined!

look at the bolded..dont you think that since god is the creator of all of us(our souls and spirit) he has foreknown us all?
Look at jer 1:5..

Look at john the baptist...read from luke 1:11- the end..couple that with the prophecy which said abt his coming in isaiah 40:3...
How wasnt he predestined?


Ok...lets look at these verses
ephesians 1:4-5

and 2 thessalonians 13
take note of the words there
''beginning and foundation of the world...''

donnffd:


I do understand the concept of Time and sincerely from all logical points of view, Hell cannot exist without the concept of Time .

In physics, Time is just the sequence of events, as long as events occur, then time has occured, and so if we want to use a framework where events happen but no time exist, then we are heading to a paradox, but lets just say for the sake of argument, that time is different and 100billion years on earth is 20minutes in Hell or the spiritual world, as long as the events taking place in Hell never ends, you cant shy away from it, it is Infinity, in other words Eternity.

I am sure you have heard of Infinities inside Infinities, and Actual infinities, stuffs like that.

This idea describes it, so if someone is feeling pain in hell and that pain would never stop, then it is for eternity no matter how you measure it relating to time on earth.

Just as they are infinite decimal numbers between 0 and 1, doesnt mean there are no infinite whole numbers, so likewise this.

You seem to be saying:
Time is the measure of intervals between events.
Events take place in Heaven
Therefore, time Exists in Heaven!

However, the measure of time needs a REFERENCE (usually celestial) and the scriptures speak of the fact that day and night doesn't exist. Time just simply doesn't Exist..events are not defined or marked with respect to time.

I assume that in the spiritual space, concurent events, parallel events are the norm.

Boredom is a function of time. Imagine if you are to do a favorite activity like skiing or eating vanilla ice cream continuously for several hours, those favorite activities WILL become boring. Therefore, in a space where you live for eternity, it makes sense if events happen without the rule of time.

So, relative to earths time, the time in the spiritual space is infinity but it still doesn't mean that time exists there.

Finally, how do you think the concept of timelessness can be communicated to men without using the word forever or eternity!

donnffd:

You seem to be making my point for me.

First,If God is so infinitely larger than us that he cannot comprehend our feeble emotions, and reasonings and mistakes and triumphs, then why worship such a being that obviously cannot relate with you on a personal level but demands so much as to giving him your entire life?

LOL! I think you have either magnified yourself either to the level of God or you have reduced God to the level of man. Unfortunately for man, many so called human beings pass the selection criteria (exam) of God. Why not you also. You may have a point if ALL men fail Gods exam because of their frailty but that is not so.

Do you care how much labour a bee exerts to make honey? It is the end result that justifies whether or not a bacteria, insect, virus and animal are useful to you. Are you useful to God?

donnffd:

Second, If God is so infinitely larger than us, why should he care whether we worship him or not, and why should he care about what we do or what we dont do, I dont see humans giving a bat's eye what a bateria does or does not do, infact we dont care and even if those bateria worships us, they would be wasting their time and energy because we would not notice it even a single bit!

You still keep on saying God send people to hell because of worship! NO! NO! NO! God doesn't send people to hell because of worship. Anyone who is useless to God goes to His refuse bin (hell).

Yes, we don't care if bacteria's worship us BUT we care about these Bacteria's doing our biddens. We selectively promote the growth of some (yogurt bacteria's) and destroy others (typhoid bacteria). Now, because we are beings of intelligence and consciousness we worship Him who gave us all we have. Is it a crime if I stamp out all bacteria's responsible for cholera in the world? Should I care if these cholera bacteria suffer for eternity?

donnffd:

Third, You seem to acknowledge that God is tyrannical in his rule over us and noone should question him, but when i say the same thing point black, i am reprimanded by you and others like gaelllic. What is the difference between "God being so great that if you offended him,you would burn for all of eternity" and "God is a tyrant"?

The Bible say: can the clay accuse the potter of anything? The potter can choose to destroy a masterpiece and remold it into something else. A porter has the right to discard some clay material he considers as not useful to his cause. How does that make the Porter a Tyrant?

donnffd:

Thank you.

You just stated the exact reason for a belief in such a barbaric act.

The originators of the concept of Hell lived in a society where the peasants dare not offend the rich, lords and the kings, if you did, you hands could be chopped off or tongue sliced off or eyes plucked out.

These was the culture and tradition and so when they taught of the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE who is far grander than any king, lord or Noble, they imagined the punishment against such a being would be infinitely greater than what they were accustomed to.

That's how the concept of Hell prevailed, but like many things, these ancient cultures were extremely wrong and primitive so to say, and they imposed their primitiveness on their creator.

Modern day intellectuals like you still hold these primitive ideas that survived from a different time,different world and different culture and defend it even though you know deep within your heart its a barbaric and primitive idea or concept.

I couldn't help but chuckle on reading this. You seem to be giving a rational for the concept of hell that has its root in kings::subject relation. Why not the reverse as in before the concept of hell, humans must have understood that "the gods" punish men for committing sacrileges and abominations?

It is simple to understand based on these theistic "premise":
1. Man exists after death
2. If God exists and is a Just God then He must Reward Righteousness and Punish Evil

The two bases above are the foundation of every form of theism and judgement is a logical conclusion.

donnffd:

Well,That's still debatable.

God is the God (Creator of ALL)
God is the Father of whomever He Adopts as a Child

So stating that one has faith in aspects of science one cannot proof is wrong? If that's wrong then your statement on xtian paying victim is also wrong. It's stated on same premise.

Dude you are very wrong there. General relativity deals with time, gravity and relative distance while special relativity introduces relative velocity.

Ordinarily, i would have just ignored you on this but for the benefit of others who would come to read this thread; for you're not different from the rest. Leaving the question to attack the person. That's very elementary. You've not answered the questions raised. Do we get different result when we measure time at different distance from the core of the earth?

Infinity is infinity because the the unit of measure, number, is constant; one is one. Eternity is different at different locations because the unit of measurement, time is not constant.

(On religion) Leave religious matter to religion. You can't proof or disproof eternal punishment, nor can you proof the existence or non-existence of God. You can only disagree on what is written in some of the religious books base purely on your limited understanding. The complexity of life and the universe suggests that there's God - it's evident in nature not by proof.

(On science) For now, there's a limit to what our instruments can measure. Not all frequencies can be measured now, not all light wavelength is measurable... the list goes on and on. That's why science can't give us answer to everything, at least for now.

Bye

donnffd:

So stating a view thats different from yours is now disdain for your view and religion...smh, xtians always playing the victims when they are challenged...



Dude, Special relativity is the relative nature of Distance and Time in different reference points, General relativity is talking about Gravity.

Please know the difference before coming to talk about it...

Then you dont even understand how this time relativity works, what do you mean by time stands still, i just explained to you, from a distant reference point, the person close to a black hole clock would appear to slow down but to the person on the black hole, he wud be killed in a matter of seconds and would experience time the same way we experience time.

Look, its obvious you just heard about relativity and want to feel intelligent and coming to blow grammar but sincerely, dont do that with me, i know Special relativity and general relativity like the back of my hand.

So i can specifically tell you that what is said about time being different on pluto is "BULLSCRAP".

Go and learn about it before coming to argue, and if you still want to argue, i wont answer you...

NB: where and when does infinity feels shorter than infinity?, are you listening to yourself?, do you know what infinity is? Even if you are correct(which you are not), Eternity on pluto would still be eternity because it is life without END, jeez, where is your logic?

donnffd:


First of all, I said it before and would say it again, Noone who commited a crime in a finite amount of time deserves a punishment that would last for eternity. The idea is primitive and barbaric.

You. A mere bag of blood and saliva, sandwiched between two halves of Eternity, who does not know from whence he came nor where he

goes, presume to arrogate to yourself the power to dictate what is Good and what is Evil? You are not well.

donnffd:

Secondly, So because i 'call out the barbaric nature of the punishment of hell' automatically means i am a sinner and i want to continue in my sinful ways...lol

Yes. It precisely and automatically does.

donnffd:

Well i guess since i stand for gay rights and dignity, i also want to be a gay, and since i am pro-choice, i guess my gf is pregnant and i want to do abortion.

A lover of sodomy and the murder of babes.

See.

See the slimy thoughts that slither about in the dank cavern this creature calls its mind.

donnffd:


I dont need to be a bad person to 'realize' that the punishment for being bad is inhumane and barbaric.

You do. And you are.

raphieMontella:


artificial gravity has been induced...

Really?

By whom? On what date? In which country?

Tell us, so we may celebrate this great man.

gaelllic:



You. A mere bag of blood and saliva, sandwiched between two halves of Eternity, who does not know from whence he came nor where he

goes, presume to arrogate to yourself the power to dictate what is Good and what is Evil? You are not well.




Yes. It precisely and automatically does.




A lover of sodomy and the murder of babes.

See.

See the slimy thoughts that slither about in the dank cavern this creature calls its mind.



You do. And you are.

k

raphieMontella:

no problem brother

aiit..so he does predestinate at times
''

The focus of Rom8:28-29 is about Eternal Life. To whom God foreknew, He predestined to conform to the nature of His son. It is a followup of the scripture talking about the Lamb of God, slain from the Foundation of the world. It shows that God from the eternal past know those who will Love Him unconditionally by their will and so "looks at them as Sons" even though they are not yet free from the body of sin. ..to those who believe on His name, He gave the power to become Sons of God.

Answering your question, God does not tempt with evil...and God reserves the right as the Potter to mold His clay into any form He wants.

raphieMontella:

okay...
But when you are the creator and all knowing...
Why then ''go-ahead'' to still create the person?
''

So that His overall objective will come to pass. Its the same question as "why should God tempt Adam and Eve with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" when God knows that they will fall? The result will be a separation between those who choose to Love and Trust Him unconditionally and OTHERS! .

Your question is like:
Why does a teacher set exam questions when he knows that some students will fail? Why shouldn't he just give all the students the marking guide?

raphieMontella:

look at the bolded..dont you think that since god is the creator of all of us(our souls and spirit) he has foreknown us all?
Look at jer 1:5..

Look at john the baptist...read from luke 1:11- the end..couple that with the prophecy which said abt his coming in isaiah 40:3...
How wasnt he predestined?


Ok...lets look at these verses
ephesians 1:4-5

and 2 thessalonians 13
take note of the words there
''beginning and foundation of the world...''

The foreknown in Rom8:28-29 is about salvation (A function of Love and Trust). God is Omniscient so He knows everything and Everyone past, present and future.

The key phase is predestined to conform to the image of Christ. If God foreknew that the conclusion of your live will be a life of Hatered and Distrust of Him, then you are NOT viewed as His Son.

I have explained before, Gods foreknowledge is NOT the same thing as predestination.


Finally, don't you see that Atheists are passionate about Evangelism? For what purpose? Could it be that they are running a script from Satan?

Why the deep hatred against the One who says "Love the Lord your God and Love your neighbor as yourself"? What is wrong with this "philosophy"?

It is a futile effort to scientifically disprove God and you know it. Do you know why Atheists are so passionate about Christianity (religion). It is called " the crowd Effect"! It is more painful to take a punishment in isolation than as a group because you have several reference to the fact that your punishment isn't the greatest!

What is the Goal of Atheism? That every one in the world be "weaned from God"? For what purpose?

You read and study about Atheism because you want to convince yourself against your conscience that you are on track. You come to Nairaland to test your logic against the theists 'cause it calms you down when you think you have a Superior logical answer to a theist.

It is still not too late to come back to Him if you were ever Born Again. He still Loves you all the same but He is also a God of Justice. Whatever a man sows, that he shall reap...good or evil..life or death...choose life that you may live.

I am convinced that your conscience still speaks to you.
Shalom!

gaelllic:

Really?
By whom? On what date? In which country?
Tell us, so we may celebrate this great man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity

find in page ----rats/requirements for gravity and space missions

raphieMontella:



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gravity


find in page ----rats/requirements for gravity and space missions

Your link:

Artificial gravity is an acceleration resulting from the application of a force.
In the context of manned spaceflight, artificial gravity may alleviate the adverse health effects of prolonged weightlessness.[1] Astronauts
routinely experience intermittent accelerations caused by the force of a rocket engine. However, the term artificial gravity usually
refers to a sustained Normal force provided by a rigid structure in uniform circular motion.

Apparently it is you who lost interest in physics early on.

Remedial, semester 2. Briefly.

As per the highlighted, the article refers to a simulation of 'gravitational effect' by accelerating an object. This would be similar to

describing the force pinning a piece of paper to a moving car windshield as 'induced gravity'. Clearly false.

The 'effect' is being simulated. The force itself is not produced.

Your link :

Gravity can be simulated in various ways:


Rotation

A rotating spacecraft will produce the feeling of inertia on its inside hull. The rotation drives any object inside the spacecraft toward
the hull, thereby giving the appearance of a gravitational pull directed outward. .

Thus, the "gravity" felt by the objects is simply the reaction force of the object on the hull reacting to
the centripetal force of the hull on the object, in accordance with Newton's Third Law.

Please note that the quote marks above are not mine.

The effects of electricity are not 'simulated'. (e.g. lighting a tiny match in the light bulb).

Actual electricity is actually (i.e truly) produced by artificial means. Ditto for magnetism, or nuclear energy.

True artificial gravity would be draw people towards the centre of the craft, rather than pushing them outwards (centrifugal force).


Your link :

However, the term artificial gravity usually refers to a sustained Normal force provided by a rigid
structure in uniform circular motion

The rotation drives any object inside the spacecraft toward the hull, thereby giving the appearance of
a gravitational pull directed outward. Often referred to as a centrifugal force, the "pull" is actually a
manifestation of the inertia of the objects inside the spacecraft


No one has ever, or will ever, produce 'gravity'. QED.


Addendum :

Do not merely regurgitate textbooks in order to pass exams, or for a pat on the head.

Face physical facts. And challenge received knowledge if it is false.

Or are you among them who are only rebels when it is time to challenge God?

Do you find yourself docile when it is time to challenge (errant) man?

shadeyinka:


The focus of Rom8:28-29 is about Eternal Life. To whom God foreknew, He predestined to conform to the nature of His son. It is a followup of the scripture talking about the Lamb of God, slain from the Foundation of the world. It shows that God from the eternal past know those who will Love Him unconditionally by their will and so "looks at them as Sons" even though they are not yet free from the body of sin. ..to those who believe on His name, He gave the power to become Sons of God.

Answering your question, God does not tempt with evil...and God reserves the right as the Potter to mold His clay into any form He wants.



So that His overall objective will come to pass. Its the same question as "why should God tempt Adam and Eve with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" when God knows that they will fall? The result will be a separation between those who choose to Love and Trust Him unconditionally and OTHERS! .

Your question is like:
Why does a teacher set exam questions when he knows that some students will fail? Why shouldn't he just give all the students the marking guide?





The foreknown in Rom8:28-29 is about salvation (A function of Love and Trust). God is Omniscient so He knows everything and Everyone past, present and future.

The key phase is predestined to conform to the image of Christ. If God foreknew that the conclusion of your live will be a life of Hatered and Distrust of Him, then you are NOT viewed as His Son.

I have explained before, Gods foreknowledge is NOT the same thing as predestination.


Finally, don't you see that Atheists are passionate about Evangelism? For what purpose? Could it be that they are running a script from Satan?



It is a futile effort to scientifically disprove God and you know it. Do you know why Atheists are so passionate about Christianity (religion). It is called " the crowd Effect"! It is more painful to take a punishment in isolation than as a group because you have several reference to the fact that your punishment isn't the greatest!

What is the Goal of Atheism? That every one in the world be "weaned from God"? For what purpose?

You read and study about Atheism because you want to convince yourself against your conscience that you are on track. You come to Nairaland to test your logic against the theists 'cause it calms you down when you think you have a Superior logical answer to a theist.

It is still not too late to come back to Him if you were ever Born Again. He still Loves you all the same but He is also a God of Justice. Whatever a man sows, that he shall reap...good or evil..life or death...choose life that you may live.

I am convinced that your conscience still speaks to you.
Shalom!

why the ad hominems bruh?

Bottomline..
Christianity cannot exist without predestination...

gaelllic:


Your link:

Artificial gravity is an acceleration resulting from the application of a force.
In the context of manned spaceflight, artificial gravity may alleviate the adverse health effects of prolonged weightlessness.[1] Astronauts
routinely experience intermittent accelerations caused by the force of a rocket engine. However, the term artificial gravity usually
refers to a sustained Normal force provided by a rigid structure in uniform circular motion.

Apparently it is you who lost interest in physics early on.

Remedial, semester 2. Briefly.

As per the highlighted, the article refers to a simulation of 'gravitational effect' by accelerating an object. This would be similar to

describing the force pinning a piece of paper to a moving car windshield as 'induced gravity'. Clearly false.

The 'effect' is being simulated. The force itself is not produced.

Your link :

Gravity can be simulated in various ways:


Rotation

A rotating spacecraft will produce the feeling of inertia on its inside hull. The rotation drives any object inside the spacecraft toward
the hull, thereby giving the appearance of a gravitational pull directed outward. .

Thus, the "gravity" felt by the objects is simply the reaction force of the object on the hull reacting to
the centripetal force of the hull on the object, in accordance with Newton's Third Law.

Please note that the quote marks above are not mine.

The effects of electricity are not 'simulated'. (e.g. lighting a tiny match in the light bulb).

Actual electricity is actually (i.e truly) produced by artificial means. Ditto for magnetism, or nuclear energy.

True artificial gravity would be draw people towards the centre of the craft, rather than pushing them outwards (centrifugal force).


Your link :

However, the term artificial gravity usually refers to a sustained Normal force provided by a rigid
structure in uniform circular motion

The rotation drives any object inside the spacecraft toward the hull, thereby giving the appearance of
a gravitational pull directed outward. Often referred to as a centrifugal force, the "pull" is actually a
manifestation of the inertia of the objects inside the spacecraft


No one has ever, or will ever, produce 'gravity'. QED.


Addendum :

Do not merely regurgitate textbooks in order to pass exams, or for a pat on the head.

Face physical facts. And challenge received knowledge if it is false.

Or are you among them who are only rebels when it is time to challenge God?

Do you find yourself docile when it is time to challenge (errant) man?

why are you creating an argumentum ad lapidem??
I clearly showed you where to go to and you're creating a strawman and inducing an argumentum ad nauseam.
Ask me to prove that the speed of light is 3(10^ by my own measurments space tools etc
also ask me to prove that stars are not light bulbs in the sky...



Crap.

raphieMontella:

why the ad hominems bruh?

Bottomline..
Christianity cannot exist without predestination...

Sorry, bro: I can't help but Preach whenever I am led to do so. Its because you are significant part of Gods love.


Of course, Predestination (in the sense of salvation) through Foreknowledge is one of the cardinal foundations of sonship of God!

Because of Gods foreknowledge we were Predestined to be Sons.

Since the Predestination to be Sons of God is as a result of Foreknowledge, your present choices determine if you are Predestined (in this sense) or not.

The point is: Is it right to award a Nobel Price for Law n Literature to raphieMontella for the certainty that he will Solve the greatest paradox in legal history in the next 30 years?

Even if it was true, for it to make sense, we must wait for the next 30years when raphieMontella will actually solve this legal problem. Then raphieMontella can truly rejoice in his achievement and losers will keep their mouths shut.

raphieMontella:

why are you creating an argumentum ad lapidem??
I clearly showed you where to go to and you're creating a strawman and inducing an argumentum ad nauseam.
Ask me to prove that the speed of light is 3(10^ by my own measurments space tools etc
also ask me to prove that stars are not light bulbs in the sky...



Crap.

You know,

this reply, along with the argument it purports to refute,

should be moved to front page.

The unwary need fair warning on what passes for rational debate around these parts.

shadeyinka:


Who says anything about insecurity?
I guess you have misunderstood the purpose of God.

Let us assume you are the best computer scientist in the world with an ability to make robots with advance artificial intelligence.

You chose to make some robots with the best of your technology so that these robots will love you and you can relate with them as friends and not as slaves or zombies.

This your aim requires that you give them independence of will or else love and friendship doesn't make any sense.

So, you made these robots with consciousness and independent volition.

Since you need only the robots that will by there choice love you and choose to be your friend, you allow them to make their choices by the way they relate with you and with each other.

At the end, you select ONLY those who love you and will to be your friend.

Those robots who choose to hate you and other robots, you bind and throw into your refuse dump.

-In what way have you been egocentric?
-Do you have any right to do whatever you like with your robots?
-In what way have you shown insecurity in your actions?
-should you be sovereign over your robots or not?

Can you honestly answer these four questions?





LOL!
You are the inventor, designer and builder of Boeing 747. You know with certainty that some of your planes will crash and kill its passengers?

Will you go ahead and still create and build the Boeing 747?
Pls answer truthfully Why?

Now, let's assume you went ahead and built this plane because of is ultimate advantage to yourself and humanity AND a few years after, one Boeing 747 Plane crashed killing ALL 320 passengers on board and you went to the crash site.

Would you be happy and exclaim that the sacrifice is insignificant to the overall good to be derived from your plane OR
Will you be genuinely SAD, that these people had to die in your plane?

God regrets for making man is a figurative expression to describe the feeling of sadness even though you know that the events and happening are INEVITABLE!

Finally, it is Your choice to Roast in Hell if you want and God will NOT force you into Paradise against your will.

If hell has degrees of intensity of pain I am sure that some people have chosen from earth to be in the deepest part.

Do NOT joke with a law you don't understand.
Electrocution does not respect even Babies

My spirit tells me that you know the truth but you are following the crowd of those you consider as "intelligent folks"

It is not too late to turn back to Him. He is waiting!
Your exam is NOT yet over!

The depth of your shallowness is legendary. You omitted the fact that your God is believed to be omni knowest, he knows the end even before it begins. So, that makes him responsible for whatever evil we see in the world today. He knew it would come to this, he had the power to have done something different to have brought about a better result and save humanity from eternal damnation. But he chose to proceed with his plan, cos it's obviously what he wanted. Why then do you play blind to the fact that nothing ever happens without him being the ultimately designer of it, he first designed the system for the cause and effect to even take place. I'm just playing to your gallery to further buttress my point, else all these are just fairy tales for kids and weak minded.

joe4christ:


The depth of your shallowness is legendary. You omitted the fact that your God is believed to be omni knowest, he knows the end even before it begins. So, that makes him responsible for whatever evil we see in the world today. He knew it would come to this, he had the power to have done something different to have brought about a better result and save humanity from eternal damnation. But he chose to proceed with his plan, cos it's obviously what he wanted. Why then do you play blind to the fact that nothing ever happens without him being the ultimately designer of it, he first designed the system for the cause and effect to even take place. I'm just playing to your gallery to further buttress my point, else all these are just fairy tales for kids and weak minded.

Omni-knowest is not the same as Omni-causeth

Freewill implying minimal interference of God in the affairs of man. Your parent at a point do not decide how you make your room in their house!