Izonpikin:
please show me the testimonies oh you idol worshipper...

Please show me the secondary book that should give us eternal life...

All these to prove a married woman never had sex with her dear husband so that she can be molded and worshipped ...

Freaks..

You have resorted to name calling..

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ETERNAL LIFE HERE.. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MARY'S LIFE

Again You emphasize sex.. just shows your mentality

Ubenedictus:
amen!


The issue is that the word used for 'brothers' in the greek scripture doesnt always mean uterine brothers, it can also mean fellow relatives or even countrymen. In this case we know the context doesnt support fellow countrymen so they are either relatives or blood brothers.
Here it is important to lay precept on precept, matthew already named the brothers of Jesus and then clearly wrote that they were sons of another mary who is a relative to mary the mother of Jesus. By this we know that the 'brothers' were simply his relatives.

the sisters nkor mentioned in Matthew? ??who gave birth to them. ...so from all your hasty assumptions and tumblongs we can say for all the times that Greek word was used it always meant relatives , meaning nobody in the Greek scriptures ever had blood siblings...they were all relatives or rather they all fell down from the heavens...

Selective application of the Greek word...can I assume the sons of zeebedee were also relatives? ?..

I am coming to debunk you idol worshippers..

Izonpikin:
my bible said they were husband and wife...the onus is on you Mary worshippers to show she never slept with her husband...how can a wife not sleep with her husband??..did God ban her??..not even the apocryphal writings can help out with that falsehood...


You guys have denied Innocent Joseph of sleeping with his wife..

I hope you haven't slept with your wife since you married her...??

Rubbish

Joseph and Mary are not ordinary husband and wife.. You should know that atleast.. Mary was no ordinary woman.. So Joseph did not treat her as an ordinary wife...

JOSEPH KNEW WHO SHE WAS.. UNLIKE YOU WHO EMPHASIZE SEX THAT YOU CAN'T PROVE HAPPENED

WHICH VERSE OF THE BIBLE EXPLICITLY SAYS Joseph had sex with Mary ?

JuneOctober:

Sorry, who?

I only mentioned who i know that will answer ur questions extensively

easymancfc:


Joseph and Mary are not ordinary husband and wife.. You should know that atleast.. Mary was no ordinary woman.. So Joseph did not treat her as an ordinary wife...

JOSEPH KNEW WHO SHE WAS.. UNLIKE YOU WHO EMPHASIZE SEX THAT YOU CAN'T PROVE HAPPENED

WHICH VERSE OF THE BIBLE EXPLICITLY SAYS Joseph had sex with Mary ?

please showe from the apocryphal writings that they weren't normal husband and wife...just show me...i am all out for you guys..

Joseph knew Mary was his loving wife and he had sex with her...God did not ban them...Mary was not a nun...

Izonpikin:
please showe from the apocryphal writings that they weren't normal husband and wife...just show me...i am all out for you guys..

Joseph knew Mary was his loving wife and he had sex with her...God did not ban them...Mary was not a nun...

maybe you have never heard of consecrated virgins before...

Go and read the PROTOEVANGELIUM OF JAMES..

To use your own language.. Read and expose your ignorance..

I have not even mention the testimony of early Christians...

Besides that the fathers of Protestantism Luther and Calvin believed it too

Izonpikin:
please showe from the apocryphal writings that they weren't normal husband and wife...just show me...i am all out for you guys..

Joseph knew Mary was his loving wife and he had sex with her...God did not ban them...Mary was not a nun...

Where did the Bible tell you that Joseph knew Mary was his loving wife and that he had sex with her??

book verse and chapter

or is that your carnal inference

easymancfc:


maybe you have never heard of consecrated virgins before...

Go and read the PROTOEVANGELIUM OF JAMES..

To use your own language.. Read and expose your ignorance..

I have not even mention the testimony of early Christians...

Besides that the fathers of Protestantism Luther and Calvin believed it too

Make I laugh small...

Consecrated virgins..and I just can't find it from Genesis to revelation. .oh I forgot there are other fairy tale books...

Patheos:


I only mentioned who i know that will answer ur questions extensively

Oh thank you so much.

JuneOctober:

Oh thank you so much.

You're welcome

Izonpikin:


Make I laugh small...

Consecrated virgins..and I just can't find it from Genesis to revelation. .oh I forgot there are other fairy tale books...

FAIRY TALE BOOKS.. that tells me just how much you know about canonical and non canonical writings of the early church ..

Christianity is not just biblical but also historical, Jesus is not just biblical figure but Also a historical person , there are historical aspects of virtually all biblical characters.. especially new testament ones... The Bible doesn't say everything about their lives you can read historical accounts about some of them also.. some eyewitness testimony of their lives which are not part of the Bible canon

Widen your scope if you want to discuss intelligibly.. Don't hide behind "show me in the Bible "

there are many things not recorded in the Bible as the Bible itself says (see John 21:25, john 20:30)...

I see lawyers and barristers that will sit in council for judgment of the Catholics on the last day already practicing their cut-n-join defense here...

I won't bother myself trying to explain anything to you here, rather all I can say is: I AM PROUD TO BE A CATHOLIC...!

FreshBoss007:

then why was Moses asked to make the graven serpent while the Israelites were in the desert.?? is God mixing things up?
secondly do you know after the commandments were given, Solomon temple had images of angels and other earthly beings
"Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent... Numbers 21:8-9

“You shall make two cherubim of gold; you shall make them of hammered work, at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub at the one end, and one cherub at the other; of one piece with the mercy seat you shall make the cherubim at its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings. They shall face one to another; the faces of the cherubim shall be turned toward the mercy seat.”(Exodus 25:18-20, NRSV)

I'm not aguing with u if God truly odered the moulding of doz statues in the OLD TESTAMENT, The old testament is full of burdens of laws (works) which if u want to live by dem is practically impossible, just as practicing self-righteousness is.JESUS CHRIST THE AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH IS THE END OF THE LAW(OLD TESTAMENT )
see: Galatians 3vs 24. it tells u dat the coming of Christianity is de practical end of Judaism (d mainstream religion during dat time ) dou not absolutely, becos James warned on the abuse of grace, so that we should not disregard d place of "Work".
The so called serpent u always reference was not being knelt ,prostrated nor prayed before but just to take a look at, and after d tin served it purposes was destroyed.
Go and read about d practice of Judaism, during feast like passover, first fruit etc, the first sons or born is usually the Lords, but wen dat child isn't offered to God as a priest or somtin d parents will com wit d child around a certain age wit a ram to offer sacrifice n dat doesn't mean dea are no oda siblings

easymancfc:


FAIRY TALE BOOKS.. that tells me just how much you know about canonical and non canonical writings of the early church ..

Christianity is not just biblical but also historical, Jesus is not just biblical figure but Also a historical person , there are historical aspects of virtually all biblical characters.. especially new testament ones... The Bible doesn't say everything about their lives you can read historical accounts about some of them also.. some eyewitness testimony of their lives which are not part of the Bible canon

Widen your scope if you want to discuss intelligibly.. Don't hide behind "show me in the Bible "

there are many things not recorded in the Bible as the Bible itself says (see John 21:25, john 20:30)...

christianity is about the things Jesus said and the happenings around him as recorded in the scriptures...

The Mary had no sex with her husband is inconsequential to the scheme of things and a pre-requisite for eternal life...infact Mary has no dealing with your faith and your survival from this idolatrous world.. .

If the whole books from Genesis to revelation can't give a single line to prove Mary remained a Virgin till death then no other fairy tale books can...Jesus was born through Mary's genitals so how can that same woman still be a virgin...who banned her genitals from being engaged with that of her God given husband... Mary never claimed to be a nazarite or one of those ladies who had decided to work in the temple..mary was just another faithful Israelite woman...

easymancfc:


Where did the Bible tell you that Joseph knew Mary was his loving wife and that he had sex with her??

book verse and chapter

or is that your carnal inference

the onus is on you to prove otherwise that Joseph declared himself celibate and also mary...show me...show me why two persons who weren't banned by God to have sex should refrain from it...show me the divorce certificate of Mary and joseph...nonsense

Themandator:



It is because he is here on the earth alive and the Bible says whatever you bind here is bound in heaven and whatever you loose here is loose there also and we have plenty examples from Jesus praying for others to the disciples doing same

Why can't you then pray for yourself; or can't you bind?

Splinz:


I don't know any of these churches. So, I don't speak for them.

Now, all these talks of “what about this... what about that person” is stale already. Are these people your own standard? While there's absolutely nothing wrong in having a friend's picture in either your house, car, office, etc, the moment that image becomes an abomination is when you put it before you, kneel/bow and pray to it. That is outright idolatry! So, in which of these churches you've mentioned is the worship/veneration of images sanctioned, as it is done in your Catholic church?

Tell me, that I may also call them out for their idolatry.

PS: Philippians 4:6 states: “...but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God”, not unto “Mary” or the “saints.” You don't need an intercessor to get your prayers to God, pray to Him in the name of Jesus as the mediator and you'll be heard! Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Deborah and other faithful servants of God never ask any saint or angel for intercession, but all made their requests and supplications directly to God, who is the hearer of prayers! (Psalm 65:2).

are you saying God does not answer the prayers of Catholics irrespective of how and where they pray? God answers the prayer of everybody no matter how you pray to him. Not even your religion matters. God will answer your prayer. God is that good person in your heart. The question about religious discussions should focus on if you believe in the afterlife or not. It shouldn't be superiority or inferiority.

Izonpikin:
and you had better move off from your ignorance and travel out to understand that no name is exclusive to a single person even from the same family. ..please travel down to bayelsa and observe how siblings are named...you guys ignorance is out of this world.. .

There are families where almost all the siblings have EBI as a base name for all of them. .Mary is just a name and nothing more ..her name isn't one that is sacred to her alone...mtsheew

You mentioned base name which I suppose is a prefix eg Olawale (Wale), Olakunle (Kunle), despite they both have "Ola" as their prefix, they will be called by their main names but in this case, MARY as a name, is a full name & not a prefix neither does it has a prefix nor suffix. So tell me which nuclear family will give two biological sisters "Mary?" May be you need to know that NAME is a unique identity for easy identification

LogicStatement:

You mentioned base name which I suppose is a prefix eg Olawale (Wale), Olakunle (Kunle), despite they both have "Ola" as their prefix, they will be called by their main names but in this case, MARY as a name, is a full name & not a prefix neither does it has a prefix nor suffix. So tell me which nuclear family will give two biological sisters "Mary?" May be you need to know that NAME is a unique identity for easy identification

may I inform you that if outsiders had to come to my house to look for my sisters they called them by their base names because of course they don't know about the suffix and prefix..they come and they say I am looking for Tare...same with when a father and son answer name but one senior and the other junior...outsiders would only identify them by their base names...

Besides you guys have only been jumping here and there..

Jesus specifically differentiated his earthly siblings and Mum from his spiritual siblings like I quoted earlier..who selectively picks out Mary as exclusive whilst the others end up relatives must have an idolatrous motive...there was never a time Mary was separated from her other kids when ever the family was looking for Jesus...

bros stop deceiving yourself.

easymancfc:


If Paul could ask for prayers from Christians then the apostles could ask for prayers from Mary who is a Christian too...

We take Mary as our Mother... Just as John and any other disciples who loved Christ would have because Jesus told John to take Mary as his Mother and for Mary to take John as her Son.. (John 19:27) and the commandment says Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

So by Jesus making Mary John's Mother He and the disciples would have honored her...

AND FINALLY EVERY REASONABLE CHILD COUNTS ON HIS MOTHER'S PRAYERS.. EVEN IF WE DON'T ASK FOR IT DIRECTLY, THEY DON'T HESITATE TO DO IT..

A MOTHER ALWAYS PRAYS FOR HER CHILDREN AND WISE CHILDREN ASK FOR THEIR MOTHER'S INTERCESSION

One thing I have learnt in my Christian life is never to engage Pentecostals in any reasonable discus. They are quite good at avoiding every fact before them like a plaque.

Christianity has always been centered in Oral tradition and the Scriptures before d advent of all this modern day Pentecostals.


Proudly Catholic

Can someone unconsciously or subconsciously worship an object?

Izonpikin:
may I inform you that if outsiders had to come to my house to look for my sisters they called them by their base names because of course they don't know about the suffix and prefix..they come and they say I am looking for Tare...same with when a father and son answer name but one senior and the other junior...outsiders would only identify them by their base names...

Besides you guys have only been jumping here and there..

Jesus specifically differentiated his earthly siblings and Mum from his spiritual siblings like I quoted earlier..who selectively picks out Mary as exclusive whilst the others end up relatives must have an idolatrous motive...there was never a time Mary was separated from her other kids when ever the family was looking for Jesus...

It seems you don't just get it! This is not about one bearing Ebimary & the other Ebitina, NO! It's two biological sisters named Mary. For example, Mr Joseph has two daughters, he named the 1st Mary Joseph and the other Mary Joseph. When Mr Joseph wants the attention of one of his daughters and he has a particular one in mind and calls out "Mary", who do you think should answer his call?

LogicStatement:

It seems you don't just get it! This is not about one bearing Ebimary & the other Ebitina, NO! It's two biological sisters named Mary. For example, Mr Joseph has two daughters, he named the 1st Mary Joseph and the other Mary Joseph. When Mr Joseph wants the attention of one of his daughters and he has a particular one in mind and calls out "Mary", who do you think should answer his call?

now let's go into logic since you guys won't leave mary alone...what if the siblings of Mary were half siblings there's more than enough reason why they both can answer mary..apart from the fact that even siblings today answer name from an outsider point of view..abi na only mary her papa born..

Do I bow down to them during prayer to worship? Mumu. Continue your idolatry.

martooski:


and u av d image of ur mother and father and thysef..... u this family worshipper

Quit mentioning me on this subject, I have made my point clear and if it eludes you then I can't keep up with this conversation.

Ubenedictus:
Tell that to joshua in the bible, since you now claim to know peoples heart and know when they mean to show respect or honour or adoration.

your wahala is that you seem ignorant of the fact that worship comes from the heart, only d person and God knows if it is worship or not, mere bowing or prostrating doesnt imply worship, it is the intent, and you can't come here and pontificate about other peoples intention and what is in their heart. that is presumptous and insultive.

What are you saying, do you understand what "anything" entails?

Ubenedictus:
But if you make an image of a cherubim it is ok abi?

Who told you water is colourless?

Ubenedictus:
SO who told you catholics are 'bowing in worship' or did you assume that by yourself?

My dear , this topic is really exasperating. They would stop at nothing to justify their idolatry. Its really shameful.

Splinz:


I keep on harping that these people are either playing dumb or suffering from chronic lack of comprehension skills. I mean, it is so obvious, and there's no sugar-coating it.

Okay. They claimed that they don't worship Mary, but they venerate her and the rest of their so-called saints. Now, lets look up the meaning of the word “venerate” in the dictionary: “regard with great respect; revere,” and one of its synonyms is “worship.” Venerate, revere, reverence, worship, and adore all mean to honor and admire profoundly and respectfully, and this honor have non other than God (Deuteronomy 6:13, Psalm 111:9, Isaiah 42:8 ). In Psalm 111:9 (KJV), it states: “...holy and reverend is His name.”

So then, it means that God alone is worthy of this honor, because He has already said that He wouldn't give His glory to another nor His praise to some dumb, blind, lame and worthless idols!

PS: Did you also notice that so-called Reverend Fathers and Pastors are actually claiming God, i.e, dragging His name?

That's like saying "why did God let his disciples die, did God forsake them"?

God does as He wills.

Rich4god:
lol... So wat happened to Turkey (a place that was the head of the Eastern church, Constantinople).... Wat happened to the people of North Africa that are still Muslim. Did God forsake them.

Your idolatry is not my business just like my salvation is entirely my business.

easymancfc:


I don't answer to you... I answer to God.. I have told you what I believe, if you don't accept it then it concerns you..

Worry about your salvation not my "idolatry "

Stop quoting me and focus on your own salvation too.

easymancfc:


I don't bow down to statues whenever I want to pray... that's what you say I do... which is wrong... I use the statue as a reminder, and I respect it because of who it represents and I pray with it.. NOT TO IT, AS A KIND OF PROXY... JUST LIKE A PERSON MIGHT TALK TO A PHOTOGRAPH OF A PERSON HE IS MISSING...

like I said let God who sees the heart judge.. not you.. WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN SALVATION