Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 12:04pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: God revealed the principle of tithing through Abraham . It has been part of God worship ever since . The law brought a reminder Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by simplex2: 12:06pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
petra1: According to your bible, it is prohibited to give money as tithe; there were specified conditions in which you are allowed to exchange your tithe for money (if you study your bible with open mind). Only farmers were asked to tithe, farmers only! The reason being that the purpose of tithe was so there will be food. In the jewish law, those that are not farmers don't pay tithe. There were tenth makers, fishermen, carpenters, tax collectors and so on, but those ones were not asked to tithe; it was only farmers, so there will be food. petra1: Again, fruits, plants and food! Not money and of course you know there was money is existence then (Deutronomy 22) I don't know what gave you the impression that tithing is an eternal principle, but it just shows you are sugarcoating the topic to justify your point. There are many ways in which those that minister of the gospel can partake according to the verse you quoted. There is the offerings and seeds which nobody is against. If your pastors want to partake; let them preach more on offerings and seeds (this is what Paul preached, not tithing but offerings and seeds). Unless your god is the aurthur of confusion. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Peacefullove: 12:08pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
petra1: Goshhh! very simple, if tithe was what he meant here KINDLY show me a record of where he collects tithe ? 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 12:35pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
simplex2: Where didn’t the Bible say so there were specified conditions in which you are allowed to exchange your tithe for money (if you study your bible with open mind). Only farmers were asked to tithe, farmers only! The reason being that the purpose of tithe was so there will be food. In the jewish law, those that are not farmers don't pay tithe. There were tenth makers, fishermen, carpenters, tax collectors and so on, but those ones were not asked to tithe; it was only farmers, so there will be food. Firstly we are not tithing because of the law . Tithing existed before the law . God only related with the Jews in agricultural terms because they were a nation of farmers . Unclean animals and herbs were exchanged for money . People give money because money represent labour . Tithe must not be money . Anything can be given as tithe Again, fruits, plants and food! Not money and of course you know there was money is existence then (Deutronomy 22) The offering you recommended , were they not part of the law also ? You cannot condemn tithe and justify offering why is Satan singling out the tithe . That’s the question we should ask ourselves Unless your god is the aurthur of confusion. Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Your own God seem to be the one that is author of confusion here Your God believe we should give only offering yet two of them existed in Old Testament |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 12:53pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
Peacefullove:  No, it's eternal principles but never recorded....that he collected it.... 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by simplex2: 2:15pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
Goshen360:  It was recorded 'eternally' that he collected tithes; it was not meant for the physical eyes but the spiritual eyes. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by simplex2: 2:49pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
You are just appealing to emotions. Its not a valid way of arguing. If you want to argue with the bible as your proof, do that diligently and not making unfounded claims:
This is wrong, with no proof whatsoever. Jews were not predominantly farmers; there were tenth-makers, carpenters, soldiers, blacksmiths, fishermen and a lot of other occupation. The reason for the specific instruction to tithe with foodstuffs only is emphasized in the bible; so that there will be food in the storehouse!
You need to study your bible more often. I will quote the verse were tithing was thought in your bible so that you wont claim ignorance: Deuteronomy 14:22-29 King James Version (KJV) 22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. 23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. 24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee: 25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose: 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, ____ Verse 22 and 23 showed clearly what is tithe-able; Verse 24 and 25 shows the only time you are allowed to convert you tithe to money and what to do with it. Now if you claim tithing predates the law, an eternal principle and all that, your bible tells you plainly that jesus preached offerings but never tithe. Paul commended the church of Philippians for giving unto him, seeds and offering (check chapter 4), none of the apostles collected tithe. Peter collected voluntary donations and gift offerings from the church and some sold their lands and properties to fund church ministry (remember ananiahs and his wife in Acts 5?) If tithing was scriptural, there are a lot of evidence in your bible where the early apostles needed money but never asked for tithe to build the church. Why is it at this dispensation that tithe became a must and an eternal principle? Your pastors are now more intelligent and more spiritual than the apostles? If your only biblical proof of tithing is from mal 3:10, then you are still a baby christian; grow up. Be like the Berean christians of Acts 17: 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Note that those in Thessalonica are still christians, but the Bereans were commended for searching to see if those things taught by Paul and Silas were true. I am officially done with you. You are sapping my energy. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 7:55pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
simplex2: Tithe is given of what a man posses at a time . Luke 18:12 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. Genesis 14:20 . . . And he gave him tithes of all. Genesis 28:22 . . . of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee. Deuteronomy 14:22-29 King James Version (KJV) Offerers and tithers under the law had the option to give money . It’s a matter of choice Leviticus 27:31 31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it. ___ Verse 22 and 23 showed clearly what is tithe-able; Verse 24 and 25 shows the only time you are allowed to convert you tithe to money and what to do with it. The regular tithe is not for eating nor for the poor . It is given to God as Abraham did . Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord. The daddy freeze one you quoted was only for Love feast of the Jewish national camp meeting . It’s not the tithe they give to God. They are different The tithe to God is for the service of the terbanacle and temple . God does not accept unclean animal as offering or tithe neither perishable item . Any other person give money which represent their labour . Remember We are not tithing because of the law . Tithes and offering has been before the law . Same way we may not pray according The the structure of the law . We pray because it’s a principle [quotes]Now if you claim tithing predates the law, an eternal principle and all that, your bible tells you plainly that jesus preached offerings but never tithe. [/quote] You cannot separate tithes from offering . If people worship God with offering it is hypocrisy to condemn tithe . Both were mentioned in the law . As well as alms for the poor that many are advocating . Jesus condemned many traditions of the Jews endorsed offering and tithing . Matthew 23:23 . . .! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law—justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things. Paul commended the church of Philippians for giving unto him, seeds and offering Seed is different it’s not a New Testament thing . It’s a principle also . People did give seed house to prophets in the Old Testament . there’ are different kinds of givings even for the poor and parents . We must do all . Greedy people just looking for a way around . (check chapter 4), none of the apostles collected tithe Where did the Bible say so Peter collected voluntary donations and gift offerings from the church and some sold their lands and properties to fund church ministry (remember ananiahs and his wife in Acts 5?) Seed sowing is a principle . Even though some of your friends here are still mad at it sef ! If tithing was scriptural, there are a lot of evidence in your bible where the early apostles needed money but never asked for tithe to build the church. Tithing is one of our smallest giving . We give more than the tithe . As I said there are different givings . Some genuine anti tithers knows that tithes is small they would even give more thank that they are just against the legality of the percentage not the amount or the size .They even believe that the 10% is a limitation and I respect them for that but they are entitled to their opinion . But other antitithers are merely non libra people who want to excuse their greedy conscience . I am officially done with you. You are sapping my energy. I appreciate your time but I didn’t force you . Thanks for stopping by anyway |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by plainbibletruth: 7:56pm On Nov 13, 2017 |
Eternal Principle? We need to be clear about something. To say tithing is eternal means it existed before human history. There is simply no evidence for this. Tithing is not eternal in the way that God is eternal. There would have been no tithe before men or angels existed. So, tithing has not "eternally" existed. Tithing started at a point in time in human history. Even if by "eternal principle" they mean that tithing has been a requirement from the very beginning of human history, how does that make it a thing for all generations? We have shown that a covenant as seriously regarded as CIRCUMCISION is no longer binding on the Christian. We have shown that the EPISTLES show clearly how Christians gave and directives for giving. Pro-tithers like Petra1, on the other hand, HAVE NOT been able to show where it is said under the New Covenant that the Christian should tithe or even explain CLEARLY what they mean by "eternal principle". Brandishing words or phrases that convey nothing do not resolve issues in the hearts of people. In response to people pointing out the CORRECT Biblical position on TITHING many pulpits resort to emotional blackmail of these people without Scriptural backing or justification. Where scripture is quoted it is TWISTED to make it mean what the pulpit wants. Shouting condemnation and warnings for church members to ignore questions and comments on TITHING clarifies nothing. For too long self-glorified 'Men of God' have arrogated to themselves a level of authority that has not been given to them by their master. In fact many of them do not see themselves or live lives that show that they are ACCOUNTABLE to any master. 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by ScepticalPyrrho: 10:35am On Nov 14, 2017 |
petra1:You haven't answered my question... See below Which one do they give to God? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 7:03am On Nov 16, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: Through his ministers or given in the place of worship |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 8:09am On Nov 16, 2017 |
petra1:Nothing could be further from the truth that this remark petra1:Please give each instances of when it has been part of God worship ever since along with the names of each practitioners? petra1:SMH Another popular misconception based on faulty thinking and/or understanding Abraham, we know, paid tithe, and the Israelites, we know too, paid tithes; Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek, aside who Abraham paid tithe to, we also know when, where and how. The Israelites paid tithes to the Levites, aside who the Israelites paid tithe to, we also we know when, where and how. When Samuel's mother, Hannah, made a vow, we see in the bible when she fulfilled it When Jephthah made a vow, we see in the bible when and how he fulfilled it Kindly show in an acceptable & convincible manner where, when, and how Jacob fulfilled his tithe part vow please and who Jacob handed over the tithe to? God, after so many fighting battles and winning wars, has finally now given the promise land He told Jacob about to the Israelities (i.e. descendants of Jacob) What Leviticus 27:30 and the law actually did, was bringing about a reminder of the vow Jacob made and since God has completely fulfilled His promise the time for the promise Jacob made in Genesis 28:22b is now ready to be activated and/or fulfilled petra1, after over 400 years plus, God, in Leviticus 27:30, is state a fact and now formally requesting or demanding what is due Him |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by ScepticalPyrrho: 9:08am On Nov 16, 2017 |
petra1:The Israelites gave burnt offerings to God. None was taken for use by so-called ministers. The levites were given food(one tenth) so they can survive without working. You all need to stop this nonsense, their was no minister receiving tithe on behalf of god in the bible. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 10:44pm On Nov 16, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: Ezekiel 44:29 29 They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs. .
They won’t wear food as clothes and shoes abi? Funiture, bed , house ? Will eat grain and wear grain abi there was no minister receiving tithe on behalf of god in the bible. Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord. Numbers 18:21-25 21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel 1 Like |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by ScepticalPyrrho: 12:29am On Nov 17, 2017 |
petra1:none of your quotes shows that tithe were money, rather they strengthen my argument |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 5:29am On Nov 17, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: Be decent enough to acknowledge where you missed as scripture is presented to you not being evasive and jumping into a new topic. You question was not about tithes being money . Tithe could be money and produce. Farmers have the option of giving money value . It’s called redemption . Leviticus 27:31 31 And if a man wants to redeem any of his tithe, he shall add a fifth to it. People also give from Sales or other income Luke 18:12 (MSG) 12 I fast twice a week and tithe on all my income.' Luke 18:12 (DARBY) 12 I fast twice in the week, I tithe everything I gain. ' |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 7:38am On Nov 17, 2017 |
ScepticalPyrrho: petra1:If you want to buy back the LORD's tenth of the grain or fruit, you must pay its value, plus 20 percent - Leviticus 27:31 Yes, tithe always is given on agricultural produce (i.e. of the grain or fruit and animal stock) Now, its only, if for some reason best known to self, one doesnt want to tithe a particular grain, fruit and/or animal stock then such person, can buy back the particular grain, fruit and/or animal stock at it's monetary face value The person, not only buys back the tithe at its apparent worth but must also pay a surcharge, which is an additional payment of 20 percent of the apparent worth So in order to keep the agricultural produce (i.e. of the grain or fruit and animal stock) for self instead of tithing it there is that provision, to buy it back (i.e. called redemption as it's being redeemed) with an additional 20% penalty There is no such thing as a free lunch Paying tithe as money or in money, comes with a 20% surcharge price penalty In effect, for choosing not to give the expected tithe, one ends up, paying in money, the apparent worth of the expected tithe, plus an additional 20 percent of the apparent worth petra1:And who were these people, who "also give from Sales or other income"? Yup, it was the Pharisees The Pharisees are well known for their supererogation Other Israelites paid their tithes on agricultural produce and livestock (i.e. these are which alone tithe was due) but the Pharisees would give in to unnecessary and misplaced excessiveness Paying tithes on things, which the law strictly doesnt stipulate and/or nor require, such as milk, cheese, eggs, pot herbs etcetera You wouldnt find any of the apostles doing these extremes or other disciples of Jesus Christ talking or boasting about performing the unrequired extremes of Luke 18:12 |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Bukolar1(f): 3:42pm On Nov 18, 2017 |
[ Men of God don't collect offerings nor tithes. Ushers do. [/quote] hmmmmm .... so ushers collect the tithes and offerings and sent it straight to God? The problem is that we keep deceiving ourselves and that's why Christians are mad at this Tithe trend. This is the time to tell ourselves nothing but the truth. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by gabe: 9:24pm On Nov 18, 2017 |
petra1:See how you are quoting OT laws just because it's tithing. Laws Christ refused to burden his followers with. To justify 'principles' described not by Christ, his apostles, Paul or any early christian leader but by books written by your G.Os copied from their american pentecostal mentors. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 10:00pm On Nov 18, 2017 |
gabe: It has become OT now? But when daddy freeze was posting his trash with OT it was ok Abi. Laws Christ refused to burden his followers with Error ! Jesus says to give tithe . Matthew 23:23 . You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things To justify 'principles' described not by Christ Matthew 22:21 (KJV) They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. his apostles, 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by gabe: 7:14am On Nov 19, 2017 |
petra1:You tithing champions have stock quotes you take out of context to justify your position. The only time Jesus talked about tithes was condemning the pharisees and their practice of hypocritical giving as evidenced in their tithing even herbs. He knew levites depended on tithes for their sustainance and it would be suicidal to ask adherents of the old law to stop sustaining them. He however, gave NO directive on tithing to his followers. He always advocated selfless giving. Same as his apostles. Same as Paul. Same as all early church fathers in ALL of christian history. Please feel free to check all the 'eternal principles' quoted by your G.Os in books copied from their american republican evangelical mentors and give ONE example where Christ, ANY apostle, Paul or any early christian leaders gave clear directives to christians to tithe. Or maybe your G.Os and pastors are more intelligent than Christ and his apostles on instructions about giving |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 5:35am On Nov 22, 2017 |
gabe: He condemned the Pharisee but endorsed the tithe . That’s good enough for every honest man He knew levites depended on tithes for their sustainance and it would be suicidal to ask adherents of the old law to stop sustaining them. He however, gave NO directive on tithing to his followers It existed before the levites came . The work of God must be funded in every generation . Paul or any early christian leaders gave clear directives to christians to tithe. Or maybe your G.Os and pastors are more intelligent than Christ and his apostles on instructions about giving Paul was clear enough here . 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by gabe: 9:18am On Nov 22, 2017 |
petra1:Exactly. By free will donations as recommended by Christ,all the apostles and early christian leaders not from tithes coerced from christians by psychological blackmail. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Goshen360(m): 9:43am On Nov 22, 2017 |
petra1: Why don't you replace your name or your pastor name or replace with Apostle Peter in place of SCRIBES AND PHARISEES and see how it will read to your ears....I'm talking about Matthew 23.23. As for 1 cor. 9 vs 13 and 14, If Paul meant or is referring to tithe in that scripture, THEN THE ORDER WILL BE: Israel brings tithe to Levites and levites gives tithe to priest. If interpreted toda, the order will be: Members bring tithe to CHURCH WORKERS and WORKERS give tithe to pastors. DO YOU AGREE? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by Peacefullove: 12:46pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
petra1: you keep quoting this Corinthians you can't explain neither do you understand. If what Paul Meant was tithe, show us where he lived off the gospel by Collecting tithes ? |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 2:21pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
GavelSlam: Was Melchizedek from Israel? He is talking of eternal principles. Israel as a nation is not the cursor in this issue. Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1: 14 -15. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by GavelSlam: 2:25pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
MightySparrow: It is explicit in the Bible except you wish to write yours. Tithe is to the orphans, strangers, widows and Levites (for they have no inheritance) there is no basis for a man to register an organisation then claim tithe when he doesn't belong to the aforementioned. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MightySparrow: 2:32pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
GavelSlam: Tithing started with Melchizedek and Abraham later commanded to Israelites and many more things. Like sacrifice started with Cain and Abel etc. Show from the scriptures when Melchizedek ran an orphanage. |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 6:28pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
Peacefullove: kindly find it |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 6:31pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
Goshen360: offerings nko? you see the issue is not about the how but about the what? tithe is Gods. given to the high priest through the ministers |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by petra1(m): 6:34pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
gabe: freewill donations was under the law as well. same principles in different generations. tithes ,offerings,freewill ,alms ,fasting,praying etc. its parallel . you can't take one and condemn the other except there specific scripture that says otherwise |
| Re: Tithes And Offerings Are Eternal Principles by MuttleyLaff: 6:41pm On Nov 22, 2017 |
petra1:Define offering according to the biblical terms understanding. Define the format of offering as regards the bible historically petra1:We know in the bible which priest Abraham gave tithe to. We know in the bible which priests the Israelites gave tithes to. Now tell, who was the "high priest" Jacob gave his tithe to You incorrectly seem to think only priests received tithes in the bible. You also seem to think Abraham started the whole idea of giving tithes, especially the one about giving to another local ruler cum priest worthy of the consideration 1 Like |
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