Henry240:


Definitely the next transport aircraft for the NAF.

.....But 52, even in our dreams, we don't hope to get such numbers, not to talk of reality. People would call you a mad man if you even say or post such figures in public.

actual requirement is 160

but when the tender was released it was 56, so the no of aircrafts was not changed because it would have resulted in re tendering, another 5 years or so wait.

i think i will do a write up on electronic warfare later on,

too much hulla bulla going on based on propaganda from either side

nemesis2u:
i think i will do a write up on electronic warfare later on,

too much hulla bulla going on based on propaganda from either side

Before that, let's see your comparison, an SU-35, Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon. Which is the better all round fighter in your opinion.

Henry240:


Before that, let's see your comparison, an SU-35, Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon. Which is the better all round fighter in your opinion.

on one condition ,

dont judge/blame it on perceived nationality / unconfirmed nationality of the much misunderstood poster

SU 35 is optimized as a air superiority fighter ,
it is a heavy weight category aircraft
its USP is its super-manoeuvrability , its low speed handling capability gives it a edge in dog fighting .
it excels in energy-fight, as it bleeds less energy in extreme maneuvers , allowing it to go for faster instantaneous and sustained turn rates and with smaller turn radius.it is like a 'falcon' swooping down on its prey from high altitudes and at high speeds. the kinematic advantage is on its side.


Rafale is optimized as a swing role aircraft ,
it is a medium weight category aircraft ,
Rafale has a significantly superior load-carrying capability and it has excellent manoeuvrability at low speeds at low altitudes with high-loads. excellent for interdiction role.


Typhoon is air superiority fighter but marketed as a swing role aircraft, but IMO best optimized for interception role ,
it is a medium weight category aircraft ,
Typhoon has high thrust-to-weight ratio which gives it excellent acceleration at all altitudes. especially allows it to come 'high and fast' for interception and in CAP role.


IMO there can never be any true multi role aircraft , unless u want to believe the marketing guys of the respective manufacturers. what u can have is a balance of sorts with significant penalties in capabilities

a fight aircraft will always be constrained by its aerodynamics , engine thrust ,wing aerofoil etc which will push it undoubtedly towards a specific role , it may be capable of other roles but will always fall short of those desired full spectrum capabilities.

so as far as i am concerned these 3 cannot be compared on the basis of their role.

what u can compare or try to compare is their sub systems like radars, engines, networking capabilities, sensors, weapons load etc becz they r isolated systems parse not dynamically affected by the aircraft parameters / role etc (some effect is there but u can neglect it for all the aircraft's in question for the sake of comparison)

Nemesis2u, I anticipated that. That's why i said in your own opinion.


Dude, we know you're Indian, nothing wrong with that.

Please go on.

So, you're saying as an air superiority fighter, the SU-35 is best?

The Rafale takes it in the interdiction role.

The Typhoon, although a brilliant fighter it is not quite as good as the SU-35 in the air superiority role?

Air Interdiction is also Strike, so how does the SU-34 stack up against the Rafale in that role?

The MIG-35 as against the 3 aforementioned fighter aircrafts, where is the MIG-35? How does it compete or is it just a point defence, jack of all trades, master of none?

Henry240:
Nemesis2u, I anticipated that. That's why i said in your own opinion.


Dude, we know you're Indian, nothing wrong with that.

Please go on.

u all r a sad bunch of Sherlock Holmes wannabes

i gave the answer

but let me summarize

if i was a king, and looking to conquer all the neighboring kingdoms , i would buy

300 SU 35
300 Rafales
300 Typhoons

then my air force would become a true multi role air force

dont fall prey to the marketing narrative / propaganda
try to think logically

Henry240:
So, you're saying as an air superiority fighter, the SU-35 is best?

i said it is optimized as a air superiority fighter , meaning the aircraft will give near to 100% performance, in its intended role as a air superiority fighter.

best / poor r relative terms which have no relevance in judging true performance parse, as it will always be biased.

Henry240:


The Typhoon, although a brilliant fighter it is not quite as good as the SU-35 in the air superiority role?

weather Typhoon is as good or better than SU35 will be decided by the pilot skills and the tactics

IMO Typhoon is below SU35 in air superiority role.

kinematic performance and slow speed handling is better for SU35.

however in sensors Typhoon scores better, but SU35 sensors r no slouch either .

the Typhoon definitely scores over the SU35 in its A to G capabilities

in the end these 2 cannot be compared as they belong to 2 different categories

Henry240:


Air Interdiction is also Strike, so how does the SU-34 stack up against the Rafale in that role?

Air Interdiction is Strike.

Rafale scores better , the SU 34 will not able to match Rafale in low altitude performance and capability. terrain hugging flight capability with high loads and relevant sensors is a must for strike aircraft's .

Henry240:

The MIG-35 as against the 3 aforementioned fighter aircrafts, where is the MIG-35? How does it compete or is it just a point defence, jack of all trades, master of none?

MIG 35 is nothing but improved MIG 29 , it is optimized as an interceptor same as MIG 29.

FIRST THE BASICS

The basic idea of ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW) is to exploit the enemy's electromagnetic emissions in all parts of the electromagnetic spectrum in order to provide intelligence on the enemy's order of battle, intentions and capabilities and to use countermeasures to deny effective use of communications and weapons systems while protecting one's own effective use of the same spectrum.

ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW) can be classified into 3 basic types


1.Electronic Support Measures (ESM)

Electronic Support Measure is that division of electronic warfare which involves actions taken to search for , intercept, locate, record and analyse radiated electromagnetic energy, for the purpose of exploiting such radiations to support military operations. Thus, ESM is an important source of EW information to carry out electronic countermeasures and electronic, counter- countermeasures. ESM involves, in general, gathering of EW information through Electronic Intelligence (ELINT), Communications Intelligence (COMINT) and ESM receivers.

2.Electronic Counter Measures (ECM)

Electronic Countermeasures are the actions taken to prevent or reduce the enemy's effective use of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Two major actions of ECM are jamming and deception.

I. Jamming

The deliberate radiation, re-radiation, or reflection of electromagnetic energy to impair the use of electronic devices, equipment's or systems is called Jamming

II. Deception

The deliberate radiation, re-radiation, alteration, absorption, or reflection of electromagnetic energy in a manner intended to mislead the enemy in the interpretation or use of information received by his electronic systems is called deception. It is of 2 types.

a. Manipulative

The alteration or simulation of friendly electromagnetic radiations to accomplish deception.

b. Imitative

Introducing radiation into enemy channels which imitates his own emission.

2.Electronic Counter Counter Measures (ECCM)

The actions taken to ensure friendly, effective, use of the electromagnetic spectrum despite the enemy's use of EW are known as ECCM.

ACTIVE / PASSIVE ROLES

The field of EW is discussed in terms of active and passive roles.

Passive EW is the search for and analysis of electromagnetic radiation to determine the existence, source and pertinent characteristics of the enemy's use of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Active EW is the radiation or re-radiation of electromagnetic energy so as to impair the enemy's use of electronic equipment/system, or to mislead the enemy in the interpretation of data received from his electronic systems/devices.

ESM (Passive) and includes

1.ELINT
2.COMINT
3.DETECTION
4.DIRECTION FINDING
5.ANALYSIS
6.IDENTIFICATION
7.INTELLIGENCE

ECM (Active) and includes

1.DECEPTION (Active)
2.JAMMING (Active)
3.CHEMICAL (Passive)
4.MECHANICAL (Passive)

ECCM (Active / Passive) and includes

1.Anti-Passive
2.Anti-Active

SOME FACTS ABOUT EW

1.EW is a dynamic and closely inter-related interaction between ESM, ECM and ECCM and the Order of Battle. It is active as well as passive depending upon the nature of threat.

eg. ESM may involve active radiation of a signal to determine the characteristics of the enemy equipment/system and ECM may require a passive reception of the enemy signals in order to decide what signal to counter. There is always an interaction between friendly and hostile electronic systems in an EW environment. ECM and ECCM are electronic equivalents of action and reaction of Newton's third law of motion. In combat-like situation, friendly forces always try to counter the enemy's electronic systems through ECM. This ECM, in turn, causes a rival ECCM to reduce the effectiveness of friendly systems/equipment, and this process continues ad infinitum. There is always an ECCM for an ECM. One can never achieve unequivocal superiority through ECM only.

2.The features or characteristics of EW systems are determined when the features or nature of enemy electronic systems have been known or anticipated accurately.

3.The effectiveness of EW systems is established only when the enemy electronic systems are present, i.e., when the combat environment is either real or simulated accurately.

4.In EW no countermeasure is effective for ever. It is time-sensitive and time-perishable.

5.In EW countermeasures are more effective when used in a 'surprise' mode.

6.ESM is for 'tactical' purposes that requires immediate actions.

7.ELINT is intelligence derived about the hostile emitter.

8.COMINT is intelligence derived from the hostile emitter.

9.To make ESM systems ineffective, a military force generally practices emission control (EMCON), which restricts emission of electromagnetic radiations until it knows that it has been detected.

10.EW is basically radar based and communication based .

chew on these 2 posts and will post later the remaining parts

SMH

out side foreign/science section its really .............

nemesis2u:
SMH
out side foreign/science section its really .............

The insanity around this days...

Odunayaw:
The insanity around this days...

some posters here have a unusual sick fetish for all kinds of diseases/deformities . they gain what, making fun / derogatory statements against the unfortunate persons god only knows.

last 1 hour i was going through all these shit , what stuck me importantly was when 1 poster makes a sensible post/reply to a stupid post, 20 other useless posters shuts him down / drives him off.

this is not a good sign.

i dont think i will ever go out of the foreign/science section again. i used to follow some of u guys to see what u do here , but i will not dare do it again. compared to some of the ignorants out there , the guys here r angels.

nemesis2u:


.

i dont think i will ever go out of the foreign/science section again. i used to follow some of u guys to see what u do here , but i will not dare do it again. compared to some of the ignorants out there , the guys here r angels.

As the 11th commandment
Thou shalt only visit Romance section after Foreign/science section

Truly angels bruh..Not perfect,but the best we've got

ESM

Electronic Support Measures (ESM) is that division of EW that involves actions taken to search for, intercept, locate, and immediately identify sources of enemy electromagnetic radiations for the purposes of immediate threat recognition and for tactical employment of military forces or assets, such as ECM equipment.

The key functions of ESM are
1.intercepting (which primarily involves detection, frequency estimation and direction finding)
2.identifying
3.analyzing
4.locating sources of hostile radiations.

ESM is basically a 'tactically' oriented activity, whereas SIGINT is basically a 'strategically' oriented activity and has Electronic Intelligence (ELINT), Communications Intelligence (COMINT) and Radiation Intelligence (RINT) as its constituent parts.

So, the ESM function is reserved for real-time reaction which serves to differentiate between ESM receivers and ELINT or COMINT receivers, which collect intelligence data for subsequent or non-real-time analysis.

SIGINT data generally focuses on producing intelligence of an analytical nature which is not as time critical as ESM data. commanders of military forces are generally interested in SIGINT data. SIGINT is thus closely allied to ESM.

The primary objective of an ESM system is to intercept the enemy electronic systems in a tactical, i.e., real-time environment. Interception of hostile electronic environment is generally attempted to achieve three basic functions-detection, frequency estimation and direction finding.

These 3 elements of interception are usually integrated in a practical system.

1.Detection is achieved by using radiometer , channelised radiometer or the cross correlator
2.Frequency estimation is achieved by using ESM receivers.
3.Direction-finding is achieved by using special DF antennas, which provide measure of angle of arrival (AOA) of emitter pulses.

The principal job of an ESM receiver is to provide information on the existence and nature of various signals usually in the minimum possible time. An intercept system (i.e., ESM receiver) can answer one or more of the following questions:

1. Are there any signals present?
2. What are the electrical characteristics of and directional bearing to those signals present?
3. Is there a particular signal present having certain prescribed characteristics?
4. Is there a signal present which is tracking the location of the intercept receiver?
5. Is there any new signal added in the general signal environment?
6. Is there an unusual signal present?
7. Is there a signal present that shows the characteristics of motion of a target?
8. Are there CW signals, FM signals, single sideband (SSB) signals?

etc

The list is almost endless. No single ESM receiver will answer all such questions. However, the aim of an ESM system remains the same, i.e., to provide a source of information for immediate reaction involving ECM, ECCM, avoidance, and targeting.

examples of ESM systems are

1.Radar Warning Receivers

a radar warning receiver (RWR) intercepts radar signals and analyses their relative threat in real-time. To accomplish this analysis, the RWR must have a threat library representing the enemy's electronic order of battle (EOB, a document describing where and when specific enemy electronic systems are being or will be used in a given battle situation) stored in its microprocessor. The EOB is obtained through ELINT or electronic reconnaissance, which collects and records for subsequent analysis as much data as possible on enemy non-communication equipment.

Radar warning receiver is generally the simplest form of ESM receiver consisting of an unsophisticated low-sensitivity equipment. The complexity of modern ESM receivers is increasing to cope with the continually expanding dense signal environment. Thus, ESM reconnaissance or surveillance receivers are generally considered more complex than RWRs, and they are used to map enemy radar and communications installations and to monitor radio messages. The more elaborate radar surveillance ESM receivers are similar in concept to RWRs, except that they generallv employ more sensitive receivers to intercept radar radiations at long ranges, have a higher direction-finding accuracy, and measure additional radar parameters, such as coherency , polarisation, traffic analysis, pulse rise and fall times, intra-pulse modulation, and statistical characterisation of features (like frequency, scan modulations, etc.).

2.Advanced DM Receivers

It is difficult for the simple radar warning receivers to cope , with dense signal environment. Their probability of intercept (i.e., performance) deteriorates, particularly when many emitters are present in the dense environment. It needs filtering or sorting of emissions in order to classify each signal to know the important parameters like the amplitude, pulse width, frequency, angle of arrival, coherency ,polarisation, pulse train characteristics, etc. of the radar. Many advanced ESM receivers have been developed on the basis of various design approaches. These ESM receivers have excellent multiple signal handling capability in a dense emitter environment. Each receiving system has its own relative advantages and disadvantages for a specific application as shown by some of the examples below

I.Superheterodyne receivers : They have the advantages of high selectivity, proven design and not being susceptible to jamming; but suffer from their limitations of coping with agile signals, slow search speed, low frequency resolution and needing multiple receivers for direction-finding operations.
II.Surface acoustic wave (SAW) receivers : They have the advantages of high probability of detection, good sensitivity, minimum pulse width, handling frequency agile signals, having good high-dynamic range (i.e., an indicator of the signal variations that the system can accept, and reproduce, without objectionable distortion), handling multiple signals, doing monopulse DF with a single receiver and being hard to jam. The limitations of the receivers are that they take moderate time to resolve pulses that are close together
III.Acousto-optic Bragg cell receivers : They have the advantages of high probability of detection, high selectivity and high sensitivity. However, they cannot handle frequency agile signals, measure pulse width, require channelisers, are slow in searching, and require two receivers to do monopulse DF.
IV.Microscan receiver : They have the advantages of high probability of detection and the ability to handle wideband signals and frequency agile signals; but suffer from their limitations of requiring a channeliser , minimum pulse width that cannot go much below 0.1 microsecond, and again requiring multiple receivers for DF and a very wide IF bandwidth.
V.Channelized receivers : They have the advantages of high selectivity, high probability of detection, and not being susceptible to jamming. However, they suffer from their limitations of limited frequency accuracy, limited resolution, and their requirement of a channeliser. In general, they cannot do monopulse DF in a size- and cost-effective manner.

etc

it should be noted that there is hardly any single ECM receiver which can be employed for all purposes. In practice, either a hybrid approach or a combination of two or three receivers is used to exploit their relative advantages to handle effectively the dense and demanding signal environment.

Odunayaw:
As the 11th commandment
Thou shalt only visit Romance section after Foreign/science section

Truly angels bruh..Not perfect,but the best we've got

the hell i will

earlier the posts i went through contained 3 / 4 posts from the romance section , it made me sick.

i guess i will have to call for occasional tributes from u guys

or ur generosity

photos now and then will do the job

nemesis2u:


the hell i will

earlier the posts i went through contained 3 / 4 posts from the romance section , it made me sick.

i guess i will have to call for occasional tributes from u guys

or ur generosity

photos now and then will do the job

why do i have a feeling that only kikuyu1 and tdayof will go through the above 3 posts ,

while the others will wait for

the Khibiny to ziip the zaap out of trump
or
the mald to sizzzzle the fizz out of putin


i wish i could hold a exam for u guys on EW based on what i posted till now

i am sure everybody would wholeheartedly participate

in order to remove any cause of confusion
by photos i meant
photos of ladies

nemesis2u:
FIRST THE BASICS

The basic idea of ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW) is to exploit the enemy's electromagnetic emissions in all parts of the electromagnetic spectrum in order to provide intelligence on the enemy's order of battle, intentions and capabilities and to use countermeasures to deny effective use of communications and weapons systems while protecting one's own effective use of the same spectrum.

ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW) can be classified into 3 basic types


1.Electronic Support Measures (ESM)

Electronic Support Measure is that division of electronic warfare which involves actions taken to search for , intercept, locate, record and analyse radiated electromagnetic energy, for the purpose of exploiting such radiations to support military operations. Thus, ESM is an important source of EW information to carry out electronic countermeasures and electronic, counter- countermeasures. ESM involves, in general, gathering of EW information through Electronic Intelligence (ELINT), Communications Intelligence (COMINT) and ESM receivers.

2.Electronic Counter Measures (ECM)

Electronic Countermeasures are the actions taken to prevent or reduce the enemy's effective use of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Two major actions of ECM are jamming and deception.

I. Jamming

The deliberate radiation, re-radiation, or reflection of electromagnetic energy to impair the use of electronic devices, equipment's or systems is called Jamming

II. Deception

The deliberate radiation, re-radiation, alteration, absorption, or reflection of electromagnetic energy in a manner intended to mislead the enemy in the interpretation or use of information received by his electronic systems is called deception. It is of 2 types.

a. Manipulative

The alteration or simulation of friendly electromagnetic radiations to accomplish deception.

b. Imitative

Introducing radiation into enemy channels which imitates his own emission.

2.Electronic Counter Counter Measures (ECCM)

The actions taken to ensure friendly, effective, use of the electromagnetic spectrum despite the enemy's use of EW are known as ECCM.

ACTIVE / PASSIVE ROLES

The field of EW is discussed in terms of active and passive roles.

Passive EW is the search for and analysis of electromagnetic radiation to determine the existence, source and pertinent characteristics of the enemy's use of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Active EW is the radiation or re-radiation of electromagnetic energy so as to impair the enemy's use of electronic equipment/system, or to mislead the enemy in the interpretation of data received from his electronic systems/devices.

ESM (Passive) and includes

1.ELINT
2.COMINT
3.DETECTION
4.DIRECTION FINDING
5.ANALYSIS
6.IDENTIFICATION
7.INTELLIGENCE

ECM (Active) and includes

1.DECEPTION (Active)
2.JAMMING (Active)
3.CHEMICAL (Passive)
4.MECHANICAL (Passive)

ECCM (Active / Passive) and includes

1.Anti-Passive
2.Anti-Active

You know AOC? Association of old crows, Electronic Warfare Experts?

I attend their lectures but school schedule makes me unable to attend some of their conference which needs travelling.


Let talk about the Khibiny which was used on USS Donald Cook. If the Khibiny really jammed the USS Donald Cook then then AN-ALQ 99 has the capability to do the same on US aegis radar.


In my opinion, if USS Donald Cook was truly jammed by the khibiny, it's not the khibiny that jammed it but it's pod was used to carry a specially made EA (electronic attack module)

.....and again the Russian claimed to have neutralized the Aircraft therefore making it deaf, dumb and blind . I'll go for barrage jamming do such and in this case, the khibiny doesn't seem to be a EW platform capable of doing so. Using barrage jamming means spreading out noise across all frequencies of the equipment used on USS Donald Cook and this means the jamming power won't be as effective when compared to spot jamming.

nemesis2u:


common on man u hurt me big time

information is a 2 way street

It's cool man just some emotional blackmail.
I saw your original post by the way.

Trainer JF17B spotted in China

JF17 B

jakeporeshenko:
JF17 B

JF17 single seat looks more beautiful.

A very bad day for Russia. They just managed to sink their spy ship off the coast of Turkey. All naval officers rescued alive.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39734998?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook

Xbee007:
A very bad day for Russia. They just managed to sink their spy ship off the coast of Turkey. All naval officers rescued alive.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39734998?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook

You should start another thread with this...

tdayof:


JF17 single seat looks more beautiful.

Far better, anyways my opinion is that this fighter is not NAF final bus stop it's only interim solution to fulfill multirole fighter requirements..... hopefully NAF has greater ambitions.

jakeporeshenko:

Far better, anyways my opinion is that this fighter is not NAF final bus stop it's only interim solution to fulfill multirole fighter requirements..... hopefully NAF has greater ambitions.

Yes, I just hope we're getting some single seat version.


I also hope NAF gets additional aircraft. I read a story where GEJ claimed the training of our military personnel by U.S. military was stopped around June 2014 because he doesn't see the need of them training our personnel and not selling us weapons.


There was Russia and someone here didn't think about that then? OUR GDP was booming then. The previous COAS messed up big time.


We could have been operating enough flankers.

tdayof:


Yes, I just hope we're getting some single seat version.


I also hope NAF gets additional aircraft. I read a story where GEJ claimed the training of our military personnel by U.S. military was stopped around June 2014 because he doesn't see the need of them training our personnel and not selling us weapons.


There was Russia and someone here didn't think about that then? OUR GDP was booming then. The previous COAS messed up big time.


We could have been operating enough flankers.

NAF using sukhois will do two things
• Defy the laws of Nigerian physics
• Bring a shitstorm

IMHO proper mix of JF17 block 2s & 3s + the Bs at the right quantity is the best way to go

I will always advocate potent ADS and Light weighters

Odunayaw:
NAF using sukhois will do two things
• Defy the laws of Nigerian physics
• Bring a shitstorm

IMHO proper mix of JF17 block 2s & 3s + the Bs at the right quantity is the best way to go

I will always advocate potent ADS and Light weighters

I wil love to see some su34 in our inventory with mix of the jf17 block 2 and 3.

ADS seems really expensive even from the chinese.