solite3:
base on the bible.

Show me how the bible influenced the positioning of 1st person, 2nd person and 3rd person .

am waiting

lovingJehovah:
You shouldn't attack anyone. Jesus advised us to preach in Matthew 24:14, not to attack. The point is that the doctrine of the trinity cannot be totally proven by anyone even when you apply some logic and back it up with Bible verses. The truth is the truth and no matter how deep you sink it, the crystals will sparkle from any depth. I have met theologians who tried to prove the trinity. Sadly, the end of the explanation is always "God is a mystery", "You cannot understand the nature of God with your physical minds" etc.
I always wonder if they, who are of same mortal minds like me, feel deep in their hearts that they are angels to have been able to understand God better.
You cannot blame people that much because the revered religious men of today who are supposed to dish out the proper spiritual food to people pay paramount attention to things that are financially beneficial. So, you have an assignment in Matthew 28:19-20. @Ferisidowu do you do that?

I followed the arguments right through and find the fact you actually have engaged with the text very highly refreshing.

A lot of people try to square the Trinity argument but never confess they don't quite get it. They spew what they have been told to believe without realising they are actually killing one aspect of that Trinity they are claiming to be an aspect of God.

My God bless you. I want to thank you for your patience and time to read through it. I truly appreciate your comment. We try to teach the truth about Jehovah, our God. For him to have sent his son in exchange for our sins, we dig deep into the Bible no matter how hard people try to change the texts in the scriptures. The truth must shine. I understand that it is difficult for people to embrace something new considering the number of years that they have held a wrong opinion. Nonetheless, when you dress up nice and expensive and suddenly discovers that your outfit is torn, you no longer feel comfortable in that outfit no matter how expensive it is. You will insist to take out that outfit. For some,
it might take some time to accept it, while some will know the truth and simply ignore it.

budaatum:

I followed the arguments right through and find the fact you actually have engaged with the text very highly refreshing.

A lot of people try to square the Trinity argument but never confess they don't quite get it. They spew what they have been told to believe without realising they are actually killing one aspect of that Trinity they are claiming to be an aspect of God.

[quote author=lovingJehovah post=62529053]my point is that using water turning into ice to depict Jesus turning into Jehovah is ludicrous. John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener".
You may want to say that the vine can turn into a gardener, so to speak. How indecorous that sounds to the ears alone.

John 15:1 did Jesus say he is a literal vine? The fact is that Jesus compared himself to a vine.
Jesus uses earthly things to teach heavenly things. You have no point
@ bold I never said Jesus turn into yahweh.

A ghost is the same as a spirit? May I know the Greek word for ghost?
This is derailing the truth slightly. The Bible never spoke of holy ghost. Just in case you need a definition of ghost, I will copy and paste it here below:
Ghost: "an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living, typically as a nebulous image".
FYI, the Bible only spoke about the Holy spirit and not the holy ghost. You KJV seems outdated. You may get a recent version to see the corrections made.

gladness and Joy are different words but mean the same.

The Bible does not support the trinity doctrine. It never taught that. The KJV made a heretic insertion of 1 John 5:7 and other Bible translations have exposed the heretics for what they are.

Trinity is 100% biblical if you want proof seek for it,instead of making an unfounded claim.

It would be a long ride for you to attempt to prove a non-existent doctrine.

this clearly shows you don't read yor bible on your own.

lovingJehovah:
can you explain how it is different?

do I.need to prove this man is the only creature created like God.

Peacefullove:


Explain please .

am waiting

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

This shows that the Spirit of man is different from animals.

Did we tell you that Jesus is a man? We have always told you that he is a spirit creature living in heaven. He is a creation as Colossians 1:15 tells you. check it in your own Bible. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 says that there are gods in heaven but only one is the ONLY TRUE GOD John 17:3. Jesus said in John 10:27 that his sheep will hear his voice. Then in his own voice (the one that his sheep hears) he said the words in John 20:17 that his God is also our God. Are you his sheep? Do you hear his voice at John 20:17?

solite3:
do I.need to prove this man is the only creature created like God.

Where is the upward? kindly explain
Because before Jesus came to the earth millions have died. John 3:13 Jesus said that he did not see them there before coming to the earth. So,
keep throwing more light and the Bible will not fail to keep catching up with you.

solite3:
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

This shows that the Spirit of man is different from animals.

solite3:

John 15:1 did Jesus say he is a literal vine? The fact is that Jesus compared himself to a vine.
Jesus uses earthly things to teach heavenly things. You have no point
@ bold I never said Jesus turn into yahweh.

So who is Jehovah and who is Jesus?

solite3:
gladness and Joy are different words but mean the same.

I asked you of the difference between spirit and Ghost you are telling me of gladness and joy. Are they comparable? Get a dictionary or spend some time with uncle Google.

solite3:
Trinity is 100% biblical if you want proof seek for it,instead of making an unfounded claim.

Show me the word Trinity in the scriptures. Show me where 3 in 1 is mentioned in the Bible. Show me where God-the-son in mentioned in the Bible. Show me were Jesus said, he, the father and the holy spirit are one. Tell me whose voice was heard when Jesus was on earth Matthew 3:17? John 8:18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." How many persons are there? 2! According to the law that Jehovah gave to the Israelites, 2 witnesses established a case not one. He as a separate person, and his father as a separate entity. And not the word there SENT ME. After mentioning two person he said SENT ME to indicate that one separate person who is in turn capable of standing as one witness is present.

solite3:
this clearly shows you don't read yor bible on your own.

Mr. Bible reader can you read out John 20:17 to us, please!
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Matthew 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

John 5:30
I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

John 20:21
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many so-called gods and lords), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

The heretic pagan Trinity doctrine just got bruised in the head.
The word of God must prevail. No matter how hard you twist it, it is written.

solite3:
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

This shows that the Spirit of man is different from animals.

Wetin u drink sef ?

It only asks a question based on the DIRECTION either up or down ... It did not say the spirit of both are different .

Do you know this same Ecclesiastes said both man and animals have Same ( one ) Spirit ?

[quote author=lovingJehovah post=62869188]Did we tell you that Jesus is a man? We have always told you that he is a spirit creature living in heaven.

Are you saying Jesus didn't resurrect from the grave? Jesus said the Jews destroy his temple but he will raise it up on third day as he lying?

He is a creation as Colossians 1:15 tells you. check it in your own Bible.

how does Colossians 1:15 tell you Jesus was a creation? Who created Jesus? Did your bible not tell you that there is nothing that was created that was created without Jesus.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 says that there are gods in heaven but only one is the ONLY TRUE GOD John 17:3. Jesus said in John 10:27 that his sheep will hear his voice. Then in his own voice (the one that his sheep hears) he said the words in John 20:17 that his God is also our God. Are you his sheep? Do you hear his voice at John 20:17?

Jesus is not a man? This is a the Spirit of Antichrist.
What is a this?1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I don't know whose.voice.you answered, certainly not the Lord Jesus' voice

Which gods are in heaven?
If the Father is truly God,what does that make the Son?

lovingJehovah:
Where is the upward? kindly explain
Because before Jesus came to the earth millions have died. John 3:13 Jesus said that he did not see them there before coming to the earth. So,
keep throwing more light and the Bible will not fail to keep catching up with you.

if the Spirit of man and beast are the same then day would go to the same place.

Peacefullove:


Wetin u drink sef ?

It only asks a question based on the DIRECTION either up or down ... It did not say the spirit of both are different .

Do you know this same Ecclesiastes said both man and animals have Same ( one ) Spirit ?

I guess you drank something. Please show me the place? If the Spirit of man and beast are the same will they not go the same way.

solite3:
if the Spirit of man and beast are the same then day would go to the same place.

You made a statement and I asked for clarification. You said that the spirit of man goes upward. So, tell me the location. Where is the upward or where is the place?

solite3:

Are you saying Jesus didn't resurrect from the grave? Jesus said the Jews destroy his temple but he will raise it up on third day as he lying?

Undoubtedly, Jesus made that comment but that was not my question to you. "Did we tell you that Jesus is a man? ." The emboldened was my question. Jesus was a spirit creature before coming to the earth and he is now a spirit creature in heaven. This is what we have always preached. Have we told you otherwise?

solite3:

how does Colossians 1:15 tell you Jesus was a creation? Who created Jesus? Did your bible not tell you that there is nothing that was created that was created without Jesus.

Fine question! Colossians 1:15 said that he is the firstborn of all creation. Do you know the definition of firstborn? I think that I should do word breakage for you to understand the word better. FIRST-BORN; First to be born; first fruit etc. Is there a born there? Born is to produce, to bring to life, to bring to existence, to create, to build etc.
Now hear it straight from Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
Jesus was referred to as a master worker who learned by Jehovah's side. If he wasn't created why did he have to learn?

solite3:

Jesus is not a man? This is a the Spirit of Antichrist.
What is a this?1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I don't know whose.voice.you answered, certainly not the Lord Jesus' voice

Whose voice do you yourself hear? If it is that of Jesus, then why can't you hear his voice in John 20:17 and John 17:3?
I can't decipher the emboldened above?
You are asking me what 1 Timothy 2:5 is? Are you for real?

solite3:

Which gods are in heaven?
If the Father is truly God,what does that make the Son?

The son becomes the son of God. 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.
After reading the above verse, would you say that God lives in you? If you say that, do you acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God and not Almighty God or God the son?
The Bible told you that there are many gods in heaven but to Jesus, to the first century Christians and Jehovah's witnesses, there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and he is Jehovah. I do not know about you.

lovingJehovah:
John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

Are we not literally calling him a liar by calling him God or coequal? He calls Jehovah the ONLY TRUE GOD (ONLY). If he himself could make such strong and affirmative statement, then who are we to deify him or to make him God or God's coequal?

In John 17:21 "May they also be in us..." Does it mean that we are also God's coequal? Give me a break!

1 Corinthians 11:3 "...the head of Christ is God". Does it mean that the woman and the man are coequal? Does it mean that the man and
Christ are coequal?

Matthew 24:36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father".
This alone is a clear distinction between the two. They are one just as he compared the man to the woman and the man to himself. In ONE family there is the man who is placed above the woman; Jehovah and Jesus also are one in purpose as John 5:30 clearly states.

The Bible is a story book based on the origin n religion of Hebrews.

Okay. What book do you recommend to us?

PrecisionFx:


The Bible is a story book based on the origin n religion of Hebrews.

There are/were many Gods that mankind has worshiped and are still worshiping. I agree with the poster who commented that GOD is a title and he is absolutely correct.
I serve The MOST HIGH (YAHWEH) he is the ALPHA and the OMEGA.

lovingJehovah:
Okay. What book do you recommend to us?

It depends on where u come from.

I am a Igbo man and I believe in the Gods of my ancestors. U should believe ur own God's as well, U can't continue worshiping Caucasian Gods.

I am Igbo. Can you recommend a book to me?

PrecisionFx:

It depends on where u come from.
I am a Igbo man and I believe in the Gods of my ancestors. U should believe ur own God's as well, U can't continue worshiping Caucasian Gods.

lovingJehovah:
You made a statement and I asked for clarification. You said that the spirit of man goes upward. So, tell me the location. Where is the upward or where is the place?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yeah, I know the scripture but I am asking you to explain. Where does it go, to heaven or inside of God?

solite3:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

[quote author=lovingJehovah post=62890804]
Undoubtedly, Jesus made that comment but that was not my question to you. "Did we tell you that Jesus is a man? ." The emboldened was my question. Jesus was a spirit creature before coming to the earth and he is now a spirit creature in heaven. This is what we have always preached. Have we told you otherwise?

ccourse you deny the humanity of christ hence contradicting the bible. You are making a bogus statements.
The bible said there is one mediator between God and man that is the man Jesus.
Not the spirit creature


]

Fine question! Colossians 1:15 said that he is the firstborn of all creation. Do you know the definition of firstborn? I think that I should do word breakage for you to understand the word better. FIRST-BORN; First to be born; first fruit etc. Is there a born there? Born is to produce, to bring to life, to bring to existence, to create, to build etc.
Now hear it straight from Jesus in Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
Jesus was referred to as a master worker who learned by Jehovah's side. If he wasn't created why did he have to learn?

trash forcing your interpretation on the bible is your trade mark. Let me enlighten you on the word 'firstborn'

The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10). God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ (Hebrews 1:2-4).

Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos" signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership.

Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.

Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27).

Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.

Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

In the bible first born do mean rank for example,although Manasseh was Joseph firstborn but God chooses Ephraim to be his firstborn.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Also in psalm 89 King David was declared God's first born king. Does it mean David was the first king? Certainly not, even in Israel David was not the first king.
The firstborn in the bible can mean the most exalted one.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Jesus was exalted far above all principality and power.

Whose voice do you yourself hear? If it is that of Jesus, then why can't you hear his voice in John 20:17 and John 17:3?
I can't decipher the emboldened above?
You are asking me what 1 Timothy 2:5 is? Are you for real?

do you agree with 1 Timothy 2:5?

The son becomes the son of God. 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.
After reading the above verse, would you say that God lives in you? If you say that, do you acknowledge that Jesus is the son of God and not Almighty God or God the son?
The Bible told you that there are many gods in heaven but to Jesus, to the first century Christians and Jehovah's witnesses, there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and he is Jehovah. I do not know about you.

u didn't address my question. So if the Father is truly God what does that make the Son? Can the son of a lion be a goat?

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

lovingJehovah:
Yeah, I know the scripture but I am asking you to explain. Where does it go, to heaven or inside of God?

what do you want me to explain again? Where does God reside

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

After death comes judgment.
From these verses it is clear after death man return back to God for Judgment

lovingJehovah:
I am Igbo. Can you recommend a book to me?

U aren't igbo. Cuz if u were U would know that on average We do not worship our Gods through any holy book, We have a relationship with God on a personal house to house note.

Apart from that, Igbos older religion is Judaism.

Wow! I am surprised at you. Why did you deny that I am Igbo when you don't even know me in person? E nwere ihe eji ama onye Igbo na Nairaland? Open up and recommend a book that I should read. From what book was the file that you inserted in your message taken out?
If the earliest religion of the Igbos were Judaism, can it be matched with the Jews of today or the Jews of the Bible?

PrecisionFx:

U aren't igbo. Cuz if u were U would know that on average We do not worship our Gods through any holy book, We have a relationship with God on a personal house to house note.

Apart from that, Igbos older religion is Judaism.

what do you want me to explain again?
I want you to explain where they go for real. David, Moses, Daniel etc all died before Jesus came yet Jesus said in John 3:13 that he did not see them there. So, tell me where really they went since Jesus who you claim as your God said that he did not see them from where he came.
Where does God reside
God resides in heaven.
But let me ask you, at the time Jesus was on earth where did your God reside?
From these verses it is clear after death man return back to God for Judgment
So everyone who dies go to heaven? I mean, literally go into heaven to God?

solite3:
what do you want me to explain again? Where does God reside
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After death comes judgment.
From these verses it is clear after death man return back to God for Judgment

solite3:
I guess you drank something. Please show me the place? If the Spirit of man and beast are the same will they not go the same way .

You don't know what are talking about, The passage was a ( ?) Who knows . Not a direct statement .

Besides, here is the proof that they are the same .

"As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same Spirit [a]; humans have no advantage over animals. " Ecc 3 vs 19

solite3:

ccourse you deny the humanity of christ hence contradicting the bible. You are making a bogus statements.
The bible said there is one mediator between God and man that is the man Jesus.
Not the spirit creature

Cool. So when you quoted Jesus saying that he and his father are one, were you referring to the man or the spirit?

solite3:
trash forcing your interpretation on the bible is your trade mark. Let me enlighten you on the word 'firstborn'

The description "first-born of all creation" speaks of Christ’s preexistence. He is not a creature but the eternal Creator (John 1:10). God created the world through Christ and redeemed the world through Christ (Hebrews 1:2-4).

Note that Jesus is called the first-born, not the first-created. The word "first-born" (Greek word "prototokos"wink signifies priority. In the culture of the Ancient Near East, the first-born was not necessarily the oldest child. First-born referred not to birth order but to rank. The first-born possessed the inheritance and leadership.

You just made a caricature of yourself. Bro, stop making yourself a laughingstock.

solite3:
Therefore, the phrase expresses Christ's sovereignty over creation. After resurrecting Jesus from the dead, God gave Him authority over the Earth (Matthew 28:18).

Read what you wrote in the emboldened above

solite3:
Jesus created the world, saved the world, and rules the world. He is the self-existent, acknowledged Head of creation.

Finally, the phrase recognizes Him as the Messiah: "I will make Him [Christ] My first-born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Psalm 89:27).

Six times the Lord Jesus is declared to be the first-born of God (see Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:15, 18; Hebrews 1:6; 12:23; Revelation 1:5). These passages declare the preexistence, the sovereignty, and the redemption that Christ offers.

Thus, the phrase "first-born of all creation" proclaims Christ’s preeminence. As the eternal Son of God, He created the universe. He is the Ruler of creation!

Hahahaha Ludicrous! You must be so exhausted by now. The trinity is like a lie told upon a lie that needs another lie to save the first lie that was told. You listed more proofs to expose your heresy. Did you actually read before posting stuff? Firstborn was stated in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures.

solite3:
In the bible first born do mean rank for example,although Manasseh was Joseph firstborn but God chooses Ephraim to be his firstborn.

Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Also in psalm 89 King David was declared God's first born king. Does it mean David was the first king? Certainly not, even in Israel David was not the first king.
The firstborn in the bible can mean the most exalted one.

Fallacious! A heap of heresy. In all cases as you have presented, if it is rank, then someone gave him the rank; if it is exalted one, someone exalted that one. In all the firstborns that you mentioned, was any one of them compared to God as equal?

solite3:
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God [/b]also hath [b]highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Jesus was exalted far above all principality and power.

Read the emboldened above.

solite3:
do you agree with 1 Timothy 2:5?

Positive

solite3:
u didn't address my question. So if the Father is truly God what does that make the Son?

Son of God; Jesus; The Christ.

solite3:
Can the son of a lion be a goat?

No, a cub.

solite3:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 14:28 The father is greater than I.
John 14 was spoken after John 10.
John 5:30 I do nothing of my own initiative, but the will of the father.
Luke 22:42 Let not MY WILL be done but YOURS.

lovingJehovah:
Wow! I am surprised at you. Why did you deny that I am Igbo when you don't even know me in person? E nwere ihe eji ama onye Igbo na Nairaland? Open up and recommend a book that I should read. From what book was the file that you inserted in your message taken out?
If the earliest religion of the Igbos were Judaism, can it be matched with the Jews of today or the Jews of the Bible?

Not everyone that speaks igbo language are igbos, I know a good number of them Here in 042.



Check well, I already given u a book to read. The Jews who live in Israel today are Europeans, Caucasian and have no form of connection with Bible Hebrews.

The extract that i sent u came from Cambridge university website, U can download articles from there.

You are digressing without giving me quantifiable answers. I do not live in 042 and I am Igbo. Tell me the book that you recommend to read. Are the Jews that you are referring to the ones currently in Israel or the ones that were recorded in the Bible? When did the Igbo tribe come to be?

PrecisionFx:

Not everyone that speaks igbo language are igbos, I know a good number of them Here in 042.
Check well, I already given u a book to read. The Jews who live in Israel today are Europeans, Caucasian and have no form of connection with Bible Hebrews.
The extract that i sent u came from Cambridge university website, U can download articles from there.

lovingJehovah:
You are digressing without giving me quantifiable answers. I do not live in 042 and I am Igbo. Tell me the book that you recommend to read. Are the Jews that you are referring to the ones currently in Israel or the ones that were recorded in the Bible? When did the Igbo tribe come to be?

I do not care if u refuse to read the book I have told u to read... .

Secondly I have already told u that the people living in Israel today are Caucasians, Do I need a monday hammer n Chisel to drill it into ur sense .

""? When did the Igbo tribe come to be?

This is unreadable to me, Rephrase.