OtemAtum:


DESCRIBE ABOVE AFTER SPENDING TIME IN CHURCH ACTIVITIES, THEN I WILL HAVE NO REASON BELIEVING THAT IT IS THE WORK OF A god(Yahweh).

But if it is 2 or 3 out of the fifty of them, then it has nothing to do with any god, but the capability and the personalities of those people.

Now you pass brilliantly, and you attribute it to your nature and reading pattern which I don't dispute at all.

But since I actually was that brother a couple of years ago, I am saying, the reason for my good success that semester was God's influence. Do you think you need to dispute that?

I didn't state the experience to demonstrate a Christian formula for success. I only wanted to counter your argument of saying success has nothing to do with spirituality. So that experience of mine confirms to at least myself that your argument doesn't hold.

However like I said, it's not a success formula, so it won't work at all times for every one. if it would, I would have had that same excellence all through. But it's an experience that has well demonstrated to me that a spiritual influence can pretty much effect success.

awesomeJ:

Now you pass brilliantly, and you attribute it to your nature and reading pattern which I don't dispute at all.

But since I actually was that brother a couple of years ago, I am saying, the reason for my good success that semester was God's influence. Do you think you need to dispute that?

I didn't state the experience to demonstrate a Christian formula for success. I only wanted to counter your argument of saying success has nothing to do with spirituality. So that experience of mine confirms to at least myself that your argument doesn't hold.

However like I said, it's not a success formula, so it won't work at all times for every one. if it would, I would have had that same excellence all through. But it's an experience that has well demonstrated to me that a spiritual influence can pretty much effect success.

Do you know how many times scientists carry out experiments before they establish it as a fact? That thing had to have happen to you for at least six times before it can be established as a fact. As a matter of fact, whether spirit influences success or not, I won't advocate such ideology because it breeds laziness. Let the spirits be helping themselves to succeed in their spiritual realms, we will succeed if we follow our own principles of success.
Pls don't teach your children to fast and pray for academic success o. Tell them to read their books and be in a good psychological frame of mind instead. Peace.

Soflex:


No doctor's effort as well, just the scientifically designed lamp. Yea, it may be special to you the same way phototherapy curing my child in 3 days was to me. agree with me.

You still don't get it. The phototherapy definitely qualifies as an effort from the docs, just as a prescription from them to use certain drugs qualifies as an effort on their part.

More importantly, the photo therapy is something that has either been proven or can be proven to always cure at least some forms of jaundice. These proofs would classify photo therapy as a natural means for cure.

But since same proofs can't be made for the olive oil and handkerchief in 3 hours, and there was no other efforts, then the healing was beyond a natural means, which is why you wouldn't even need to be a Christian to classify it as supernatural.

On your statement " I have been where you are"
First, you don't even know where I am. But I am super certain you were never where I am. How? Easy. Since where you were is a place from which you could plunge into faithlessness, then it certainly isn't where I am. Because the fundamentals of where I am are such that you'll have a higher chance of literally surviving as a human at the sun's core than you would of plunging into faithlessness- it's an utter impossibility.

To put things in another perspectives. Someone who was once the president of a local social club, but is now so broke that he can't afford his basic needs, says to another who is actually president of a nation such as Nigeria, he says to him out of ignorance "I have been in your position"
The latter will respond "sure you haven't" because he knows the very nature of office implies you can't be so broke as to be lacking basic needs because you receive entitlements throughout your lifetime after office.

greiboy:

On the other hand, humans constantly interact with spirits, and there is no empirical evidence to suggest that humans evolved from spirits. Except religion which you don't believe in

Thus, your logic doesn't track

You should have seen that I said that I HAVE SEEN INTO THE SPIRIT WORLD several times, yet I am not religious. Religion is a pseudo spiritual stuff, not the spirituality itself. That's why we have thousands of religion today, trying to play hide and seek with our lives. I don't need religion to see or interact with the spirit world. All I need is SCIENCE.

:

3) I brought up the spirituality because I wanted you to use logic and science to explain its existence, since you have countered another possible supernatural phenomenon with logic.

Now see how I will rationalise the spirituality for you; EXISTENCE(GOD) came with diverse realms and universes. One of the numerous universes is where the earth where we are is located. There are other realms in the universes where other beings like us or unlike us are. There are afterlives we go when we cease living on earth.

Read the DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH which I brought back from my spiritual journey for more details:



https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos/66#62568678

Tolktob:

A personal experience will do;I've seen lots of atheist confessing Jesus Christ at the tail end of their lives.

Jesus could not convince them in their youth?

segunojo866:
religion is harmful.
Stop going to church and paying tithes.

I still went to church today though: I love the simplicity of Jesus and true love/friendship the guy preaches. As par the tithe, I stopped paying a very long time ago before the era of free the sheeple when I discovered nearly a whole chapter on the actual acceptable ways of tithing in the bible which I never ever heard any of my pastors preached before (or after) except the dreadful Malachi 3 vs 8-10.

Tolktob:


They're aren't a true Christian in the first instance,they might be a professor and not a possessor.If they're truly a possessor there's nothing that can separate them from the love of God.

What if I told you those atheist you claimed you saw ain't true atheist? They are just Christians who disguised as atheist cos if they are truly atheists, nothing can make them confess any mythical Christ or God

awesomeJ:

To put things in another perspectives. Someone who was once the president of a local social club, but is now so broke that he can't afford his basic needs, says to another who is actually president of a nation such as Nigeria, he says to him out of ignorance "I have been in your position"
The latter will respond "sure you haven't" because he knows the very nature of office implies you can't be so broke as to be lacking basic needs because you receive entitlements throughout your lifetime after office.

I love this your analogy bro , I clearly understand and it cracked my up at the same time . Even if you don't see things from my angle, I see from yours: no need for further argument . Best of luck bringing lost sheep back into the fold .

OtemAtum:
You should have seen that I said that I HAVE SEEN INTO THE SPIRIT WORLD several times, yet I am not religious. Religion is a pseudo spiritual stuff, not the spirituality itself. That's why we have thousands of religion today, trying to play hide and seek with our lives. I don't need religion to see or interact with the spirit world. All I need is SCIENCE.

Now see how I will rationalise the spirituality for you; EXISTENCE(GOD) came with diverse realms and universes. One of the numerous universes is where the earth where we are is located. There are other realms in the universes where other beings like us or unlike us are. There are afterlives we go when we cease living on earth.

Read the DOCTUFOS OF TRUTH which I brought back from my spiritual journey for more details:



https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos/66#62568678

hmm

1)Religion is a pseudo spirit stuff , yet religion was the first school of thought to acknowledge spirits. Jesus called them demon, prophet Mohammed ( peace be upon him)called them the Djinn and so on. The only set of written empirical paper on spirituality are religious books. Thus,the earliest sets of people who interacted with spirits do so with religion, So what changed?

2) That your rationalization still doesn't prove anything, if spirits are supposedly on other universe, how do humans manage to interact with them? why haven't science been able to tap into the link to lead humanity forward? That beats logic ?

In addition, if I were to accept your arguments on realms and universe, doesn't that mean God (a leader of realms or just the leader of most advanced realm) can exist? or at least raises the possibility?

Tolktob:

A personal experience will do;I've seen lots of atheist confessing Jesus Christ at the tail end of their lives.

Liar.

Name five.

greiboy:
hmm

1)Religion is a pseudo spirit stuff , yet religion was the first school of thought to acknowledge spirits. Jesus called them demon, prophet Mohammed ( peace be upon him)called them the Djinn and so on. The only set of written empirical paper on spirituality are religious books. Thus,the earliest sets of people who interacted with spirits do so with religion, So what changed?

What religion actaully did was to mutilate spirituality and give you a false version of the truth. The religious founders know the actual truth but they created a lie for you so that it could keep you away from accessing the actual truth while they alone have access to the actual truth. That's exactly what the founders of Christianity, Islam, etc did to you guys.

:

2) That your rationalization still doesn't prove anything, if spirits are supposedly on other universe, how do humans manage to interact with them? why haven't science been able to tap into the link to lead humanity forward? That beats logic ?

Meditation is the key to interacting with spirit beings and meditation is scientific. Check online for scientific explanation of meditation, ASC, etc. Whoever meditates deeply, religious person or not, you tend to access the spiritual realms. Check astral projection, etc. So, religion is not a criteria to accessing the spiritual realms, it is simply by meditation and I do.

:
In addition, it I were to accept your arguments on realms and universe, doesn't that mean God (a leader of realms or just the leader of most advanced realm) can exist? or at least raises the possibility?

What you call God is not what GOD is. What you call God is one primitive, anthropomorphic being in the name Yahweh who lives in the cloud, or the sky. But that is not GOD. Rather, God is EXISTENCE and EXISTENCE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF EVERYTHING THAT IS.

You, I, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Vishnu, Mazda, etc are just a very little fragment of EXISTENCE (God) and none of us can claim the wholesomeness of God.

Deckline:

They won't believe. The bible says "The prince of this world has darkened the eyes of their understanding..."
Peter already foretold the coming of the scoffers.. Paul foretold the rebellion of men and the coming of the anti christ. These shouldn't amaze us as christians because we are already aware.
Its just a matter of time.

a matter of time before what happens,didn't the bible say that Jesus is coming SOON,now 2000 years has passed and he is still coming soon,abeg I don't want to abuse anybody or religion,allow us atheists to be

awesomeJ:
So I have had my NL account since Feb 29, 2016. This is only my 175th post, and the topic is my first ever.
Until I started following up your posts on religion, most of my post have been on the Investment section, and none on the Religion's.

I don't really think I can convince you against your atheism based solely on my replies to your post, so I intend using the first-ever thread of mine to present you with an evidence that should convince you strongly enough about spirituality and God's existence.

I hope to achieve this in less than 5 pages of the thread.

Attention: Seun seun.

Well I really don't think you can convince anyone that God exist, except God himself decides to. Also, even if human conviction can, I think it would be easier with those who have not passed through church, albeit, Pentecostal one.

The person under discussion grew up in a Pentecostal setting and the Pastor still maintain that modesty till date.

This is my opinion- rather than try to convince anyone of God's existence, pray God existence to be shown to such people.

Madness

awesomeJ:

Like I said, the evidence cannot be the kind of fact as science would require. This is not science, if you want evidence, it's gonna be an experience. How do you proof someone loves you, it's basically in your experience of their actions towards you.

Perhaps I should start with today's testimonies.

There were about 8 people in all who came out for testimonies in the second service. I will share 3 of them which I think you may be least skeptical about.

1. The first guy was driving in the estate on Mon Jan 29th, and as he drove past the church, he felt an urge within him if to just stop by the church to pray. So he went in, prayed his heart out, and didn't mind whoever else was there with him in the auditorium. Thereafter, he drove straight to the hospital where his wife had been since Sunday Jan 28th due to prolonged labour. About 2 hours after he arrived, the wife delivered safely.
This was a young smart-looking guy that you'd ordinarily not consider to be religious.
If that was all to the story, it wouldn't have moved much people.

Then he added this: "If you had not seen a terror before, you would wonder why people feared one"...sort of " exactly eight years ago, I got married to my first wife, and exactly 6 years ago, she was ready to deliver our first child, she had this same prolonged labour, and she and the baby were lost to it"

Turned out that was his first time in the Church. How would you convince such a person against Faith in God?

Only fools believe in miracles

The thread turned out to be a shameless disappointment in the end as usual. OP said he has evidence that will convince Seun, only for the OP to throw around 3 totally useless testimonies.

Christians and all religious people should pls allow their various Gods to talk or do things by themselves. Why is the OP the one trying to convince another person about the existence of a God? Why not allow the God to to that himself since the OP has totally failed at it?

darkchild64:


a matter of time before what happens,didn't the bible say that Jesus is coming SOON,now 2000 years has passed and he is still coming soon,abeg I don't want to abuse anybody or religion,allow us atheists to be

My dear,the difference between 2000 years and now is TIME. As a matter of fact,we may/may not be alive before he comes. The rapture is not a myth.
If you've chosen to be reprobate,then its your choice. You know what the apostle Peter wrote about christians who later deny their faith. It would have been better if they had never seen the truth,because your end will be more terrible than the actual umbeliever. You are like them that have seen the truth,you are like them that have seen and been in the light but you now deny the very truth,you now belong to the dark and now believe lies. No matter how smart or intelligent you atheists may think you are(I laugh at you though) the devil is wiser than you and he is deceiving you.
God is warning you.

wirinet:


Oga Seun, the OP's undeniable proof is a sort of anti climax, we were expecting some brilliant and intellectual arguments, but all he presented were unverifiable, incoherent and unreliable testimonies. We have heard many incredulous and stupid testimonies, we recently heard a testimony of someone who by simply putting a sticker on her gas cylinders never needing to ever buy gas again. We have heard testimony of someone driving from Lagos to abuja on 1 litre of fuel. Just enter the nearest redeem or winners church on any given Sunday and you would hear tens of incredulous and stupid testimonies.

The OP talks as if atheists do not deliver babies safely or that only prayers to the Christian God ensures safe delivery or even pregnancy. The reason safe delivery is such a big deal in Nigeria that requires fasting and prayers is because we have about the worst infant mortality rate in the world. If the so called testimony giver was living in majority atheist but efficient country like Norway, Sweden, Holland or even China, I am certain he would not have lost his first wife and child.

The OP talks about malfunctioning ovaries? Abeg, doctors in the house, what does that mean? All the eggs the Overies will produce are already present at birth. So is the OP saying the ovaries were not releasing the eggs or they were no eggs in the ovaries. Was the lady seeing her period before with the "malfunctioning" ovaries or not.
It seems most of these testimonies are in competition to see the most stupid and incredulous.

Finally, testimonies can never proof the existence of Yahweh, Jesus, Mohammed, Visnu or any other God.

sorry, wch of the Norway did u call an atheist nation? Is it the one with 75% Christian population dat had Christian study as a compulsory subject in its school until 1997 when d government decided to broaden the scope of the subject to accommodate other religion daf u called an atheist nation? U either do not know wat u r saying or u r jes a pathetic liar

Soflex:


I still went to church today though: I love the simplicity of Jesus and true love/friendship the guy preaches. As par the tithe, I stopped paying a very long time ago before the era of free the sheeple when I discovered nearly a whole chapter on the actual acceptable ways of tithing in the bible which I never ever heard any of my pastors preached before (or after) except the dreadful Malachi 3 vs 8-10.

Even if there was no requirement for tithe payment. How can you comfortably sit in a church knowing that other people but not you contribute to the running of the church. The gen in my church is perhaps 200MW or higher. Do you know how much it costs to run it for even 5 minutes? So I should just sit there and enjoy everything without making any contribution. I can't be that stingy bro. How much is 10% anyways?

chemystery:

What if I told you those atheist you claimed you saw ain't true atheist? They are just Christians who disguised as atheist cos if they are truly atheists, nothing can make them confess any mythical Christ or God

Lol. You must be a very wicked interrogator.


@OP
I'll just say somethings based on what I have learnt academically, socially and personally. I'm a Christian and so I'll speak as one, but I'm also a medical student

1) Science WILL continue to grow and dispel foolish practices and superstitious beliefs. This is a FACT!

2) Consistent prayer (Christian prayer) works. I've been healed of Angina Pectoris after prayers from a man of God. I have faith that my other health problem will be healed too in the future.

3) A lot of religious people are dubious and exaggerate things to make MOG look like a demi- god. I've seen this countless times and it doesn't surprise me. As Seun said earlier, People will give the details that make testimonies more attractive and leave the gory ones out.

4) If you are a Christian, I mean a real one, not a Social Media Christian or Sunday Christian, you will do very well to Focus on the INSTRUCTIONS of the New Testament and practice them. Don't be carried away by MOGs and Mega churches. Know the Word for yourself and By yourself.

5)You are ultimately responsible for what you believe and as such, will live with the products of that belief whether good or bad. Eg if you believe that Sickness is caused by demons and you have a child sick with botulism and you start praying for him/her, pls know that you are not helping the child. He needs medical attention ASAP


6) I have been able to link religious obsession with inadequate education. Education can be on anything or any aspect of life. Eg If you believe that God can make you rich through prayer alone, you are on a long thing. You must find out means of making stable income, be ready to work, know how to attract customers/clients and have good inter-personal relationship and communication skills . These don't come just by prayer but by proper knowledge of how things are done.

DeSepiero:


Jesus could not convince them in their youth?

You still have the wrong idea of whom Jesus is. Dangote as an employer can only offer you a good job. The offer is "anyone who believes i am the largest African cement maker should come to the factory and pick up a job". You will have to believe in the realness of the job, and then accept it before it helps you out of unemployment. It may take you years to eventually realize the offer is real but that doesn't mean Dangote ever wanted to convince you on the realness of the offer or that it took him so long to convince you.

darkchild64:


a matter of time before what happens,didn't the bible say that Jesus is coming SOON,now 2000 years has passed and he is still coming soon,abeg I don't want to abuse anybody or religion,allow us atheists to be

"Soon" is a relative term.
When you were 15, 5 years would seem longer to you than it does now that you're older. How much more for God whose age is more than a trillion quadrillion years. If he says soon, that's cos it's soon to Him, may not necessarily be to us.

OtemAtum:
What religion actaully did was to mutilate spirituality and give you a false version of the truth. The religious founders know the actual truth but they created a lie for you so that it could keep you away from accessing the actual truth while they alone have access to the actual truth. That's exactly what the founders of Christianity, Islam, etc did to you guys.

Meditation is the key to interacting with spirit beings and meditation is scientific. Check online for scientific explanation of meditation, ASC, etc. Whoever meditates deeply, religious person or not, you tend to access the spiritual realms. Check astral projection, etc. So, religion is not a criteria to accessing the spiritual realms, it is simply by meditation and I do.

What you call God is not what GOD is. What you call God is one primitive, anthropomorphic being in the name Yahweh who lives in the cloud, or the sky. But that is not GOD. Rather, God is EXISTENCE and EXISTENCE IS THE SUM TOTAL OF EVERYTHING THAT IS.

You, I, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Vishnu, Mazda, etc are just a very little fragment of EXISTENCE (God) and none of us can claim the wholesomeness of God.

1) So if the religions kept the truth about spirits away from humanity and it is only where we can find any empirical evidence on sprits, where have you find this your new revelations on spirits? How did you find the "truth" according you?

3) Meditation is scientifically proven, but it hasn't been scientifically proven no to guide us into the spirit world. I believe it is used to remember events about our past and clear our minds. The only set of people who believed meditation can be used to enter the spirit world are religious Hindu or other religion from the east. There is no scientific evidence of astral projection, the claims of a scientific evidence of astral projection are pseudo scientific

3) If religious God is a made up accident concept who lives in sky according to you, spirits can just be a made up concept of our imagination too, since both spirits and God are supernatural. in fact, most religions believe God to be a spirit too. Christians call him the" holy" spirit

if God is everything, then who is the leader of everything? Who was the first creature or entity to exist? Could the entity or being be God ?

@awesomeJ, can you post the final evidence that you have? The one that you consider to be personal to me? The most powerful one? Thanks.

omogidi234:



Well I really don't think you can convince anyone that God exist, except God himself decides to. Also, even if human conviction can, I think it would be easier with those who have not passed through church, albeit, Pentecostal one.

The person under discussion grew up in a Pentecostal setting and the Pastor still maintain that modesty till date.

This is my opinion- rather than try to convince anyone of God's existence, pray God existence to be shown to such people.

If you went on social media, screaming "Dangote is the poorest African". Do you think he will even care to find out whom you are , talk less of trying to convince you he is not poor.
So why do you think some people's ..... should make God wanna reveal Himself to convince them. Whom do you take him for?

As Christians, we don't try to convince anyone. All we do is share the knowledge of the Gospel with people, and it's entirely up to them to accept or reject. There's no force in it. God wouldn't force anyone. If he wanted to, he'd have made us like robots without our own will power.

Try to read the thread well. There is no part where I have said I wanted to convince anyone.

Seun:
@awesomeJ, can you post the final evidence that you have? The one that you consider to be personal to me? The most powerful one? Thanks.

I have one though, where God himself speaks through an individual at a church.

I can give you the address if you want to come find out for yourself.

Seun:
@awesomeJ, can you post the final evidence that you have? The one that you consider to be personal to me? The most powerful one? Thanks.

Not anymore. The time passed.
I was gonna make a decree on something that'll happen to you within a timeframe, and we'd have both agreed on the details of the circumstance. I would then have made the decree, and you would have experienced it. And that would have demonstrated to you that the supernatural exists. Because it would have been such forces that would have gone out to work out the manifestation of the decree, God having established it.

It would have surely worked as have several others I have made.

But why you didn't sign up for it yesterday is what I still don't understand. Now it's late already.
And before you start questioning why it can't be done at just any time, you should know like I have said that there are principles which govern things including spiritual things, and they must be rightly applied.

I WAITED TILL about 10:45pm last night. Deal would be off by 12:00am. I didn't have to mention that to you. it wasn't necessary.
So since something undefined to me kept you from picking up the challenge, I figure, God must have decided to save you a ton of troubles.

Not to worry though. Just one of these days. Could be years from now, when the atmosphere is right as it really was yesterday for me to present YOU another proof I will.

SO THIS THREAD IS OFFICIALLY OVER.

We'll continue the conversation on those other threads you make comments on.

Have a great week. God bless you.

awesomeJ:



If you went on social media, screaming "Dangote is the poorest African". Do you think he will even care to find out whom you are , talk less of trying to convince you he is not poor.
So why do you think some people's ..... should make God wanna reveal Himself to convince them. Whom do you take him for?

As Christians, we don't try to convince anyone. All we do is share the knowledge of the Gospel with people, and it's entirely up to them to accept or reject. There's no force in it. God wouldn't force anyone. If he wanted to, he'd have made us like robots without our own will power.

Try to read the thread well. There is no part where I have said I wanted to convince anyone.

Forgive me if I misquoted you, however, giving proofs seem to me as a way of convincing someone to accept a position.

In addition, I have not said that God is bound to convince anyone of His existence because He is not bound to do so. He can determine what to do and not you. That's the literal meaning of my position.

Interesting

_