₦airaland Forum

butterflyl1on:
The "Love" as it were was weak because it was of the law. Jesus said I did not come to abolish the law but to FULFIL it.

His comment shows that NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO KEEP THE LAW due to the fact that it was weak in our flesh. It showed our weakness. He ALONE kept it and by so doing he rendered the law of no effect any longer.

so Judaism and Christianity aren't 'water and oil' as okcornel put in but maybe it could be sieved flour. all the 'impurities are removed '

Gggg102:
1. 'maybe you should read your bible' was for okcornel.

2. This isn't even what I was talking about.

okcornel said Judaism and Christianity are 'oil and water'. so what YHWH did in old testament is irrelevant to Christianity.
he said Jesus brought new laws to differentiate Christianity from Judaism.

then I showed him those new laws are actually part of mosaic laws.

that post was what you quoted first on this page.

I don't know how what you just posted is related to the above.

I was only showing okcornel that Jesus' teaching was repetition of mosaic law which he claimed 'could not mix with Christianity '

It wasn't a mixture though but a whole different thing that Jesus came to show. He may have said the same words but he changed their foundations.

This is why the bible says in Psalm 11:3

3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

He gave it a whole different root/source. So OkCornel was right. Judaism and Christianity do not mix as it were due to the change in foundations.

"And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore."
1 Kings:4:29

"For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father."
1 Kings:11:4

There's something very wrong with this, read the books of proverbs, Ecclesiastes do you think that the man who wrote those books could have easily become stupid at his old age.. Now old people are supposed to have more experience and wisdom than youths..'Solomon was wise when he was young and he became stupid when he was old' isn't something wrong with that

One explanation; Solomon with his wisdom knew that Yahweh was an evil god and he stopped worshipping him

butterflyl1on:
Two words

1) Covenant

2) Bloodshed.

Only Bible scholars would understand what I just typed

luckily I'm not a Bible scholar explain it to me simply

LordVoldermort:
"And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding exceeding much, and largeness of heart, even as the sand that is on the sea shore."
1 Kings:4:29

"For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father."
1 Kings:11:4

There's something very wrong with this, read the books of proverbs, Ecclesiastes do you think that the man who wrote those books could have easily become stupid at his old age.. Now old people are supposed to have more experience and wisdom than youths..'Solomon was wise when he was young and he became stupid when he was old' isn't something wrong with that

One explanation; Solomon with his wisdom knew that Yahweh was an evil god and he stopped worshipping him

Scripture says right there in black and white the HIS WIVES TURNED HIS HEART AWAY FROM GOD and this guy despite seeing this still drew his own conclusion out of thin air

LordVoldermort:
luckily I'm not a Bible scholar explain it to me simply

I humbly decline because even the simplest things are difficult for you to understand going by the way you interpret the scriptures you post. Wasting my energy on an unfruitful venture is foolishness to me.

butterflyl1on:
It wasn't a mixture though but a whole different thing that Jesus came to show. He may have said the same words but he changed their foundations.

This is why the bible says in Psalm 11:3



He gave it a whole different root/source. So OkCornel was right. Judaism and Christianity do not mix as it were due to the change in foundations.

really

so Christians don't acknowledge the old testament?

you don't acknowledge the ten commandments.

you don't acknowledge the conquest of the Israelites and the lives of the major characters?

you don't acknowledge Elijah and Moses and Joshua and David?
you don't teach from old testament?

everything that happened in old testament does not affect the Christian nor does it have any bearing on them?

Christians are fully excused from everything in the old testament?

Gggg102:
really

so Christians don't acknowledge the old testament?

you don't acknowledge the ten commandments.

you don't acknowledge the conquest of the Israelites and the lives of the major characters?

you don't acknowledge Elijah and Moses and Joshua and David?
you don't teach from old testament?

everything that happened in old testament does not affect the Christian nor does it have any bearing on them?

Christians are fully excused from everything in the old testament?

Gosh *another facepalm moment*

You obviously do not understand anything I am saying. I already knew you wouldn't. Smh

butterflyl1on:
Gosh *another facepalm moment*

You obviously do not understand anything I am saying. I already knew you wouldn't. Smh

this was the point I was making to Okcornel before we started going back and forth.
then you joined in and changed the subject.

just scroll backwards and see for yourself.


no need for a facepalm
can you answer those questions?


p.s check your mention. I asked how to one of your post.
can you reply?

butterflyl1on:
Scripture says right there in black and white the HIS WIVES TURNED HIS HEART AWAY FROM GOD and this guy despite seeing this still drew his own conclusion out of thin air

Obviously you never read Proverbs

The theory that the Bible might have been compiled and modified with time albeit strange but is completely scriptural

"Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, "
1 Chronicles:29:29

Two books missing

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. "
Joshua:10:13

"Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.) "
2 Samuel:1:18

Book of Jasher

"Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,"
Numbers:21:14

Wars of the lord

"His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sins, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up groves and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers. "
2 Chronicles:33:19

Saying of the seers

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, "
Jude:1:14

Book of Enoch...this prophecy isn't found in the Old testament

You can get the more lists here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible

Should a book with so many missing parts be considered infallible?

Gggg102:
ye have also heard love your friends and hate those who hate you but I say to you, obey the mosaic law by loving your enemies.



yeah have also heard that in order to be saved, you have to follow mosaic laws of obeying ten commandments, loving God and loving your neighbors.


Jesus said 'obey mosaic law to be saved'.

Read up Acts 15 ... you'll see the distinction between Judaism and Christianity... it's as clear as day and night...

LordVoldermort:
The theory that the Bible might have been compiled and modified with time albeit strange but is completely scriptural

"Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer, "
1 Chronicles:29:29

Two books missing

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. "
Joshua:10:13

"Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.) "
2 Samuel:1:18

Book of Jasher

"Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,"
Numbers:21:14

Wars of the lord

"His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sins, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up groves and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers. "
2 Chronicles:33:19

Saying of the seers

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, "
Jude:1:14

Book of Enoch...this prophecy isn't found in the Old testament

You can get the more lists here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible

Should a book with so many missing parts be considered infallible?

Can all the truth in the world be documented in one single book? Yes or No...

The Bible does not have all the acts of Jesus recorded in it...but does it make the Bible irrelevant or useless?

The problem here is when people think the Truth must exist in a written form before it becomes valid... without considering the fact that the truth once existed in an unwritten form before it was written...

Truth in its purest form remains unwritten...

OkCornel:
Read up Acts 15 ... you'll see the distinction between Judaism and Christianity... it's as clear as day and night...

seems like you are ignoring the Bible chapters I posted.

OkCornel:
Read up Acts 15 ... you'll see the distinction between Judaism and Christianity... it's as clear as day and night...

Gggg102:
really

so Christians don't acknowledge the old testament?

you don't acknowledge the ten commandments.

you don't acknowledge the conquest of the Israelites and the lives of the major characters?

you don't acknowledge Elijah and Moses and Joshua and David?
you don't teach from old testament?

everything that happened in old testament does not affect the Christian nor does it have any bearing on them?

Christians are fully excused from everything in the old testament?

OkCornel:
Read up Acts 15 ... you'll see the distinction between Judaism and Christianity... it's as clear as day and night...

you want to tell me Christians don't acknowledge Judaism in the old testament?

Christians do not acknowledge the deeds of YHWH in the old testament?

Gggg102:
seems like you are ignoring the Bible chapters I posted.

I'm not...the answers to your the chapters you posted is in Acts 15...

You are saying one needs to be saved by obeying Mosaic Laws in addition to believing Jesus...this controversy brought a crisis to the early church, and how it was resolved was documented in Acts 15...

Your answers are in there...

OkCornel:
I'm not...the answers to your the chapters you posted is in Acts 15...

You are saying one needs to be saved by obeying Mosaic Laws in addition to believing Jesus...this controversy brought a crisis to the early church, and how it was resolved was documented in Acts 15...

Your answers are in there...

you can't still separate Judaism from Christianity fully.

even in acts 15 the advice to stay away from blood is from?

I'm not of the opinion that mosaic laws save.
mine is that mosaic laws were involved in the new covenant.

can you now answer the questions I asked?

how you do not follow the ten commandments any longer
how you don't preach against homosexuality, crossdressing...
how come you still practice tithing
how come you still preach suffer not the witch to live
how you still call on God of Elijah to send down fire
how you praise the deeds of David and Moses and Joshua...
how you still take laws from old testament and preach

and the others I asked in the other posts.

Gggg102:
you can't still separate Judaism from Christianity fully.

even in acts 15 the advice to stay away from blood is from?

I'm not of the opinion that mosaic laws save.
mine is that mosaic laws were involved in the new covenant.

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

Acts 15

1 Then came down certain from Judea, and taught the brethren, saying, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 And when there was great dissension, and disputation by Paul and Barnabas against them, they ordained that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders about this question.

3 Thus being brought forth by the Church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles, and they brought great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the Church, and of the Apostles and Elders, and they declared what things God had done by them.

5 But said they, certain of the sect of the Pharisees, which did believe, rose up, saying that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Law of Moses.

6 Then the Apostles and Elders came together to look to this matter.

7 And when there had been great disputation, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Ye men and brethren, ye know that a good while ago, among us God chose out me, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Gospel, and believe.

8 And God which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, in giving unto them the holy Ghost even as he did unto us.

9 And he put no difference between us and them, after that by faith he had purified their hearts.

10 Now therefore, why tempt ye God, to lay a yoke on the disciples’ necks, which neither our fathers, nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, even as they do.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and heard Barnabas and Paul, which told what signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.

13 And when they held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me.

14 Simeon hath declared, how God first did visit the Gentiles, to take of them a people unto his Name.

15 And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the Tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and the ruins thereof will I build again, and I will set it up.

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom my Name is called, saith the Lord which doeth all these things.

18 From the beginning of the world, God knoweth all his works.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them of the Gentiles that are turned to God,

20 But that we send unto them, that they abstain themselves from filthiness of idols, and fornication, and that is strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, seeing he is read in the Synagogues every Sabbath day.

22 Then it seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: to wit, Judas whose surname was Barsabas, and Silas, which were chief men among the brethren,

23 And wrote letters by them after this manner, THE APOSTLES, and the Elders, and the brethren, Unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch, and in Syria, and in Cilicia, send greeting.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us, have troubled you with words, and cumbered your minds, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the Law: to whom we gave no such commandment,

25 It seemed therefore good to us, when we were come together with one accord, to [send] chosen men unto you, with our beloved Barnabas and Paul.

26 Men that have [v]given up their lives for the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, which shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the holy Ghost, and to us, to lay no more burden upon you, than these necessary things.

29 That is, that ye abstain from things offered to idols, and blood, and that that is strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 Now when they were departed, they came to Antioch, and after that they had assembled the multitude, they delivered the Epistle,

31 And when they had read it, they rejoiced for the consolation.

LordVoldermort:
Obviously you never read Proverbs

Where in proverbs

Gggg102:
you can't still separate Judaism from Christianity fully.

even in acts 15 the advice to stay away from blood is from?

I'm not of the opinion that mosaic laws save.
mine is that mosaic laws were involved in the new covenant.

Are these Mosaic Laws in the new covenant?

Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12;
11"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.…

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

OkCornel:
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

Acts 15

1 Then came down certain from Judea, and taught the brethren, saying, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 And when there was great dissension, and disputation by Paul and Barnabas against them, they ordained that Paul and Barnabas, and certain others of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders about this question.

3 Thus being brought forth by the Church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles, and they brought great joy unto all the brethren.

4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the Church, and of the Apostles and Elders, and they declared what things God had done by them.

5 But said they, certain of the sect of the Pharisees, which did believe, rose up, saying that it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the Law of Moses.

6 Then the Apostles and Elders came together to look to this matter.

7 And when there had been great disputation, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Ye men and brethren, ye know that a good while ago, among us God chose out me, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Gospel, and believe.

8 And God which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, in giving unto them the holy Ghost even as he did unto us.

9 And he put no difference between us and them, after that by faith he had purified their hearts.

10 Now therefore, why tempt ye God, to lay a yoke on the disciples’ necks, which neither our fathers, nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, even as they do.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and heard Barnabas and Paul, which told what signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.

13 And when they held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me.

14 Simeon hath declared, how God first did visit the Gentiles, to take of them a people unto his Name.

15 And to this agree the words of the Prophets, as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the Tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and the ruins thereof will I build again, and I will set it up.

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom my Name is called, saith the Lord which doeth all these things.

18 From the beginning of the world, God knoweth all his works.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them of the Gentiles that are turned to God,

20 But that we send unto them, that they abstain themselves from filthiness of idols, and fornication, and that is strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, seeing he is read in the Synagogues every Sabbath day.

22 Then it seemed good to the Apostles and Elders with the whole Church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: to wit, Judas whose surname was Barsabas, and Silas, which were chief men among the brethren,

23 And wrote letters by them after this manner, THE APOSTLES, and the Elders, and the brethren, Unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch, and in Syria, and in Cilicia, send greeting.

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us, have troubled you with words, and cumbered your minds, saying, Ye must be circumcised and keep the Law: to whom we gave no such commandment,

25 It seemed therefore good to us, when we were come together with one accord, to [send] chosen men unto you, with our beloved Barnabas and Paul.

26 Men that have [v]given up their lives for the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, which shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the holy Ghost, and to us, to lay no more burden upon you, than these necessary things.

29 That is, that ye abstain from things offered to idols, and blood, and that that is strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

30 Now when they were departed, they came to Antioch, and after that they had assembled the multitude, they delivered the Epistle,

31 And when they had read it, they rejoiced for the consolation.

so how come christianity still preach from the law of Moses.
even the apostles still gave laws of Moses to the gentiles
'stay away from blood'...

Christians pick part of the law of Moses to follow and ignore the rest. both the ones you pick and ignore are laws of Moses.

it seems Christianity is Grace + half of law of Moses.

OkCornel:
Are these Mosaic Laws in the new covenant?

Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12;
11"You shall not wear a material mixed of wool and linen together.
12"You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.…

Leviticus 19:19
'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together.

what about homosexuality

what about tithing

what about cross dressing

what about contact with blood

what about bestiality

the other ones are still yet to be answered

Gggg102:
so how come christianity still preach from the law of Moses.
even the apostles still gave laws of Moses to the gentiles
'stay away from blood'...

Christians pick part of the law of Moses to follow and ignore the rest. both the ones you pick and ignore are laws of Moses.

it seems Christianity is Grace + half of law of Moses.

It's just the same way Islam cannot exist without Christianity and Judaism in the picture...


The heartbeat of Christianity is the works and teachings of Jesus...

Bear in mind that when Jesus was alive...He never preached against the Mosaic Laws because he had not fulfilled them... but after He said "it is finished"....and temple veil tore open, it was a different ball game altogether...

[quote author=OkCornel post=65542500][/quote]so everything God did in old testament is inconsequential to Christians.
Christians don't need old testament.

[quote author=OkCornel post=65542500][/quote]so everything God did in old testament is inconsequential to Christians.

Christians don't need old testament.
it can be discarded.




ALL the laws of old testament don't apply to Christians?

Gggg102:
so everything God did in old testament is inconsequential to Christians.

Christians don't need old testament.

Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant...so His followers are not obliged to burden themselves with it to prove any self-righteousness...


Love for God and Man...and the works of Jesus is the central point of focus... and not the blood of bulls and rams or the need to tithe for God to bless you...

OkCornel:
It's just the same way Islam cannot exist without Christianity and Judaism in the picture...


The heartbeat of Christianity is the works and teachings of Jesus...

Bear in mind that when Jesus was alive...He never preached against the Mosaic Laws because he had not fulfilled them... but after He said "it is finished"....and temple veil tore open, it was a different ball game altogether...

ALL the laws in old testament don't apply to Christians?

Gggg102:
what about homosexuality

what about tithing

what about cross dressing

what about contact with blood

what about bestiality

the other ones are still yet to be answered

And you need the Mosaic Laws to tell you these ones are wrong too?

OkCornel:
Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant...so His followers are not obliged to burden themselves with it to prove any self-righteousness...


Love for God and Man...and the works of Jesus is the central point of focus... and not the blood of bulls and rams or the need to tithe for God to bless you...

even that love for God and man is from the old testament which should be discarded.

love for God and man is part of the law.
you are to discard the law right?

Gggg102:
even that love for God and man is from the old testament which should be discarded.

love for God and man is part of the law.
you are to discard the law right?

Read again... the Law tells you what to do to prove your self-righteousness before God i.e. animal sacrifice, burnt offerings, circumcision of the 3rd leg...abstaining from certain types of food...

Do you see all of that in the new testament?

Gggg102:
even that love for God and man is from the old testament which should be discarded.

love for God and man is part of the law.
you are to discard the law right?

You seem unable to follow what you are being told. All you want to hear is that the law should be discarded but that is not what myself or OkCornel are trying to tell you.

I have told you that the law was weak and offered death and not life. Jesus offered life by Fulfilling the law which man could not fulfil.

The law cannot make man love God. Laws bring sin. I repeat, laws bring sin. Where there is no law there is no sin. The fulfilment of the law in Christ removed the power of sin in the law for as many as are in Christ Jesus.

The law will remain for those who still wish to follow it as a sign that they cannot be saved based on the Law just like the man who came to Jesus and still wanted salvation despite claiming to keep ALL the laws.

The law is a pointer to the reality who is Jesus. The law is a shadow but Jesus is the reality.

OkCornel:
And you need the Mosaic Laws to tell you these ones are wrong too?

was it not mosaic law that condemned the wearing of two different garments, breeding two kinds of cattle, putting tassels on your clothes, mix cropping.


how come Christians don't condemn these ones claiming they are part of the law but still condemn homosexuality, cross dressing, contact with blood, bestiality...
which is also part of the law.