awesomeJ:
First he didn't mention that he prayed in the instance of the first wife.

Even if he did, we don't claim as christians that every prayer gets answered.

I know you also have reasons which explain why the third testimony is also purely of luck. please share those reasons. I have an interest in seeing just how good you are at twisting super obvious facts around.

awesomeJ:
And about a Muslim sharing that with me. I'll definitely believe him if he said he experienced it, but I won't change to Islam because I'm not even religious to begin with. I live by Faith, it's a different experience from being religious-at least by my definition.
So I'll believe the guy, because he is the one who experienced it, so it defies logic for me to try redefining someone's experience to them. I'll simply attribute it to God's love and mercies. Cos contrary to your belief,it's only your sin God hates, he not only likes you, he actually love you more than your parents or spouse do.

Or I could just attribute it to something about the workings of God that I am yet to learn.

[b]Ihear people talk about their experience of seeing reincarnated dead people. I don't believe in that, and my disbelief in it is founded on the scripture that says "it is only appointed for man to die once". [/b]But since I'm not high I don't disbelief the experience they state, neither do I try convincing them that they didn't see what they claimed. Rather I just think it's either a demon puts on the appearance of such dead folks, or there's still a phenomenon that I'm yet to understand. I think this is a better approach to worldview than trying to convince folks who describe their experience of the supernatural against their own sharp mental records solely because spirituality doesn't exist I. your world, and so it musn't in anyone else's.

darkchild64:


the proof that we can not deny is a regrown limb,show us a video of an amputee getting a new limb and you win your argument

Seun:

Pentecostal Christians pray about almost everything in their lives. There is no way that he didn’t pray for his wife to deliver the baby safely.


If just 5% of prayers got answered, pentecostal Christians would be doing so well that most atheists would quickly convert to Christianity.


I will do that when you tell us whether or not you would convert to Islam if a Muslim gave almost identical testimonies as evidence for Islam.

Seun:

Pentecostal Christians pray about almost everything in their lives. There is no way that he didn’t pray for his wife to deliver the baby safely.


If just 5% of prayers got answered, pentecostal Christians would be doing so well that most atheists would quickly convert to Christianity.


I will do that when you tell us whether or not you would convert to Islam if a Muslim gave almost identical testimonies as evidence for Islam.

darkchild64:
And seun asked a question you refused to answer IF A MUSLIM TOLD THESE STORIES,ONLY THIS TIME REPLACING CHURCH WITH MOSQUE AND USING ALLAH FOR GOD WOULD YOU CONVERT TO ISLAM
ANSWER : YES/NO

No need to address this question I have seen ur reply,and since ur won't become a Muslim because of those stories how do you expect us to become Christians

Seun:

Here’s the problem with testimonies. They suffer from selection bias. When people experience bad luck, they don’t give testimonies, but when they experience good luck, they give testimonies. That gives listeners the impression that more good things are happening to the brethren.

If you told us the story of your life, mentioning only the positive things you have experienced, we would be envious of your good fortune.
However, if you mentioned only your negative experiences, we would think you were the most pathetic loser in the world. See what I mean?


The urge to pray in a church and cry to God was not mysterious. It is normal for a Christian who thinks his wife will die to do such things.

The successful delivery of his second wife was to be expected, since most deliveries are successful. The fact that he lost his first wife and child in childbirth makes the story even less impressive to me, because he would have taken more precautions e.g. getting her admitted at a better hospital. It also made me wonder why his miracle-working God didn’t answer his prayers when his first wife and child died on the same day.

The fact that both wives had difficult deliveries may be a coincidence. It may also be that he is a large man attracted to small-sized women.

Suppose a Muslim told you the same story you just told us, only replacing words like ‘church’ with ‘mosque’, etc. Would you convert to Islam?

awesomeJ:


He also didn't say whether or not he was a Christian at the time. Remember I mentioned today was his first day in our church, and he didn't quite look religious. He might have been an unbeliever.

Now check out this argument, and tell me what you think of its proponent:

Pentecostal Christians pray about everything,
Therefore a man who shared a testimony in a Pentecostal church prayed about all his past experience.

On the Islam stuff, I already gave my answer, check page 1. Your turn now.

wirinet:


Oga Seun, the OP's undeniable proof is a sort of anti climax, we were expecting some brilliant and intellectual arguments, but all he presented were unverifiable, incoherent and unreliable testimonies. We have heard many incredulous and stupid testimonies, we recently heard a testimony of someone who by simply putting a sticker on her gas cylinders never needing to ever buy gas again. We have heard testimony of someone driving from Lagos to abuja on 1 litre of fuel. Just enter the nearest redeem or winners church on any given Sunday and you would hear tens of incredulous and stupid testimonies.

The OP talks as if atheists do not deliver babies safely or that only prayers to the Christian God ensures safe delivery or even pregnancy. The reason safe delivery is such a big deal in Nigeria that requires fasting and prayers is because we have about the worst infant mortality rate in the world. If the so called testimony giver was living in majority atheist but efficient country like Norway, Sweden, Holland or even China, I am certain he would not have lost his first wife and child.

The OP talks about malfunctioning ovaries? Abeg, doctors in the house, what does that mean? All the eggs the Overies will produce are already present at birth. So is the OP saying the ovaries were not releasing the eggs or they were no eggs in the ovaries. Was the lady seeing her period before with the "malfunctioning" ovaries or not.
It seems most of these testimonies are in competition to see the most stupid and incredulous.

Finally, testimonies can never proof the existence of Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammed, Visnu or any other God.

awesomeJ:

You're welcome. But I don't even have an argument, talk less of wanting a win. In case, you're not clear about the thread's purpose. It's to get someone specific to sign up for an experience whose terms we'll both agree on beforehand, that will give him a super strong proof for the existence of God.

However, if you want this limb proof so bad. Get a US visa on your passport and go visit Pastor Keith Moore in Brandon Missouri. Tell him you want to be a student in his healing school for 1 year. Now while most healings that'll take place there wouldn't appear extraordinary, because God is not a magician, and it would be demeaning to his personality to try impress you. But I guarantee to 100% that if you make it to every session, you'll see 1 or 2 0r 3 or more of spectacular and extraordinary healing experience on a scale of a regrown amputated limb, before you complete your stay.

darkchild64:


What of when the bible said that Saul consulted a medium and she made the dead Samuel reappear abi u never see am for ur bible

awesomeJ:

Of course I have seen that. But the Bible didn't say it was really Samuel that appeared. Whatever that medium saw could have been a spirit from God or the devil. Have you found in the Bible where a spirit went out from God's presence in heaven to be a lying spirit in the mouth of a prophet who would prophesy to a king so that he would be led to his death? Spiritual things are deep. Understand their crusts first before you try an approach to the core.

awesomeJ:

Even though I'd love to see you saved, I never said I expected you to be.

wirinet:


Oga Seun, the OP's undeniable proof is a sort of anti climax, we were expecting some brilliant and intellectual arguments, but all he presented were unverifiable, incoherent and unreliable testimonies. We have heard many incredulous and stupid testimonies, we recently heard a testimony of someone who by simply putting a sticker on her gas cylinders never needing to ever buy gas again. We have heard testimony of someone driving from Lagos to abuja on 1 litre of fuel. Just enter the nearest redeem or winners church on any given Sunday and you would hear tens of incredulous and stupid testimonies.

The OP talks as if atheists do not deliver babies safely or that only prayers to the Christian God ensures safe delivery or even pregnancy. The reason safe delivery is such a big deal in Nigeria that requires fasting and prayers is because we have about the worst infant mortality rate in the world. If the so called testimony giver was living in majority atheist but efficient country like Norway, Sweden, Holland or even China, I am certain he would not have lost his first wife and child.

The OP talks about malfunctioning ovaries? Abeg, doctors in the house, what does that mean? All the eggs the Overies will produce are already present at birth. So is the OP saying the ovaries were not releasing the eggs or they were no eggs in the ovaries. Was the lady seeing her period before with the "malfunctioning" ovaries or not.
It seems most of these testimonies are in competition to see the most stupid and incredulous.

Finally, testimonies can never proof the existence of Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammed, Visnu or any other God.

Butterflyl10n:


Your whole comment falls flat because the OP did not say he wanted to present arguments. He offered seun a chance to have a personal experience. An experience he can verify and which would not be biased or influenced by the OP.

Read the OP again and amend your comment.

wirinet:


. The reason safe delivery is such a big deal in Nigeria that requires fasting and prayers is because we have about the worst infant mortality rate in the world. If the so called testimony giver was living in majority atheist but efficient country like Norway, Sweden, Holland or even China, I am certain he would not have lost his first wife and child.

awesomeJ:

Why not tell that to Ben Carson. Best paediatric neurosurgeon on the planet at the time. Worked in one of the most renowned hospitals in the world. Yet lost his first baby/babies to pregnancy complications days before the first ever surgery for Siamese separation.
It was for lack of good healthcare right?

awesomeJ:

Why not tell that to Ben Carson. Best paediatric neurosurgeon on the planet at the time. Worked in one of the most renowned hospitals in the world. Yet lost his first baby/babies to pregnancy complications days before the first ever surgery for Siamese separation.
It was for lack of good healthcare right?

awesomeJ post[quote author=awesomeJ:
And about a Muslim sharing that with me. I'll definitely believe him if he said he experienced it, but I won't change to Islam because I'm not even religious to begin with. I live by Faith, it's a different experience from being religious-at least by my definition.

awesomeJ:

Of course I have seen that. But the Bible didn't say it was really Samuel that appeared. Whatever that medium saw could have been a spirit from God or the devil. Have you found in the Bible where a spirit went out from God's presence in heaven to be a lying spirit in the mouth of a prophet who would prophesy to a king so that he would be led to his death? Spiritual things are deep. Understand their crusts first before you try an approach to the core.

Butterflyl10n:


Don't turn this into an argument bro and forget the purpose behind your thread. They wish to turn this into an argument which is simply type and send via nairaland while you offered an experience.

Stop engaging them in arguments and stick with your experience offer. I believe it still stands.

Suddenly now seun is eager to type responses and shift you from your focus. Stop falling for his / their games. (after all he called your experience offer a game too)

Take him serious when he reciprocates respect by taking you serious.

awesomeJ:

Well, dear brother, the focus is still very clearly defined. I definitely haven't argued and I won't- that's based on my definition of argument.
I am only trying so share some knowledge with folks to see who picks what. I wouldn't force my opinion on anyone.
When Jesus took time to reply the pharisees despite their palpable sarcasm, he surely wasn't arguing with them. Rather he said things that his disciples of that time learnt from, and which we of now, and those to com, will learn from.
Hope you had a great worship time today.

Seun:

I understand that you won’t convert to Islam, which, as darkchild64 said, begs the question of why you think that people ought to accept these testimonies as evidence that Christianity is true. Sadly, I don’t understand the reason you gave. Can you explain it more clearly?

awesomeJ:

Why not tell that to Ben Carson. Best paediatric neurosurgeon on the planet at the time. Worked in one of the most renowned hospitals in the world. Yet lost his first baby/babies to pregnancy complications days before the first ever surgery for Siamese separation.
It was for lack of good healthcare right?

Nigeria has third highest infant mortality rate in the world – WHO

Nearly ten per cent of new-born deaths in the world last year occurred in Nigeria, a new report by the United Nations Children Fund, UNICEF, has revealed.

According to the report, five countries accounted for half of all new-born deaths last year, with Nigeria third in the list. These are India (24 per cent), Pakistan (10 per cent), Nigeria (9 per cent), the Democratic Republic of the Congo (4 per cent) and Ethiopia (3 per cent). Most new-born deaths occurred in two regions: Southern Asia (39 per cent) and sub-Saharan Africa (38 per cent).
https://www.google.com.ng/amp/s/www.premiumtimesng.com/news/headlines/246720-nigeria-third-highest-infant-mortality-rate-world.html/amp

LightSpirit:
ONCE UPON A TIME, two explorers came to a clearing in the jungle. It was a beautiful place -- thousands and thousands of flowers were blossoming. One of the explorers said, "There must be a gardener tending these flowers, looking after this plot." He was a believer.
The other disagreed and said, "I don't see any gardener here. I don't even see anybody's footprints. And there seems to be no point in making such a beautiful garden in such a dense and deep forest. Who will come to look? Who will enjoy these flowers? Nobody ever passes by. No, there is no gardener. The whole garden is just an accident."

e.

LightSpirit:
...

Fulfillment comes only when you have fulfilled a certain destiny that you were carrying, that was coded within you, that was deep in your blueprint. Unless you have become that for which you were made -- unless you have attained to being -- you will never be fulfilled. Fulfillment is peace, fulfillment is bliss, fulfillment is contentment. And only a fulfilled heart can pray, because only a fulfilled heart can be grateful and can feel the grace descending: the spirit of God, like a dove.