.

Akiintom:


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions.

Akiintom:


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions.

MZLady39:


Brother,
Thanks....I really am trying to do better at keeping calm in all circumstances....
Not to leave you hanging, but my brother here (iSpirit1) beautifully answered the questions in the manner I would've...so no need for me to repeat. In fact, all his posts on this thread were correct.
But I think I'm gonna pass on your last question also...cause you didn't play "fairly" in constructing it

Nah, iSpirit1 answered just one and ran off.

iSpirit1:
Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions. Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions.

You're the one who claimed infants are sinners, because of Adam and Eve.

But your Bible says the soul that sin shall die. Against visiting the sin of Adam on infants.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Do you now understand your self contradicting position?

mrmrmister:


"it was a result of sin"

What word can be used in place of the above?

No be punishment, na reward.

Mental gymnasts.

iSpirit1:
Adam(Mankind) was the chief creation of God. The whole earth was put under him. Therefore, his subordinates were affected by his sin.

Why?

MZLady39:


The animals committed no sin. They, being creatures on the earth, have been affected by the sin committed by Adam & Eve.. as well as all of nature.

Why ?

Just take a look at the dumb responses...

Phewww!

iSpirit1:
Adam(Mankind) was the chief creation of God. The whole earth was put under him. Therefore, his subordinates were affected by his sin.

MZLady39:


The animals committed no sin. They, being creatures on the earth, have been affected by the sin committed by Adam & Eve.. as well as all of nature.

MZLady39:


Sin affects all....regardless of race, sex, creed, culture, creature etc.
Sin's not fair. But for now, this world is ravaged by it....
That's why people sometimes wonder why situations happen to some people and not others. It's not even that people are the cause of some things that happen....
But it won't always be this way....

CandidSeeker:


I understand your perspective now.

To God Be All The Glory.

Please check your mail. Thanks

Will answer those of you who mentioned me respectfully tomorrow ...since i'm 6 hrs behind you all
Thanks

MZLady39:
Will answer those of you who mentioned me respectfully tomorrow ...since i'm 6 hrs behind you all
Thanks

Are you AA? i thought african americans are becoming 'woke'

Wilgrea7:




it was caused by an irregularity.. probably in the DNA or something.. not sure tho.. many of these cases have causes.. most being not so “natural".. e.g radiation which causes mutation etc.. just like how many natural disasters are beginning to have a not so natural cause... deformities have different causes but i don't know the cause so i can't judge

Good explanation though......I don not see why hardmirror blames God for Human deformities.

What of that of animals and plant genetically cross breeded.

HardMirror:
TO ME THE MOST GLARING PROOF That THE NONE EXISTENCE OF THE ABRAHAMIC GOD Is only a reasonable conclusion can be vividly arrived at when we ask questions that weighs reality with what we are to believe and to me the best demonstration is from children born in innocence. Why would God create such children. I more importantly, I why should surgeons be responsible for such children born with defects.? Why can't we just take them to God in prayer. I wonder if God can separate conjoined twins for example. Does this provoke some logical thoughts?


[img][/img]

[img]http://3.bp..com/_nxUXiaBoAng/RtameNSCmuI/AAAAAAAABJA/K4Jhl2GgSM8/s1600-h/1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://4.bp..com/_nxUXiaBoAng/RtaoedSCmxI/AAAAAAAABJY/oVVt-K2dgMw/s400/4.jpg[/img]

Op did the mother of the baby tell you she serves the God of Abraham

May God have mercy on your soul.

lepasharon:


Why ?

I don't know if I can answer why "sin" affects all....but it clearly does...
The greater question is how did sin originate in a perfect Heaven...in an angel who was basically second in command behind the Godhead...who had to be expelled from the Kingdom down to earth....
That is called, the "mystery of iniquity"....

lepasharon:


Are you AA? i thought african americans are becoming 'woke'

LOL....some are and some aren't....

ScepticalPyrrho:
Just take a look at the dumb responses...

Phewww!

Alrighty then.....umm....well....
Thanks brother

Collyno82:
Good morning MZlady39. u tried but ur still not there. Firstly, Garden of Eden is a fact, a natural place of rest, but it wasn't perfect. Is not a perfect paradise as u painted it to be. Reason being that in the middle of the garden, there is a tree of life and tree of death( tree of wisdom unto destruction). Also there is serpent and satan DAT made them to no BTW good n evil. therefore a perfect place ought not to have those attributes mentioned above.
Having said that, DISOBEDIENCE IN ITSELF IS NOT SIN. but disobedience to some certain things are sin. Listen attentively, Disobedience to an unlawful order or instruction is not sin its godly. thanks for ur reply. looking forward to put me right if am wrong.Shalom

Hi again brother,
Ok...I see what you are trying to say....but....that tree being in the garden....and having an instruction attached to it....didn't make the garden imperfect.
There still were two healthy human beings, no wars, famine, disease, deformities, death etc.
Perhaps the "tree" was a test for the couple....is a test a sign of imperfection?
We can't always assume to know the mind of God...and why He does or allows things.
However, an instruction was given regarding that tree.....period.
All was still perfect until the instruction was discarded.
And yes...the serpent/enemy was in the garden.
He had no role to play in this situation except "tempter". He did not "make" Eve eat the fruit...he only tempted her...and she succumbed.
Temptation itself is not sin.....it's if one chooses to yield to it.
But look at this from another angle.
If the tree had not been in the garden....or an instruction was not given regarding it...then these created beings would've been serving God out of force....and not by their own "free-will".
Meaning the ability to have "free-will" would've been removed and thus they would basically have been robots.
Even the angels in the Kingdom don't serve and worship God out of force. Wasn't Lucifer able to convince 1/3 of the angels that God was unfair...God allowed him and them to believe that. Now if God were a God of "force", He would've told that particular group of angels that they couldn't believe that about Himself....
Anyhow, (regarding the tree), instruction was given.....they had a choice...and they made that choice...knowing the consequences...
The choice they made happened to effect the state of the earth in a negative way.
The whole point is that if something has to be "restored" to its original state, then that implies that it has been corrupted.
Hope I wasn't confusing.....

P.S. Not sure I understood your statement about disobedience though. Please give examples for me.
Thanks

Mrmrmister,
I'm not sure he ran.....i thought he had answered what needed to be answered.....

MZLady39:
Mrmrmister,
I'm not sure he ran.....i thought he had answered what needed to be answered.....

Nah He did not.

MZLady39:


I don't know if I can answer why "sin" affects all....but it clearly does...
The greater question is how did sin originate in a perfect Heaven...in an angel who was basically second in command behind the Godhead...who had to be expelled from the Kingdom down to earth....
That is called, the "mystery of iniquity"....

" mystery of iniquity" is a creation of men, that can't explain why Satan sinned.

I expect that you can now see, that the whole biblical cosmology, is completely mythical and superstitious.

lepasharon:

Why?

If the head is sick, the whole body is sick with it.

Akiintom:


" mystery of iniquity" is a creation of men, that can't explain why Satan sinned.

I expect that you can now see, that the whole biblical cosmology, is completely mythical and superstitious.

I've already explained why satan sinned.

He misused his freewill and corrupted himself.

iSpirit1:
I've already explained why satan sinned.

He misused his freewill and corrupted himself.

You didn't answer poo!

Your God created Satan and other creatures, with the purpose of having loving and sweet fellowship with them.

If that's is true, why did God create in them, the ability to do what will destroy that singular purpose.

Why will you use your money, to build a house, that can collapse eventually, when you could build one that will not?

MZLady39:


Hi again brother,
Ok...I see what you are trying to say....but....that tree being in the garden....and having an instruction attached to it....didn't make the garden imperfect.
There still were two healthy human beings, no wars, famine, disease, deformities, death etc.
Perhaps the "tree" was a test for the couple....is a test a sign of imperfection?
We can't always assume to know the mind of God...and why He does or allows things.
However, an instruction was given regarding that tree.....period.
All was still perfect until the instruction was discarded.
And yes...the serpent/enemy was in the garden.
He had no role to play in this situation except "tempter". He did not "make" Eve eat the fruit...he only tempted her...and she succumbed.
Temptation itself is not sin.....it's if one chooses to yield to it.
But look at this from another angle.
If the tree had not been in the garden....or an instruction was not given regarding it...then these created beings would've been serving God out of force....and not by their own "free-will".
Meaning the ability to have "free-will" would've been removed and thus they would basically have been robots.
Even the angels in the Kingdom don't serve and worship God out of force. Wasn't Lucifer able to convince 1/3 of the angels that God was unfair...God allowed him and them to believe that. Now if God were a God of "force", He would've told that particular group of angels that they couldn't believe that about Himself....
Anyhow, (regarding the tree), instruction was given.....they had a choice...and they made that choice...knowing the consequences...
The choice they made happened to effect the state of the earth in a negative way.
The whole point is that if something has to be "restored" to its original state, then that implies that it has been corrupted.
Hope I wasn't confusing.....

P.S. Not sure I understood your statement about disobedience though. Please give examples for me.
Thanks

sis how are u doing? am glad u agree that the presence of evil (serpent & Satan) doesn't create a perfect environment With regards to the garden of Eden.
Having said that, on the issue of disobedience, I opined that DISOBEDIENCE in itself is not a cause of sin as u pointed out earlier.
For instance if u disobeyed an unlawful order or instruction, have u sin, the answer is no.
for example, ur boss in the office instruct u to inflate the expenses u made in the office that cost u 10k to 20k and u disobeyed him and refused to carry out his instruction, have u sin? since ur doing the right thing.
Therefore I conclude DAT disobedience in itself is not sin. it depends on wat ur disobeying in DAT u can say is sin or not. so ur assertion that DISOBEDIENCE is sin or causes to sin is incorrect.
Thanks n do have a wonderful day. cheers

Akiintom:


" mystery of iniquity" is a creation of men, that can't explain why Satan sinned.

I expect that you can now see, that the whole biblical cosmology, is completely mythical and superstitious.

U can't rule out the elements of myths, legends and even superstitious beliefs in bible cosmology as u choose to put it, but the greater percentage of the biblical eschatology deals with the reality of the Godhead, and also with a vivid representation of real essence and existence of Jehovah

Collyno82:
U can't rule out the elements of myths, legends and even superstitious beliefs in bible cosmology as u choose to put it, but the greater percentage of the biblical eschatology deals with the reality of the Godhead, and also with a vivid representation of real essence and existence of Jehovah

How can you establish the "reality" of this Godhead?

Akiintom:

How can you establish the "reality" of this Godhead?

Thanks bro. You can establish the reality of the Godhead through the words of our Lord Jesus Christ himself. In the book of In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus gave His disciples the Great Commission, stating that they were to teach and baptize in the names of the Godhead , "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Furthermore 1 John 5:7 states "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one .

Collyno82:
Thanks bro. You can establish the reality of the Godhead through the words of our Lord Jesus Christ himself. In the book of In Matthew 28:19-20, Jesus gave His disciples the Great Commission, stating that they were to teach and baptize in the names of the Godhead , "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
Furthermore 1 John 5:7 states "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one .

Do you understand what reality means?

Akiintom:


Do you understand what reality means?

yes of course. I do, it has to do with having existence or substance. also it is the state of things as they actually exist.

Collyno82:
yes of course. I do, it has to do with having existence or substance. also it is the state of things as they actually exist.

OK, which of the Godhead members, has substantial existence?

Akiintom:


OK, which of the Godhead members, has substantial existence?

All of them within the Godhead substantially exists as distinct personalities

Collyno82:
All of them within the Godhead substantially exists as distinct personalities

Take God, and show or prove its substantial existence.