orunto27:
God does the Prayer Himself for us. God instructs satan and directs it away from us. It's God's Responsibility and that we can not share with Him. We only Pray to God to get rid of the pestering ailments in our lives. If you're one whose Prayers are always answered by God, please be careful.

Lol

Here I was thinking the op was clever.. ...

God gave him alot of opportunity to return to heaven but he misused those opporunities. If he the devil is not ready to show remorse for his action, it is useless to beg on his behalf. A donkey will still remain a donkey no matter how hard you try to make it look like a horse

udatso:
Here I was thinking the op was clever.. ...

The op is rather dumb

Ahmadgani:
God gave him alot of opportunity to return to heaven but he misused those opporunities. If he the devil is not ready to show remorse for his action, it is useless to beg on his behalf. A donkey will still remain a donkey no matter how hard you try to make it look like a horse

But god does not need any reason to forgive since it's love is unconditional. So, forgiving a beef that has lasted billions of years shouldn't be that hard, right?

Besides, god created Satan with the capacity to sin.

So, isn't god directly responsible for Satan's sin in the first place?

hahn:


But god does not need any reason to forgive since it's love is unconditional. So, forgiving a beef that has lasted billions of years shouldn't be that hard, right?

Besides, god created Satan with the capacity to sin.

So, isn't god directly responsible for Satan's sin in the first place?

if your 12 year old son kill your wife, rape your 5 year old daughter and try to rape you through your an#s while you are asleep. What will you do? Remember he is still a minor he cannot make decisions on his own

Ahmadgani:
if your 12 year old son kill your wife, rape your 5 year old daughter and try to rape you through your an#s while you are asleep. What will you do? Remember he is still a minor he cannot make decisions on his own

I will hand him over to the authorities. That is if I do not kill him first.

But remember, I am a human being with feelings. And I do not claim to be all loving and all forgiving. Fvck with me and I will fvck with you.

You cannot use that analogy as a comparison with "God" because it is not supposed to have human weaknesses or traits such as jealousy, malice, vengeance. By doing so, you only prove that god is a product of man's imagination.

Besides, Satan didn't do any of these to god. Unless, this is just a product of your own sick fantasies. Bro, you need to get yourself checked

hahn:


I will hand him over to the authorities. That is if I do not kill him first.

But remember, I am a human being with feelings. And I do not claim to be all loving and all forgiving. Fvck with me and I will fvck with you.

You cannot use that analogy as a comparison with "God" because it is not supposed to have human weaknesses or traits such as jealousy, malice, vengeance. By doing so, you only prove that god is a product of man's imagination.

Besides, Satan didn't do any of these to god. Unless, this is just a product of your own sick fantasies. Bro, you need to get yourself checked

thanks, but I think you need that checking up more than I did, if you think that no one created you.

Of course you are human, and humans are weak but God is strong because he is not malicious neither is he vengeful but God is merciful, graceful and just. God is also jealous but only when you ascribe partner(s) to Him


those vices i came up with shows how humans have been disobeying God for long. Devil was the first to disobey God.

Ahmadgani:


thanks, but I think you need that checking up more than I did, if you think that no one created you.

Of course you are human, and humans are weak but God is strong because he is not malicious neither is he vengeful but God is merciful, graceful and just. God is also jealous but only when you ascribe partner(s) to Him


those vices i came up with shows how humans have been disobeying God for long. Devil was the first to disobey God.

Blah blah blah

It is better for me to live as if there is a God only to die and there is no God than for me to live as if there is no God only to find out at the end that there is a God, With this mindset I've lost nothing.

Peace be onto you.

In Islam, some deals are already closed. For example, a Muslim can't pray not to ever die because Allah has already told us that:


.......................................................




كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۖ فَمَنْ زُحْزِحَ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا إِلَّا مَتَاعُ الْغُرُورِ

Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception. (Q3 vs 185).

.........................................


the issue of Satan is a sealed deal because Allah says:


........................... ................

لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنْكَ وَمِمَّنْ تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ

"That I will certainly fill Hell with thee (Satan) and those that follow thee,- every one."



.............................................


I know not while Allah knows best.

ypeace:
Peace be onto you.

In Islam, some deals are already closed. For example, a Muslim can't pray not to ever die because Allah has already told us that:


.......................................................




كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَائِقَةُ الْمَوْتِ ۗ وَإِنَّمَا تُوَفَّوْنَ أُجُورَكُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۖ فَمَنْ زُحْزِحَ عَنِ النَّارِ وَأُدْخِلَ الْجَنَّةَ فَقَدْ فَازَ ۗ وَمَا الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا إِلَّا مَتَاعُ الْغُرُورِ

Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception. (Q3 vs 185).

.........................................


the issue of Satan is a sealed deal because Allah says:


........................... ................

لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنْكَ وَمِمَّنْ تَبِعَكَ مِنْهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ

"That I will certainly fill Hell with thee (Satan) and those that follow thee,- every one."



.............................................


I know not while Allah knows best.

But Allah is all forgiving, isn't it?

It is all loving, isn't it?

Then it does not need any reason to love or forgive Satan especially considering that all human, plant and animal suffering will be erased.

Is the fact that billions of people will not have to burn and suffer for eternity if Satan can be forgiven enough reason to do so?

If not, then it seems human suffering is Allah's will and thus Allah is most likely NOT all loving and all forgiving as we think it is.

Don't you think?

hahn:


But Allah is all forgiving, isn't it?

It is all loving, isn't it?


(1) Then it does not need any reason to love or forgive Satan especially considering that all human, plant and animal suffering will be erased.

(2) Is the fact that billions of people will not have to burn and suffer for eternity if Satan can be forgiven enough reason to do so?

If not, then it seems human suffering is Allah's will and thus Allah is most likely NOT all loving and all forgiving as we think it is.

Don't you think?

What are your references for 1 and 2.

Funny, how you set rules and want Allah to play by them.

ypeace:


What are your references for 1 and 2.

Funny, how you set rules and want Allah to play by them.

References?

Is Allah all loving or not? Is Allah all forgiving or not?

hahn:


References?

Is Allah all loving or not? Is Allah all forgiving or not?

You are using non Islamic definitions for Allah's love and forgiveness.

Allah does not love the transgressors for example.

(All forgiving) oft forgiven : no matter the magnitude of the sin, if the sinner repents (according to how Allah states it), the sin would be forgiven.


Understanding the Attributes of Allah is part of what is taught in Tawheed in Islam. the definition you gave to Gofuurun (oft forgiven) as all forgiven is wrong islamically.

ypeace:


You are using non Islamic definitions for Allah's love and forgiveness.

Allah does not love the transgressors for example.

(All forgiving) oft forgiven : no matter the magnitude of the sin, if the sinner repents (according to how Allah states it), the sin would be forgiven.


Understanding the Attributes of Allah is part of what is taught in Tawheed in Islam. the definition you gave to Gofuurun (oft forgiven) as all forgiven is wrong islamically.

Then that is a contradiction. That means it is not all loving

According to Islam, did Allah create sin/evil? If no, what is the source of sin?

hahn:


Then that is a contradiction. That means it is not all loving

According to Islam, did Allah create sin/evil? If no, what is the source of sin?

Your first statement, what's your Islam reference that Allah is all loving?

ypeace:


Your first statement, what's your Islam reference that Allah is all loving?

Honestly, it is an assumption.

I am not well versed in Quranic scriptures but I would expect an almighty god to be all loving since it created all things.

That is even why I asked,

According to Islam, did Allah create sin/evil? If no, what is the source of sin?

You did not supply an answer to this though

hahn:


Honestly, it is an assumption.

I am not well versed in Quranic scriptures but I would expect an almighty god to be all loving since it created all things.

That is even why I asked,



You did not supply an answer to this though

since Allah created everything, it equates that it MUST love everything? lol, creating the rules by which Allah works right.


I didn't answer the last one because I want to us finish the one we started.

ypeace:


since Allah created everything, it equates that it MUST love everything? lol, creating the rules by which Allah works right.


I didn't answer the last one because I want to us finish the one we started.

So, Allah creates everything but does not need to love them all. According to your logic, right?

hahn:


So, Allah creates everything but does not need to love them all. According to your logic, right?

Allah creates everything...... I agree with this.

Allah NEED to love everything he created: I do not have evidence for or against this.

hahn:


According to Islam, did Allah create sin/evil? If no, what is the source of sin?

The tense (create) used is wrong. Allah allowed us to sin. The reason why? Only He has the full knowledge of that.

I think you know it is Islamic that Human knowledge is limited?

ypeace:


The tense (create) used is wrong. Allah allowed us to sin. The reason why? Only He has the full knowledge of that.

Cool. So, he "allowed" us to sin. How did sin come about?

I think you know it is Islamic that Human knowledge is limited?

Actually, I am pretty ignorant about Islam but I am glad to know this about Islam's position on knowledge. I am not surprised in fact considering that Muslims were known to have made lots of achievements in astronomy and mathematics.

Allah creates everything...... I agree with this.

Then Allah creates sin too. Yes?

Allah NEED to love everything he created: I do not have evidence for or against this.

But why create something you know you will hate and even go on to punish people for indulging in the things you created which you hate?

hahn:


Cool. So, he "allowed" us to sin. How did sin come about?



Actually, I am pretty ignorant about Islam but I am glad to know this about Islam's position on knowledge. I am not surprised in fact considering that Muslims were known to have made lots of achievements in astronomy and mathematics.



Then Allah creates sin too. Yes?



But why create something you know you will hate and even go on to punish people for indulging in the things you created which you hate?

Islam is practised based on what is clear and with evidence. AND one of the thing that is clear is that man will never understand everything.

Your question will lead to paradox - hanging on assumptions that are not established in Islam.
........................

The question about sin assumes that sin is a creation not an action.

Your last question assumes that I can answer why God does something he didn't tell us why.

.........................

Sometimes paradox doesn't mean the two contrading things are wrong. They sometimes occur as a result of wrong assumptions or lack of complete knowledge. Eg, Two lights travelling at the speed of light will approach one another at the speed of light. This will be a paradox if you lack knowledge of the theory of relativity. Theory of relatively also causes some paradox in quantum physics (eg EPR theory).

Islam believe there is unseen and we do not have knowledge about the unseen except the one that has been revealed to us.

If you do not understand my point, perhaps, Allah will guide you to someone who will make it understandable to you.

ypeace:



Islam is practised based on what is clear and with evidence. AND one of the thing that is clear is that man will never understand everything.

Your question will lead to paradox - hanging on assumptions that are not established in Islam.
........................

The question about sin assumes that sin is a creation not an action.

Your last question assumes that I can answer why God does something he didn't tell us why.

.........................

Sometimes paradox doesn't mean the two contrading things are wrong. They sometimes occur as a result of wrong assumptions or lack of complete knowledge. Eg, Two lights travelling at the speed of light will approach one another at the speed of light. This will be a paradox if you lack knowledge of the theory of relativity. Theory of relatively also causes some paradox in quantum physics (eg EPR theory).

Islam believe there is unseen and we do not have knowledge about the unseen except the one that has been revealed to us.

If you do not understand my point, perhaps, Allah will guide you to someone who will make it understandable to you.

Do you have any proof that Allah exists?

I am asking this because there are 4,200 religions in the world and they all claim you are wrong and that Allah is not the true god

hahn:


Do you have any proof that Allah exists?

I am asking this because there are 4,200 religions in the world and they all claim you are wrong and that Allah is not the true god

The reason you gave for asking your question is not enough reason for me to answer you. My answer will be based on too many assumptions like: I will assume the 'claim'. I will assume you believe those claims.

It will be better if the premises is what you yourself understand and can stand to defend not what thousands of others claim.

ypeace:


The reason you gave for asking your question is not enough reason for me to answer you. My answer will be based on too many assumptions like: I will assume the 'claim'. I will assume you believe those claims.

It will be better if the premises is what you yourself understand and can stand to defend not what thousands of others claim.

I don't believe Allah exists because it has never been seen.

All those who believe in Allah only claim it exists.

What is your proof that it exists?

hahn:

I don't believe Allah exists because it has never been seen.
All those who believe in Allah only claim it exists.
What is your proof that it exists?

Sorry, I have to ask:
Are you an atheist or agnostic?

ypeace:


Sorry, I have to ask:

Are you an atheist or agnostic?

Responding a question with another question is rude.

You do not expect me to answer your question when you do not seem to have the courtesy to answer mine.

EOD

hahn:


Responding a question with another question is rude.

You do not expect me to answer your question when you do not seem to have the courtesy to answer mine.

EOD

Sorry, I did not mean to be rude. knowing who my audience (you) will allow me give a relevant reply.

ypeace:


Sorry, I did not mean to be rude. knowing who my audience (you) will allow me give a relevant reply.

You have not answered any of my questions. The best I have gotten from you are either questions or clever ways of avoiding the question.

Forget about it

The question should be is Satan willing to be forgiven?