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Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. - Christianity Etc (2) - Nairaland

Nairaland ForumNairaland GeneralChristianity EtcWhy Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. (7879 Views)

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Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 9:50am On Dec 18, 2016
Wilgrea7:
it's very logical for a creator to exist outside of time... God is not subject to the laws of physics.. he exists in different dimensions.. time as we know it had a beginning... he was there before that beginning... and if i may ask .... what do you call “time" ?
shirt!! .. I thought I mentioned with facts or evidence and not LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS??
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by hopefulLandlord: 9:50am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Rest. Since simple Yes or No is Harding you.
Rest. Since simple Yes or No is Harding you
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 9:51am On Dec 18, 2016
hopefulLandlord:
Rest.
Since simple Yes or No is Harding you
Echolalia.

Are u sure u dont need psycho stabilization?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:53am On Dec 18, 2016
benzics:
shirt!! .. I thought I mentioned with facts or evidence and not LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS??
Can you provide facts or evidence God does not exist undecided undecided
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by hopefulLandlord: 9:53am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Echolalia.
Are u sure u dont need psycho stabilization?
you're either asking a dumb question or you don't understand the meme
Are u sure u dont need psycho stabilization?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 9:55am On Dec 18, 2016
hopefulLandlord:
you're either asking a dumb question or you don't understand the meme

Are u sure u dont need psycho stabilization?
You posted a meme, not a question.
Decorum teaches to answer questions with statements, not question.

And u dont have to copy my vocab.
Be unique.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Wilgrea7(m): 9:56am On Dec 18, 2016
to the atheists who think proving that time doesn't exist will give them a point.... you're wrong.. according to a picture hopefullandlord shared that time is just an illusion, this doesn't disprove the existence of an all surpreme creator being existent outside of time but actually affirms it..

let's take it from the view of time being an illusion

if time is an illusion then all we have is now.. just an ever changing now.. yesterday would be a "now" that has passed and tomorrow will be a "now" that we look forward to.. so if we experience an ever changing now, then it means we live in eternity... and its further proof that we are mortal.. because as now changes, our body ages until it dies.. so if we do live in eternity, then it is further proof that an all supreme creator is immortal and has always existed throughout eternity and we on the other hand are mortals who started existing(were created) at a "now" which has passed and therefore will die.. because anything created at any particular ”now" will end but anything not subject to a beginning(God) at any particular "now" cannot be subject to an end at any particular now in the future.. so it only affirms that an all surpreme creator is immortal and without beginning or end because it is not bound by any particular ”now" either in the future or past

cc: benzics , hopefullandlord , etc
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:03am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Anybody that exists outside time, needs no creator to exist.
Unless you dont understand that.

Nowadays, everyone wants to become scientist by force becos of apetheism.

Mscheww
what do you mean?

Exist outside of time?

Or did you mean space-time?

Because time is just a measure of events
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by hopefulLandlord: 10:03am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
You posted a meme, not a question. Decorum teaches to answer questions with statements, not question.
And u dont have to copy my vocab. Be unique.
the answer to your question is right there in the meme
I'm copying you to show how dumb the question is
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Wilgrea7(m): 10:05am On Dec 18, 2016
benzics:
shirt!! .. I thought I mentioned with facts or evidence and not LOGICAL ASSUMPTIONS??
mr man sir! what kind of “evidence" are you still looking for?? what equipment has science invented that can measure or calculate eternity? what basis or method do you want me to use to prove that an all surpreme creator exists outside of time? i should use time and matter to measure or calculate something outside it?? its like saying you want to use nokia torch to carry out the functions of a super computer.. what other kind of evidence or fact do you need? on what kind of basis do you want me to do the experiment and present facts? if you can't answer then stop trying to use a cup to measure an ocean
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:06am On Dec 18, 2016
hopefulLandlord:
the answer to your question is right there in the meme

I'm copying you to show how dumb the question is
U copied me, because u dont have stuff.

Truth pays.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:10am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
what do you mean?

Exist outside of time?

Or did you mean space-time?

Because time is just a measure of events
Please define "universe"
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:12am On Dec 18, 2016
Wilgrea7:
it's very logical for a creator to exist outside of time... God is not subject to the laws of physics.. he exists in different dimensions.. time as we know it had a beginning... he was there before that beginning... and if i may ask .... what do you call “time" ?




i don't understand what you mean by “a god"... there is only one which exists out of time.. because he is the creator of everything and anything.. everything created is subject to laws.. God is the only uncreated being therefore he is not subject to laws.. cuz he created those laws.. the creator is not subject to the creation



cuz only an all supreme being can create all that we see in the universe today... randomness cannot form orderliness. nothing cannot form something... especially not in an orderly manner.. and yes... God does watch over his creation.. he is the very essence that gives life to every single thing in all the galaxies and even on earth.. he is that consciousness that radiates life to everything we know... so yes .. he watches everything.. if he didnt, that means he isn't radiating life and that would all mean that everything in the universe will cease to exist.. maybe you're trying to picture him as someone up in the sky watching everyone with a telescope or something.. no.. he is everywhere cuz his life force is all around us and all within us

my answers from a deistic view
1..randomness does create orderliness...
Too many times..

2)..your take on God watching everything,radiating life to everything...doesnt seem deistic...


3)time is just a frame of events...
If a creator lives outside of time do you mean no ''events'' occur ?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:13am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Please define "universe"
and here you just told someone about having decorum...ille est answering questions with statements..

But you're answering my questions with a question..

Ok oo
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:18am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
and here you just told someone about having decorum...ille est answering questions with statements..

But you're answering my questions with a question..

Ok oo
Ok, for equality sake

Let me answer ur question.
I meant time.

Now define universe for me.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Kondomatic(m): 10:18am On Dec 18, 2016
Lols......... You are not as intelligent as you want us to believe.


Thing is, the world is made of 2 people. The brainwasher and the brainwashed.

You and I belong the later.


how did you know that 'god' is that permanent something
Permit me to be foolish as you were while composing this post.


How do you know that what is known today as gravity is truly gravity? I haven't seen it, touched it or heard it.........

Because a brainwasher told you(the brainwashed) so.

You can't prove it and yet you believe it.........

if you want to prove the existence of God to us.. YOU SIMPLY SHOW US GOD!!!
Please show me gravity.

Now how did you get to the conclusion that " god always was ", when you've in fact never seen or heard from this god, you never even studied this god, you just " logically assumed " like my bro Deepsight
You also jump to premature conclusion too.

How are you so sure that we haven't heard from God?

Can you prove that too?



Fact is, the universe began to exist at a certain point in time.
Since we know that it’s impossible that the universe created itself, then it must have had a Creator.

Call that creator whatever you like, God, Energy etc. It doesn't matter to me.

When a Christian first presented the BigBang theory, you lots rejected it but many of you have accepted it today yet you claim to be the wisest people on earth.

Stop saying that God doesn't exist because you cannot prove, using logic, that something or someone that’s invisible doesn’t exist. That’s because it would require absolute knowledge and you lack it.........

And because I cannot provide your preferred evidence doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:21am On Dec 18, 2016
Kondomatic:
Lols......... You are not as intelligent as you want us to believe.


Thing is, the world is made of 2 people. The brainwasher and the brainwashed.

You and I belong the later.


Permit me to be foolish as you were while composing this post.


How do you know that what is known today as gravity is truly gravity? I haven't seen it, touched it or heard it.........

Because a brainwasher told you(the brainwashed) so.

You can't prove it and yet you believe it.........

Please show me gravity.

You also jump to premature conclusion too.

How are you so sure that we haven't heard from God?

Can you prove that too?



Fact is, the universe began to exist at a certain point in time.
Since we know that it’s impossible that the universe created itself, then it must have had a Creator.

Call that creator whatever you like, God, Energy etc. It doesn't matter to me.

When a Christian first presented the BigBang theory, you lots rejected it but many of you have accepted it today yet you claim to be the wisest people on earth.

Stop saying that God doesn't exist because you cannot prove, using logic, that something or someone that’s invisible doesn’t exist. That’s because it would require absolute knowledge and you lack it.........

And because I cannot provide your preferred evidence doesn't mean that he doesn't exist.
Gbam
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:33am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Ok, for equality sake
Let me answer ur question. I meant time.
Now define universe for me.
space-time..
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Richirich713: 10:34am On Dec 18, 2016
No 1 says everything needs a creator, that's just a strawman commonly used by atheists. In fact atheists are more likely to believe everything has a cause, since they would rather go with the infinite regress than the "everything came from nothing" option.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:36am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
space-time..
huh
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:38am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
huh
the totality of space-time oo
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:39am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
the totality of space-time oo
Ur definition is incomplete.
Ur wikipedia is not working today?
What happened?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Wilgrea7(m): 10:40am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
1..randomness does create orderliness...
Too many times..
example please...


2)..your take on God watching everything,radiating life to everything...doesnt seem deistic...
ok.. point taken.. I'm not a deist tho.. I'm a Christian.. but i agree with the deistic view sometimes


3)time is just a frame of events...
If a creator lives outside of time do you mean no ''events'' occur ?
yes, i can agree with you that time is a frame of events.. but how does a creator existing outside of time insist that time or the events never occur? i posted something about the time-frame of events stuff somewhere on this thread.. and it answered your third question..
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by MrMontella(m): 10:42am On Dec 18, 2016
felixomor:
Ur definition is incomplete. Ur wikipedia is not working today? What happened?
thats the definition of the universe mr man... The totality of space-time.
What is your own definition?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 10:43am On Dec 18, 2016
MrMontella:
thats the definition of the universe mr man...
The totality of space-time.

What is your own definition?
Bring ur Wikipedia na.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 11:05am On Dec 18, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:
Can you provide facts or evidence God does not exist undecided undecided
just because you can't disprove something do not mean that thing exists.. can you disprove with facts that the flying spaghetti monster exist? Does that mean it exists?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 11:18am On Dec 18, 2016
Wilgrea7:
so it only affirms that an all surpreme creator is immortal and without beginning or end because it is not bound by any particular ”now" either in the future or past

cc: benzics , hopefullandlord , etc
it all boils down to "Logic", why not evidence or facts? Do you know about Bigfoot? Do you know that there have been sightings of Bigfoot (more than the sighting of yahweh).. Does that mean that yes, since that looks like Bigfoot, BIGFOOT EXISTS, YAAAYYY!!!!
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tDw6p6aWYXQ/hqdefault.jpg

I know you might probably start thinking that the Bigfoot is a fact same way you think the creator of the universe is a fact.. . I thought you all said everything has a beginning? Even the Bible says "in the beginning", so why do you guys keep saying God always was? ?

And even the Bible said that in the beginning, god was wandering the world (where there is water).. So does it mean that there was water and before God? or god and water arrived same time? so who or what brought their arrival?
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 11:20am On Dec 18, 2016
Wilgrea7:
mr man sir! what kind of “evidence" are you still looking for?? what equipment has science invented that can measure or calculate eternity? what basis or method do you want me to use to prove that an all surpreme creator exists outside of time? i should use time and matter to measure or calculate something outside it?? its like saying you want to use nokia torch to carry out the functions of a super computer.. what other kind of evidence or fact do you need? on what kind of basis do you want me to do the experiment and present facts? if you can't answer then stop trying to use a cup to measure an ocean
Reply above ^^^
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 11:33am On Dec 18, 2016
Kondomatic:
Lols......... You are not as intelligent as you want us to believe.


Thing is, the world is made of 2 people. The brainwasher and the brainwashed.

You and I belong the later.


Permit me to be foolish as you were while composing this post.


How do you know that what is known today as gravity is truly gravity? I haven't seen it, touched it or heard it.........

Because a brainwasher told you(the brainwashed) so.

You can't prove it and yet you believe it.........

Please show me gravity.

.
People can be really foolish though grin

I should show you gravity? Stand up, then jump up, the force that brings you down is called gravity!!

Brainwashed? If we were told about gravity and we couldn't see it's effects, that's when one would think that gravity doesn't exist.

But what of God? All we hear and see are "assumed effects"
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by Kondomatic(m): 11:50am On Dec 18, 2016
benzics:
People can be really foolish though grin
I actually asked for your permission to be foolish as you were while composing the OP.........

benzics:
I should show you gravity? Stand up, then jump up, the force that brings you down is called gravity!!
How do you know that the force is gravity? Any evidence to prove that it actually a gravitational force that pulls me down?

If yes, prove it otherwise keep quiet.

By the way, go to church, see people tell you your past and present, watch miracles happen, see people fall under the anointing. That's the effects of God's presence.
benzics:
Brainwashed? If we were told about gravity and we couldn't see it's effects, that's when one would think that gravity doesn't exist.

But what of God? All we hear and see are "assumed effects"
How do you know that what you see is the effects of gravity?

You have never carried out any successful scientific research.

You have never discovered anything.

But you believe everything your scientists say.

There's no way to know if they're brainwashing you or not and yet you think you're smart.

Concentrate on getting the best out of your life bro and stop worrying religious people.

You are no better than them.

Another person may come up tomorrow and tell you that what you have been calling gravity is earthly pulla pulla and I sure you will believe it once you see evidence.
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by benzics(op): 12:02pm On Dec 18, 2016
Kondomatic:
I actually asked for your permission to be foolish as you were while composing the OP.........

How do you know that the force is gravity? Any evidence to prove that it actually a gravitational force that pulls me down?

If yes, prove it otherwise keep quiet.

By the way, go to church, see people tell you your past and present, watch miracles happen, see people fall under the anointing. That's the effects of God's presence.
How do you know that what you see is the effects of gravity?

You have never carried out any successful scientific research.

You have never discovered anything.

But you believe everything your scientists say.

There's no way to know if they're brainwashing you or not and yet you think you're smart.

Concentrate on getting the best out of your life bro and stop worrying religious people.

You are no better than them.

Another person may come up tomorrow and tell you that what you have been calling gravity is earthly pulla pulla and I sure you will believe it once you see evidence.
Chai.. lwkmd grin grin
Gravity is just a nomenclature, a name given to that force that pulls you down... But THERE IS A FORCE THAT PULLS YOU Down, it can be called anything! Whether earthly pulla pula grin but as far as we are referring to that earthly pull!!!

People fall under anointing or hypnosis?? I was once part of that crowd that fell when the pastor prayed, and I can confirm that I wasn't moved by "sh-it", I just fell to feel that "Yes, the holy spirit is working", but there was actually no force behind that..

Miracles? Lol, do you know anybody that had physical defects (blind, deaf, dumb) but once prayed to, became fine?? Not strangers o, but people you know and have witnessed them being healed? Why can't the so called god heal amputees since he is all powerful, well, because miracle itself is a trick just like magic!!

And I don't believe everything a scientist say just like you believe everything your bible says..
Re: Why Theists And Deists Can't Tell Us "God Wasn't Created".. by felixomor: 12:04pm On Dec 18, 2016
Kondomatic:
I actually asked for your permission to be foolish as you were while composing the OP.........

How do you know that the force is gravity? Any evidence to prove that it actually a gravitational force that pulls me down?

If yes, prove it otherwise keep quiet.

By the way, go to church, see people tell you your past and present, watch miracles happen, see people fall under the anointing. That's the effects of God's presence.
How do you know that what you see is the effects of gravity?

You have never carried out any successful scientific research.

You have never discovered anything.

But you believe everything your scientists say.

There's no way to know if they're brainwashing you or not and yet you think you're smart.

Concentrate on getting the best out of your life bro and stop worrying religious people.

You are no better than them.

Another person may come up tomorrow and tell you that what you have been calling gravity is earthly pulla pulla and I sure you will believe it once you see evidence.
Lollz @
"Pulla pulla"

grin
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