₦airaland Forum

Immorttal:
ok i laugh in yoruba

but on the other note, God's shildren is isrealites thus it can be said that yahweh coerced them to sacrifise their first born sons to him, have you forgotten that yahweh love the smell of burnt flesh

walls01:
you are right in most of your arguments, but the fact remain that God acted so for a reason.
God wanted to punish the Israelites because they have disobeyed him. disobedience is the weakest part of God and it always lead to punishment from him

walls01:
you are correct, God had warn man not to swear an oat unto His name that whoever mentioned his name in an oat must fulfil it. he was so happy and swore to offer whatever met with him as burnt offering, which happen to be his daughter. because God name was mentioned then he must fulfil it. he regretted afterwards that is why it is always better to obey God command at all times

matrix600:
so in the end he made them offer 'by fire' their first born so he might horrify them, and let them know that he is the lord.

Is that the summary?

walls01:
you are right in most of your arguments, but the fact remain that God acted so for a reason.
God wanted to punish the Israelites because they have disobeyed him. disobedience is the weakest part of God and it always lead to punishment from him

plessis:
Millions of Nigerians are celebrating the death of Jesus, a criminal that was hanged for sedition and treason....


If only we can channel this energy to more productive things....


Will Africa ever be free?

jfolorun:
What do you mean? Sorry need some clarity.

matrix600:
I mean that that is the summary of the argument between you and immorttal

jfolorun:
Why is it important to you?

matrix600:
because I was following the argument.

jfolorun:
I wasn't into any argument with anyone. Don't know what you are talking about.

matrix600:
Whoever told you that killing is punishment, killing is annihilation, terminating the existence of someone else. If a man kills his child for disobedience, do you say that the man has punished the child?

What kind of father slaughters his children for any reason

walls01:
but God is different from man. you know as a judge he has to pass out sentences according to the law least no body will take the law serious

Immorttal:
it is called an arguement son

plessis:
Millions of Nigerians are celebrating the death of Jesus, a criminal that was hanged for sedition and treason....


If only we can channel this energy to more productive things....


Will Africa ever be free?

jfolorun:
No need to tell him that he needs to see a Physician because he will disagree with you. A sick person can only be healed if he knows and is convinced that he is sick. Don't waste your energy on him, he doesn't deserve it. He is a slave, doing the bidding of his master- Lucifer (the father of lies).

jfolorun:
That not how arguments are constructed boy. Again, Christians have nothing to gain by arguments or defending their beliefs. And most of arguments on Nairaland end up with insults.

In philosophy and logic, an argument is a series of statements typically used to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion. Wikipedia

matrix600:
If that is so, does that mean Jephthah's daughter was an animal? How did his daughter come into the story then, why did the Israeli women grieve for her for a year?

Why was Jephthah's heart broken upon seeing his daughter if he was going to sacrifice an animal?

Which animal did he eventually sacrifice, and the biblical back up for that.

plessis:
Millions of Nigerians are celebrating the death of Jesus, a criminal that was hanged for sedition and treason....


If only we can channel this energy to more productive things....


Will Africa ever be free?

BetaThings:
You cannot prove this - so it is just unfounded accusation
lol really dude?

you should be able to point out what is illogical. It would be illogical for me to accept your dismissal of something you perhaps have not read

A perfect copy of the Quran exists in Heaven
Let us now consider if the Quran could be a perfect copy of the original which is kept in Heaven and carved into stone tablets.
Muslims quote Sura 85:21-22 to justify this claim.

085.021 Nay, this is a Glorious Qur'an,
085.022 (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved!

When Mohammed died in 632AD, he had committed nothing to hard copy and it was left to his reciters to compile his revelations.

The principal reciters were Abdullah ibn Mas’ud, Abu Musa and Ubayy ibn Ka’b.

When many reciters were killed in the battle of Yamama, this prompted the caliph Abu Bakr to compile a complete collection. He subsequently commissioned Mohammed’s secretary, a young man called Zaid ibn Thabit to the task.

Zaid found this task difficult but eventually produced a codex which was given to Hafsah, one of Mohammed’s wives who was also a daughter of Umar.

The third caliph Uthman chose Zaid’s collection rather than that of Mas’ud who was Mohammed’s preferred reciter.

It was noted that there were differences between all four codices, but Uthman ordered all but Zaid’s to be destroyed.

And even after Uthman died, the Quran was further modified by al Hajjaj, the governor of Kufa.

Also according to Sahih Muslim there were missing verses, including the one on stoning.

From ibn Ishaq’s version (page 684):-

Your arguments are not specific. So it is difficult to see what you find funny


Tell me how Amhamdiyya and Shiaism evolved from Sunni doctrines


Let us have the facts and your proof


Islam was not embraced just because somebody was articulate and charismattic


We recognise only the prophets before Mohammed (SAW) because he is the seal of the prophets - no one after him
We can have impostors and their bonafides are being successfully disproved


You don't need intermediary to link you with Allah
He does not have a child


We are rooted in reality, ma'am
Tell us the flight of fancy we are upon


I would like to show you is the one in error of you point to the inaccuracies

Phi001:
How does the bolded even relate?Besides, they grieved for her virginity not death...

She was his only child, go figure.

In the original jewish texts, the hebrew word 'i' meant either or/and...so that verse could have been interpreted as he would either consecrate or sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house...

BetaThings:
You cannot prove this - so it is just unfounded accusation


you should be able to point out what is illogical. It would be illogical for me to accept your dismissal of something you perhaps have not read

There are many examples that can be put on the table, but it is important to remember that it requires only ONE example to dispel the myth that the Quran is the perfect word of God. The errors have been sorted into categories, such as historical

Mary, the sister of Aaron;
S19.28 claims that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is actually also the sister of Aaron, yet it was Miriam who was Aaron’s sister, and Aaron and Miriam lived 1,500 years before Mary.

019.028 "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"

Pharaoh and the drowning;
History and the Bible suggest that Pharaoh was drowned in his chase of Moses, and this is reflected in S17.102-103. However, in S10.90-92, Allah claims to have saved Pharaoh as an example. BOTH cant be true. One is a LIE.

Your arguments are not specific. So it is difficult to see what you find funny
In Sura 20.85-87 and again in Sura 20.95-97, the Quran states that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was moulded by a Samaritan.
Yet the term “Samaritan” was not coined until 722BC.

Sunset
In Sura 18.86, the sun sets in a muddy spring.

018.086 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness.

Mountains as pegs
Suras 16:15 and many others state that mountains were used as pegs to stabilize the Earth. A study of geology certainly refutes this claim!

Tell me how Amhamdiyya and Shiaism evolved from Sunni doctrines


Let us have the facts and your proof


Islam was not embraced just because somebody was articulate and charismattic


We recognise only the prophets before Mohammed (SAW) because he is the seal of the prophets - no one after him
We can have impostors and their bonafides are being successfully disproved


You don't need intermediary to link you with Allah
He does not have a child


We are rooted in reality, ma'am
Tell us the flight of fancy we are upon


I would like to show you is the one in error of you point to the inaccuracies

matrix600:
and how does consecration or sacrifice translate as 'burnt offering'?

How can a multitude of women grieve for one woman's virginity? What sense does that make..

When Samuel was offered to the service of God, was he offered as a burnt offering?

It's clear that Jephthah's daughter was offered as a 'burnt offering' to God, and here you are saying otherwise.

Are you insinuating that the Bible translators could not tell the difference between a living sacrifice and a burnt offering?

neocortex:
The gurads didn't lie, they stated what happened which is that
the zealot follower of jesus took the body away. It is more likely
that the disciples will bribe the guards than the chief priest bribing them
because they have more to lose if the body remained in the tomb.

BetaThings:
You cannot prove this - so it is just unfounded accusation
really, i right more story, you right yours years later, similar to mine with slight changes in the way the names are pronounced, and you are not alienated from my work by location, who will win in court?

you should be able to point out what is illogical. It would be illogical for me to accept your dismissal of something you perhaps have not read
In Sura 41:9-12 Allah claims to have made our planet Earth first and after that the sun and other stars. This is clearly untrue as we know the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old and the Universe about 13.7 billion;
Sura 78:6-7 declares that Allah put mountains on Earth to stabilize it and stop it from shaking, but mountains are the result of instability as tectonic plates collide or volcanoes erupt;
In Sura 28:9 we are told that Pharaoh’s wife discovered Moses in the river yet clearly from history it was the daughter of Pharaoh who took Moses from the river;
Confusing geneology, Sura 19:28 claims Mary the mother of Jesus was the sister of Aaron and Sura 3:35 claims Mary’s mother was married to Imran, the father of Aaron. Moses and Aaron lived about 1400 years before Mary and so Sura 19:28 is absurd;
Sura 5:116 suggests that Christians worship Mary as one part of the Holy Trinity, however there is nothing in the canon of Christian literature which places Mary in the Trinity;
Meanwhile Sura 21:51-71 presents a Jewish fable from the second century based on a transcription error made by a Hebrew scribe Jonathan Ben Uziel, He wrote the word “or” meaning fire instead of “ur” the place where Abraham came from. Hence the story had Abraham coming out of a fire;
In a classic case of rewriting history, Sura 37:99-113 relates the story of how God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son to test his loyalty to God. Unlike the Genesis account in chapters 21-22 where Abraham sends Hagar and Ishmael away after Isaac is born, the Quran claims that Isaac was only born after Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son Ishmael. This rewriting is an attempt to lift up Ishmael above Isaac in importance.


Your arguments are not specific. So it is difficult to see what you find funny


Tell me how Amhamdiyya and Shiaism evolved from Sunni doctrines
Ahmadiyya originated with the life and teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835–1908), who claimed to have appeared in fulfilment of the prophecies concerning the world's reformer during the end times, who was to bring about, by peaceful means, the final triumph of Islam and herald the eschaton as predicted in Islamic scriptures as well as the traditions of various world religions. He claimed to have been divinely appointed as the Mujaddid (renewer) of Islam, the promised Messiah and Mahdi awaited by Muslims. The adherents of the Ahmadiyya movement are referred to as Ahmadi Muslims or simply Ahmadis.


Ahmadi thought emphasizes the belief that Islam is the final dispensation for humanity as revealed to Muhammad and the necessity of restoring to it its true essence and pristine form, which had been lost through the centuries. Ahmadiyya adherents believe that Ahmad appeared in the likeness of Jesus, to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and reinstitute morality, justice, and peace. They believe that upon divine guidance he divested Islam of fanatical and innovative beliefs and practices by championing what is, in their view, Islam’s true and essential teachings as practised by Muhammad and the early Islamic community. Thus, Ahmadis view themselves as leading the revival and peaceful propagation of Islam
Shia Muslims also feel animosity towards some of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad, based on their positions and actions during the early years of discord about leadership in the community. Many of these companions (Abu Bakr, Umar ibn Al Khattab, Aisha, etc.) have narrated traditions about the Prophet's life and spiritual practice. Shia Muslims reject these traditions (hadith) and do not base any of their religious practices on the testimony of these individuals. This naturally gives rise to some differences in religious practice between the two groups. These differences touch all detailed aspects of religious life: prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, and more.


Let us have the facts and your proof


Islam was not embraced just because somebody was articulate and charismattic


We recognise only the prophets before Mohammed (SAW) because he is the seal of the prophets - no one after him
We can have impostors and their bonafides are being successfully disproved
Ahmadi was one after him dude no matter how had you muslims try to deny that


You don't need intermediary to link you with Allah
He does not have a child
prove it

We are rooted in reality, ma'am
Tell us the flight of fancy we are upon


I would like to show you is the one in error of you point to the inaccuracies

matrix600:
You mean to tell me that he couldn't find a better way to deal with disobedient children?

Does it have to involve death?

MaziOmenuko:
Yet no one outside the Christian faith can actually testify seeing him? You actually believed that the entire world wouldn't contain books written about his acts which was just less than a week after he supposedly resurreted yet his works for his entire 33 yrs b4 dealth was contained in just 4 books of mat mark Luke and John?

plessis:
you're not okay at all.... It's clearly stated in the Bible that Jesus was killed for blasphemy and treason.... Two choices, argue against it or ignore the post....

But no, you decided to prophecy into my life because you're logically inept...


Take your emptiness elsewhere... I have no cure for it...

Elliot2:
So,are u also accusing Jesus on those lines? do u accept that Jesus committed treason and deserved the punishment? Cos,it is an established fact that the manner in which Jesus trial took was in contrast to a fair one even in the standards of the time. if u were observant, u would know that Jesus was not sentenced based on any conviction of crime, but merely on the ground of entertaining a crowd which chose a confirmed thief in the person of barnabas over Jesus for release.

Phi001:
He would consecrate the first thing or sacrifice it...


It was just her friends that went with her...


I fail to see your point here...


I'm afraid it's not...


living sacrifice or burnt offering...

matrix600:
re-read your Bible, it clearly stated 'burnt offering', what are we arguing here.